Doncaster Rovers (A) League One, 21st Oct, 3pm

[Welsh_Saddler]

"Bonnie White Rose"

(Cunningham)



With almost a third of the season's fixtures completed we find ourselves in the novel position of playing a side below us in the League One table, in the form of Darren Ferguson's Doncaster Rovers. Don't be deceived though - their start to the season was pretty dire, not winning at home in the League in August or September - but they seem to have overcome that barrier of late, just in time to play us. Their second captain (they have three) will be familiar to Saddlers' fans - Andy Butler, of course, with that priceless ability to organise his team's defence on the field of play, coupled with the knack of occasionally scoring at the other end (Custard Factory, anyone?). There are other connections between the two clubs, going all the way back to 1901 when Rovers were first elected to the Football League .... that was the season when we failed to gain re-election, so they took our place in the 2nd tier (there were only two then as Pedagogue will remember - I think that was his earliest season ticket). As recently as the 2011/12 season they sacked their Manager, an action which we replicated later, the gentleman in question being Sean O'Driscoll. Doncaster Rovers' recent League One form:

23 Sep Plymouth Argyle (A) Won 0-3
26 Sep Shrewsbury Town (H) Lost 1-2
30 Sep Bradford City (A) Lost 2-0
7 Oct Southend United (H) Won 4-1
14 Oct Charlton Athletic (A) Lost 1-0
17 Oct Portsmouth (H) Won 2-1

I hadn't realised what a colourful history Doncaster Rovers had .... in the 1990's, when Jeff Bonser bought Walsall, a similar situation occurred in Doncaster when Ken Richardson took over as majority shareholder in Doncaster, still playing at Belle Vue at that time. When his plans for a new stadium were rejected by the local council he hired three men to torch Belle Vue for the insurance money, earning him a four-year spell behind bars.

They have another minor claim to fame in being involved in the longest-timed football match in history, in 1946. A Division III (North) cup-tie against Stockport County was 2-2 after 90 minutes, and no more goals were scored in the two periods of extra time. The rules of that particular competition stipulated that the game would only be over when a decisive goal was scored, but after 203 minutes with darkness closing in, the game was finally stopped!

OK, enough of our opposition - suggestions on a postcard as to what Jon Whitney's tactics for this one might be would, as always, be very welcome. Will he take the plunge and rest Amadou Bakayoko, allowing Roberts and Agyei to be a 2-up-front strikeforce? Will Florent Cuvelier be able to play more than his regulation 20 minutes? Will Kieron Morris be given free rein on the wing, or spend the match aimlessly wandering about the centre of the pitch? Will Erhun Oztumer be recalled? Will we concede yet another penalty? Most importantly, will we register our first clean sheet????? (Getting ambitious there.....)

In all honesty I can't see us winning this one. We are joint holders of the crown for the most drawn games (along with Rochdale) - exactly half our fixtures have ended all-square (7 out of 14), and I think an away point at the Keepmoat will be adequate reward, say 1-1 with a Guthrie thunderbolt!!

UTS :D

[Welsh_Saddler]

A personal connection with Doncaster Rovers has just occurred to me ..... many, many years ago I saw us capitulate at Belle Vue, losing 4-0 - and trust me, we were very lucky to score nil. As the players trooped off at 90 minutes, a Walsall supporter near me shouted the memorable phrase "You're a disgrace to yer colours".

A few minutes later I'm walking away from the ground, with a crowd of fellow Saddlers, and I see a crowd of Doncaster Rovers supporters coming towards us. In those days violence at football matches was never far below the surface, and I started looking at potential avenues of escape if things got physical. When the two groups of supporters were only a few yards away, one of the Walsall lads shouted to them "And let that be a lesson to yer" (bear in mind we had just been thumped 4-0) ........ ice thoroughly broken, laughter all round, and our next game became the topic of conversation.

Happy days.......UTS :D

[SoccerHQ]

Isn't the Walsall record at the Keepmoat amazing or have I imagined that? Every game in recent times there seems to have been 2-1 to Walsall.

Got a weird feeling this will end 0-0. Surely can't go a full season without keeping a clean sheet?!

[sirrammell]

I'll be there and bringing a couple of friends. I also cant see past yet another 1-1 draw.

[Gripper]

Surely can't go a full season without keeping a clean sheet?!

Was thinking about this earlier - has that ever happened?

Also - I was also thinking about how solid everyone was saying our defence looked at the start of the season.

[Mazza01]

negative draw 1-1 , with Baka missing 4 one on ones in the last ten minutes.

[scott_powell]

I don't care what anyone says this game is a must win.

[Walsallone]

As an optimist I think we will win 1-0!!!!

[SaigonSaddler]

I don't care what anyone says this game is a must win.

I'm minded to agree, if only for morale for everyone at the club. Donny are unpredictable, so another 1-1 is distinctly possible. Not normally a bad result, but the entire club is in need of a boost.

[El_Nombre]

I don't care what anyone says, a draw is fine away from home. Must not lose.

[scott_powell]

I don't care what anyone says this game is a must win.

I'm minded to agree, if only for morale for everyone at the club. Donny are unpredictable, so another 1-1 is distinctly possible. Not normally a bad result, but the entire club is in need of a boost.

Agreed. It's a must win for more reasons than just points.

[scott_powell]

I don't care what anyone says, a draw is fine away from home. Must not lose.

A win to boost confidence as well as gain the 3 points is needed badly. You have to win games like these to stand any chance of pulling away from the relegation zone and into mid table mediocrity. Beating teams around us is vital right now.

[El_Nombre]

I don't care what anyone says, a draw is fine away from home. Must not lose.

A win to boost confidence as well as gain the 3 points is needed badly. You have to win games like these to stand any chance of pulling away from the relegation zone and into mid table mediocrity. Beating teams around us is vital right now.

In your opinion. It depends if your glass is half full or half empty regarding confidence. Fan confidence is pretty down but we have no idea about what really matters, player confidence. Draw your away games, win your home games, you normally go up. Obviously we haven't done that so far and won't do for the rest of the entire season but doing that more often than not will pull us away from where we are now.

I'm not saying I think we will draw. I think Donny win and Whitney loses his job. But if you offered me nil nil right now I'd take it. No question.

[scott_powell]

I don't care what anyone says, a draw is fine away from home. Must not lose.

A win to boost confidence as well as gain the 3 points is needed badly. You have to win games like these to stand any chance of pulling away from the relegation zone and into mid table mediocrity. Beating teams around us is vital right now.

In your opinion. It depends if your glass is half full or half empty regarding confidence. Fan confidence is pretty down but we have no idea about what really matters, player confidence. Draw your away games, win your home games, you normally go up. Obviously we haven't done that so far and won't do for the rest of the entire season but doing that more often than not will pull us away from where we are now.

I'm not saying I think we will draw. I think Donny win and Whitney loses his job. But if you offered me nil nil right now I'd take it. No question.

I'm accepting nothing more than a win. We need results and fast.

[El_Nombre]

I don't care what anyone says, a draw is fine away from home. Must not lose.

A win to boost confidence as well as gain the 3 points is needed badly. You have to win games like these to stand any chance of pulling away from the relegation zone and into mid table mediocrity. Beating teams around us is vital right now.

In your opinion. It depends if your glass is half full or half empty regarding confidence. Fan confidence is pretty down but we have no idea about what really matters, player confidence. Draw your away games, win your home games, you normally go up. Obviously we haven't done that so far and won't do for the rest of the entire season but doing that more often than not will pull us away from where we are now.

I'm not saying I think we will draw. I think Donny win and Whitney loses his job. But if you offered me nil nil right now I'd take it. No question.

I'm accepting nothing more than a win. We need results and fast.

Good for you. I'd take a draw for the reasons I have given.

[scott_powell]

I don't care what anyone says, a draw is fine away from home. Must not lose.

A win to boost confidence as well as gain the 3 points is needed badly. You have to win games like these to stand any chance of pulling away from the relegation zone and into mid table mediocrity. Beating teams around us is vital right now.

In your opinion. It depends if your glass is half full or half empty regarding confidence. Fan confidence is pretty down but we have no idea about what really matters, player confidence. Draw your away games, win your home games, you normally go up. Obviously we haven't done that so far and won't do for the rest of the entire season but doing that more often than not will pull us away from where we are now.

I'm not saying I think we will draw. I think Donny win and Whitney loses his job. But if you offered me nil nil right now I'd take it. No question.

I'm accepting nothing more than a win. We need results and fast.

Good for you. I'd take a draw for the reasons I have given.

Good for you

[Mazza01]

its almost a no win for Whitney at the moment.

Lose - He must go
Draw - He must go
Win - Keeps him employed until next Saturday.

[tinned]

I don't care what anyone says, a draw is fine away from home. Must not lose.

A win to boost confidence as well as gain the 3 points is needed badly. You have to win games like these to stand any chance of pulling away from the relegation zone and into mid table mediocrity. Beating teams around us is vital right now.

In your opinion. It depends if your glass is half full or half empty regarding confidence. Fan confidence is pretty down but we have no idea about what really matters, player confidence. Draw your away games, win your home games, you normally go up. Obviously we haven't done that so far and won't do for the rest of the entire season but doing that more often than not will pull us away from where we are now.

I'm not saying I think we will draw. I think Donny win and Whitney loses his job. But if you offered me nil nil right now I'd take it. No question.

I'm accepting nothing more than a win. We need results and fast.

Good for you. I'd take a draw for the reasons I have given.

The big flaw in your argument is we're not winning many home games.


Must win game.

[scott_powell]

Exactly Tinned.

At home ...
Draws - 5
Wins - 2
Losses - 0

On that basis we will average 35.2 points from home games.

Away ...
Draws - 2
Wins - 1
Losses - 4

On that basis we will average 16.4 points on the road.

That's approximately 51.6 points.

That would have got you around 18th/19th last season, 19th/20th the season before that and 20th the season before that.

Tomorrow is a must win to stop this god awful rot. Draws simply aren't enough in this position even given our home form. We need to gain points now, especially against teams in and around us.

[tinned]

To be honest I'd rather us win 1 and lose 2 out of every 3 games rather than draw all 3.

[reedswood sadler]

As whenever we play a team above us we should not expect to win and a draw is seen as an excellent point it must mean when we play a team below us we should expect not to lose and a point is bad.

I will be there first time at Keepmoat and predict 2-1 win so we can keep our defensive record going.

Get behind the lads and let's do it.

[El_Nombre]

A win to boost confidence as well as gain the 3 points is needed badly. You have to win games like these to stand any chance of pulling away from the relegation zone and into mid table mediocrity. Beating teams around us is vital right now.

In your opinion. It depends if your glass is half full or half empty regarding confidence. Fan confidence is pretty down but we have no idea about what really matters, player confidence. Draw your away games, win your home games, you normally go up. Obviously we haven't done that so far and won't do for the rest of the entire season but doing that more often than not will pull us away from where we are now.

I'm not saying I think we will draw. I think Donny win and Whitney loses his job. But if you offered me nil nil right now I'd take it. No question.

I'm accepting nothing more than a win. We need results and fast.

Good for you. I'd take a draw for the reasons I have given.

The big flaw in your argument is we're not winning many home games.


Must win game.

Except I pointed that out earlier on in the thread?

"Draw your away games, win your home games, you normally go up. Obviously we haven't done that so far and won't do for the rest of the entire season but doing that more often than not will pull us away from where we are now."

Now if you are asking me to defend our results so far this season it's not something I can do because they haven't been good enough. That doesn't mean all of a sudden every game becomes a must win.

[El_Nombre]

Exactly Tinned.

At home ...
Draws - 5
Wins - 2
Losses - 0

On that basis we will average 35.2 points from home games.

Away ...
Draws - 2
Wins - 1
Losses - 4

On that basis we will average 16.4 points on the road.

That's approximately 51.6 points.

That would have got you around 18th/19th last season, 19th/20th the season before that and 20th the season before that.

Tomorrow is a must win to stop this god awful rot. Draws simply aren't enough in this position even given our home form. We need to gain points now, especially against teams in and around us.

Who's talking about the results we have had? I never said they have been good...

Anybody can come up with hypothetical points going forward. If we draw all of our away games and win all of our home (which is the type of form I said we should be aiming for not a continuation of what has already happened) that's 60 odd points added to the 16 and more than enough to see us top half. Obviously it won't be as black and white as that but it sure does make me feel like this game isn't "must win".

[scott_powell]

Exactly Tinned.

At home ...
Draws - 5
Wins - 2
Losses - 0

On that basis we will average 35.2 points from home games.

Away ...
Draws - 2
Wins - 1
Losses - 4

On that basis we will average 16.4 points on the road.

That's approximately 51.6 points.

That would have got you around 18th/19th last season, 19th/20th the season before that and 20th the season before that.

Tomorrow is a must win to stop this god awful rot. Draws simply aren't enough in this position even given our home form. We need to gain points now, especially against teams in and around us.

Who's talking about the results we have had? I never said they have been good...

Anybody can come up with hypothetical points going forward. If we draw all of our away games and win all of our home (which is the type of form I said we should be aiming for not a continuation of what has already happened) that's 60 odd points added to the 16 and more than enough to see us top half. Obviously it won't be as black and white as that but it sure does make me feel like this game isn't "must win".

We can only judge by what we've seen so far this season and that's what I've done here using facts. Also it's worth mentioning performances are gradually getting worse so i'd imagine my hypothetical points tally may actually be a fair representation of what may happen; certainly more accurate than expecting a decent team managed by a clown to win all their homes and draw their aways. I know you're not saying that's what we'll do but to break the averages we really must be winning tomorrow, especially against a team in a similar position. Aiming for draws is the exact reason why we're in this mess. Every game is about winning from now on, home or away.

[El_Nombre]

Exactly Tinned.

At home ...
Draws - 5
Wins - 2
Losses - 0

On that basis we will average 35.2 points from home games.

Away ...
Draws - 2
Wins - 1
Losses - 4

On that basis we will average 16.4 points on the road.

That's approximately 51.6 points.

That would have got you around 18th/19th last season, 19th/20th the season before that and 20th the season before that.

Tomorrow is a must win to stop this god awful rot. Draws simply aren't enough in this position even given our home form. We need to gain points now, especially against teams in and around us.

Who's talking about the results we have had? I never said they have been good...

Anybody can come up with hypothetical points going forward. If we draw all of our away games and win all of our home (which is the type of form I said we should be aiming for not a continuation of what has already happened) that's 60 odd points added to the 16 and more than enough to see us top half. Obviously it won't be as black and white as that but it sure does make me feel like this game isn't "must win".

We can only judge by what we've seen so far this season and that's what I've done here using facts. Also it's worth mentioning performances are gradually getting worse so i'd imagine my hypothetical points tally may actually be a fair representation of what may happen; certainly more accurate than expecting a decent team managed by a clown to win all their homes and draw their aways. I know you're not saying that's what we'll do but to break the averages we really must be winning tomorrow, especially against a team in a similar position. Aiming for draws is the exact reason why we're in this mess. Every game is about winning from now on, home or away.

Yes we can only judge what has already happened and that clearly hasn't been good enough. But deciding what is acceptable going forward is a different matter.

And hey I don't think that will happen either, the average points even. I'm talking about what's acceptable not predicting what I think will happen. But the current form is definitely not acceptable, as you've illustrated. But what I'm proposing is far more realistic than every game being about winning from now on. There are still 96 points to play for in the league, I just don't see it as win or bust.

[scott_powell]

Yes I don think it's acceptable either so I expect us to at least try and win the game. If we draw, okay fine, I'm not happy with it but it's not the end of the world. Anything less is unforgivable right now though. He will have to go.

[El_Nombre]

Yes I don think it's acceptable either so I expect us to at least try and win the game. If we draw, okay fine, I'm not happy with it but it's not the end of the world. Anything less is unforgivable right now though. He will have to go.

Well at least we agree on that. A loss and I don't see how he keeps his job. I said that before Shrewsbury and got battered...

[scott_powell]

Yes I don think it's acceptable either so I expect us to at least try and win the game. If we draw, okay fine, I'm not happy with it but it's not the end of the world. Anything less is unforgivable right now though. He will have to go.

Well at least we agree on that. A loss and I don't see how he keeps his job. I said that before Shrewsbury and got battered...

We actually had a fairly adult conversation without insults!

To the next one :lol:

[Micky Saddler]

Yes I don think it's acceptable either so I expect us to at least try and win the game. If we draw, okay fine, I'm not happy with it but it's not the end of the world. Anything less is unforgivable right now though. He will have to go.

Now thats hows it should be....

Optimism from the start. Fingers crossed he can get that all important away win and build on it with a couple of decent performances, even though I try to be rational sometimes, theres no disputing the standard of football has been poor.

I agree with the others above, most definitely a must win for this one.

3-1 Saddlers. :D

[El_Nombre]

Yes I don think it's acceptable either so I expect us to at least try and win the game. If we draw, okay fine, I'm not happy with it but it's not the end of the world. Anything less is unforgivable right now though. He will have to go.

Well at least we agree on that. A loss and I don't see how he keeps his job. I said that before Shrewsbury and got battered...

We actually had a fairly adult conversation without insults!

To the next one :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: