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Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Reports and reaction from the 2017-2018 season as Walsall finished 19th in League 1
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chunkster
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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:07 pm

Optimistic wrote:I thought that Smith had the right idea and needed more time when many called for his head and I was right.

I think that Whitney is dedicated, positive, trying his best and will get better and the best option is to give him more time. I do not like hoof ball and hopefully the team will start to get the ball down and play as confidence grows. I could not fault him pre-season for the squad he put together with big centre backs and for holding his nerve until the last minute to get Roberts even though many fans moaned for not bringing in a striker. I thought we had a quality squad then so why would I change my mind just a few games in with a brand new back line and a run of top 6 games.

So why are Shrewsbury doing so well, I believe that high levels of confidence in this game turns a draw into a win and a loss into a draw. Will they storm the league, I don't know until they lose a couple of games and we will see if I am right. Giving Whitney flack at the moment is counter productive in my opinion, he needs everyone behind him and the team. I have seen this fan problem so many times in the past its getting boring now.

This is my opinion which I believe that I am entitled to in a football forum. I may be right or I may be wrong and at some stage I might change my opinion but just because I have been consistent and not changed it yet, because I think it is too early after the run of games we have had, does not mean I am puddled. In fact I am an intelligent person and as such I am fully aware that I will get flack and be called silly names by some people just because I think different to them.

I am bigger than that so I may not respond to such posts. No offence intended, I just can't be bothered. I know I may be wrong but time will tell.
I for one like reading your posts, it gives a balanced view from the other side of the whitney out posts, i am somewhere in the middle but more to the whitney out campaigners, but i would never deride you for your beliefs :wink:

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:58 am

Optimistic wrote:I do not like hoof ball and hopefully the team will start to get the ball down and play as confidence grows.

Hopefully? Hopefully?
There's no hopefully about it sunshine.
He should have been instructed from day one that "we play in this style, any deviation and you're out".
Imagine you run a business and employ someone to manage it.
Do you just let them do what they want?
No, you set ground rules and get rid if they don't/aren't-capable-of following the ground rules.

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scott_powell
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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:22 am

Whitters wrote:
Optimistic wrote:I do not like hoof ball and hopefully the team will start to get the ball down and play as confidence grows.

Hopefully? Hopefully?
There's no hopefully about it sunshine.
He should have been instructed from day one that "we play in this style, any deviation and you're out".
Imagine you run a business and employ someone to manage it.
Do you just let them do what they want?
No, you set ground rules and get rid if they don't/aren't-capable-of following the ground rules.


Optimistic works on blind faith Whitters. BELIEVE and things will come good apparently. That sort of attitude doesn't get anybody anywhere. Bet Optimistic doesn't go to the doctors, he just prays and hopes for the best.

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:09 am

Whitters wrote:Look, I'm not a Witney-in person by any means but what's all this "sarcastic wave" stuff?
Would you prefer no wave or a few claps or a wave or what?

I think 2 short waves,4 long waves,3 claps and a nod (if you win), a wink (if you draw),and a quick wave as you run for the tunnel if you lose is the internationally recognised protocol.There are variations but it would take too long.... :D

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:43 am

I'm starting to feel guilty for thinking a draw away at MKD was a pretty good result. :shock:

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:18 am

Paulus68 wrote:I'm starting to feel guilty for thinking a draw away at MKD was a pretty good result. :shock:


It wasn't....................... they are going through a particularly crud period currently, we are crud permanently.

We ARE slipping downwards, regular draws and regular defeats will only end in the inevitable. WE cannot ask to play Plymouth etc at home every week, the home defeats will happen.

I could not care less that we don't win on a semi regular basis, (I've been on the terraces at Walsall games for 55+ years so I don't expect miracles) I just want to see an occasional win!

The problem for our brave Board is, that if this crud and the general spiral downwards continues, the gates will diminish even further, look back at a few posts on UTS in general and note all those who have said they are not going to renew their season tickets! :(

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:30 am

A good post OPTIMISTIC with which I concur except that in the current atmosphere where JW is criticised for everything from his use of pronouns to the way he waves anything could happen. It is clear that all this criticism is having an affect on the players as we have seen from Wilson's comments in the paper. Players do better when the support is behind them and when you have half of the 200 who went to MK calling for the Manager to get the sack during the game it cannot help morale. I think that the next 3 games are vital and if we fail to get a good return I can see the Board taking some action.

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:43 am

Walsallone wrote:A good post OPTIMISTIC with which I concur except that in the current atmosphere where JW is criticised for everything from his use of pronouns to the way he waves anything could happen. It is clear that all this criticism is having an affect on the players as we have seen from Wilson's comments in the paper. Players do better when the support is behind them and when you have half of the 200 who went to MK calling for the Manager to get the sack during the game it cannot help morale. I think that the next 3 games are vital and if we fail to get a good return I can see the Board taking some action.



How about if the players agree with the supporters I know it would be un proffessional for them to join in the chanting but who knows what they think.

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:15 pm

Whitters wrote:
Optimistic wrote:I do not like hoof ball and hopefully the team will start to get the ball down and play as confidence grows.

Hopefully? Hopefully?
There's no hopefully about it sunshine.
He should have been instructed from day one that "we play in this style, any deviation and you're out".
Imagine you run a business and employ someone to manage it.
Do you just let them do what they want?
No, you set ground rules and get rid if they don't/aren't-capable-of following the ground rules.


Wrong Whitters, I don't have to imagine that I run a business because I do run a business and if a manager is employed to manage that's exactly what you pay them to do. Hence the reason that you select the most suitable person out of the available applicants and then give them time to settle in and get results. The problem is that every manager works in a different way and staff or football fans in this instance all think they know best. First they start suggesting how he should do his job and then they start suggesting alternative managers who are not in the salary bracket, do not want the position or are completely unproven in this role. If you set hard and fast ground rules, you need a supervisor not a manager. If you find that the staff are continuously complaining it's sometimes best to just change some of the staff, the main troublemakers actually.

Wrong Scott, I don't work on blind faith I am a very calculated person and I have to make important and considered decisions almost every day. Making assumptions about people with no knowledge about them and no credibility or substance is what doesn't get anybody anywhere as you put it. You can keep attacking me if you like but Whitney is paid to do a job and he is expected to be there at every match however you have a choice, turn up and moan or stay away. You get what you pay for, a game of football. It may be a good game or it may be a bad game but the ticket you buy does not guarantee which.

Thanks Chunkster and Walsallone.
I realise that the board might not stick with Whitney and it will be a shame if they don't give him at least a full season. After Smith I would expect them to be patient with him because the Smithout fans had it completely wrong with Smith and its probably the same ones who want Whitney out.

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:23 pm

Optimistic wrote:
Whitters wrote:
Optimistic wrote:I do not like hoof ball and hopefully the team will start to get the ball down and play as confidence grows.

Hopefully? Hopefully?
There's no hopefully about it sunshine.
He should have been instructed from day one that "we play in this style, any deviation and you're out".
Imagine you run a business and employ someone to manage it.
Do you just let them do what they want?
No, you set ground rules and get rid if they don't/aren't-capable-of following the ground rules.


Wrong Whitters, I don't have to imagine that I run a business because I do run a business and if a manager is employed to manage that's exactly what you pay them to do. Hence the reason that you select the most suitable person out of the available applicants and then give them time to settle in and get results. The problem is that every manager works in a different way and staff or football fans in this instance all think they know best. First they start suggesting how he should do his job and then they start suggesting alternative managers who are not in the salary bracket, do not want the position or are completely unproven in this role. If you set hard and fast ground rules, you need a supervisor not a manager. If you find that the staff are continuously complaining it's sometimes best to just change some of the staff, the main troublemakers actually.

Wrong Scott, I don't work on blind faith I am a very calculated person and I have to make important and considered decisions almost every day. Making assumptions about people with no knowledge about them and no credibility or substance is what doesn't get anybody anywhere as you put it. You can keep attacking me if you like but Whitney is paid to do a job and he is expected to be there at every match however you have a choice, turn up and moan or stay away. You get what you pay for, a game of football. It may be a good game or it may be a bad game but the ticket you buy does not guarantee which.

Thanks Chunkster and Walsallone.
I realise that the board might not stick with Whitney and it will be a shame if they don't give him at least a full season. After Smith I would expect them to be patient with him because the Smithout fans had it completely wrong with Smith and its probably the same ones who want Whitney out.


Don't you worry Optimistic. I will turn up and make your matchday miserable with Whitney Out chants/protests.

You talk tosh.

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:10 pm

Another good post OPTIMISTIC and as someone who has managed in a large organisation I agree with your views on what is required of a manager. The problem is ,as fans, we get emotionally involved with our team and the club so in that sense football is unique. This board is full of comment a lot of which is fuelled by emotion which would not be there in a normal business environment and sometimes it goes beyond what is acceptable . On the other hand it is lively and generally good humoured .....I suppose thats why some of us enjoy the experience.

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:16 pm

Think for a moment 'Optimistic' If you are a Manager/Senior bod you should know that football is a results driven business, people pay hard earned cash to be at least entertained. If we lose during that process, fair enough, however lose too often, and DONT 'entertain' in doing so, the fans will start to stay away, as I have mentioned above, just a small sift through posts on many differing threads and you will come across life long supporters who are throwing in the towel and NOT renewing season tickets. Things have become stagnant, ill-organised, disjointed, truly awful to watch. We have one quality player, who, it would appear, is off in January, and a couple of loanees slightly more capable, who, he relentlessly refuses to play together despite everyone clamouring for this partnership up front. The rest are 4th Division at best struggling to make an impression. We have Whitney's secret love child who HAS to be shoe-horned in to every match, (despite the fact he is just as bad a failure as he was during his last miserable season) indeed our best player was benched during our last match to accommodate this.
WE all know that Bonser's managerial choices have in the past been suspect to say the least, but, we HAVE to try a new approach, otherwise I fear that slow slippage down the table will end inevitably sour. The players don't know what they are doing or even what they are supposed to do.
We have a choice...stick with Whitney, nice bloke (so we are told) lost, and totally out of his depth, unable to turn this tide of dirge, until the eventual inevitability of a relegation battle, or, ask him to leave and try someone, anyone, more capable, in order to turn the tide, before it is too late, and we end up on Saturday afternoons away to Crawley/Cheltenham/Barnet etc. :?

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:45 pm

Ancient Moaner wrote:Think for a moment 'Optimistic' If you are a Manager/Senior bod you should know that football is a results driven business, people pay hard earned cash to be at least entertained. If we lose during that process, fair enough, however lose too often, and DONT 'entertain' in doing so, the fans will start to stay away, as I have mentioned above, just a small sift through posts on many differing threads and you will come across life long supporters who are throwing in the towel and NOT renewing season tickets. Things have become stagnant, ill-organised, disjointed, truly awful to watch. We have one quality player, who, it would appear, is off in January, and a couple of loanees slightly more capable, who, he relentlessly refuses to play together despite everyone clamouring for this partnership up front. The rest are 4th Division at best struggling to make an impression. We have Whitney's secret love child who HAS to be shoe-horned in to every match, (despite the fact he is just as bad a failure as he was during his last miserable season) indeed our best player was benched during our last match to accommodate this.
WE all know that Bonser's managerial choices have in the past been suspect to say the least, but, we HAVE to try a new approach, otherwise I fear that slow slippage down the table will end inevitably sour. The players don't know what they are doing or even what they are supposed to do.
We have a choice...stick with Whitney, nice bloke (so we are told) lost, and totally out of his depth, unable to turn this tide of dirge, until the eventual inevitability of a relegation battle, or, ask him to leave and try someone, anyone, more capable, in order to turn the tide, before it is too late, and we end up on Saturday afternoons away to Crawley/Cheltenham/Barnet etc. :?


I just love you AM (in a best mate sort of way). I just cannot take your posts seriously any more, you should write a novel. The thing is most lower league forums have similar posts from time to time and the new manager you suggest is harder to get than a winning lottery ticket and about the same lucky dip.

Maybe Whitney can turn the tide and if so we will get the entertainment everyone wants. If he can't and he runs out of time he will have to go. It's simple really but I have no intention of changing my opinion just because people call me names and I am not yet convinced that he will fail. If am wrong, I am wrong but as Walsallone says, that's what the forums about, different opinions.

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:58 pm

Agreed, we certainly all have 'em!.
Just wish the football team we all love could be just be a tad more successful once in a while...jeepers I know I can't make it to as many matches as I would like these days, but it just seems yonks since I last saw them win a match!
As Chunkster and many others will attest, I am certainly very verbal at matches....just wish I could see a victory, so that my sore throat afterwards could be justified!! :D :D

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:30 pm

scott_powell wrote:
Whitters wrote:
Optimistic wrote:I do not like hoof ball and hopefully the team will start to get the ball down and play as confidence grows.

Hopefully? Hopefully?
There's no hopefully about it sunshine.
He should have been instructed from day one that "we play in this style, any deviation and you're out".
Imagine you run a business and employ someone to manage it.
Do you just let them do what they want?
No, you set ground rules and get rid if they don't/aren't-capable-of following the ground rules.


Optimistic works on blind faith Whitters. BELIEVE and things will come good apparently. That sort of attitude doesn't get anybody anywhere. Bet Optimistic doesn't go to the doctors, he just prays and hopes for the best.


What is wrong with 'hope'. Football is all about hope.

I 'hope' we win every game. I 'hope' we will get automatic promotion. When that becomes a mathematical impossibility, I 'hope' we can make the play offs. When that becomes a mathematical impossibility, I 'hope' we can spoil other teams chances of getting promotion or 'hope' we can send someone down. If we are in a relegation battle i 'hope' we can avoid going down without a fight. It is 'hope' that makes me look forward to going to matches. It is 'hope' that gives me a lift when I take my seat just before a game. 'Hope' is what makes you cheer when the game kicks off. If you don't have 'hope', what is the point of going to matches? Why indulge in something that you are anticipating will end in a poor outcome for you and will make you sad/angry? That sort of attitude doesn't get anybody anywhere except sad or angry. Perhaps think about saving your ticket money and spend it on something that makes you happy instead. You will feel better for it.

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:42 pm

Of course we all hope those things. You have ignored the difference between hope and expectation.

Under Whitney my expectation is a lot less than my hope.

I agree with Scott. The posts from Optimistic have no basis other than keeping his fingers crossed and hoping for the best. If someone wants to argue against the more pessimistic posters with well thought out reasons why we shouldn't be so despondent about this season then great, it's got to be more substantial than the Optimistic's usual "I'm sure everything will be fine in the end" posts though.

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:27 pm

tinned wrote:Of course we all hope those things. You have ignored the difference between hope and expectation.

Under Whitney my expectation is a lot less than my hope.

I agree with Scott. The posts from Optimistic have no basis other than keeping his fingers crossed and hoping for the best. If someone wants to argue against the more pessimistic posters with well thought out reasons why we shouldn't be so despondent about this season then great, it's got to be more substantial than the Optimistic's usual "I'm sure everything will be fine in the end" posts though.


Wrong Tinned - my opinions have as much credibility as yours. The fact that you clearly acknowledge that I am Optimistic and you are Pessimistic is the difference between us.
I stated:
I think that Whitney is dedicated, positive, trying his best and will get better and the best option is to give him more time.
I also stated: I could not fault him pre-season for the squad he put together with big centre backs and for holding his nerve until the last minute to get Roberts even though many fans moaned for not bringing in a striker.
I also stated: I thought we had a quality squad then so why would I change my mind just a few games in with a brand new back line and a run of top 6 games.

I have other reasons why I expect him to get it right but just the ones above are more than keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best. On the other hand the more pessimistic posters call for his head after a run of tough games and a points total which is debatable but not disastrous. I don't see a very compulsive argument from many pessimistic posters just a few strong comments from people who clearly do not like Whitney.

6 points off the playoffs and 4 points off the drop zone looks so different to optimists and pessimists and I know which are the less stressed. I suppose that I am on sticky ground with the next match being away. Maybe the team are reading this and will bale me out! :)

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:59 pm

:roll:

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Whitters
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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:36 pm

I don't think you run a business Optimistic.
If you are running something, then you maybe run something in the Public Service.
And whichever, any manager you are in charge of has to be set guidelines.
In the Public Service you can't have managers in each town changing the dole-eligibility rules for instance.

If you do run a business, then please set guidelines for your managers before you go down the gurgler.
And sack those that don't follow your guidelines.
Remember, a manager can bugger things up and leave tomorrow without a care in the world - the owner is left cleaning up the mess.
And in our case the fans are left with the mess - any fans remaining that is.

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:57 pm

Whitters wrote:I don't think you run a business Optimistic.
If you are running something, then you maybe run something in the Public Service.
And whichever, any manager you are in charge of has to be set guidelines.
In the Public Service you can't have managers in each town changing the dole-eligibility rules for instance.

If you do run a business, then please set guidelines for your managers before you go down the gurgler.
And sack those that don't follow your guidelines.
Remember, a manager can bugger things up and leave tomorrow without a care in the world - the owner is left cleaning up the mess.
And in our case the fans are left with the mess - any fans remaining that is.


I do run a business, it's in the private sector Whitters and although I appreciate your advice and concern I am doing just fine thanks. Perhaps running a business and running a football club are very similar, in which case you may consider me more qualified than most to comment.

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:59 am

I certainly DO hope the players view UTS....after all it is really THEY who bear the brunt of the disgruntlement of fans!
I've been deep into the entrails of football all my life, as a player/Ref/ and devoted fan of a poor relation West Midland team that has achieved very little in the 55+ years of my connection. (with a 'few' notable exceptions, that could be regaled on the back of a fag packet)
The players have a responsibility to put in effort and enthusiasm, after all they are in a dream profession. No matter who is the manager, if the players fail to perform we can expect nowt but disappointment.

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:18 am

If the players do read this site I hope they realise that most of us recognise that they are putting effort in and that they have the capacity to turn things around.We believe they can do that and it starts Saturday at DONNY. UTS

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Re: Milton Keynes Dons, League One Tue Oct 17, 7.45pm

Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:26 pm

Walsallone wrote:If the players do read this site I hope they realise that most of us recognise that they are putting effort in and that they have the capacity to turn things around.We believe they can do that and it starts Saturday at DONNY. UTS


I would echo that statement.

Personally, I would also add that many of us are of the opinion that the current manager is incapable of getting the best out of the squad and there seems to be no sign of this improving in the short/medium term. Therefore we are trying to convince the club to make a change of team manager. Please bear with us during this period and be assured it's no reflection on the players.

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