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Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Reports and reaction from the 2017-2018 season as Walsall finished 19th in League 1
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PT
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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:08 pm

chunkster wrote:Just a thought PT? do you think that JW in knowing that ozzy will go next season or in fact january? is setting the team up so that we will be ready to play without him?. But doesn't want to drop him completely because 1. he would suffer a backlash from fans and 2. He still has the ability to make something special happen. And if you think about it, if ozzy plays like he did yesterday for the next few games, then fans will start saying he should be dropped, which would take point 1 out of the equation :wink:


I dont think it is a conscious ploy to freeze Ozzy out or make him dispensable. I just think that Whitney compromised his own philosophy last year as he tried to continue the formula that had been successful for Smith. But that compromise didn't work and we ended up without any discernible style or plan. Whitney got dogs abuse and has probably decided that he may as well be true to himself and pick his type of players and play his type of game. If you're going to take cack you may as well take it for being you rather than the poor impression you're doing of someone else.

Ozzy s role in the team has fallen victim of that. I think if he was starting with a blank piece of paper, Whitney would go for another 6ft player who could go box to box and be the third man arriving late into the box from our plentiful supply but who could also link play at the top end of a midfield that had Chambers at its base. Rather ironically, I think I have just described Isiah Osbourne..

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:43 pm

ShyTallKnight wrote:And the Verve Cliquot Award for the most monumentally incompetent team goes to..........................................

Managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Apart from that an entertaining game.

Next three games will determine our season.

I'd say the next 40 games will determine our season. :wink:

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:55 pm

Bakayoko's dive for the red is spectacularly bad. Could have jumped the keeper and been in for an open goal. May have even got fouled in the box by the defender who was the wrong side of him. I'm sorry but it's embarrassing.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:13 pm

There was something inevitable about the result and scoreline. Leaves us midtable, P6 W2 D2 L2 GD0.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:33 pm

scott_powell wrote:Bakayoko's dive for the red is spectacularly bad. Could have jumped the keeper and been in for an open goal. May have even got fouled in the box by the defender who was the wrong side of him. I'm sorry but it's embarrassing.


That comment is so spectacularly bad that I feel I am in danger of a WOOSH! How could anyone watch that incident and not think that it was a clear penalty and deserved red card.

Bakayoko was running flat out and had all his attention focused on the ball, which he had to play before the goalkeeper reached it. Immediately Baka had touched the ball the goalkeeper's two legs made contact with his. When was he supposed to jump over the goalkeepers legs, in the 0.08 of a second between touching the ball and being wiped out?

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:14 pm

It was a foul but outside the box.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:38 pm

Harry wrote:
scott_powell wrote:Bakayoko's dive for the red is spectacularly bad. Could have jumped the keeper and been in for an open goal. May have even got fouled in the box by the defender who was the wrong side of him. I'm sorry but it's embarrassing.


That comment is so spectacularly bad that I feel I am in danger of a WOOSH! How could anyone watch that incident and not think that it was a clear penalty and deserved red card.

Bakayoko was running flat out and had all his attention focused on the ball, which he had to play before the goalkeeper reached it. Immediately Baka had touched the ball the goalkeeper's two legs made contact with his. When was he supposed to jump over the goalkeepers legs, in the 0.08 of a second between touching the ball and being wiped out?


Quite clearly an over the top dive that I think he could have avoided to have a clear site on goal. I'd say it's a foul but it looks spectacularly over the top in terms of the dive. If you think that's the natural reaction to being fouled then I suggest you re-evaluate. No whoosh necessary.

Also it wasn't a penalty, if you think that you definitely need to re-evaluate.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:40 am

Whitney now finds himself in a very tricky situation, no longer can he point to the strength of the squad as an excuse when results such as Saturday's crop up.

With the right management this squad should be knocking on the door of the play offs... cant help but feel naïve management was behind Saturdays result.

Big result needed Tuesday.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:56 am

Clearly it was disappointing and we must do better but this is a new team and will take time to gel. I think some of the comments are a little harsh on our team and manager at this moment. We have clearly signed some good players and we should be able to win matches on a regular basis. A little patience is required until that happens. We have some very tough fixtures over the next few weeks so a reasonable return from those could see us have a very good season. I am off to sunny Spain today so I shall follow our fortunes from afar as we tackle Rotherham and Peterborough.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:09 am

Here we go. Ozzy has one not-so-good game and we don't know where he fits in, he's ineffective in this game, yada yada yada.

Yes we are more direct, but it says everything that this was the worst game I have seen him have for a long time and still on the rovers forum any talk about
Walsall is that they seem a good footballing side comfortable on the ball and that they are impressed with out number 10. He isn't just watching the ball sail over his head and if Baka was more composed would have had a lovely assist first half.

Victim of his own success. He can't rescue us every game.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:22 am

El_Nombre wrote:Here we go. Ozzy has one not-so-good game and we don't know where he fits in, he's ineffective in this game, yada yada yada.

Yes we are more direct, but it says everything that this was the worst game I have seen him have for a long time and still on the rovers forum any talk about
Walsall is that they seem a good footballing side comfortable on the ball and that they are impressed with out number 10. He isn't just watching the ball sail over his head and if Baka was more composed would have had a lovely assist first half.

Victim of his own success. He can't rescue us every game.


Fully agree, especially against 10 men you would of expected the strikers to of really taken it to Rovers. The game was on a plate.

Again Baka found himself in a number of good situations but didn't capitalise , he's young though so that's alright.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:59 am

If Kory Roberts had made either of the terrible mistakes Guthrie and Donnellan made which cost us the two goals there would be plenty calling for him to be sent out on loan or to be banished to the reserves for the rest of the season.

Of the two strikers who started on Saturday it was Agyei who had the poorer game, and he was rightly subbed - yet it is Baka who has been criticised.

Oztumer's goals keep in him in the side but apart from that he has never really been worth his place in the team based on his role as a central midfielder, and Saturday was no exception.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:37 am

Harry wrote:If Kory Roberts had made either of the terrible mistakes Guthrie and Donnellan made which cost us the two goals there would be plenty calling for him to be sent out on loan or to be banished to the reserves for the rest of the season.

Of the two strikers who started on Saturday it was Agyei who had the poorer game, and he was rightly subbed - yet it is Baka who has been criticised.

Oztumer's goals keep in him in the side but apart from that he has never really been worth his place in the team based on his role as a central midfielder, and Saturday was no exception.


Good job he plays attacking midfielder then...

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:57 am

El_Nombre wrote:Here we go. Ozzy has one not-so-good game and we don't know where he fits in, he's ineffective in this game, yada yada yada.

Yes we are more direct, but it says everything that this was the worst game I have seen him have for a long time and still on the rovers forum any talk about
Walsall is that they seem a good footballing side comfortable on the ball and that they are impressed with out number 10. He isn't just watching the ball sail over his head and if Baka was more composed would have had a lovely assist first half.

Victim of his own success. He can't rescue us every game.


Opposition fans will always say nice things about such a gifted and talented player. He is a joy to watch. He also doesn't put a tackle in which would also endear him.

I guess the crux of it is whether we think an Isiah Osbourne figure in place of Ozzy would make us a better team given the way we play.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:00 pm

You have to take the rough with the smooth with Oztumer, he wont dominate a game for 90 minutes. But he does offer that moment of magic that opens up a team.

Especially at home when on the front foot he can be devastating and run a defence stupid.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:15 pm

PT wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:Here we go. Ozzy has one not-so-good game and we don't know where he fits in, he's ineffective in this game, yada yada yada.

Yes we are more direct, but it says everything that this was the worst game I have seen him have for a long time and still on the rovers forum any talk about
Walsall is that they seem a good footballing side comfortable on the ball and that they are impressed with out number 10. He isn't just watching the ball sail over his head and if Baka was more composed would have had a lovely assist first half.

Victim of his own success. He can't rescue us every game.


Opposition fans will always say nice things about such a gifted and talented player. He is a joy to watch. He also doesn't put a tackle in which would also endear him.

I guess the crux of it is whether we think an Isiah Osbourne figure in place of Ozzy would make us a better team given the way we play.


Wow. I mean considering he scored a goal last week where he put in a tackle, out muscled a man twice his size and slammed it bottom corner it seems some have short memories but Isiah Osbourne for Oztumer? Who is setting up anything, literally anything, in that team? Devlin and Leahy? Because you'd be relying on those two making a break and feeding the centre forwards. No we don't need Edwards Chambers AND Osbourne in midfield for Ozzy. That would be ridiculously negative. Most of what we do comes through him, we rely on him too much if anything and expect him to do it every game.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:29 pm

PT wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:Here we go. Ozzy has one not-so-good game and we don't know where he fits in, he's ineffective in this game, yada yada yada.

Yes we are more direct, but it says everything that this was the worst game I have seen him have for a long time and still on the rovers forum any talk about
Walsall is that they seem a good footballing side comfortable on the ball and that they are impressed with out number 10. He isn't just watching the ball sail over his head and if Baka was more composed would have had a lovely assist first half.

Victim of his own success. He can't rescue us every game.


Opposition fans will always say nice things about such a gifted and talented player. He is a joy to watch. He also doesn't put a tackle in which would also endear him.

I guess the crux of it is whether we think an Isiah Osbourne figure in place of Ozzy would make us a better team given the way we play.[/quote

I think its more down to the shape we play , which is where JW comes into it.

A solid 442 away from home could be an idea. Problem we have at the moment is JW is trying to shoe horn all of his best players into the 11 (which I understand).

however away from home 2 strikers should be more than enough attacking threat especially if we adopt wingers.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:49 pm

El_Nombre wrote:
PT wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:Here we go. Ozzy has one not-so-good game and we don't know where he fits in, he's ineffective in this game, yada yada yada.

Yes we are more direct, but it says everything that this was the worst game I have seen him have for a long time and still on the rovers forum any talk about
Walsall is that they seem a good footballing side comfortable on the ball and that they are impressed with out number 10. He isn't just watching the ball sail over his head and if Baka was more composed would have had a lovely assist first half.

Victim of his own success. He can't rescue us every game.


Opposition fans will always say nice things about such a gifted and talented player. He is a joy to watch. He also doesn't put a tackle in which would also endear him.

I guess the crux of it is whether we think an Isiah Osbourne figure in place of Ozzy would make us a better team given the way we play.


Wow. I mean considering he scored a goal last week where he put in a tackle, out muscled a man twice his size and slammed it bottom corner it seems some have short memories but Isiah Osbourne for Oztumer? Who is setting up anything, literally anything, in that team? Devlin and Leahy? Because you'd be relying on those two making a break and feeding the centre forwards. No we don't need Edwards Chambers AND Osbourne in midfield for Ozzy. That would be ridiculously negative. Most of what we do comes through him, we rely on him too much if anything and expect him to do it every game.


I wasn't there on Saturday but have been to too many away games during 2017 where we just can't get hold of the game. I believe that is because we set-up with a central midfield that can't break-out and keep hold of the ball before support arrives. Our wing-backs are like wingers at home and full-backs away. At home when it feels like 352, or 3511 there is probably more weight to your argument. But away, when it feels more like 532 or 5311 then everything ahead of Chambers looks flimsy both with and without the ball. The 2017/18 version of Walsall FC shouldn't do flimsy.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:01 pm

PT wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
PT wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:Here we go. Ozzy has one not-so-good game and we don't know where he fits in, he's ineffective in this game, yada yada yada.

Yes we are more direct, but it says everything that this was the worst game I have seen him have for a long time and still on the rovers forum any talk about
Walsall is that they seem a good footballing side comfortable on the ball and that they are impressed with out number 10. He isn't just watching the ball sail over his head and if Baka was more composed would have had a lovely assist first half.

Victim of his own success. He can't rescue us every game.


Opposition fans will always say nice things about such a gifted and talented player. He is a joy to watch. He also doesn't put a tackle in which would also endear him.

I guess the crux of it is whether we think an Isiah Osbourne figure in place of Ozzy would make us a better team given the way we play.


Wow. I mean considering he scored a goal last week where he put in a tackle, out muscled a man twice his size and slammed it bottom corner it seems some have short memories but Isiah Osbourne for Oztumer? Who is setting up anything, literally anything, in that team? Devlin and Leahy? Because you'd be relying on those two making a break and feeding the centre forwards. No we don't need Edwards Chambers AND Osbourne in midfield for Ozzy. That would be ridiculously negative. Most of what we do comes through him, we rely on him too much if anything and expect him to do it every game.


I wasn't there on Saturday but have been to too many away games during 2017 where we just can't get hold of the game. I believe that is because we set-up with a central midfield that can't break-out and keep hold of the ball before support arrives. Our wing-backs are like wingers at home and full-backs away. At home when it feels like 352, or 3511 there is probably more weight to your argument. But away, when it feels more like 532 or 5311 then everything ahead of Chambers looks flimsy both with and without the ball. The 2017/18 version of Walsall FC shouldn't do flimsy.


You didn't answer my question. Who is creating anything in that team? You've just said the wing backs are more like full back away (although they were much more like wing backs the weekend) so who's creating anything? Do we just stick two up front and wish for the best? Your argument is to switch an offensive player for a defensive player in a 532 or 5311. I really can't see that going well at all.

He's, by an absolute country mile, our best player and he waltzes into whatever formation we play at whatever ground around the country. That simple.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:32 pm

Going into Saturday's game Luke Leahy had the second most assists in the league.

My point is that away from home, we struggle to transition from defence to attack in the same way we do at home because the ball doesn't stick ahead of Chambers. An Osbourne type player would potentially (but not necessarily) help with that, thereby enabling the wing-backs more time to get forward as well as providing them with another substantial target in the box.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:28 pm

PT wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:Here we go. Ozzy has one not-so-good game and we don't know where he fits in, he's ineffective in this game, yada yada yada.

Yes we are more direct, but it says everything that this was the worst game I have seen him have for a long time and still on the rovers forum any talk about
Walsall is that they seem a good footballing side comfortable on the ball and that they are impressed with out number 10. He isn't just watching the ball sail over his head and if Baka was more composed would have had a lovely assist first half.

Victim of his own success. He can't rescue us every game.


Opposition fans will always say nice things about such a gifted and talented player. He is a joy to watch. He also doesn't put a tackle in which would also endear him.

I guess the crux of it is whether we think an Isiah Osbourne figure in place of Ozzy would make us a better team given the way we play.


Osbourne's a defensive midfield so don't really see a trio of him, Edwards and Chambers contributing much going forward.

Think a better fit for your analogy PT would be Sam Mantom who at his best could break forward from midfield and chip in with goals. The pre 2013 Cuvelier version aswell.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:10 pm

SoccerHQ wrote:
PT wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:Here we go. Ozzy has one not-so-good game and we don't know where he fits in, he's ineffective in this game, yada yada yada.

Yes we are more direct, but it says everything that this was the worst game I have seen him have for a long time and still on the rovers forum any talk about
Walsall is that they seem a good footballing side comfortable on the ball and that they are impressed with out number 10. He isn't just watching the ball sail over his head and if Baka was more composed would have had a lovely assist first half.

Victim of his own success. He can't rescue us every game.


Opposition fans will always say nice things about such a gifted and talented player. He is a joy to watch. He also doesn't put a tackle in which would also endear him.

I guess the crux of it is whether we think an Isiah Osbourne figure in place of Ozzy would make us a better team given the way we play.


Osbourne's a defensive midfield so don't really see a trio of him, Edwards and Chambers contributing much going forward.

Think a better fit for your analogy PT would be Sam Mantom who at his best could break forward from midfield and chip in with goals. The pre 2013 Cuvelier version aswell.


Yep, fair point. A league 1 version of Frank Lampard.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:29 pm

Just checked his wiki....Osbourne 5 goals in nearly 200 pro games so goalscoring dynamo he ain't.

I'm amazed he hasn't found a club to take him on btw. I know him and Whitney had a barney and he effectively walked out but surely you engineer that sort of fall out knowing there's a few teams waiting to put contract offers to you.

I assume he has a bit of money in the bank but just seems an odd strategy considering he is a good player at this level.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:42 pm

fantastic at home cack away.change of tactics needed away from home or this will just continue and prevent us from finishing in the top half.

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Re: Bristol Rovers (A) League One, 9th Sept 3pm

Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:53 am

SoccerHQ wrote:
PT wrote:I guess the crux of it is whether we think an Isiah Osbourne figure in place of Ozzy would make us a better team given the way we play.


Osbourne's a defensive midfield so don't really see a trio of him, Edwards and Chambers contributing much going forward.

Think a better fit for your analogy PT would be Sam Mantom who at his best could break forward from midfield and chip in with goals. The pre 2013 Cuvelier version aswell.



Or is this an alternative option for when we play away from home. Go for an ultra defensive midfield and make sure we don't concede. If we can then smash in a goal on the counter and grab 3pts instead of 1pt, happy days.

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