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Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Reports and reaction from the 2017-2018 season as Walsall finished 19th in League 1
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SaigonSaddler
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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:42 am

:D :D :D

There's literally no pressure applied, one of the countless player interactions that would happen during the match that could only be stamped out by the removal of everyone's arms.
There's no possible way for the player to be left sprawled on the deck from that touch.

Might as well put everyone in Zorbs if that's the way to go ... :mrgreen:

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:54 am

Having slowed it down and gone frame by frame it's even clearer that it was a "he felt contact so went down" situation. He wasn't going to win the ball so tried to gain an advantage with simulation. NO PENALTY but silly from Leahy to have his arms up.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:06 am

scott_powell wrote:Having slowed it down and gone frame by frame it's even clearer that it was a "he felt contact so went down" situation. He wasn't going to win the ball so tried to gain an advantage with simulation. NO PENALTY but silly from Leahy to have his arms up.


This.

I think Leahy put out his hands as a natural reaction and definitely no 'push'.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:46 am

SaigonSaddler wrote:
scott_powell wrote:Having slowed it down and gone frame by frame it's even clearer that it was a "he felt contact so went down" situation. He wasn't going to win the ball so tried to gain an advantage with simulation. NO PENALTY but silly from Leahy to have his arms up.

This.

I think Leahy put out his hands as a natural reaction and definitely no 'push'.

Sadly it's a "skill" in the modern game.

For me Matěj Vydra stands out as an absolute master of the art. Most of the time it involves the striker suddenly changing direction or suddenly slowing to draw a slight (and unavoidable) contact from the defender then going down like a ton of bricks.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:58 am

One big factor, from the refs point of view, is that he has to make a split second decision on the spot. From my throne in the TC my immediate thought that it was a penalty. As the ref did. The video evidence backs that up for me because I can put the two together. If I was going by the video alone I wouldnt be so sure.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:08 pm

DonningtonSaddler wrote:One big factor, from the refs point of view, is that he has to make a split second decision on the spot. From my throne in the TC my immediate thought that it was a penalty. As the ref did. The video evidence backs that up for me because I can put the two together. If I was going by the video alone I wouldnt be so sure.




I don't think the argument has been that it's tricky for the ref, or it wasn't an exquisite piece of theatrics.

Nice chair by the way! :D

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:55 pm

Last night's England match was a case in point. Hoddle discussing whether Kane had felt enough contact to justify hitting the deck. It's so wrong!

As Scott said earlier, perhaps the refs should give a penalty if a player is clipped but still stays on his feet. It's the foul that should decide if it's a penalty, not the resulting action of the fouled player.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:46 pm

Noting the above comments, I have to say, that on my introduction to becoming a ref, the first words the instructor said to us was "All footballers are cheats"....enough said methinks.

What's with all this crosses from the wing nonsense I espied on that short film? A team in Red/White at the Bank's's crossing from the wings? I'm gonna have to come down myself to confirm this anomaly.....can't be right...with Whitney in charge? We'll be scoring goals if this continues, that will never do. :wink:

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:53 pm

Well AM your eyes are not deceiving you ....the two wing backs in particular are delivering some good balls and with the forward power we now have we should score lots of goals.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:59 pm

Walsallone wrote:Well AM your eyes are not deceiving you ....the two wing backs in particular are delivering some good balls and with the forward power we now have we should score lots of goals.


Leahy's balls are sublime. It's like watching Ben Purkiss on acid. Heavenly.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:01 pm

Having watched the penalty from on the video that the Plymouth fan shot, it's a clear push from Leahy and therefore a penalty.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:13 pm

Sadsfan wrote:Having watched the penalty from on the video that the Plymouth fan shot, it's a clear push from Leahy and therefore a penalty.


No, it's not.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:14 pm

Sadsfan wrote:Having watched the penalty from on the video that the Plymouth fan shot, there's the slight hint of a featherlite touch from 'electric hands' Leahy and therefore the ref was conned into a penalty.


Changed that for you. :D :wink:

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:28 pm

Right ... Those of you who think it's a penalty ...

Yes we have established that there is contact as Leahy's arms are on his back but as you all know this is a contact sport ... Do you think there is enough force there to push a professional athlete to the ground?

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:14 pm

scott_powell wrote:Right ... Those of you who think it's a penalty ...

Yes we have established that there is contact as Leahy's arms are on his back but as you all know this is a contact sport ... Do you think there is enough force there to push a professional athlete to the ground?



I wouldn't think that when at the top of his game Mike Tyson would have been decked by a push of that calibre.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:56 pm

scott_powell wrote:Right ... Those of you who think it's a penalty ...

Yes we have established that there is contact as Leahy's arms are on his back but as you all know this is a contact sport ... Do you think there is enough force there to push a professional athlete to the ground?


To answer that we need to consider Mechanical energy. This the sum of kinetic and potential energy in an object that is used to do work. In other words, it was the energy in Leahy due to his motion or position, or both. In 'pushing' over the attacker he possessed potential chemical energy (energy stored in him), and by lifting his hands to push the attacker his action also had kinetic energy (energy -but not electrical! - in the motion of his hands). By pushing the attacker, Leahy's potential and kinetic energy was transferred into mechanical energy, which caused work to be done (ie attacker fell over). Here, the attacker gained mechanical energy, which caused him to be displaced/fall over.

I hope this clears up the matter once and for all.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:04 pm

Your daft answer is enough for me. I'm glad you agree it wasn't a penalty

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:07 pm

scott_powell wrote:Your daft answer is enough for me. I'm glad you agree it wasn't a penalty


A daft question requires a daft answer.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:25 pm

DonningtonSaddler wrote:
scott_powell wrote:Your daft answer is enough for me. I'm glad you agree it wasn't a penalty


A daft question requires a daft answer.


It wasn't daft. It is a simple yes or no. So what is it?

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:23 pm

It's bollocks. Everyone can see there wasn't enough force to result in a fall of any kind, let alone one of such drama.

Every had said this, even if they can't remember their original posts. The debate appears to centre around if Leahy was at fault for the physical act of touching in the box. Of course he's not.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:31 am

Have to give a big thanks to the usual suspects.

Had trouble getting to sleep last night so read through the last few pages of this thread. Worked a treat - best kip I've had in a long while.

BTW - it was a penalty - the ref gave it.

Whitney In.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:43 am

scott_powell wrote:
Walsallone wrote:Well AM your eyes are not deceiving you ....the two wing backs in particular are delivering some good balls and with the forward power we now have we should score lots of goals.


Leahy's balls are sublime. It's like watching Ben Purkiss on acid. Heavenly.

How do you know what Leahy's balls are like Scott?..... :? :shock:

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:46 am

sid swifty wrote:
scott_powell wrote:
Walsallone wrote:Well AM your eyes are not deceiving you ....the two wing backs in particular are delivering some good balls and with the forward power we now have we should score lots of goals.


Leahy's balls are sublime. It's like watching Ben Purkiss on acid. Heavenly.

How do you know what Leahy's balls are like Scott?..... :? :shock:


That's a secret between me and Leahy.

:twisted:

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:17 pm

It was a penalty because the referee gave it. But he should not have done. He did not have a clear view and he guessed wrongly. The Plymouth player should have been booked for simulation. It was a blatant dive. I don't agree with the assertion that there should be no contact "in play " - we wouldn't have a game if that was the position. No way was the Leahy contact sufficient to fell their striker or put him off in the slightest.. I do agree with the praise for Roberts. His last home game was against MK Dons when he suffered along with everybody else. KR proved both his footballing and temperament qualities on Saturday.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:18 pm

There is a difference between a touch and a push. If touching a player is a foul, if the touched throws himself to the ground, then we might as well give up and go and watch flower arranging...

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:11 pm

tinned wrote:As Scott said earlier, perhaps the refs should give a penalty if a player is clipped but still stays on his feet. It's the foul that should decide if it's a penalty, not the resulting action of the fouled player.

I was reffing an under 16s game last week where this happened, the striker was clipped but stayed on his feet. He had a shot from 6 yards. So at that point you think clear advantage, play on, because it's easier to score from there than a penalty and then you guessed it he missed!

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:50 am

Not the worst penalty ever conned out if a ref, but up there. Their snowflake clearly takes a dive of Olympian proportions after the application of slightly less pressure than that of the atmosphere on the surface of ocean water at sea level.

Disclaimer: I wasn't in the penalty viewing seat in the ground. Apparently that was occupied by a blind person.

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