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Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Reports and reaction from the 2017-2018 season as Walsall finished 19th in League 1
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WarsawPact
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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:26 am

On the contrary, you're ignoring the Bolts Of Force that Lehey fires out of the palms of his hands. I think he's auditioning for a part in X-Men.

Kory Roberts did well - even against Blisset who looked twice his size.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:07 am

Can't buy the moaning about loanees. Two of them weren't available yesterday any way. Chances are like always that we will keep hold of a few for the season and any that do leave can always be replaced in January. If we keep going the way we are then we will be miles away from the relegation scrap some predicted in January anyway. It was silly of Whitney to want to keep it to a minimum originally. Virtually every team in this league of our size that have been sucessful have had to rely on them. It's the cheapest way to give your squad any depth whatsoever. That's been rectified now though.

Good win and some attractive football played as well as the other side of the game. We are more direct but I don't see that as a bad thing at all. It doesn't seem aimless hoofing we look to be playing at the right times but have also become a threat from set pieces and so on.

Glad Kory Roberts seems to be winning some over.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:09 am

WarsawPact wrote:On the contrary, you're ignoring the Bolts Of Force that Lehey fires out of the palms of his hands. I think he's auditioning for a part in X-Men.

Kory Roberts did well - even against Blisset who looked twice his size.


I think it was Harry Potter, trying out a fancy new move on Quidditch.

That or a rogue sprite from Sniper Elite.


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IHTC.
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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:33 pm

SaigonSaddler wrote:
SWS11 wrote:
Whitters wrote:
Guest wrote:The goals are out there.

https://youtu.be/bMbKwBKIZLY


Thanks guest.
Penalty all day long for me....

Well, having watched it several times in slow-mo, it was a dive. He felt a touch in the back, realised the Walsall player in front of him was going to get his head to the ball, and took the tumble. Very hard for the ref, but not a penalty. That's not to say the ref was any good - any doubt about a penalty = no penalty.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

NEVER a penalty in a billion years. One of the most blatant dives of all time. Didn't realise it was so gusty at the Bezla. :shock: :lol:


Brandy also thought it was gusty at the bezla, must be traffic from the motorway

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DonningtonSaddler
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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:45 pm

IHTC. wrote:
SaigonSaddler wrote:
SWS11 wrote:
Whitters wrote:
Guest wrote:The goals are out there.

https://youtu.be/bMbKwBKIZLY


Thanks guest.
Penalty all day long for me....

Well, having watched it several times in slow-mo, it was a dive. He felt a touch in the back, realised the Walsall player in front of him was going to get his head to the ball, and took the tumble. Very hard for the ref, but not a penalty. That's not to say the ref was any good - any doubt about a penalty = no penalty.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

NEVER a penalty in a billion years. One of the most blatant dives of all time. Didn't realise it was so gusty at the Bezla. :shock: :lol:


Brandy also thought it was gusty at the bezla, must be traffic from the motorway


It was a defo penalty. As I said earlier, Luke put two hands on his back and gave him a bit of a nudge. Not enough to knock him over but enough contact for the player to emphasize it by falling over. I did slo-mo and freeze frame on the above clip and you can see the contact. Anyway, it doesn't matter, we won!. The ref got plenty wrong yesterday but this one he got right (even if it was a guess).

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:19 pm

Top 6 finish 13/2

Promotion 20/1..

Up the Saddlers

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PT
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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:34 pm

Whaleoilbeefhooked wrote:Top 6 finish 13/2

Promotion 20/1..

Up the Saddlers


Far too skinny for a side that hasnt won away in 2017.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:08 pm

Having seen our home games it is my view that we will soon win away and once we do we will probably go on a run. Those odds look about right to me. Indeed if we could start winning away I can see us having a very good season.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:35 pm

Walsallone wrote:Having seen our home games it is my view that we will soon win away and once we do we will probably go on a run. Those odds look about right to me. Indeed if we could start winning away I can see us having a very good season.


I reckon we've only played one side who might finish top half so far. Next five games including the three aways in there will tell us a lot.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:37 pm

DonningtonSaddler wrote:Luke put two hands on his back and gave him a bit of a nudge. Not enough to knock him over but enough contact for the player to emphasize it by falling over.


LOL ... that's a penalty now? :?

With the 12 micro-newtons of force that were applied in this case ... that's some magnification into the horrific aftermath of a 12 Megaton Hydrogen bomb. He practically doubles over in the DIVE.

'Can't nudge in the box lads' Utter bobbins.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:57 pm

But PT we don't know who will be finishing top half do we? Plymouth and Portsmouth were supposed to be in that group as well as Bury according to some on here a few weeks ago but after seeing Plymouth yesterday we are more likely to be in the top half than them. It is early days but I think our squad looks better than most of us thought and with the recent forward additions two of whom have had excellent debuts I am confident that we will do well.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:08 pm

SaigonSaddler wrote:
DonningtonSaddler wrote:Luke put two hands on his back and gave him a bit of a nudge. Not enough to knock him over but enough contact for the player to emphasize it by falling over.


LOL ... that's a penalty now? :?

With the 12 micro-newtons of force that were applied in this case ... that's some magnification into the horrific aftermath of a 12 Megaton Hydrogen bomb. He practically doubles over in the DIVE.

'Can't nudge in the box lads' Utter bobbins.


I suggest I had the slightly better view of it than you did.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:18 pm

DonningtonSaddler wrote:
SaigonSaddler wrote:
DonningtonSaddler wrote:Luke put two hands on his back and gave him a bit of a nudge. Not enough to knock him over but enough contact for the player to emphasize it by falling over.


LOL ... that's a penalty now? :?

With the 12 micro-newtons of force that were applied in this case ... that's some magnification into the horrific aftermath of a 12 Megaton Hydrogen bomb. He practically doubles over in the DIVE.

'Can't nudge in the box lads' Utter bobbins.


I suggest I had the slightly better view of it than you did.


I suggest you have another look at the video and tell me how it's possible to react like he did, bearing in mind the laws of physics.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:34 pm

If you think that's a penalty you need your heads looking at

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:45 pm

Walsallone wrote:But PT we don't know who will be finishing top half do we? Plymouth and Portsmouth were supposed to be in that group as well as Bury according to some on here a few weeks ago but after seeing Plymouth yesterday we are more likely to be in the top half than them. It is early days but I think our squad looks better than most of us thought and with the recent forward additions two of whom have had excellent debuts I am confident that we will do well.


I agree. Very early days indeed. If Bury, Pompey, Oldham or Plymouth finish in the top half we could win the thing!

I also agree about the squad. It does look decent. Good enough to keep us up at any rate which is better than a lot of us expected. The next half a dozen games will give us a very good bead on where we might be. Ten points or better will represent a very very good start.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:15 pm

scott_powell wrote:If you think that's a penalty you need your heads looking at


I suggest I had the slightly better view of it than you did.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:17 pm

SaigonSaddler wrote:
DonningtonSaddler wrote:
SaigonSaddler wrote:
DonningtonSaddler wrote:Luke put two hands on his back and gave him a bit of a nudge. Not enough to knock him over but enough contact for the player to emphasize it by falling over.


LOL ... that's a penalty now? :?

With the 12 micro-newtons of force that were applied in this case ... that's some magnification into the horrific aftermath of a 12 Megaton Hydrogen bomb. He practically doubles over in the DIVE.

'Can't nudge in the box lads' Utter bobbins.


I suggest I had the slightly better view of it than you did.


I suggest you have another look at the video and tell me how it's possible to react like he did, bearing in mind the laws of physics.


I had the benefit from viewing it from the Tile Choice stand too. However, if you saw it better than me from several thousand miles away , your are sadly wasting your super powers.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:39 pm

If that's a penalty then modern day football is going down the pan very quickly. The ref couldn't wait to blow every time a green clad body hit the ground. Are we really happy for football to become non-contact?

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:42 pm

DonningtonSaddler wrote:
SaigonSaddler wrote:
DonningtonSaddler wrote:
SaigonSaddler wrote:
DonningtonSaddler wrote:Luke put two hands on his back and gave him a bit of a nudge. Not enough to knock him over but enough contact for the player to emphasize it by falling over.


LOL ... that's a penalty now? :?

With the 12 micro-newtons of force that were applied in this case ... that's some magnification into the horrific aftermath of a 12 Megaton Hydrogen bomb. He practically doubles over in the DIVE.

'Can't nudge in the box lads' Utter bobbins.


I suggest I had the slightly better view of it than you did.


I suggest you have another look at the video and tell me how it's possible to react like he did, bearing in mind the laws of physics.


I had the benefit from viewing it from the Tile Choice stand too. However, if you saw it better than me from several thousand miles away , your are sadly wasting your super powers.


Wow, the Tile Choice Stand, well you should have said. :roll:

Talking of super powers, I presume you had pre-cognition of the event so you were able to sit directly in line with it (although a bit tricky in the TC) and concentrate fully on the moment, rather than at any of the other myriad goings on.

You could have been hovering invisibly 2 feet above the event and it still would have been a blatant dive, cos guess what, people don't spontaneously get electrocuted by the hands of defending players.

Luckily there's video evidence that anyone can view. :idea:

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:49 pm

But it's the "hands of the defending players" that are the problem. As tinned rightly points out, we don't want football to morph into a non-contact sport, but traditionally it's never been that .... the shoulder charge between two players in a tussle for possession has always been part of the game. But even the slightest hand-push off the ball (as in this example) is, in the strictest terms, against the laws of the game. It then becomes the referee's decision to judge the severity of each individual occurrence.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:56 pm

Its was never a penalty in my eyes.

However Leahy was rather stupid in even bothering with the push in the back anyway, the ball was going miles out of play.

The dive is rather convincing.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:11 pm

Welsh_Saddler wrote:But it's the "hands of the defending players" that are the problem. As tinned rightly points out, we don't want football to morph into a non-contact sport, but traditionally it's never been that .... the shoulder charge between two players in a tussle for possession has always been part of the game. But even the slightest hand-push off the ball (as in this example) is, in the strictest terms, against the laws of the game. It then becomes the referee's decision to judge the severity of each individual occurrence.


The level of contact compared to the resulting sprawl was total and utter simulation.

"Attempts to deceive the referee by feigning injury or pretending to have been fouled (simulation)", must be sanctioned as unsporting behaviour which is misconduct punishable by a yellow card. The rule changes are in response to an increasing trend of diving and simulation.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:40 pm

Walsallone wrote:Having seen our home games it is my view that we will soon win away and once we do we will probably go on a run. Those odds look about right to me. Indeed if we could start winning away I can see us having a very good season.

I feel you are right, but our deserved away point at Pompey is, perhaps, put into perspective by the fact that Rovrum stuffed them tonight :shock: and the stats suggest it wasn't a fluke. It was, however, Rovrum's first away win in 27 matches!!! :shock:

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:44 pm

It was a really good performance overall. We started slow, but we weathered their dominance for the opening 20 minutes and then we were on top for most of the game. We totally out-competed them and we won almost every second ball. Didn't get a good look at the penalty at the time but looking at the replays I can see why it was given.

Positives:
+Baka had the best game I've seen him play. He was a total handful for their defense the entire game and had some lovely moments of skill. We've seen this from him before but this time it was for practically the whole game until he went off. A more cynical person would think that it's because he knows he won't get many minutes otherwise with the new loanees, but I think the two up top approach takes pressure of him and plays to his strengths.
+Agyei looks good, not sure what cov fans were thinking saying he was totally awful (although it's only one game).
+Defense was very good, they only got half chances the entire match and it looked like we were destined for our first clean sheet of the season. I'm really impressed by Wilson's ability with the ball, a 3 at the back formation works best when a CB can drive into midfield and get attacks started.
+Kory Roberts was very good. I saw him at shrewsbury away last season and thought he was good at the time too, already seems more developed than Preston (which begs the question why JW wanted him to go out on loan if Preston did sign).
+Ozzy was as good as usual.

Negatives:
-that's the 4th peno we've conceded so far. I agree not all of them were valid but sometimes physical sides like ours get punished for that kind of behaviour. Hopefully not something to worry about.
-The season is not going how Morris would've wanted at all, I'm sure today will have knocked his confidence down even more.

JW has a selection headache now, regarding which two upfront and Roberts/Donellan. Tough choices but good options to have.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:49 am

Personally felt that it was a soft penalty whilst at the game, but after watching the highlights on Channel 5 its a clear penalty. 2 hands in his back so he took a tumble and WON the penalty... that's the modern game for you.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:18 am

Comes to something when we now call taking a tumble winning a penalty. Last time I checked this was still a contact sport. That doesn't mean the players decide when there has been enough contact for there to be a foul, the ref does.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:09 am

El_Nombre wrote:Comes to something when we now call taking a tumble winning a penalty. Last time I checked this was still a contact sport. That doesn't mean the players decide when there has been enough contact for there to be a foul, the ref does.


Yes, but as I stated elsewhere, there is contact and there is contact .... a shoulder charge when two (or more) players are tussling for ball possession on the ground is quite acceptable, and always has been. But when the ball is absent, any contact is against the laws of the game. So the slightest hand-contact which deprives an opposition player of his intended action is a foul, and if the referee sees it he will award appropriately. The difficulty for the referee is deciding whether it was an actual push or a "Ronaldo" dive. And, don't forget, he has to do this in real time only - no action replay for him.

Trying to look at the Plymouth Argyle penalty objectively, there was evidently contact - Leahy did push the Argyle player in the back. OK, he then made a meal of the push, sprawling on the grass as though he had been shot ... but as has been said, that's the modern game for you!

Correct full time result though... :wink:

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:22 am

Welsh_Saddler wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:Comes to something when we now call taking a tumble winning a penalty. Last time I checked this was still a contact sport. That doesn't mean the players decide when there has been enough contact for there to be a foul, the ref does.


Yes, but as I stated elsewhere, there is contact and there is contact .... a shoulder charge when two (or more) players are tussling for ball possession on the ground is quite acceptable, and always has been. But when the ball is absent, any contact is against the laws of the game. So the slightest hand-contact which deprives an opposition player of his intended action is a foul, and if the referee sees it he will award appropriately. The difficulty for the referee is deciding whether it was an actual push or a "Ronaldo" dive. And, don't forget, he has to do this in real time only - no action replay for him.

Trying to look at the Plymouth Argyle penalty objectively, there was evidently contact - Leahy did push the Argyle player in the back. OK, he then made a meal of the push, sprawling on the grass as though he had been shot ... but as has been said, that's the modern game for you!

Correct full time result though... :wink:


Agree Welsh ...

Contact was minimal, but if you are going to lead with both arms into the back of a player you are asking for it. And as you point out its almost impossible for the Referee (in real time) to establish how much force was in the push.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:29 am

Welsh_Saddler wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:Comes to something when we now call taking a tumble winning a penalty. Last time I checked this was still a contact sport. That doesn't mean the players decide when there has been enough contact for there to be a foul, the ref does.


Yes, but as I stated elsewhere, there is contact and there is contact .... a shoulder charge when two (or more) players are tussling for ball possession on the ground is quite acceptable, and always has been. But when the ball is absent, any contact is against the laws of the game. So the slightest hand-contact which deprives an opposition player of his intended action is a foul, and if the referee sees it he will award appropriately. The difficulty for the referee is deciding whether it was an actual push or a "Ronaldo" dive. And, don't forget, he has to do this in real time only - no action replay for him.

Trying to look at the Plymouth Argyle penalty objectively, there was evidently contact - Leahy did push the Argyle player in the back. OK, he then made a meal of the push, sprawling on the grass as though he had been shot ... but as has been said, that's the modern game for you!

Correct full time result though... :wink:


I think there something in the rules about intent too.

I think it's pretty clear to all but the view from a particular seat in the TC stand, that this was one of the game's many normal coming togethers of players as they moved to position themselves for a ball. What happened then was an opportunistic and deliberate act by the attacker to throw himself forward and simulate a powerful push.

If you're still not sure, how does Leahy prevent this from happening again? By not touching a player in the box at any time? For example, when a corner comes in, or a cross is made? Nigh on impossible for an effective defender as such incidents will obviously occur.

The onus here is entirely on the diving striker who simulated a push and conned the referee.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League One, Sept 2nd 3pm

Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:35 am

Mazza01 wrote:
Welsh_Saddler wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:Comes to something when we now call taking a tumble winning a penalty. Last time I checked this was still a contact sport. That doesn't mean the players decide when there has been enough contact for there to be a foul, the ref does.


Yes, but as I stated elsewhere, there is contact and there is contact .... a shoulder charge when two (or more) players are tussling for ball possession on the ground is quite acceptable, and always has been. But when the ball is absent, any contact is against the laws of the game. So the slightest hand-contact which deprives an opposition player of his intended action is a foul, and if the referee sees it he will award appropriately. The difficulty for the referee is deciding whether it was an actual push or a "Ronaldo" dive. And, don't forget, he has to do this in real time only - no action replay for him.

Trying to look at the Plymouth Argyle penalty objectively, there was evidently contact - Leahy did push the Argyle player in the back. OK, he then made a meal of the push, sprawling on the grass as though he had been shot ... but as has been said, that's the modern game for you!

Correct full time result though... :wink:


Agree Welsh ...

Contact was minimal, but if you are going to lead with both arms into the back of a player you are asking for it. And as you point out its almost impossible for the Referee (in real time) to establish how much force was in the push.


Pretty clearly though Mazza, there is no force generated, as you say 'contact was minimal'. His hands are simply in front of his body, and in order to result in the kind of effect we see, there would also have had to been a substantial thrust. Hence the 'magic hands' LOFF that has been going on in the thread.

I haven't got an issue with the Ref, as you say - tricky. But was it a penalty, in terms of breaking the rules of the game? No way.

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