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Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Reports and reaction from the 2017-2018 season as Walsall finished 19th in League 1
El_Nombre
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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:02 pm

Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
Errr why's that? Cutler will have definitely had a large hand but that's not to say Whitney didn't too.

And what's Leahy done that's so bad? I think he's had one bad half in the 3 games I've seen him and played very well second half against Oldham. Set up Bakayoko and bombed forward seemingly non stop second half and I don't remember them taking him apart defensively.

No they are put off by money, simple as. We still play more grounded football than most of the division. If anything not having many big strong units means we have to play that way. People don't look at Oztumer, Jackson, Edwards, Chambers and Morris and think "what a team of hoofers" do they? What players say and what players do are two separate things. Oztumer signed because we were a top 3 side that offered him enough money and the former is why he wouldn't sign now. Style of play and all that is lip service. Offer footballers enough money, they won't turn it down.

Oztumer signed because of the style of play and reputation that Smith built up - he simply would not have signed for Jon Whitney this summer.

I've also seen Leahy in all three of our competitive games, and the consensus with those who I've been at the games with is that he looks a bit slow for a wing back and got beat all too easily on both the inside and outside against Bury. Distribution also looked a bit shaky on Saturday - this would back up what some of the Falkirk fans were saying about him. Obviously it's early to judge, but Devlin looks the more impressive of the two so far.

I really hope Jon Whitney isn't signing our goalkeepers, that's Cutler's domain and I trust him 100% to get it right. Whitney might have the final say, but you can bet the research and groundwork is all done by Cutler.

With regards to style of play, it's obvious that there's been a change of approach - I even asked Dan Mole about this and he confirmed it at the fans focus meeting - and I actually have no problem with it as long as it's done in the right way. Direct football can still be exciting, unfortunately last season and so far this season - second half on Saturday apart - we have been long-ball and boring, which isn't a good combination.


I agree he wouldn't have signed but that's purely because of where we finished. Literally nothing to do with style of play. I don't believe it to be that drastic a change that players would turn do good money, decent offers. No chance at all.

Being a wing back isn't just about pace. He's every bit as quick as McCarthy was last year and easily as quick as Laird. I admitted he had a bad half against Oldham but there was nothing wrong with his distribution second half and I didn't see any bad reviews from Falkirk fans, and even if there were that's a very dangerous thing to trust. Troy Deeney is fat and useless, remember? I wasn't actually at the Bury game I was referring to the Villa game in preseason, where he looked absolutely fine, I'll have to take your word for Bury.

I agree Devlin looks the better player but they are not in competition with each other, they are both on the same team. I don't see the relevance. That doesn't make Laird poor.

I really hope the manager is signing all of our players personally. It's one of the things he's paid to do. If he just said "I trust you Neil" and sent him off to sign somebody then that's a pretty dangerous thing to do.

Boring yes, but long ball is very harsh considering the style of the division as a whole. I've listed the players we have in the final third, I can't seem them just being labelled by anybody as "long ball" players. If that's what Dan Mole said then he has about as much of an idea about football as you'd expect a board member that thinks you can replace a player with half the funds to do.


Our style of play 100% had an impact on Oztumer's decision to join. He would've just watched Romaine Sawyers thrive in that role and earn a move to the Championship after playing as the axis in an attacking, dynamic and expansive team. What number 10 wouldn't want to get in on that action? It's also worth remembering that when Oztumer signed, a certain Tom Bradshaw was still on the books with many still believing that he would start 16/17 in a Saddlers shirt...

He's not as quick as McCarthy - who was our paciest player last season - and Laird only got used as a 'wing-back' once away to Fleetwood and the rest of the time he slotted in as a third CB so it's not fair to compare. Like I say it's early to judge, but watch the highlights of the Bury game gets turned way too easily for the second pen and generally struggled in that game. You list those players, and I agree that they're all technical(ish) footballers, which is why it's confusing as to why we've adopted the more direct approach when we don't really have the tools to implement it.

Smith managed to get us playing with the likes of Baxendale, Featherstone and Ashley Hemmings, whereas Jon Whitney couldn't even find a place in his team for Oztumer at times last season. Whitney clearly wants us to be more direct, we'll just have to see whether it works...


That is revisionist history of the highest order. Who on earth expected Tom Bradshaw to still be at Walsall the following year? Absolutely nobody. As soon as we stayed down he was as good as gone! As far as the style goes, as I keep trying to point out to you, yes it has changed but not to the extent you are talking. It's just not being coached and executed properly. We haven't just turned into a hoofball team. It's hardly like going to watch a Chris Hutchings team play. We are still one of the smallest teams in the league!

And nonsense on Laird too. He might not have been termed a wing back but there were plenty of games he was deployed as an attacking full back at least. He got forward plenty of times and to be fair Leahy has played that role too (fullback) if you really want to compare. He was brought so that Whitney could switch between the two formations, as was Devlin. Don't know where you get that McCarthy was so much quicker. If he was it's hardly like we are comparing a Ferrari to a milk float.

If you want a debate over who was the better manager with tactical nous then I'm not arguing that. But you seem to want to make out we've gone from Barcelona to Dog and Duck in the space of a year or so in terms of style of play which really isn't the case...

If we offered decent wages players would sign. Simple as.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:20 pm

funk_hits_the_fan wrote:Views from the away end on Saturday :) Includes our goals


Nice little video. Must have spent most the match videoing to get that action although he missed Edwards' goal. Shirtless guy with scarf (11 mins 56) was in his own ranting world in the way end all match. Are the Oldham fans having a go at him after the game?

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:34 pm

You can catch the Edwards goal in the second vid, around the 5th minute. Yep, defo seems like their loon, we all have one - maybe more in our case :wink:


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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:54 pm

funk_hits_the_fan wrote:You can catch the Edwards goal in the second vid, around the 5th minute. Yep, defo seems like their loon, we all have one - maybe more in our case :wink:


Ours was Kev :wink:

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:18 am

chunkster wrote:
funk_hits_the_fan wrote:You can catch the Edwards goal in the second vid, around the 5th minute. Yep, defo seems like their loon, we all have one - maybe more in our case :wink:


Ours was Kev :wink:

Don't forget Wolfie :wink:

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:48 am

Couple of points on Baka and no I am not writing him off completely BUT:

A, He is not exactly a young boy anymore , he is his twenties so this excuse about him being young and raw is a poor one. look around the leagues there are plenty of players in his age group performing consistently at a higher level.

B, inexperienced ? correct me if I am wrong but he has now been involved with the first team squad for two or three years, and probably spent two of them training day in day out with Bradshaw who's movement he should of learnt from.

I am more than willing to give the lad chance but there comes a point where you have to face facts about a player, just as we did with Makris (same age).

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:10 am

Mazza01 wrote:Couple of points on Baka and no I am not writing him off completely BUT:

A, He is not exactly a young boy anymore , he is his twenties so this excuse about him being young and raw is a poor one. look around the leagues there are plenty of players in his age group performing consistently at a higher level.

B, inexperienced ? correct me if I am wrong but he has now been involved with the first team squad for two or three years, and probably spent two of them training day in day out with Bradshaw who's movement he should of learnt from.

I am more than willing to give the lad chance but there comes a point where you have to face facts about a player, just as we did with Makris (same age).


Yes and there are plenty of players that mature after that age. He's 21. He definitely still counts as young and inexperienced.

There's no set age where you suddenly become a good player. Some players look great at 18-23 and go on to do nothing, some don't look much cop and go on to become brilliant. You used a good example yourself, Tom Bradshaw. At roughly the same age as Bakayoko, he scored 7 goals in 30 games for Shrewsbury the season before we signed him. Hardly setting the world alight those figures. The season before that he scored absolutely nothing from 22.

I personally thought he was poor on Saturday apart from the knock downs but saying no I am not going to write him off ... then suggesting we are near the point of writing him off is ridiculous. He needs AT LEAST this season. What he does need is a proper strike partner. You can't play him up front on his own.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:16 am

El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
Errr why's that? Cutler will have definitely had a large hand but that's not to say Whitney didn't too.

And what's Leahy done that's so bad? I think he's had one bad half in the 3 games I've seen him and played very well second half against Oldham. Set up Bakayoko and bombed forward seemingly non stop second half and I don't remember them taking him apart defensively.

No they are put off by money, simple as. We still play more grounded football than most of the division. If anything not having many big strong units means we have to play that way. People don't look at Oztumer, Jackson, Edwards, Chambers and Morris and think "what a team of hoofers" do they? What players say and what players do are two separate things. Oztumer signed because we were a top 3 side that offered him enough money and the former is why he wouldn't sign now. Style of play and all that is lip service. Offer footballers enough money, they won't turn it down.

Oztumer signed because of the style of play and reputation that Smith built up - he simply would not have signed for Jon Whitney this summer.

I've also seen Leahy in all three of our competitive games, and the consensus with those who I've been at the games with is that he looks a bit slow for a wing back and got beat all too easily on both the inside and outside against Bury. Distribution also looked a bit shaky on Saturday - this would back up what some of the Falkirk fans were saying about him. Obviously it's early to judge, but Devlin looks the more impressive of the two so far.

I really hope Jon Whitney isn't signing our goalkeepers, that's Cutler's domain and I trust him 100% to get it right. Whitney might have the final say, but you can bet the research and groundwork is all done by Cutler.

With regards to style of play, it's obvious that there's been a change of approach - I even asked Dan Mole about this and he confirmed it at the fans focus meeting - and I actually have no problem with it as long as it's done in the right way. Direct football can still be exciting, unfortunately last season and so far this season - second half on Saturday apart - we have been long-ball and boring, which isn't a good combination.


I agree he wouldn't have signed but that's purely because of where we finished. Literally nothing to do with style of play. I don't believe it to be that drastic a change that players would turn do good money, decent offers. No chance at all.

Being a wing back isn't just about pace. He's every bit as quick as McCarthy was last year and easily as quick as Laird. I admitted he had a bad half against Oldham but there was nothing wrong with his distribution second half and I didn't see any bad reviews from Falkirk fans, and even if there were that's a very dangerous thing to trust. Troy Deeney is fat and useless, remember? I wasn't actually at the Bury game I was referring to the Villa game in preseason, where he looked absolutely fine, I'll have to take your word for Bury.

I agree Devlin looks the better player but they are not in competition with each other, they are both on the same team. I don't see the relevance. That doesn't make Laird poor.

I really hope the manager is signing all of our players personally. It's one of the things he's paid to do. If he just said "I trust you Neil" and sent him off to sign somebody then that's a pretty dangerous thing to do.

Boring yes, but long ball is very harsh considering the style of the division as a whole. I've listed the players we have in the final third, I can't seem them just being labelled by anybody as "long ball" players. If that's what Dan Mole said then he has about as much of an idea about football as you'd expect a board member that thinks you can replace a player with half the funds to do.


Our style of play 100% had an impact on Oztumer's decision to join. He would've just watched Romaine Sawyers thrive in that role and earn a move to the Championship after playing as the axis in an attacking, dynamic and expansive team. What number 10 wouldn't want to get in on that action? It's also worth remembering that when Oztumer signed, a certain Tom Bradshaw was still on the books with many still believing that he would start 16/17 in a Saddlers shirt...

He's not as quick as McCarthy - who was our paciest player last season - and Laird only got used as a 'wing-back' once away to Fleetwood and the rest of the time he slotted in as a third CB so it's not fair to compare. Like I say it's early to judge, but watch the highlights of the Bury game gets turned way too easily for the second pen and generally struggled in that game. You list those players, and I agree that they're all technical(ish) footballers, which is why it's confusing as to why we've adopted the more direct approach when we don't really have the tools to implement it.

Smith managed to get us playing with the likes of Baxendale, Featherstone and Ashley Hemmings, whereas Jon Whitney couldn't even find a place in his team for Oztumer at times last season. Whitney clearly wants us to be more direct, we'll just have to see whether it works...


That is revisionist history of the highest order. Who on earth expected Tom Bradshaw to still be at Walsall the following year? Absolutely nobody. As soon as we stayed down he was as good as gone! As far as the style goes, as I keep trying to point out to you, yes it has changed but not to the extent you are talking. It's just not being coached and executed properly. We haven't just turned into a hoofball team. It's hardly like going to watch a Chris Hutchings team play. We are still one of the smallest teams in the league!

And nonsense on Laird too. He might not have been termed a wing back but there were plenty of games he was deployed as an attacking full back at least. He got forward plenty of times and to be fair Leahy has played that role too (fullback) if you really want to compare. He was brought so that Whitney could switch between the two formations, as was Devlin. Don't know where you get that McCarthy was so much quicker. If he was it's hardly like we are comparing a Ferrari to a milk float.

If you want a debate over who was the better manager with tactical nous then I'm not arguing that. But you seem to want to make out we've gone from Barcelona to Dog and Duck in the space of a year or so in terms of style of play which really isn't the case...

If we offered decent wages players would sign. Simple as.


Let me ask you a question, did you go to any of the following games last season?

Northampton (a)
Scunthorpe (h)
Gillingham (a)
Macclesfield (h)
Rochdale (a)
Fleetwood (a)
Rochdale (h)
Millwall (a)
Wimbledon (a)
Fleetwood (h)
Bradford (a)
Coventry (a)
Port Vale (h)
MK Dons (h)

If you didn't then fair enough you wouldn't understand, but if you did then I genuinely can't comprehend how you think we're still a passing team. We're not, simple as. It was made a lot, lot worse last season that we were using those tactics without the players to make use of it. At least this season the side seems to have a more physical look to it, although I still feel we're 3 players short. One target man, a box to box midfielder and winger to change it up when the 5-4-1 isn't working.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:27 am

Tom_1992 wrote:
Let me ask you a question, did you go to any of the following games last season?

Northampton (a)
Scunthorpe (h)
Gillingham (a)
Macclesfield (h)
Rochdale (a)
Fleetwood (a)
Rochdale (h)
Millwall (a)
Wimbledon (a)
Fleetwood (h)
Bradford (a)
Coventry (a)
Port Vale (h)
MK Dons (h)

If you didn't then fair enough you wouldn't understand, but if you did then I genuinely can't comprehend how you think we're still a passing team. We're not, simple as. It was made a lot, lot worse last season that we were using those tactics without the players to make use of it. At least this season the side seems to have a more physical look to it, although I still feel we're 3 players short. One target man, a box to box midfielder and winger to change it up when the 5-4-1 isn't working.


Yeah I don't know how many times I'm going to have to keep repeating this. I'm not arguing that the style hasn't changed. Just not to the extent you are suggesting and some of that will be poor coaching/tactical approach as appose to just a change in style.

He clearly likes his defenders to give it a whack once in a while, particularly under pressure. Whereas under Smith he liked them to keep playing under any circumstances. Most of those games we were under the cosh for large periods. So taking into account what I have just said yes there will be more long balls than there were under Smith. Other than that I genuinely can't comprehend how you think that is a big enough change for creative players to say "no thank you". There is one thing that does that and it's the almighty dollar, that's the real world.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:41 am

El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
Let me ask you a question, did you go to any of the following games last season?

Northampton (a)
Scunthorpe (h)
Gillingham (a)
Macclesfield (h)
Rochdale (a)
Fleetwood (a)
Rochdale (h)
Millwall (a)
Wimbledon (a)
Fleetwood (h)
Bradford (a)
Coventry (a)
Port Vale (h)
MK Dons (h)

If you didn't then fair enough you wouldn't understand, but if you did then I genuinely can't comprehend how you think we're still a passing team. We're not, simple as. It was made a lot, lot worse last season that we were using those tactics without the players to make use of it. At least this season the side seems to have a more physical look to it, although I still feel we're 3 players short. One target man, a box to box midfielder and winger to change it up when the 5-4-1 isn't working.


Yeah I don't know how many times I'm going to have to keep repeating this. I'm not arguing that the style hasn't changed. Just not to the extent you are suggesting and some of that will be poor coaching/tactical approach as appose to just a change in style.

He clearly likes his defenders to give it a whack once in a while, particularly under pressure. Whereas under Smith he liked them to keep playing under any circumstances. Most of those games we were under the cosh for large periods. So taking into account what I have just said yes there will be more long balls than there were under Smith. Other than that I genuinely can't comprehend how you think that is a big enough change for creative players to say "no thank you". There is one thing that does that and it's the almighty dollar, that's the real world.


Let me ask this question, Oztumer (for example) he gets the chance to move to either Walsall under Jon Whitney in the summer of 2017 or Walsall under Dean Smith in the summer of 2015. Both offering the same money, which would he choose and why?

Actually you don't have to answer it, I'm already thinking about how unbeliebavle Sawyers, Oztumer and Bradshaw would be in the same team...

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:45 am

Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
Let me ask you a question, did you go to any of the following games last season?

Northampton (a)
Scunthorpe (h)
Gillingham (a)
Macclesfield (h)
Rochdale (a)
Fleetwood (a)
Rochdale (h)
Millwall (a)
Wimbledon (a)
Fleetwood (h)
Bradford (a)
Coventry (a)
Port Vale (h)
MK Dons (h)

If you didn't then fair enough you wouldn't understand, but if you did then I genuinely can't comprehend how you think we're still a passing team. We're not, simple as. It was made a lot, lot worse last season that we were using those tactics without the players to make use of it. At least this season the side seems to have a more physical look to it, although I still feel we're 3 players short. One target man, a box to box midfielder and winger to change it up when the 5-4-1 isn't working.


Yeah I don't know how many times I'm going to have to keep repeating this. I'm not arguing that the style hasn't changed. Just not to the extent you are suggesting and some of that will be poor coaching/tactical approach as appose to just a change in style.

He clearly likes his defenders to give it a whack once in a while, particularly under pressure. Whereas under Smith he liked them to keep playing under any circumstances. Most of those games we were under the cosh for large periods. So taking into account what I have just said yes there will be more long balls than there were under Smith. Other than that I genuinely can't comprehend how you think that is a big enough change for creative players to say "no thank you". There is one thing that does that and it's the almighty dollar, that's the real world.


Let me ask this question, Oztumer (for example) he gets the chance to move to either Walsall under Jon Whitney in the summer of 2017 or Walsall under Dean Smith in the summer of 2015. Both offering the same money, which would he choose and why?

Actually you don't have to answer it, I'm already thinking about how unbeliebavle Sawyers, Oztumer and Bradshaw would be in the same team...


You've already asked me this and I've already answered you. No he wouldn't come. And it's nothing to do with style of play. It's to do with finishing 14th in the league last year. Offer him a little more though and he might think about it. Because money is the most important aspect.

Yeah that's a nice thought. Shame it could never happen as they both were definitely leaving anyway.

Tom_1992
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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:06 am

El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
Let me ask you a question, did you go to any of the following games last season?

Northampton (a)
Scunthorpe (h)
Gillingham (a)
Macclesfield (h)
Rochdale (a)
Fleetwood (a)
Rochdale (h)
Millwall (a)
Wimbledon (a)
Fleetwood (h)
Bradford (a)
Coventry (a)
Port Vale (h)
MK Dons (h)

If you didn't then fair enough you wouldn't understand, but if you did then I genuinely can't comprehend how you think we're still a passing team. We're not, simple as. It was made a lot, lot worse last season that we were using those tactics without the players to make use of it. At least this season the side seems to have a more physical look to it, although I still feel we're 3 players short. One target man, a box to box midfielder and winger to change it up when the 5-4-1 isn't working.


Yeah I don't know how many times I'm going to have to keep repeating this. I'm not arguing that the style hasn't changed. Just not to the extent you are suggesting and some of that will be poor coaching/tactical approach as appose to just a change in style.

He clearly likes his defenders to give it a whack once in a while, particularly under pressure. Whereas under Smith he liked them to keep playing under any circumstances. Most of those games we were under the cosh for large periods. So taking into account what I have just said yes there will be more long balls than there were under Smith. Other than that I genuinely can't comprehend how you think that is a big enough change for creative players to say "no thank you". There is one thing that does that and it's the almighty dollar, that's the real world.


Let me ask this question, Oztumer (for example) he gets the chance to move to either Walsall under Jon Whitney in the summer of 2017 or Walsall under Dean Smith in the summer of 2015. Both offering the same money, which would he choose and why?

Actually you don't have to answer it, I'm already thinking about how unbeliebavle Sawyers, Oztumer and Bradshaw would be in the same team...


You've already asked me this and I've already answered you. No he wouldn't come. And it's nothing to do with style of play. It's to do with finishing 14th in the league last year. Offer him a little more though and he might think about it. Because money is the most important aspect.

Yeah that's a nice thought. Shame it could never happen as they both were definitely leaving anyway.


Read the question again, 'Summer 2015'...

El_Nombre
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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:19 am

Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
Let me ask you a question, did you go to any of the following games last season?

Northampton (a)
Scunthorpe (h)
Gillingham (a)
Macclesfield (h)
Rochdale (a)
Fleetwood (a)
Rochdale (h)
Millwall (a)
Wimbledon (a)
Fleetwood (h)
Bradford (a)
Coventry (a)
Port Vale (h)
MK Dons (h)

If you didn't then fair enough you wouldn't understand, but if you did then I genuinely can't comprehend how you think we're still a passing team. We're not, simple as. It was made a lot, lot worse last season that we were using those tactics without the players to make use of it. At least this season the side seems to have a more physical look to it, although I still feel we're 3 players short. One target man, a box to box midfielder and winger to change it up when the 5-4-1 isn't working.


Yeah I don't know how many times I'm going to have to keep repeating this. I'm not arguing that the style hasn't changed. Just not to the extent you are suggesting and some of that will be poor coaching/tactical approach as appose to just a change in style.

He clearly likes his defenders to give it a whack once in a while, particularly under pressure. Whereas under Smith he liked them to keep playing under any circumstances. Most of those games we were under the cosh for large periods. So taking into account what I have just said yes there will be more long balls than there were under Smith. Other than that I genuinely can't comprehend how you think that is a big enough change for creative players to say "no thank you". There is one thing that does that and it's the almighty dollar, that's the real world.


Let me ask this question, Oztumer (for example) he gets the chance to move to either Walsall under Jon Whitney in the summer of 2017 or Walsall under Dean Smith in the summer of 2015. Both offering the same money, which would he choose and why?

Actually you don't have to answer it, I'm already thinking about how unbeliebavle Sawyers, Oztumer and Bradshaw would be in the same team...


You've already asked me this and I've already answered you. No he wouldn't come. And it's nothing to do with style of play. It's to do with finishing 14th in the league last year. Offer him a little more though and he might think about it. Because money is the most important aspect.

Yeah that's a nice thought. Shame it could never happen as they both were definitely leaving anyway.


Read the question again, 'Summer 2015'...


Well the answer doesn't change. He still wouldn't have come unless you offered him more money because we finished 14th. Any other completely pointless hypothetical questions you would like answering?

Tom_1992
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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:00 am

Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:

Well the answer doesn't change. He still wouldn't have come unless you offered him more money because we finished 14th. Any other completely pointless hypothetical questions you would like answering?
[/quote]

Aaaannnnddd you've not read that question aagin. Comprehension clearly isn't your forte. If you think Oztumer would rather play in this team compared to the 15/16 side then fine, we'll just leave it there.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:03 am

Tom_1992 wrote:
Aaaannnnddd you've not read that question aagin. Comprehension clearly isn't your forte. If you think Oztumer would rather play in this team compared to the 15/16 side then fine, we'll just leave it there.


WTF?! I answered your question directly. He wouldn't have signed either year for the same money. Or do you want to just ignore context

Comprehension may not be mine, but clearly common sense isn't yours.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:24 am

El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
Aaaannnnddd you've not read that question aagin. Comprehension clearly isn't your forte. If you think Oztumer would rather play in this team compared to the 15/16 side then fine, we'll just leave it there.


WTF?! I answered your question directly. He wouldn't have signed either year for the same money. Or do you want to just ignore context

Comprehension may not be mine, but clearly common sense isn't yours.


So previous league position is all you're judging it on? The style of play and where a player feels they will fit in with that sysytem and style of play is more important imo, hence why we've failed to attract a single attacking player this summer. Obviously money trumps both of those factors.

Also, just a couple of quotes from when Oztumer joined...

“The attraction is the way Walsall play. Playing against them for two years, I like the way they keep the ball and play the game. I think it suits me so this was my first choice.

“Hopefully I can get a lot of assists. I’m a player who likes to feed the strikers and hopefully I can add some goals to the team as well."

I don't really need to say anymore...

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:30 am

Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
Aaaannnnddd you've not read that question aagin. Comprehension clearly isn't your forte. If you think Oztumer would rather play in this team compared to the 15/16 side then fine, we'll just leave it there.


WTF?! I answered your question directly. He wouldn't have signed either year for the same money. Or do you want to just ignore context

Comprehension may not be mine, but clearly common sense isn't yours.


So previous league position is all you're judging it on? The style of play and where a player feels they will fit in with that sysytem and style of play is more important imo, hence why we've failed to attract a single attacking player this summer. Obviously money trumps both of those factors.

Also, just a couple of quotes from when Oztumer joined...

“The attraction is the way Walsall play. Playing against them for two years, I like the way they keep the ball and play the game. I think it suits me so this was my first choice.

“Hopefully I can get a lot of assists. I’m a player who likes to feed the strikers and hopefully I can add some goals to the team as well."

I don't really need to say anymore...


Nope there are loads of factors in any transfer! You listed one in your original question but I don't feel that is the relevant factor, i.e. style of play, because I don't think that is the issue. Now you are trying to make out it is me viewing this narrowly. Wow.

Who's to say he would get on with Smith? Whose to say he saw himself in that system (Sawyers played his role after all)? That's why I called your hypothetical question completely pointless! But, if I was taking a guess, I'd say he'd have been put off the league position in both scenarios.

Yep lovely quotes there from Erhun after joining 3rd in the league Walsall who were about to free up loads of the budget, selling his main competition for a place.

I don't think I do either.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:38 am

El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
Aaaannnnddd you've not read that question aagin. Comprehension clearly isn't your forte. If you think Oztumer would rather play in this team compared to the 15/16 side then fine, we'll just leave it there.


WTF?! I answered your question directly. He wouldn't have signed either year for the same money. Or do you want to just ignore context

Comprehension may not be mine, but clearly common sense isn't yours.


So previous league position is all you're judging it on? The style of play and where a player feels they will fit in with that sysytem and style of play is more important imo, hence why we've failed to attract a single attacking player this summer. Obviously money trumps both of those factors.

Also, just a couple of quotes from when Oztumer joined...

“The attraction is the way Walsall play. Playing against them for two years, I like the way they keep the ball and play the game. I think it suits me so this was my first choice.

“Hopefully I can get a lot of assists. I’m a player who likes to feed the strikers and hopefully I can add some goals to the team as well."

I don't really need to say anymore...


Nope there are loads of factors in any transfer! You listed one in your original question but I don't feel that is the relevant factor, i.e. style of play, because I don't think that is the issue. Now you are trying to make out it is me viewing this narrowly. Wow.

Who's to say he would get on with Smith? Whose to say he saw himself in that system (Sawyers played his role after all)? That's why I called your hypothetical question completely pointless! But, if I was taking a guess, I'd say he'd have been put off the league position in both scenarios.

Yep lovely quotes there from Erhun after joining 3rd in the league Walsall who were about to free up loads of the budget, selling his main competition for a place.

I don't think I do either.


He literally said he joined because of the style of play, how can you say it's not a relevant factor when it's what he said?!?!?! That's the only real evidence available, everything you're saying is conjecture.

Hypothetical again, but Sawyers can adequately play a deeper role in midfield as he did for Brentford last season under Smith with a number 10 in front of him.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:46 am

Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
Aaaannnnddd you've not read that question aagin. Comprehension clearly isn't your forte. If you think Oztumer would rather play in this team compared to the 15/16 side then fine, we'll just leave it there.


WTF?! I answered your question directly. He wouldn't have signed either year for the same money. Or do you want to just ignore context

Comprehension may not be mine, but clearly common sense isn't yours.


So previous league position is all you're judging it on? The style of play and where a player feels they will fit in with that sysytem and style of play is more important imo, hence why we've failed to attract a single attacking player this summer. Obviously money trumps both of those factors.

Also, just a couple of quotes from when Oztumer joined...

“The attraction is the way Walsall play. Playing against them for two years, I like the way they keep the ball and play the game. I think it suits me so this was my first choice.

“Hopefully I can get a lot of assists. I’m a player who likes to feed the strikers and hopefully I can add some goals to the team as well."

I don't really need to say anymore...


Nope there are loads of factors in any transfer! You listed one in your original question but I don't feel that is the relevant factor, i.e. style of play, because I don't think that is the issue. Now you are trying to make out it is me viewing this narrowly. Wow.

Who's to say he would get on with Smith? Whose to say he saw himself in that system (Sawyers played his role after all)? That's why I called your hypothetical question completely pointless! But, if I was taking a guess, I'd say he'd have been put off the league position in both scenarios.

Yep lovely quotes there from Erhun after joining 3rd in the league Walsall who were about to free up loads of the budget, selling his main competition for a place.

I don't think I do either.


He literally said he joined because of the style of play, how can you say it's not a relevant factor when it's what he said?!?!?! That's the only real evidence available, everything you're saying is conjecture.

Hypothetical again, but Sawyers can adequately play a deeper role in midfield as he did for Brentford last season under Smith with a number 10 in front of him.


Christ we are hypothetically adjusting Smith's formation to presume how we would accommodate and attract Erhun Oztumer now...

Yep and they are lovely things to say. Just what the fans want to hear actually. He's not going to come out and say I came for some money and if we don't finish top 6 I'll move on ASAP is he?

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:50 am

El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:

Christ we are hypothetically adjusting Smith's formation to presume how we would accommodate and attract Erhun Oztumer now...

Yep and they are lovely things to say. Just what the fans want to hear actually. He's not going to come out and say I came for some money and if we don't finish top 6 I'll move on ASAP is he?


I already said that money trumps all, but you're trying to discredit style of play and the philosophy built up by Smith as a reason for him joining, when he clearly states that as a (major) factor.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:00 am

Tom_1992 wrote:
I already said that money trumps all, but you're trying to discredit style of play and the philosophy built up by Smith as a reason for him joining, when he clearly states that as a (major) factor.


That's exactly what I'm doing. Not just about Oztumer but literally any transfer. There are literally a million reasons a player might join a club, but right at the top, the very top, more important than anything, is money and if we were offering decent sums then style of play, league position, manager, the lot would not be an issue. And that the change in style of play is not drastic enough to put players off in the first place. It might not be attractive enough to be top priority anymore for a transfer target but it certainly won't be putting them off. Unless you are seriously suggesting that in this league we would be considered a rough and ready kick and chase team...

I'm sure it's lovely to play in a team that knocks the ball around for 20 minutes a time. You might even say that to the press. But that's the reality of the situation. He knew he wasn't going to be working under "Dean Smith's Philosophy" when he said that!

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:11 am

El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
I already said that money trumps all, but you're trying to discredit style of play and the philosophy built up by Smith as a reason for him joining, when he clearly states that as a (major) factor.


That's exactly what I'm doing. Not just about Oztumer but literally any transfer. There are literally a million reasons a player might join a club, but right at the top, the very top, more important than anything, is money and if we were offering decent sums then style of play, league position, manager, the lot would not be an issue. And that the change in style of play is not drastic enough to put players off in the first place. It might not be attractive enough to be top priority anymore for a transfer target but it certainly won't be putting them off. Unless you are seriously suggesting that in this league we would be considered a rough and ready kick and chase team...

I'm sure it's lovely to play in a team that knocks the ball around for 20 minutes a time. You might even say that to the press. But that's the reality of the situation. He knew he wasn't going to be working under "Dean Smith's Philosophy" when he said that!


How do you know Whitney hadn't sold the club to Oztumer using the on field philosophy built by Smith? You're literally assuming with no evidence.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:26 am

scott_powell wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
I already said that money trumps all, but you're trying to discredit style of play and the philosophy built up by Smith as a reason for him joining, when he clearly states that as a (major) factor.


That's exactly what I'm doing. Not just about Oztumer but literally any transfer. There are literally a million reasons a player might join a club, but right at the top, the very top, more important than anything, is money and if we were offering decent sums then style of play, league position, manager, the lot would not be an issue. And that the change in style of play is not drastic enough to put players off in the first place. It might not be attractive enough to be top priority anymore for a transfer target but it certainly won't be putting them off. Unless you are seriously suggesting that in this league we would be considered a rough and ready kick and chase team...

I'm sure it's lovely to play in a team that knocks the ball around for 20 minutes a time. You might even say that to the press. But that's the reality of the situation. He knew he wasn't going to be working under "Dean Smith's Philosophy" when he said that!


How do you know Whitney hadn't sold the club to Oztumer using the on field philosophy built by Smith? You're literally assuming with no evidence.


El_Nombre seems to do a lot of that. Just because he lost the argument he's getting angry. Chill.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:27 am

What we need to remember too is that Oztumer is extremely limited with certain physical attributes. If both us and Bradford after the 15/16 season had offered him the same deal I am confident he'd come to us even with Bradford being the bigger club of the two. Yes money trumps all but our style of play would have certainly been a major factor.

The style Whitney inherited is perfect for Oztumer to showcase his talents and move on with his career. Oztumer isn't stupid.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:31 am

scott_powell wrote:What we need to remember too is that Oztumer is extremely limited with certain physical attributes. If both us and Bradford after the 15/16 season had offered him the same deal I am confident he'd come to us even with Bradford being the bigger club of the two. Yes money trumps all but our style of play would have certainly been a major factor.

The style Whitney inherited is perfect for Oztumer to showcase his talents and move on with his career. Oztumer isn't stupid.


No, no, no, it means nothing and apparently we still pass the ball around like it's 2015... The amount of 'keep the ball on the deck' shouts from the upper tier in the first half on Saturday shows how we've changed.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:34 am

scott_powell wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
I already said that money trumps all, but you're trying to discredit style of play and the philosophy built up by Smith as a reason for him joining, when he clearly states that as a (major) factor.


That's exactly what I'm doing. Not just about Oztumer but literally any transfer. There are literally a million reasons a player might join a club, but right at the top, the very top, more important than anything, is money and if we were offering decent sums then style of play, league position, manager, the lot would not be an issue. And that the change in style of play is not drastic enough to put players off in the first place. It might not be attractive enough to be top priority anymore for a transfer target but it certainly won't be putting them off. Unless you are seriously suggesting that in this league we would be considered a rough and ready kick and chase team...

I'm sure it's lovely to play in a team that knocks the ball around for 20 minutes a time. You might even say that to the press. But that's the reality of the situation. He knew he wasn't going to be working under "Dean Smith's Philosophy" when he said that!


How do you know Whitney hadn't sold the club to Oztumer using the on field philosophy built by Smith? You're literally assuming with no evidence.


All of this is assumption for a start but even so, it's never going to be EXACTLY the same from one manager to another is it?

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:35 am

scott_powell wrote:What we need to remember too is that Oztumer is extremely limited with certain physical attributes. If both us and Bradford after the 15/16 season had offered him the same deal I am confident he'd come to us even with Bradford being the bigger club of the two. Yes money trumps all but our style of play would have certainly been a major factor.

The style Whitney inherited is perfect for Oztumer to showcase his talents and move on with his career. Oztumer isn't stupid.


But what I'm arguing is that the style of play hasn't shifted enough for the case not to be the same now. Yes it's more direct but it's not like we hoof balls for 90 minutes.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:36 am

Tom_1992 wrote:
scott_powell wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
I already said that money trumps all, but you're trying to discredit style of play and the philosophy built up by Smith as a reason for him joining, when he clearly states that as a (major) factor.


That's exactly what I'm doing. Not just about Oztumer but literally any transfer. There are literally a million reasons a player might join a club, but right at the top, the very top, more important than anything, is money and if we were offering decent sums then style of play, league position, manager, the lot would not be an issue. And that the change in style of play is not drastic enough to put players off in the first place. It might not be attractive enough to be top priority anymore for a transfer target but it certainly won't be putting them off. Unless you are seriously suggesting that in this league we would be considered a rough and ready kick and chase team...

I'm sure it's lovely to play in a team that knocks the ball around for 20 minutes a time. You might even say that to the press. But that's the reality of the situation. He knew he wasn't going to be working under "Dean Smith's Philosophy" when he said that!


How do you know Whitney hadn't sold the club to Oztumer using the on field philosophy built by Smith? You're literally assuming with no evidence.


El_Nombre seems to do a lot of that. Just because he lost the argument he's getting angry. Chill.


Yawn. Yes because you put exclamation marks on a point you must be literally on the edge of breakdown. Perfectly chill mate.

"Lost the argument" Ok mate. You haven't won an argument if you haven't changed the other persons opinion at all.
Last edited by El_Nombre on Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:37 am

Tom_1992 wrote:
scott_powell wrote:What we need to remember too is that Oztumer is extremely limited with certain physical attributes. If both us and Bradford after the 15/16 season had offered him the same deal I am confident he'd come to us even with Bradford being the bigger club of the two. Yes money trumps all but our style of play would have certainly been a major factor.

The style Whitney inherited is perfect for Oztumer to showcase his talents and move on with his career. Oztumer isn't stupid.


No, no, no, it means nothing and apparently we still pass the ball around like it's 2015... The amount of 'keep the ball on the deck' shouts from the upper tier in the first half on Saturday shows how we've changed.


I've literally never said that. Not even once...

If we are listening to the upper deck for footballing advice we really are in trouble. We hardly hoofed the ball around all half.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:44 am

Oh dear.
Looks like this thread has gone literally bonkers.

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