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Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Reports and reaction from the 2017-2018 season as Walsall finished 19th in League 1
Mazza01
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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:32 am

Criticism of Baka was more than warranted , first half he was dreadful no movement and no desire to pressure the defenders. Second half he did up his work rate and won a couple of decent knock downs.

I think away from home he will get closed out of games far to easily.

A decent striker would of caused havoc against that Oldham team.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:40 am

Mazza01 wrote:Criticism of Baka was more than warranted , first half he was dreadful no movement and no desire to pressure the defenders. Second half he did up his work rate and won a couple of decent knock downs.

I think away from home he will get closed out of games far to easily.

A decent striker would of caused havoc against that Oldham team.


Absolutely agree with this. His miss was unfortunate but one of those he would have buried on another day. However, he just doesn't make runs like we know he can do (villa in pre-season as an example), positional play is generally poor. If he sorted out that part of his game he would be a considerably better player.

What about Morris? My opinion was that he has the usual frustrating performance (especially in the first half), good runs, very poor distribution.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:55 am

sirrammell wrote:
Mazza01 wrote:Criticism of Baka was more than warranted , first half he was dreadful no movement and no desire to pressure the defenders. Second half he did up his work rate and won a couple of decent knock downs.

I think away from home he will get closed out of games far to easily.

A decent striker would of caused havoc against that Oldham team.


Absolutely agree with this. His miss was unfortunate but one of those he would have buried on another day. However, he just doesn't make runs like we know he can do (villa in pre-season as an example), positional play is generally poor. If he sorted out that part of his game he would be a considerably better player.

What about Morris? My opinion was that he has the usual frustrating performance (especially in the first half), good runs, very poor distribution.


He looks like he's running in water at the minute Morris. I don't know whether it's just general bad form but there is no zip to his play. I never feel like he is going to beat the man.

Luke Leahy didn't have the best of games first half either which didn't help Morris to be fair, he was playing on the left for some time and Leahy couldn't get going. Second half Leahy picked it up but Morris had already switched sides.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:04 am

I thought Morris did ok Saturday but not at the things we would like him to do .....run at people ,shoot on goal and pass well! He did however win more tackles than usual, covered well in defence and competed well against some bigger units in midfield.Perhaps he was trying too hard .....there was an element of that in Leahy and Devlin too especially in the first half.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:45 am

El_Nombre wrote:
sirrammell wrote:
Mazza01 wrote:Criticism of Baka was more than warranted , first half he was dreadful no movement and no desire to pressure the defenders. Second half he did up his work rate and won a couple of decent knock downs.

I think away from home he will get closed out of games far to easily.

A decent striker would of caused havoc against that Oldham team.


Absolutely agree with this. His miss was unfortunate but one of those he would have buried on another day. However, he just doesn't make runs like we know he can do (villa in pre-season as an example), positional play is generally poor. If he sorted out that part of his game he would be a considerably better player.

What about Morris? My opinion was that he has the usual frustrating performance (especially in the first half), good runs, very poor distribution.


He looks like he's running in water at the minute Morris. I don't know whether it's just general bad form but there is no zip to his play. I never feel like he is going to beat the man.

Luke Leahy didn't have the best of games first half either which didn't help Morris to be fair, he was playing on the left for some time and Leahy couldn't get going. Second half Leahy picked it up but Morris had already switched sides.



Regarding Leahy, he generally always seemed to be making the right runs it was just getting him the ball at times that didn't help imo. He will be a good asset like Devlin. Thought Morris did ok on a whole with a few nearly passes thrown in for good measure - Cuvelier would have probably shone in that game.

I was impressed with Baka's sliding challenge on their absolute unit bringing the ball out of defence that resulted in us nearly scoring but at times he did look awfully static. Far better second half and i look forward to the battle ahead on Saturday.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:40 pm

Some very fair responses.I am not suggesting Baka is anywhere near the finished article and I am sure he would be the first to agree there is plenty of room for improvement.All I am asking is for more balance and I shudder when I see some people in effect labelling one of our young players as a complete waste of space.
Some posters have a rare ability to only comment on the negatives.At least some of us have now agreed that he did win some headers and he did outmuscle one of their central defenders in the first half.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:59 pm

The General wrote:Some very fair responses. I am not suggesting Baka is anywhere near the finished article and I am sure he would be the first to agree there is plenty of room for improvement. All I am asking is for more balance and I shudder when I see some people in effect labelling one of our young players as a complete waste of space.
Some posters have a rare ability to only comment on the negatives. At least some of us have now agreed that he did win some headers and he did outmuscle one of their central defenders in the first half.

Hear! Hear! General. It really is depressing to read some of the posts on here. Sure, Bakayoko makes plenty of mistakes but he is a raw, inexperienced young player at the beginning of what he, and we, hope will be a long professional career. The two main negatives are a poor first touch on the ball (what are the coaching staff doing to help him?) and his tactical awareness (or lack of it). Too often, he has to react to situations, being apparently incapable of anticipating them - "reading the game" in more usual parlance. His strong points are his pace and a strong left foot (usually!). He also has a physical presence which he should use more often.

What he doesn't need is ignorant fans barracking him or moaning at him or even the often ridiculous one-eyed criticism of him on message boards. Give the lad encouragement. By the very nature of their job, strikers will always make more mistakes than players in other positions and, unless the manager finally gets round to signing one or two strikers, Baka will have to bear the brunt of the striker's load up front.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:39 pm

Pedagogue wrote:
The General wrote:Some very fair responses. I am not suggesting Baka is anywhere near the finished article and I am sure he would be the first to agree there is plenty of room for improvement. All I am asking is for more balance and I shudder when I see some people in effect labelling one of our young players as a complete waste of space.
Some posters have a rare ability to only comment on the negatives. At least some of us have now agreed that he did win some headers and he did outmuscle one of their central defenders in the first half.

Hear! Hear! General. It really is depressing to read some of the posts on here. Sure, Bakayoko makes plenty of mistakes but he is a raw, inexperienced young player at the beginning of what he, and we, hope will be a long professional career. The two main negatives are a poor first touch on the ball (what are the coaching staff doing to help him?) and his tactical awareness (or lack of it). Too often, he has to react to situations, being apparently incapable of anticipating them - "reading the game" in more usual parlance. His strong points are his pace and a strong left foot (usually!). He also has a physical presence which he should use more often.

What he doesn't need is ignorant fans barracking him or moaning at him or even the often ridiculous one-eyed criticism of him on message boards. Give the lad encouragement. By the very nature of their job, strikers will always make more mistakes than players in other positions and, unless the manager finally gets round to signing one or two strikers, Baka will have to bear the brunt of the striker's load up front.


Oh dear, go on put us all in a state of utter depression then. :? I do believe we won't see a striker come to the club, period, so regrettably, for this season, I think you may be right.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:16 pm

Ancient Moaner wrote:
Pedagogue wrote:
The General wrote:Some very fair responses. I am not suggesting Baka is anywhere near the finished article and I am sure he would be the first to agree there is plenty of room for improvement. All I am asking is for more balance and I shudder when I see some people in effect labelling one of our young players as a complete waste of space.
Some posters have a rare ability to only comment on the negatives. At least some of us have now agreed that he did win some headers and he did outmuscle one of their central defenders in the first half.

Hear! Hear! General. It really is depressing to read some of the posts on here. Sure, Bakayoko makes plenty of mistakes but he is a raw, inexperienced young player at the beginning of what he, and we, hope will be a long professional career. The two main negatives are a poor first touch on the ball (what are the coaching staff doing to help him?) and his tactical awareness (or lack of it). Too often, he has to react to situations, being apparently incapable of anticipating them - "reading the game" in more usual parlance. His strong points are his pace and a strong left foot (usually!). He also has a physical presence which he should use more often.

What he doesn't need is ignorant fans barracking him or moaning at him or even the often ridiculous one-eyed criticism of him on message boards. Give the lad encouragement. By the very nature of their job, strikers will always make more mistakes than players in other positions and, unless the manager finally gets round to signing one or two strikers, Baka will have to bear the brunt of the striker's load up front.


Oh dear, go on put us all in a state of utter depression then. :? I do believe we won't see a striker come to the club, period, so regrettably, for this season, I think you may be right.


C'mon AM, we will see a striker soon so cheer up until you see that I am right. :D

Then of course you can moan that he will not be good enough before he even kicks a ball. :roll:

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:29 pm

Optimistic wrote:
Ancient Moaner wrote:
Pedagogue wrote:
The General wrote:Some very fair responses. I am not suggesting Baka is anywhere near the finished article and I am sure he would be the first to agree there is plenty of room for improvement. All I am asking is for more balance and I shudder when I see some people in effect labelling one of our young players as a complete waste of space.
Some posters have a rare ability to only comment on the negatives. At least some of us have now agreed that he did win some headers and he did outmuscle one of their central defenders in the first half.

Hear! Hear! General. It really is depressing to read some of the posts on here. Sure, Bakayoko makes plenty of mistakes but he is a raw, inexperienced young player at the beginning of what he, and we, hope will be a long professional career. The two main negatives are a poor first touch on the ball (what are the coaching staff doing to help him?) and his tactical awareness (or lack of it). Too often, he has to react to situations, being apparently incapable of anticipating them - "reading the game" in more usual parlance. His strong points are his pace and a strong left foot (usually!). He also has a physical presence which he should use more often.

What he doesn't need is ignorant fans barracking him or moaning at him or even the often ridiculous one-eyed criticism of him on message boards. Give the lad encouragement. By the very nature of their job, strikers will always make more mistakes than players in other positions and, unless the manager finally gets round to signing one or two strikers, Baka will have to bear the brunt of the striker's load up front.


Oh dear, go on put us all in a state of utter depression then. :? I do believe we won't see a striker come to the club, period, so regrettably, for this season, I think you may be right.


C'mon AM, we will see a striker soon so cheer up until you see that I am right. :D

Then of course you can moan that he will not be good enough before he even kicks a ball. :roll:
Don't you have the audacity to deride our AM, he knows all about strikers, he was a prolific one himself between 1984/85 :mrgreen:

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:17 am

I read that Erhun was upset about some fans booing at the half time whistle. What do people think about that?

I agree with the sentiment that the crowd should be supportive but it probably helped to get them going in the second half. Being able to express your displeasure is part of the game, letting out frustrations after a hard week down the pit, no?

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:32 am

sirrammell wrote:I read that Erhun was upset about some fans booing at the half time whistle. What do people think about that?

I agree with the sentiment that the crowd should be supportive but it probably helped to get them going in the second half. Being able to express your displeasure is part of the game, letting out frustrations after a hard week down the pit, no?


Thought it was actually restrained, considering the on-line discontent. The support was good throughout.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:15 am

sirrammell wrote:I read that Erhun was upset about some fans booing at the half time whistle. What do people think about that?

I agree with the sentiment that the crowd should be supportive but it probably helped to get them going in the second half. Being able to express your displeasure is part of the game, letting out frustrations after a hard week down the pit, no?


Personally I was disgusted that fans booed at half time, especially in view of the fact that it was the first home game of the season and we were not dreadful in the first half. In fact considering we had a whole new back 6 (including a loan player who had trained with the team for only 45 minutes) the only negative point of the first half is that we were a goal down.

I don't think for one minute that booing would get them going in the second half and the comments by Erhun prove that. I suggest it was Whitney's half time talk which got them going but to acknowledge that means giving him credit which is alien to many posters on UTS.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:17 am

SaigonSaddler wrote:
sirrammell wrote:I read that Erhun was upset about some fans booing at the half time whistle. What do people think about that?

I agree with the sentiment that the crowd should be supportive but it probably helped to get them going in the second half. Being able to express your displeasure is part of the game, letting out frustrations after a hard week down the pit, no?


Thought it was actually restrained, considering the on-line discontent. The support was good throughout.


To be honest I read that article and think Erhun is being a little naive. He says he was upset with the booing, but then goes on to say that the first half performance was lethargic, too slow and we weren't creating any real chances. He also says Whitney got into them at half time as well.

So bearing that in mind and that we have had 2 games two losses and losing again at half time I'm not sure what he expected. I'm not one to boo the team off and I didn't but I certainly wasn't surprised and I didn't think it was over the top. I certainly wasn't standing and clapping.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:53 am

I would say that the booing had a positive effect in the fact that Witney probably layed into the players along the line of "if you don't get your fudgin arses into gear you are going to get me the sack, and I will take you down with me" :lol:

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:28 am

Baka has the heat map of my freezer on an iceberg

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:51 am

Optimistic wrote:
sirrammell wrote:I read that Erhun was upset about some fans booing at the half time whistle. What do people think about that?

I agree with the sentiment that the crowd should be supportive but it probably helped to get them going in the second half. Being able to express your displeasure is part of the game, letting out frustrations after a hard week down the pit, no?


Personally I was disgusted that fans booed at half time, especially in view of the fact that it was the first home game of the season and we were not dreadful in the first half. In fact considering we had a whole new back 6 (including a loan player who had trained with the team for only 45 minutes) the only negative point of the first half is that we were a goal down.

I don't think for one minute that booing would get them going in the second half and the comments by Erhun prove that. I suggest it was Whitney's half time talk which got them going but to acknowledge that means giving him credit which is alien to many posters on UTS.


People were angry after months of boring, negative, hoofball tactics that has seen zero away wins in 2017 and no home wins since Easter. The first-half on saturday was exactly the same as the 6 months that preceeded it. The football was slow, lethargic and did nothing to inspire the supporters, the half-time jeers were fully justified and actually quite reserved.

The second half showed Whitney what he needs to do to get the fans on side with the team, play with tempo, create chances and generally attack the opposition. We now know that a return to the fluid football under Dean Smith is never going to happen, but the second half at least gave a small bit of hope that the more direct approach we're going to see under Whitney can still be exciting.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:58 am

chunkster wrote:I would say that the booing had a positive effect in the fact that Witney probably layed into the players along the line of "if you don't get your fudgin arses into gear you are going to get me the sack, and I will take you down with me" :lol:


Possibly, that did cross my mind, but what a welcome for the new signings from the home fans. You only get one chance to make a good first impression and some of the home fans blew it. Probably the same ones which Cully mentioned on the Bury Thread:

'Finally, couldn't understand the chants of Whitney out on the opening day of the new season, we've got some thick fans'.

We always seem to have a hardcore of 'Manager Out' fans regardless of who the manager is. Unbelievable.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:16 pm

An occasional half-time jeer sometimes doesn't go amiss. It can focus the minds and dispel any sign of complacency.

I half-heartedly jeered at half-time and stood and clapped at full-time. The change in my response was only partly to do with the respective scores and more to do with the polar opposite performances.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:17 pm

Optimistic wrote:
chunkster wrote:I would say that the booing had a positive effect in the fact that Witney probably layed into the players along the line of "if you don't get your fudgin arses into gear you are going to get me the sack, and I will take you down with me" :lol:


Possibly, that did cross my mind, but what a welcome for the new signings from the home fans. You only get one chance to make a good first impression and some of the home fans blew it. Probably the same ones which Cully mentioned on the Bury Thread:

'Finally, couldn't understand the chants of Whitney out on the opening day of the new season, we've got some thick fans'.

We always seem to have a hardcore of 'Manager Out' fans regardless of who the manager is. Unbelievable.


Another misconception. Lots of people who backed Smith during his worst moments are the loudest advocates for Whitney to go. Categorising everyone who wants Whitney gone as 'thick' isn't very clever at all.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:31 pm

Tom_1992 wrote:
Optimistic wrote:
chunkster wrote:I would say that the booing had a positive effect in the fact that Witney probably layed into the players along the line of "if you don't get your fudgin arses into gear you are going to get me the sack, and I will take you down with me" :lol:


Possibly, that did cross my mind, but what a welcome for the new signings from the home fans. You only get one chance to make a good first impression and some of the home fans blew it. Probably the same ones which Cully mentioned on the Bury Thread:

'Finally, couldn't understand the chants of Whitney out on the opening day of the new season, we've got some thick fans'.

We always seem to have a hardcore of 'Manager Out' fans regardless of who the manager is. Unbelievable.


Another misconception. Lots of people who backed Smith during his worst moments are the loudest advocates for Whitney to go. Categorising everyone who wants Whitney gone as 'thick' isn't very clever at all.


Not my words Tom, Cully's words. I think he was referring more to the fact that it was the first game of the season. In fairness the new players deserve a chance to prove themselves and a couple of games is surely not long enough. From what I have seen so far Whitney has done well over the summer, do you agree?

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:17 pm

Optimistic wrote:
chunkster wrote:I would say that the booing had a positive effect in the fact that Witney probably layed into the players along the line of "if you don't get your fudgin arses into gear you are going to get me the sack, and I will take you down with me" :lol:


Possibly, that did cross my mind, but what a welcome for the new signings from the home fans. You only get one chance to make a good first impression and some of the home fans blew it. Probably the same ones which Cully mentioned on the Bury Thread:

'Finally, couldn't understand the chants of Whitney out on the opening day of the new season, we've got some thick fans'.

We always seem to have a hardcore of 'Manager Out' fans regardless of who the manager is. Unbelievable.


No you don't. That's just an assumption with evidence what so ever. You are absolutely incorrect.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:30 pm

Views from the away end on Saturday :) Includes our goals




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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:52 pm

Optimistic wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
Optimistic wrote:
chunkster wrote:I would say that the booing had a positive effect in the fact that Witney probably layed into the players along the line of "if you don't get your fudgin arses into gear you are going to get me the sack, and I will take you down with me" :lol:


Possibly, that did cross my mind, but what a welcome for the new signings from the home fans. You only get one chance to make a good first impression and some of the home fans blew it. Probably the same ones which Cully mentioned on the Bury Thread:

'Finally, couldn't understand the chants of Whitney out on the opening day of the new season, we've got some thick fans'.

We always seem to have a hardcore of 'Manager Out' fans regardless of who the manager is. Unbelievable.


Another misconception. Lots of people who backed Smith during his worst moments are the loudest advocates for Whitney to go. Categorising everyone who wants Whitney gone as 'thick' isn't very clever at all.


Not my words Tom, Cully's words. I think he was referring more to the fact that it was the first game of the season. In fairness the new players deserve a chance to prove themselves and a couple of games is surely not long enough. From what I have seen so far Whitney has done well over the summer, do you agree?


Like you say the signings haven't proved themselves as yet, but Devlin and Wilson look the best of the bunch. Whitney would've had hardly anything to do with Gillespie and I'm not convinced by Leahy at all.

The glaring lack of attacking signings is also an on-going concern, are flair players put off by Whitney's style combined with our lack of money? Previous signings have certainly signed with the 'style of play' being a factor - Oztumer especially. Do you think he would join us now? Not a chance.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:03 pm

Tom_1992 wrote:
Optimistic wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
Optimistic wrote:
chunkster wrote:I would say that the booing had a positive effect in the fact that Witney probably layed into the players along the line of "if you don't get your fudgin arses into gear you are going to get me the sack, and I will take you down with me" :lol:


Possibly, that did cross my mind, but what a welcome for the new signings from the home fans. You only get one chance to make a good first impression and some of the home fans blew it. Probably the same ones which Cully mentioned on the Bury Thread:

'Finally, couldn't understand the chants of Whitney out on the opening day of the new season, we've got some thick fans'.

We always seem to have a hardcore of 'Manager Out' fans regardless of who the manager is. Unbelievable.


Another misconception. Lots of people who backed Smith during his worst moments are the loudest advocates for Whitney to go. Categorising everyone who wants Whitney gone as 'thick' isn't very clever at all.


Not my words Tom, Cully's words. I think he was referring more to the fact that it was the first game of the season. In fairness the new players deserve a chance to prove themselves and a couple of games is surely not long enough. From what I have seen so far Whitney has done well over the summer, do you agree?


Like you say the signings haven't proved themselves as yet, but Devlin and Wilson look the best of the bunch. Whitney would've had hardly anything to do with Gillespie and I'm not convinced by Leahy at all.

The glaring lack of attacking signings is also an on-going concern, are flair players put off by Whitney's style combined with our lack of money? Previous signings have certainly signed with the 'style of play' being a factor - Oztumer especially. Do you think he would join us now? Not a chance.


Errr why's that? Cutler will have definitely had a large hand but that's not to say Whitney didn't too.

And what's Leahy done that's so bad? I think he's had one bad half in the 3 games I've seen him and played very well second half against Oldham. Set up Bakayoko and bombed forward seemingly non stop second half and I don't remember them taking him apart defensively.

No they are put off by money, simple as. We still play more grounded football than most of the division. If anything not having many big strong units means we have to play that way. People don't look at Oztumer, Jackson, Edwards, Chambers and Morris and think "what a team of hoofers" do they? What players say and what players do are two separate things. Oztumer signed because we were a top 3 side that offered him enough money and the former is why he wouldn't sign now. Style of play and all that is lip service. Offer footballers enough money, they won't turn it down.

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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:17 pm

[/quote]

Errr why's that? Cutler will have definitely had a large hand but that's not to say Whitney didn't too.

And what's Leahy done that's so bad? I think he's had one bad half in the 3 games I've seen him and played very well second half against Oldham. Set up Bakayoko and bombed forward seemingly non stop second half and I don't remember them taking him apart defensively.

No they are put off by money, simple as. We still play more grounded football than most of the division. If anything not having many big strong units means we have to play that way. People don't look at Oztumer, Jackson, Edwards, Chambers and Morris and think "what a team of hoofers" do they? What players say and what players do are two separate things. Oztumer signed because we were a top 3 side that offered him enough money and the former is why he wouldn't sign now. Style of play and all that is lip service. Offer footballers enough money, they won't turn it down.[/quote]

Oztumer signed because of the style of play and reputation that Smith built up - he simply would not have signed for Jon Whitney this summer.

I've also seen Leahy in all three of our competitive games, and the consensus with those who I've been at the games with is that he looks a bit slow for a wing back and got beat all too easily on both the inside and outside against Bury. Distribution also looked a bit shaky on Saturday - this would back up what some of the Falkirk fans were saying about him. Obviously it's early to judge, but Devlin looks the more impressive of the two so far.

I really hope Jon Whitney isn't signing our goalkeepers, that's Cutler's domain and I trust him 100% to get it right. Whitney might have the final say, but you can bet the research and groundwork is all done by Cutler.

With regards to style of play, it's obvious that there's been a change of approach - I even asked Dan Mole about this and he confirmed it at the fans focus meeting - and I actually have no problem with it as long as it's done in the right way. Direct football can still be exciting, unfortunately last season and so far this season - second half on Saturday apart - we have been long-ball and boring, which isn't a good combination.

Walsallone
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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:25 pm

To write players off after a couple of games is daft. It is also daft to say that after a couple we have signed some really good players. I have only seen the home game and I was impressed with all the new signings(as I posted earlier) but we need to see how things go over the next few weeks before coming to any firm conclusions. What I do like is the height and physicality we now have in our defence and if we can find a forward or two we MAY do much better than we all thought.

El_Nombre
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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:29 pm

Tom_1992 wrote:
Errr why's that? Cutler will have definitely had a large hand but that's not to say Whitney didn't too.

And what's Leahy done that's so bad? I think he's had one bad half in the 3 games I've seen him and played very well second half against Oldham. Set up Bakayoko and bombed forward seemingly non stop second half and I don't remember them taking him apart defensively.

No they are put off by money, simple as. We still play more grounded football than most of the division. If anything not having many big strong units means we have to play that way. People don't look at Oztumer, Jackson, Edwards, Chambers and Morris and think "what a team of hoofers" do they? What players say and what players do are two separate things. Oztumer signed because we were a top 3 side that offered him enough money and the former is why he wouldn't sign now. Style of play and all that is lip service. Offer footballers enough money, they won't turn it down.

Oztumer signed because of the style of play and reputation that Smith built up - he simply would not have signed for Jon Whitney this summer.

I've also seen Leahy in all three of our competitive games, and the consensus with those who I've been at the games with is that he looks a bit slow for a wing back and got beat all too easily on both the inside and outside against Bury. Distribution also looked a bit shaky on Saturday - this would back up what some of the Falkirk fans were saying about him. Obviously it's early to judge, but Devlin looks the more impressive of the two so far.

I really hope Jon Whitney isn't signing our goalkeepers, that's Cutler's domain and I trust him 100% to get it right. Whitney might have the final say, but you can bet the research and groundwork is all done by Cutler.

With regards to style of play, it's obvious that there's been a change of approach - I even asked Dan Mole about this and he confirmed it at the fans focus meeting - and I actually have no problem with it as long as it's done in the right way. Direct football can still be exciting, unfortunately last season and so far this season - second half on Saturday apart - we have been long-ball and boring, which isn't a good combination.


I agree he wouldn't have signed but that's purely because of where we finished. Literally nothing to do with style of play. I don't believe it to be that drastic a change that players would turn do good money, decent offers. No chance at all.

Being a wing back isn't just about pace. He's every bit as quick as McCarthy was last year and easily as quick as Laird. I admitted he had a bad half against Oldham but there was nothing wrong with his distribution second half and I didn't see any bad reviews from Falkirk fans, and even if there were that's a very dangerous thing to trust. Troy Deeney is fat and useless, remember? I wasn't actually at the Bury game I was referring to the Villa game in preseason, where he looked absolutely fine, I'll have to take your word for Bury.

I agree Devlin looks the better player but they are not in competition with each other, they are both on the same team. I don't see the relevance. That doesn't make Leahy poor.

I really hope the manager is signing all of our players personally. It's one of the things he's paid to do. If he just said "I trust you Neil" and sent him off to sign somebody then that's a pretty dangerous thing to do.

Boring yes, but long ball is very harsh considering the style of the division as a whole. I've listed the players we have in the final third, I can't seem them just being labelled by anybody as "long ball" players. If that's what Dan Mole said then he has about as much of an idea about football as you'd expect a board member that thinks you can replace a player with half the funds to do.
Last edited by El_Nombre on Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

El_Nombre
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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:31 pm

Walsallone wrote:To write players off after a couple of games is daft. It is also daft to say that after a couple we have signed some really good players. I have only seen the home game and I was impressed with all the new signings(as I posted earlier) but we need to see how things go over the next few weeks before coming to any firm conclusions. What I do like is the height and physicality we now have in our defence and if we can find a forward or two we MAY do much better than we all thought.


That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying Leahy is a world beater but to say he hasn't been convincing, considering I've seen a poor 45 minutes out of 270 decent to good ones, is something I can't agree with.

Tom_1992
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Re: Oldham Athletic, League One 12th August 3pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:43 pm

El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
Errr why's that? Cutler will have definitely had a large hand but that's not to say Whitney didn't too.

And what's Leahy done that's so bad? I think he's had one bad half in the 3 games I've seen him and played very well second half against Oldham. Set up Bakayoko and bombed forward seemingly non stop second half and I don't remember them taking him apart defensively.

No they are put off by money, simple as. We still play more grounded football than most of the division. If anything not having many big strong units means we have to play that way. People don't look at Oztumer, Jackson, Edwards, Chambers and Morris and think "what a team of hoofers" do they? What players say and what players do are two separate things. Oztumer signed because we were a top 3 side that offered him enough money and the former is why he wouldn't sign now. Style of play and all that is lip service. Offer footballers enough money, they won't turn it down.

Oztumer signed because of the style of play and reputation that Smith built up - he simply would not have signed for Jon Whitney this summer.

I've also seen Leahy in all three of our competitive games, and the consensus with those who I've been at the games with is that he looks a bit slow for a wing back and got beat all too easily on both the inside and outside against Bury. Distribution also looked a bit shaky on Saturday - this would back up what some of the Falkirk fans were saying about him. Obviously it's early to judge, but Devlin looks the more impressive of the two so far.

I really hope Jon Whitney isn't signing our goalkeepers, that's Cutler's domain and I trust him 100% to get it right. Whitney might have the final say, but you can bet the research and groundwork is all done by Cutler.

With regards to style of play, it's obvious that there's been a change of approach - I even asked Dan Mole about this and he confirmed it at the fans focus meeting - and I actually have no problem with it as long as it's done in the right way. Direct football can still be exciting, unfortunately last season and so far this season - second half on Saturday apart - we have been long-ball and boring, which isn't a good combination.


I agree he wouldn't have signed but that's purely because of where we finished. Literally nothing to do with style of play. I don't believe it to be that drastic a change that players would turn do good money, decent offers. No chance at all.

Being a wing back isn't just about pace. He's every bit as quick as McCarthy was last year and easily as quick as Laird. I admitted he had a bad half against Oldham but there was nothing wrong with his distribution second half and I didn't see any bad reviews from Falkirk fans, and even if there were that's a very dangerous thing to trust. Troy Deeney is fat and useless, remember? I wasn't actually at the Bury game I was referring to the Villa game in preseason, where he looked absolutely fine, I'll have to take your word for Bury.

I agree Devlin looks the better player but they are not in competition with each other, they are both on the same team. I don't see the relevance. That doesn't make Laird poor.

I really hope the manager is signing all of our players personally. It's one of the things he's paid to do. If he just said "I trust you Neil" and sent him off to sign somebody then that's a pretty dangerous thing to do.

Boring yes, but long ball is very harsh considering the style of the division as a whole. I've listed the players we have in the final third, I can't seem them just being labelled by anybody as "long ball" players. If that's what Dan Mole said then he has about as much of an idea about football as you'd expect a board member that thinks you can replace a player with half the funds to do.


Our style of play 100% had an impact on Oztumer's decision to join. He would've just watched Romaine Sawyers thrive in that role and earn a move to the Championship after playing as the axis in an attacking, dynamic and expansive team. What number 10 wouldn't want to get in on that action? It's also worth remembering that when Oztumer signed, a certain Tom Bradshaw was still on the books with many still believing that he would start 16/17 in a Saddlers shirt...

He's not as quick as McCarthy - who was our paciest player last season - and Laird only got used as a 'wing-back' once away to Fleetwood and the rest of the time he slotted in as a third CB so it's not fair to compare. Like I say it's early to judge, but watch the highlights of the Bury game gets turned way too easily for the second pen and generally struggled in that game. You list those players, and I agree that they're all technical(ish) footballers, which is why it's confusing as to why we've adopted the more direct approach when we don't really have the tools to implement it.

Smith managed to get us playing with the likes of Baxendale, Featherstone and Ashley Hemmings, whereas Jon Whitney couldn't even find a place in his team for Oztumer at times last season. Whitney clearly wants us to be more direct, we'll just have to see whether it works...

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