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Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Reports and reaction from the 2017-2018 season as Walsall finished 19th in League 1
El_Nombre
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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:56 am

I'm not going to argue with the people saying we need more players, we absolutely do, but we knew this before. I didn't get that from this fixture, you get it from just looking at the squad list.

But I have to laugh at the people calling this the ladies team or the under 21s. Yes there were 11 changes and one of them came from non league. The other 13 players used on the night were either there last season (when they absolutely walked our league), from Oxford who have come up and are fancied for the top half or already had championship/League one experience. I think there was another one that got relegated at Hartlepool, that was about it. This team would probably have a fair crack at our league this year.

3-2 is another loss to another good team. It's not good enough. But before the game, myself included, people were claiming 4-0, we are going to get hammered, we couldn't score if none of them turned up, blah blah blah. And carrying form over from a previous year is another joke stat by the way. Leicester had some good form for the first 5 games of last season if that's the case...

It wasn't a disgrace, disaster, shambles and on and on and on. It was a loss to a decent team where we were probably the better side for 80 minutes.

I'm far more interested and concerned with the game on Saturday. Means ten times more than this did.

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:09 am

El_Nombre wrote:I'm not going to argue with the people saying we need more players, we absolutely do, but we knew this before. I didn't get that from this fixture, you get it from just looking at the squad list.

But I have to laugh at the people calling this the ladies team or the under 21s. Yes there were 11 changes and one of them came from non league. The other 13 players used on the night were either there last season (when they absolutely walked our league), from Oxford who have come up and are fancied for the top half or already had championship/League one experience. I think there was another one that got relegated at Hartlepool, that was about it. This team would probably have a fair crack at our league this year.

3-2 is another loss to another good team. It's not good enough. But before the game, myself included, people were claiming 4-0, we are going to get hammered, we couldn't score if none of them turned up, blah blah blah. And carrying form over from a previous year is another joke stat by the way. Leicester had some good form for the first 5 games of last season if that's the case...

It wasn't a disgrace, disaster, shambles and on and on and on. It was a loss to a decent team where we were probably the better side for 80 minutes.

I'm far more interested and concerned with the game on Saturday. Means ten times more than this did.


Agreed.

It's another loss though, however it happened and adds another straw to the camel's back, so to speak.
It also allows people to justifiably highlight our ongoing lack of investment in the team and the general situation at the club.

We need a sustained run of success, starting with Oldham on Saturday. Here's hoping!

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:25 am

How was Oztumer last night?

I've had one or two nods that he is not very happy at the moment.

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:26 am

Sounds like after 74 minutes of physical foreplay during which they pummelled our box, they finally forced something in, albeit from a hot bouncing ball, palmed out into the throng after a powerful thrust.

The second seemed like our flanks parted a bit and they were able to slide balls through into the centre, one of which got through a gap and we were punished harshly as it was slid home from some distance out, a groping hand unable to get anywhere near it.

:(

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:36 am

El_Nombre wrote:I'm not going to argue with the people saying we need more players, we absolutely do, but we knew this before. I didn't get that from this fixture, you get it from just looking at the squad list.

But I have to laugh at the people calling this the ladies team or the under 21s. Yes there were 11 changes and one of them came from non league. The other 13 players used on the night were either there last season (when they absolutely walked our league), from Oxford who have come up and are fancied for the top half or already had championship/League one experience. I think there was another one that got relegated at Hartlepool, that was about it. This team would probably have a fair crack at our league this year.

3-2 is another loss to another good team. It's not good enough. But before the game, myself included, people were claiming 4-0, we are going to get hammered, we couldn't score if none of them turned up, blah blah blah. And carrying form over from a previous year is another joke stat by the way. Leicester had some good form for the first 5 games of last season if that's the case...

It wasn't a disgrace, disaster, shambles and on and on and on. It was a loss to a decent team where we were probably the better side for 80 minutes.

I'm far more interested and concerned with the game on Saturday. Means ten times more than this did.


Disclaimer. We weren't the better team for 80 minutes. Let's just clear that up.

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:40 am

Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:I'm not going to argue with the people saying we need more players, we absolutely do, but we knew this before. I didn't get that from this fixture, you get it from just looking at the squad list.

But I have to laugh at the people calling this the ladies team or the under 21s. Yes there were 11 changes and one of them came from non league. The other 13 players used on the night were either there last season (when they absolutely walked our league), from Oxford who have come up and are fancied for the top half or already had championship/League one experience. I think there was another one that got relegated at Hartlepool, that was about it. This team would probably have a fair crack at our league this year.

3-2 is another loss to another good team. It's not good enough. But before the game, myself included, people were claiming 4-0, we are going to get hammered, we couldn't score if none of them turned up, blah blah blah. And carrying form over from a previous year is another joke stat by the way. Leicester had some good form for the first 5 games of last season if that's the case...

It wasn't a disgrace, disaster, shambles and on and on and on. It was a loss to a decent team where we were probably the better side for 80 minutes.

I'm far more interested and concerned with the game on Saturday. Means ten times more than this did.


Disclaimer. We weren't the better team for 80 minutes. Let's just clear that up.



Disclaimer - Leicesters form going into their title winning season ... LWWWWLWWDW. Form from previous seasons can count for something El thingy.

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:41 am

Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:I'm not going to argue with the people saying we need more players, we absolutely do, but we knew this before. I didn't get that from this fixture, you get it from just looking at the squad list.

But I have to laugh at the people calling this the ladies team or the under 21s. Yes there were 11 changes and one of them came from non league. The other 13 players used on the night were either there last season (when they absolutely walked our league), from Oxford who have come up and are fancied for the top half or already had championship/League one experience. I think there was another one that got relegated at Hartlepool, that was about it. This team would probably have a fair crack at our league this year.

3-2 is another loss to another good team. It's not good enough. But before the game, myself included, people were claiming 4-0, we are going to get hammered, we couldn't score if none of them turned up, blah blah blah. And carrying form over from a previous year is another joke stat by the way. Leicester had some good form for the first 5 games of last season if that's the case...

It wasn't a disgrace, disaster, shambles and on and on and on. It was a loss to a decent team where we were probably the better side for 80 minutes.

I'm far more interested and concerned with the game on Saturday. Means ten times more than this did.


Disclaimer. We weren't the better team for 80 minutes. Let's just clear that up.


Some said we were, some haven't. It's not definitive and if that's your view fine but what I said still stands.

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:45 am

scott_powell wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:I'm not going to argue with the people saying we need more players, we absolutely do, but we knew this before. I didn't get that from this fixture, you get it from just looking at the squad list.

But I have to laugh at the people calling this the ladies team or the under 21s. Yes there were 11 changes and one of them came from non league. The other 13 players used on the night were either there last season (when they absolutely walked our league), from Oxford who have come up and are fancied for the top half or already had championship/League one experience. I think there was another one that got relegated at Hartlepool, that was about it. This team would probably have a fair crack at our league this year.

3-2 is another loss to another good team. It's not good enough. But before the game, myself included, people were claiming 4-0, we are going to get hammered, we couldn't score if none of them turned up, blah blah blah. And carrying form over from a previous year is another joke stat by the way. Leicester had some good form for the first 5 games of last season if that's the case...

It wasn't a disgrace, disaster, shambles and on and on and on. It was a loss to a decent team where we were probably the better side for 80 minutes.

I'm far more interested and concerned with the game on Saturday. Means ten times more than this did.


Disclaimer. We weren't the better team for 80 minutes. Let's just clear that up.



Disclaimer - Leicesters form going into their title winning season ... LWWWWLWWDW. Form from previous seasons can count for something El thingy.


I don't think it counts for anything. Teams are completely changed, some with different managers and different line ups, the leagues themselves will be at completely different standards. You can point to the form leading in to the title winning season, I can point to it in there title losing season. And there are probably a million other examples for either. This is just a feeling.

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:49 am

scott_powell wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:I'm not going to argue with the people saying we need more players, we absolutely do, but we knew this before. I didn't get that from this fixture, you get it from just looking at the squad list.

But I have to laugh at the people calling this the ladies team or the under 21s. Yes there were 11 changes and one of them came from non league. The other 13 players used on the night were either there last season (when they absolutely walked our league), from Oxford who have come up and are fancied for the top half or already had championship/League one experience. I think there was another one that got relegated at Hartlepool, that was about it. This team would probably have a fair crack at our league this year.

3-2 is another loss to another good team. It's not good enough. But before the game, myself included, people were claiming 4-0, we are going to get hammered, we couldn't score if none of them turned up, blah blah blah. And carrying form over from a previous year is another joke stat by the way. Leicester had some good form for the first 5 games of last season if that's the case...

It wasn't a disgrace, disaster, shambles and on and on and on. It was a loss to a decent team where we were probably the better side for 80 minutes.

I'm far more interested and concerned with the game on Saturday. Means ten times more than this did.


Disclaimer. We weren't the better team for 80 minutes. Let's just clear that up.



Disclaimer - Leicesters form going into their title winning season ... LWWWWLWWDW. Form from previous seasons can count for something El thingy.


Also, how is form carrying over a 'joke stat' if the performances and results are exactly the same with no evidence of development in the style or tactics of the team?

Going even further back, you could see the cracks in Whitney's management in his spell at the end of 15/16. Look at the games we lost under his management in that spell, Oldham, Sheffield United, Bradford & Barnsley. All against teams with decent managers/players, two featured the same 3 goal blitz that we saw last night and each of those defeats could be traced to Whitney's tactics or selection - and that was with the best squad of players we've had for a very long time. Guess what, we're seeing the exact same mistakes now only this time he's assembled a much weaker squad.

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:50 am

El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:I'm not going to argue with the people saying we need more players, we absolutely do, but we knew this before. I didn't get that from this fixture, you get it from just looking at the squad list.

But I have to laugh at the people calling this the ladies team or the under 21s. Yes there were 11 changes and one of them came from non league. The other 13 players used on the night were either there last season (when they absolutely walked our league), from Oxford who have come up and are fancied for the top half or already had championship/League one experience. I think there was another one that got relegated at Hartlepool, that was about it. This team would probably have a fair crack at our league this year.

3-2 is another loss to another good team. It's not good enough. But before the game, myself included, people were claiming 4-0, we are going to get hammered, we couldn't score if none of them turned up, blah blah blah. And carrying form over from a previous year is another joke stat by the way. Leicester had some good form for the first 5 games of last season if that's the case...

It wasn't a disgrace, disaster, shambles and on and on and on. It was a loss to a decent team where we were probably the better side for 80 minutes.

I'm far more interested and concerned with the game on Saturday. Means ten times more than this did.


Disclaimer. We weren't the better team for 80 minutes. Let's just clear that up.


Some said we were, some haven't. It's not definitive and if that's your view fine but what I said still stands.


We played okay, we weren't the better team. It's very simple.

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:58 am

Tom_1992 wrote:
scott_powell wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:I'm not going to argue with the people saying we need more players, we absolutely do, but we knew this before. I didn't get that from this fixture, you get it from just looking at the squad list.

But I have to laugh at the people calling this the ladies team or the under 21s. Yes there were 11 changes and one of them came from non league. The other 13 players used on the night were either there last season (when they absolutely walked our league), from Oxford who have come up and are fancied for the top half or already had championship/League one experience. I think there was another one that got relegated at Hartlepool, that was about it. This team would probably have a fair crack at our league this year.

3-2 is another loss to another good team. It's not good enough. But before the game, myself included, people were claiming 4-0, we are going to get hammered, we couldn't score if none of them turned up, blah blah blah. And carrying form over from a previous year is another joke stat by the way. Leicester had some good form for the first 5 games of last season if that's the case...

It wasn't a disgrace, disaster, shambles and on and on and on. It was a loss to a decent team where we were probably the better side for 80 minutes.

I'm far more interested and concerned with the game on Saturday. Means ten times more than this did.


Disclaimer. We weren't the better team for 80 minutes. Let's just clear that up.



Disclaimer - Leicesters form going into their title winning season ... LWWWWLWWDW. Form from previous seasons can count for something El thingy.


Also, how is form carrying over a 'joke stat' if the performances and results are exactly the same with no evidence of development in the style or tactics of the team?

Going even further back, you could see the cracks in Whitney's management in his spell at the end of 15/16. Look at the games we lost under his management in that spell, Oldham, Sheffield United, Bradford & Barnsley. All against teams with decent managers/players, two featured the same 3 goal blitz that we saw last night and each of those defeats could be traced to Whitney's tactics or selection - and that was with the best squad of players we've had for a very long time. Guess what, we're seeing the exact same mistakes now only this time he's assembled a much weaker squad.


I'll answer both your replies in one save clogging up the forum.

Because, as I answered above, so much changes in a summer that it's a completely different league every year. There are whole new teams even with different managers. Signings haven't even bedded in yet, for everybody, not just us. Games are talent into account where you are fighting for relegation or promotion, or teams aren't fighting for anything and it throws up strange results. "Form" for me at this time of the year is 2 games. We've lost them both and that isn't good enough. But last year is completely irrelevant to form.

As for going even further back, I'm not defending Whitney. The cracks started to show when he got panned in the play offs using a team that had finished 3rd for me.

It's not "simple" though is it? I've seen games where Barcelona have camped on the half way line for 90 minutes but every time the other team gets the ball it's panic stations. Who was the better team there? The one that kept the ball forever or the one that looked like scoring. You could level that at Arsenal whenever they fail to turn up to a big strong defensive team. There are conflicting reports and that says it all.

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:07 pm

Tom_1992 wrote:
scott_powell wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:I'm not going to argue with the people saying we need more players, we absolutely do, but we knew this before. I didn't get that from this fixture, you get it from just looking at the squad list.

But I have to laugh at the people calling this the ladies team or the under 21s. Yes there were 11 changes and one of them came from non league. The other 13 players used on the night were either there last season (when they absolutely walked our league), from Oxford who have come up and are fancied for the top half or already had championship/League one experience. I think there was another one that got relegated at Hartlepool, that was about it. This team would probably have a fair crack at our league this year.

3-2 is another loss to another good team. It's not good enough. But before the game, myself included, people were claiming 4-0, we are going to get hammered, we couldn't score if none of them turned up, blah blah blah. And carrying form over from a previous year is another joke stat by the way. Leicester had some good form for the first 5 games of last season if that's the case...

It wasn't a disgrace, disaster, shambles and on and on and on. It was a loss to a decent team where we were probably the better side for 80 minutes.

I'm far more interested and concerned with the game on Saturday. Means ten times more than this did.


Disclaimer. We weren't the better team for 80 minutes. Let's just clear that up.



Disclaimer - Leicesters form going into their title winning season ... LWWWWLWWDW. Form from previous seasons can count for something El thingy.


Also, how is form carrying over a 'joke stat' if the performances and results are exactly the same with no evidence of development in the style or tactics of the team?

Going even further back, you could see the cracks in Whitney's management in his spell at the end of 15/16. Look at the games we lost under his management in that spell, Oldham, Sheffield United, Bradford & Barnsley. All against teams with decent managers/players, two featured the same 3 goal blitz that we saw last night and each of those defeats could be traced to Whitney's tactics or selection - and that was with the best squad of players we've had for a very long time. Guess what, we're seeing the exact same mistakes now only this time he's assembled a much weaker squad.


A bit like the inclusion of Flanagan in the 2-0 defeat at, funnily enough, Bramall Lane against a side with nothing to play for. That's before he was hastily removed at half time I seem to remember. Him surging back to fitness is one of our secret weapons this season isn't it? :roll:

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:12 pm

El_Nombre wrote:
Because, as I answered above, so much changes in a summer that it's a completely different league every year. There are whole new teams even with different managers. Signings haven't even bedded in yet, for everybody, not just us. Games are talent into account where you are fighting for relegation or promotion, or teams aren't fighting for anything and it throws up strange results. "Form" for me at this time of the year is 2 games. We've lost them both and that isn't good enough. But last year is completely irrelevant to form.

As for going even further back, I'm not defending Whitney. The cracks started to show when he got panned in the play offs using a team that had finished 3rd for me.

It's not "simple" though is it? I've seen games where Barcelona have camped on the half way line for 90 minutes but every time the other team gets the ball it's panic stations. Who was the better team there? The one that kept the ball forever or the one that looked like scoring. You could level that at Arsenal whenever they fail to turn up to a big strong defensive team. There are conflicting reports and that says it all.


Dunno, I was at Bury and I was keen to see what teeth we had up front. Did we even register a shot on target?
This has been highlighted by fans for weeks now, so a little concerning that nothing has been done about it.

We finished last season abjectly, miserably, so yes, this IS, or at least should be in the mind of everyone at the club. We need to see an improvement early this season. Only then can it be wiped away and forgotten about as a bad spell. So roll on three wins in the midst of an unbeaten run and take it from there.

Losing games is dragging on the memory of last season, reminding people of short-comings that appear unfixed.

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:14 pm

What formation did we play?

4-4-1-1

3-5-1-1

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:16 pm

I thought I'd erased that Flanagan performance out of my mind saddlersjse!! I'd go as far as saying that that performance was possibly the worst I have ever seen from a midfielder since I began following Walsall (Late 90's)
Flanagan is stealing a living.

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:19 pm

Enniskillen wrote:What formation did we play?

4-4-1-1

3-5-1-1


3-5-1-1

Devlin at CB, Kinsella RWB and Leahy LWB. Morris, Chambers and Edwards as the central three.

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:21 pm

El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
scott_powell wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:I'm not going to argue with the people saying we need more players, we absolutely do, but we knew this before. I didn't get that from this fixture, you get it from just looking at the squad list.

But I have to laugh at the people calling this the ladies team or the under 21s. Yes there were 11 changes and one of them came from non league. The other 13 players used on the night were either there last season (when they absolutely walked our league), from Oxford who have come up and are fancied for the top half or already had championship/League one experience. I think there was another one that got relegated at Hartlepool, that was about it. This team would probably have a fair crack at our league this year.

3-2 is another loss to another good team. It's not good enough. But before the game, myself included, people were claiming 4-0, we are going to get hammered, we couldn't score if none of them turned up, blah blah blah. And carrying form over from a previous year is another joke stat by the way. Leicester had some good form for the first 5 games of last season if that's the case...

It wasn't a disgrace, disaster, shambles and on and on and on. It was a loss to a decent team where we were probably the better side for 80 minutes.

I'm far more interested and concerned with the game on Saturday. Means ten times more than this did.


Disclaimer. We weren't the better team for 80 minutes. Let's just clear that up.



Disclaimer - Leicesters form going into their title winning season ... LWWWWLWWDW. Form from previous seasons can count for something El thingy.


Also, how is form carrying over a 'joke stat' if the performances and results are exactly the same with no evidence of development in the style or tactics of the team?

Going even further back, you could see the cracks in Whitney's management in his spell at the end of 15/16. Look at the games we lost under his management in that spell, Oldham, Sheffield United, Bradford & Barnsley. All against teams with decent managers/players, two featured the same 3 goal blitz that we saw last night and each of those defeats could be traced to Whitney's tactics or selection - and that was with the best squad of players we've had for a very long time. Guess what, we're seeing the exact same mistakes now only this time he's assembled a much weaker squad.


I'll answer both your replies in one save clogging up the forum.

Because, as I answered above, so much changes in a summer that it's a completely different league every year. There are whole new teams even with different managers. Signings haven't even bedded in yet, for everybody, not just us. Games are talent into account where you are fighting for relegation or promotion, or teams aren't fighting for anything and it throws up strange results. "Form" for me at this time of the year is 2 games. We've lost them both and that isn't good enough. But last year is completely irrelevant to form.

As for going even further back, I'm not defending Whitney. The cracks started to show when he got panned in the play offs using a team that had finished 3rd for me.

It's not "simple" though is it? I've seen games where Barcelona have camped on the half way line for 90 minutes but every time the other team gets the ball it's panic stations. Who was the better team there? The one that kept the ball forever or the one that looked like scoring. You could level that at Arsenal whenever they fail to turn up to a big strong defensive team. There are conflicting reports and that says it all.


'So much changes in a summer.' That's my whole point, things may have moved on for the 23 other teams in the division, but we're sat here making the same mistakes, playing the same boring football and still capitulating under a slight bit of pressure. It's important to look back to see if we're learned from past mistakes, judging by these two games we haven't and that's what's most concerning.

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:22 pm

It wasn't too bad last night, wouldn't say we were unlucky to lose but we certainly didn't play any worse than Sheff Utd.

Some of our play was neat, and Bakayoko lead the line much better than the last game I saw him start (Bolton away), challenged in the air well, and took his goal well too. Hopefully he can keep it up, and get maybe 4/5 more goals this year than last.

Joe Edwards was my man of the match. good defensively in the first half, and probably the best of the 3 midfielders going forward too. As someone said he had a hell of a shot blocked by a defender, which I don't think knew much about it.

Chambers had a poor game I thought, gave the ball away more than he usually does, and Morris too, although cane into it a bit more towards the end.

I thought Guthrie was impressive too, close second for Motm. Roberts looked shaky at the start but also got better, won a few big headers at crosses or corners too, but shouldn't be relied on for the first team regularly just yet if possible. Devlin looked steady, and Leahy and Kinsella were fairly quiet games. Gillespie has better kicking than Etherisge, but didn't seem confident with crosses, which is something for Cutler to improve.

It was never backs against the wall, and we weren't chasing shadows around the pitch, but you knew when we conceded we would probably let another in. Kouyhar had a couple of decent runs, one of which resulted in the penalty and the other a good cross.

Saw the highlights when I got back in, and didn't realise that 2 of their goals were deflected. Obviously disappointing to be pup first round again but there were some signs of encouragement, some neat play at times and pretty solid at the back apart from a 15 minute spell.

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:28 pm

El_Nombre wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
scott_powell wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:I'm not going to argue with the people saying we need more players, we absolutely do, but we knew this before. I didn't get that from this fixture, you get it from just looking at the squad list.

But I have to laugh at the people calling this the ladies team or the under 21s. Yes there were 11 changes and one of them came from non league. The other 13 players used on the night were either there last season (when they absolutely walked our league), from Oxford who have come up and are fancied for the top half or already had championship/League one experience. I think there was another one that got relegated at Hartlepool, that was about it. This team would probably have a fair crack at our league this year.

3-2 is another loss to another good team. It's not good enough. But before the game, myself included, people were claiming 4-0, we are going to get hammered, we couldn't score if none of them turned up, blah blah blah. And carrying form over from a previous year is another joke stat by the way. Leicester had some good form for the first 5 games of last season if that's the case...

It wasn't a disgrace, disaster, shambles and on and on and on. It was a loss to a decent team where we were probably the better side for 80 minutes.

I'm far more interested and concerned with the game on Saturday. Means ten times more than this did.


Disclaimer. We weren't the better team for 80 minutes. Let's just clear that up.



Disclaimer - Leicesters form going into their title winning season ... LWWWWLWWDW. Form from previous seasons can count for something El thingy.


Also, how is form carrying over a 'joke stat' if the performances and results are exactly the same with no evidence of development in the style or tactics of the team?

Going even further back, you could see the cracks in Whitney's management in his spell at the end of 15/16. Look at the games we lost under his management in that spell, Oldham, Sheffield United, Bradford & Barnsley. All against teams with decent managers/players, two featured the same 3 goal blitz that we saw last night and each of those defeats could be traced to Whitney's tactics or selection - and that was with the best squad of players we've had for a very long time. Guess what, we're seeing the exact same mistakes now only this time he's assembled a much weaker squad.


I'll answer both your replies in one save clogging up the forum.

Because, as I answered above, so much changes in a summer that it's a completely different league every year. There are whole new teams even with different managers. Signings haven't even bedded in yet, for everybody, not just us. Games are talent into account where you are fighting for relegation or promotion, or teams aren't fighting for anything and it throws up strange results. "Form" for me at this time of the year is 2 games. We've lost them both and that isn't good enough. But last year is completely irrelevant to form.

As for going even further back, I'm not defending Whitney. The cracks started to show when he got panned in the play offs using a team that had finished 3rd for me.

It's not "simple" though is it? I've seen games where Barcelona have camped on the half way line for 90 minutes but every time the other team gets the ball it's panic stations. Who was the better team there? The one that kept the ball forever or the one that looked like scoring. You could level that at Arsenal whenever they fail to turn up to a big strong defensive team. There are conflicting reports and that says it all.


There may be numerous variable factors at play. The two unchanging factors are the ones I'm interested in: Walsall & lost games.

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:40 pm

Enniskillen wrote:What formation did we play?

4-4-1-1

3-5-1-1


Both! Persisted with Kinsella and Leahy as wingbacks until Kouhyar came on for the former. They were being pinned back too much on defensive duties though so didn't see enough of them going forward. Devlin looked a better bet for the role when he switched from CB to RB on Kinsella's removal - he was actually running with the ball and taking their blokes on (as did the raw but eager Kouhyar).

So 2 experimental formations/personnel (to add to another at Bury) - will be interesting to see how Whitney's first choice backline fares on Saturday when all his new signings are available.

The main issue though is creativity - the midfield are not making anywhere near enough chances. Chambers is great at breaking up play and protecting the backline but he doesn't drive the team forward. Edwards and Morris are decent enough but kept getting bogged down in an overcrowded central third, and in both games so far Ozzie has been dropping far to deep to get on the ball. And if we're persisting with just the 1 up top - are either of Jackson or Bakayoko up to that lone striker role?

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:53 pm

SaigonSaddler wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Because, as I answered above, so much changes in a summer that it's a completely different league every year. There are whole new teams even with different managers. Signings haven't even bedded in yet, for everybody, not just us. Games are talent into account where you are fighting for relegation or promotion, or teams aren't fighting for anything and it throws up strange results. "Form" for me at this time of the year is 2 games. We've lost them both and that isn't good enough. But last year is completely irrelevant to form.

As for going even further back, I'm not defending Whitney. The cracks started to show when he got panned in the play offs using a team that had finished 3rd for me.

It's not "simple" though is it? I've seen games where Barcelona have camped on the half way line for 90 minutes but every time the other team gets the ball it's panic stations. Who was the better team there? The one that kept the ball forever or the one that looked like scoring. You could level that at Arsenal whenever they fail to turn up to a big strong defensive team. There are conflicting reports and that says it all.


Dunno, I was at Bury and I was keen to see what teeth we had up front. Did we even register a shot on target?
This has been highlighted by fans for weeks now, so a little concerning that nothing has been done about it.

We finished last season abjectly, miserably, so yes, this IS, or at least should be in the mind of everyone at the club. We need to see an improvement early this season. Only then can it be wiped away and forgotten about as a bad spell. So roll on three wins in the midst of an unbeaten run and take it from there.

Losing games is dragging on the memory of last season, reminding people of short-comings that appear unfixed.


But that's not what I'm suggesting. It absolutely should not be forgotten, and absolutely should go against Whitney.

I just don't think form is carried over. That's not to say those results don't matter, it's to say the don't effect how the team is playing at the moment. Bad results now are through poor preparation during the summer, not a bad run of form.

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:28 pm

El_Nombre wrote:
SaigonSaddler wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Because, as I answered above, so much changes in a summer that it's a completely different league every year. There are whole new teams even with different managers. Signings haven't even bedded in yet, for everybody, not just us. Games are talent into account where you are fighting for relegation or promotion, or teams aren't fighting for anything and it throws up strange results. "Form" for me at this time of the year is 2 games. We've lost them both and that isn't good enough. But last year is completely irrelevant to form.

As for going even further back, I'm not defending Whitney. The cracks started to show when he got panned in the play offs using a team that had finished 3rd for me.

It's not "simple" though is it? I've seen games where Barcelona have camped on the half way line for 90 minutes but every time the other team gets the ball it's panic stations. Who was the better team there? The one that kept the ball forever or the one that looked like scoring. You could level that at Arsenal whenever they fail to turn up to a big strong defensive team. There are conflicting reports and that says it all.


Dunno, I was at Bury and I was keen to see what teeth we had up front. Did we even register a shot on target?
This has been highlighted by fans for weeks now, so a little concerning that nothing has been done about it.

We finished last season abjectly, miserably, so yes, this IS, or at least should be in the mind of everyone at the club. We need to see an improvement early this season. Only then can it be wiped away and forgotten about as a bad spell. So roll on three wins in the midst of an unbeaten run and take it from there.

Losing games is dragging on the memory of last season, reminding people of short-comings that appear unfixed.


But that's not what I'm suggesting. It absolutely should not be forgotten, and absolutely should go against Whitney.

I just don't think form is carried over. That's not to say those results don't matter, it's to say the don't effect how the team is playing at the moment. Bad results now are through poor preparation during the summer, not a bad run of form.



Poor preparation?!

BUT WE WENT TO BOOTCAMP!!!

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:35 pm

scott_powell wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
SaigonSaddler wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Because, as I answered above, so much changes in a summer that it's a completely different league every year. There are whole new teams even with different managers. Signings haven't even bedded in yet, for everybody, not just us. Games are talent into account where you are fighting for relegation or promotion, or teams aren't fighting for anything and it throws up strange results. "Form" for me at this time of the year is 2 games. We've lost them both and that isn't good enough. But last year is completely irrelevant to form.

As for going even further back, I'm not defending Whitney. The cracks started to show when he got panned in the play offs using a team that had finished 3rd for me.

It's not "simple" though is it? I've seen games where Barcelona have camped on the half way line for 90 minutes but every time the other team gets the ball it's panic stations. Who was the better team there? The one that kept the ball forever or the one that looked like scoring. You could level that at Arsenal whenever they fail to turn up to a big strong defensive team. There are conflicting reports and that says it all.


Dunno, I was at Bury and I was keen to see what teeth we had up front. Did we even register a shot on target?
This has been highlighted by fans for weeks now, so a little concerning that nothing has been done about it.

We finished last season abjectly, miserably, so yes, this IS, or at least should be in the mind of everyone at the club. We need to see an improvement early this season. Only then can it be wiped away and forgotten about as a bad spell. So roll on three wins in the midst of an unbeaten run and take it from there.

Losing games is dragging on the memory of last season, reminding people of short-comings that appear unfixed.


But that's not what I'm suggesting. It absolutely should not be forgotten, and absolutely should go against Whitney.

I just don't think form is carried over. That's not to say those results don't matter, it's to say the don't effect how the team is playing at the moment. Bad results now are through poor preparation during the summer, not a bad run of form.



Poor preparation?!

BUT WE WENT TO BOOTCAMP!!!


Haha, as you well know, I fully support that decision. It's the other 28 days of July that worry me...

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:43 pm

It seems simple to me (according to my knowledgeable informant).
So, simples:
we play well for the first half
the opposition manager susses us out and re-organises/enthuses his team at half time (or shortly after)
we have no answering strategy/Plan B
we lose
simples.
Is this too simple?
:?

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:53 pm

SWS11 wrote:It seems simple to me (according to my knowledgeable informant).
So, simples:
we play well for the first half
the opposition manager susses us out and re-organises/enthuses his team at half time (or shortly after)
we have no answering strategy/Plan B
we lose
simples.
Is this too simple?
:?


Not at all. You're bang on.


It's because they have managers and we have a fudge Physio

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Re: Sheffield Utd (A) Carabao Cup, Wed 9 Aug, 7.45pm

Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:10 pm

16 mins from Leicester City at home ... :|

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