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Brexit Breakfast

The place for all general topics not related to the Saddlers, plus the ever-popular Prediction League. Keep it fun.
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Manchester Saddler
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Brexit Breakfast

Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:02 pm

So - let's talk Brexit then.

:D

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:18 pm

If it's breakfast, it should be breggsit...

swampysaddler
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:52 pm

Just in case you missed it on the Trump thread I will repeat it here for you Manchester.

I despair I really do.
Where is this financial crash we was promised last June ?
Surely if we are going into recession and all of us will be on the verge of homelessness as promised last June (as we have been since last June but it hasn't happened yet !!!) we shouldn't be making trade deals
How very dare them. Didn't they get informed Brexit would be the death of this country.
All the government had to do was read Manchester's opinions and assumptions on Brexit (without offering any evidence) and they would have realized all the sore losers remainers were right, WE ARE DOOMED.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42377177

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chunkster
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:56 pm

I really am sick of it now tbh, i honestly don't think we are getting what we voted for :|

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Manchester Saddler
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:18 pm

Given that there were only two choices - leave or remain - it looks like only remainers aren't getting what they voted for at the moment.

I don't recall anything on the ballot paper about immigration, leaving the single market, not paying a divorce bill - etc.

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chunkster
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:30 pm

Manchester Saddler wrote:Given that there were only two choices - leave or remain - it looks like only remainers aren't getting what they voted for at the moment.

I don't recall anything on the ballot paper about immigration, leaving the single market, not paying a divorce bill - etc.
At the moment there seems to be only one winner and that is the EU :|And that is the reason i voted out in the first place, because i hate everything that they stand for :| :|

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:40 pm

chunkster wrote:
Manchester Saddler wrote:Given that there were only two choices - leave or remain - it looks like only remainers aren't getting what they voted for at the moment.

I don't recall anything on the ballot paper about immigration, leaving the single market, not paying a divorce bill - etc.
At the moment there seems to be only one winner and that is the EU :|And that is the reason i voted out in the first place, because i hate everything that they stand for :| :|


I disagree - so you can imagine how I feel about it. :D

To be fair - did you honestly think that the EU, consisting of a massive 27 countries, wouldn't be in the stronger bargaining position?

Brexiteers were warned about this from the start.

You are frustrated but I am absolutely furious - STILL.

:D

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:41 pm

chunkster wrote:
Manchester Saddler wrote:Given that there were only two choices - leave or remain - it looks like only remainers aren't getting what they voted for at the moment.

I don't recall anything on the ballot paper about immigration, leaving the single market, not paying a divorce bill - etc.
At the moment there seems to be only one winner and that is the EU :|And that is the reason i voted out in the first place, because i hate everything that they stand for :| :|

Everything? What has the EU ever done for you, apart from provide peace in Europe, tariff-free trade, protection for European industries, visa-free travel, human rights protection, workers rights protection, a massive trade negotiating bloc, elected European assembly, Opportunity to study abroad, or get U.K. Research paid for, cleaner air, cheaper wine, lower mobile roaming charges.

Nothing. The people's popular front of little Britain was right!

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SaigonSaddler
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:44 pm

I don't think we ever quite got over the straight bananas did we?

:D

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Manchester Saddler
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:46 pm

swampysaddler wrote:Just in case you missed it on the Trump thread I will repeat it here for you Manchester.

I despair I really do.
Where is this financial crash we was promised last June ?
Surely if we are going into recession and all of us will be on the verge of homelessness as promised last June (as we have been since last June but it hasn't happened yet !!!) we shouldn't be making trade deals
How very dare them. Didn't they get informed Brexit would be the death of this country.
All the government had to do was read Manchester's opinions and assumptions on Brexit (without offering any evidence) and they would have realized all the sore losers remainers were right, WE ARE DOOMED.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42377177


No - I didn't see it. Thanks for reposting. :D

The "financial crash" is slowly happening. It is like watching a slow motion car crash. You must have seen Inception where the van is falling really slowly off the bridge? That's how this is playing out.

I keep saying, the evidence is there - falling pound, rising inflation, stunted growth, economy being squeezed. While we are still in the EU we will not feel the full effects. Its in the news every day,and in the broadsheet newspapers.

All that will change - you will see (assuming we still leave the EU and the Admins haven't deleted this thread like they did the other one :( ).

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:32 pm

Manchester Saddler wrote:Given that there were only two choices - leave or remain - it looks like only remainers aren't getting what they voted for at the moment.

I don't recall anything on the ballot paper about immigration, leaving the single market, not paying a divorce bill - etc.


This exactly.
2 boxes to choose from, Remain or Leave.
When all the votes were counted and verified the winning option was LEAVE.
There ends the argument, in the majority of people who voted (even remainers), as to whether we stay as part of the EU or we go it alone.
Would we still be hearing about it in the media, or on here for that matter, if the tables had been turned ? No.
Last June it would have been said "there we go the country have spoken".
Mr David (I jump ship when I don't get my own way) Cameron would still be PM (with poisonous Osbourne as his lacky), we would still be bending over backwards to Brussels (which in a way we still are with Teresa the Appeaser in charge) and the hideous referendum wouldn't be mentioned again.
Fortunately enough sane people voted Leave and THAT is the final result.

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:35 pm

Manchester Saddler wrote:
swampysaddler wrote:Just in case you missed it on the Trump thread I will repeat it here for you Manchester.

I despair I really do.
Where is this financial crash we was promised last June ?
Surely if we are going into recession and all of us will be on the verge of homelessness as promised last June (as we have been since last June but it hasn't happened yet !!!) we shouldn't be making trade deals
How very dare them. Didn't they get informed Brexit would be the death of this country.
All the government had to do was read Manchester's opinions and assumptions on Brexit (without offering any evidence) and they would have realized all the sore losers remainers were right, WE ARE DOOMED.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42377177


No - I didn't see it. Thanks for reposting. :D

The "financial crash" is slowly happening. It is like watching a slow motion car crash. You must have seen Inception where the van is falling really slowly off the bridge? That's how this is playing out.

I keep saying, the evidence is there - falling pound, rising inflation, stunted growth, economy being squeezed. While we are still in the EU we will not feel the full effects. Its in the news every day,and in the broadsheet newspapers.

All that will change - you will see (assuming we still leave the EU and the Admins haven't deleted this thread like they did the other one :( ).


Of course it is that's why the Chinese are investing billions.

But never provide any, just attempt (very poorly as well) at preaching doom and gloom about Brexit

I have been hearing this since June last year, getting a bit tiresome now don't you think !

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Manchester Saddler
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:58 pm

But Swampy, i and others have posted links that support the decline of the economy. Are you actually reading them?

It is hard evidence written down by journalists and supported by economists and experts.

Are you in denial or something?

Regarding the referendum (and elections in general), people change their minds. I know Brexiteers who HAVE changed their minds based on the state of the economy, the mess that the Conservatives are making and the fact that the divorce is going the way that all of the so-called doom-mongerers predicted (a huge divorce bill, the EU flexing its considerable muscles and backing us into a corner etc.).

We have a general election every so often and people change their minds! People change their minds ALL THE TIME.

The lies told in the referendum campaign from the Leave side are now being shown to be just that - lies! There is so much evidence to replace the speculation.

The referendum was NEVER cited as a "once in a generation" vote.

That's why we need to look at it again as a nation, given the way the so-called economic negotiations are going and the bleak outlook for the future of our country (that more and more experts are beginning to agree with).

You seem to have a blindspot when it comes to the evidence, mate. Check the links.

And I know you can't give me a single positive about Brexit.

I am open to a persuasive argument that Brexit might be a good thing.

So persuade me ...

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:34 am

Manchester Saddler wrote:But Swampy, i and others have posted links that support the decline of the economy. Are you actually reading them?

It is hard evidence written down by journalists and supported by economists and experts.

Are you in denial or something?

Regarding the referendum (and elections in general), people change their minds. I know Brexiteers who HAVE changed their minds based on the state of the economy, the mess that the Conservatives are making and the fact that the divorce is going the way that all of the so-called doom-mongerers predicted (a huge divorce bill, the EU flexing its considerable muscles and backing us into a corner etc.).

We have a general election every so often and people change their minds! People change their minds ALL THE TIME.

The lies told in the referendum campaign from the Leave side are now being shown to be just that - lies! There is so much evidence to replace the speculation.

The referendum was NEVER cited as a "once in a generation" vote.

That's why we need to look at it again as a nation, given the way the so-called economic negotiations are going and the bleak outlook for the future of our country (that more and more experts are beginning to agree with).

You seem to have a blindspot when it comes to the evidence, mate. Check the links.

And I know you can't give me a single positive about Brexit.

I am open to a persuasive argument that Brexit might be a good thing.

So persuade me ...


We go back to "opinions". It is their opinion, no recession as yet 18 months after the event.
And remain never told a single porky during the campaign ? That's a bit like Labour all sing from the same hymn sheet regarding Brexit, which we both know is not true.
The then PM, Mr Cameron, preached that he would fulfill the nations wishes whatever the result. What happened ? He went off sulking to write his memories because he was arrogant enough to think it was forgone Remain would be victorious. Where is his mouthpiece Osbourne (the main culprit for preaching recession and doom and gloom) now ? Oh that's right, his arrogance has resulted in him working at a London rag.


Obviously you don't see the Chinese investing billions as a positive, this is in spite of us leaving.
Would this deal have happened if we was remaining ? I don't know, same as you don't, but considering the doom and gloom and Armageddon preached in the build up to last June I would say that it is a slap in the face to remaining.
EU scrutinising the deal every step of the way, no thank you.

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:50 am

Only thing that this brexit breakfast is serving up is a pig's ear!

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:23 am

How boring is Manchester saddler!

:|

YAWN

Despite Manchester saddlers obsession with the right wing press, he has been completely taken in by the left wing media and social media. Totally unable to formulate his own opinions, regurgitating anything negative by like minded remainers, that comes his way.

Absolutely DESPERATE for Brexit to fail.

Copy and repeat and repeat and repeat.

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:26 am

swampysaddler wrote: We go back to "opinions". It is their opinion, no recession as yet 18 months after the event.
And remain never told a single porky during the campaign ? That's a bit like Labour all sing from the same hymn sheet regarding Brexit, which we both know is not true.
The then PM, Mr Cameron, preached that he would fulfill the nations wishes whatever the result. What happened ? He went off sulking to write his memories because he was arrogant enough to think it was forgone Remain would be victorious. Where is his mouthpiece Osbourne (the main culprit for preaching recession and doom and gloom) now ? Oh that's right, his arrogance has resulted in him working at a London rag.


Obviously you don't see the Chinese investing billions as a positive, this is in spite of us leaving.
Would this deal have happened if we was remaining ? I don't know, same as you don't, but considering the doom and gloom and Armageddon preached in the build up to last June I would say that it is a slap in the face to remaining.
EU scrutinising the deal every step of the way, no thank you.


There are opinions and there are facts - and I have been stating facts. Yes - I knew about the Chinese. I live in Manchester where the Chinese are investing in Airport City. But you are missing the point. The Chinese have been investing in the UK for a few years now - DESPITE us being in the EU. The EU haven't stopped it at all, which is something the Brexiteers have said would not happen because of EU laws. I know all about China, Swampy because I have been there twice in the last three years with work and I still have about 5 months on my 2 year visa left, enabling me to go back. There is a reciprocal arrangement and Chinese nationals can come here too. One thing I think Brexiteers are missing is that any trade deal with any foreign nation will result in more freedom of movement for that nations people to the UK. India have already stipulated this. So we will replace EU citizens with citizens of any nation we have a deal with.

The EU DID NOT scrutinise the Chinese deal. It's another myth. We are still in the EU so if they DID scrutinise it and try to stop it, we wouldn't have the deal. Right?

Talking of right versus left - I don't know why you keep bringing Labour into this. Brexit is not a left/right thing. It never was and it won't be. The reasons the Tories are getting a bashing from me is that they are the government who are currently dealing with Brexit. If Labour were in power and ballsing it up I would be having a pop at them too. Yes - I admit that I bring in the Daily Express and Daily Mail but only because they are the most vociferous anti-EU rags out there and I totally disagree with their stance.

Oh - and for the record, Cameron (and to a lesser extent) Osbourne, should be ashamed of themselves. At least we both agree on that topic. :D

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:38 am

saddlerken wrote:How boring is Manchester saddler!

:|

YAWN

Despite Manchester saddlers obsession with the right wing press, he has been completely taken in by the left wing media and social media. Totally unable to formulate his own opinions, regurgitating anything negative by like minded remainers, that comes his way.

Absolutely DESPERATE for Brexit to fail.

Copy and repeat and repeat and repeat.


I don't think you appreciate the importance of this topic, Ken. Brexit is the most important issue this country has faced for decades and I am totally against it - which is why I take every opportunity to point out why this is the case.

I can take being called "boring" - I have been called worse and I have a thick skin. But let's carry on shall we?

I am partially obsessed with TWO right wing papers, i.e. the Daily Mail and Daily Express, because they are poisonous rags. For example, after this week's commons defeat, the Daily Mail labelled the Tory rebels are "Traitors" and "Malcontents" and, since then, these people have started to get death threats. And the Daily Express has said they should be deselected. Now what's funny about this is that one of the Tory MPs who contributed has rebelled almost 50 times in the past.

Total hypocrisy! Charming eh?

The remaining right wing press are less nasty and more neutral about Brexit, mainly because they realise that the country is totally divided by this subject, including their own beloved party. Yes - the Tory party is as divided as the country.

It's got to the point now, where Remainers like myself are being cast as Traitors and are afraid to voice their concerns for fear of being ostricised - or worse. I am not such a person and I am still furious that we are slowly walking towards the abyss like a country of lemmings.

So both in life, and on this board, I will take every opportunity to point out the flaws in Brexit. Somebody has too. In return I can take having names hurled at me - a small price to pay if (as I ultimately hope) Brexit fails and this farce is stopped in its tracks before it's too late.

So yes, you are right - I am DESPERATE for Brexit to fail - but rather than being boring about it I would use the word passionate.

But having said that, I am open to other people's views and I offer you the same challenge.

Persuade me that Brexit is a good thing.

I look forward to your reply.

:D

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:27 am

I kind of admire Wrexiteers in their almost infinite capacity to avoid reality. When they can no longer dismiss the realisation that the economy is actually suffering, it's all 'where's the recession?' and 'Chinese investment' or even 'boring'. Brilliant! The country doesn't actually have to sink into the Atlantic for rather serious negative consequences to be in effect.

Does anyone think it's going to happen by the way? I suspect we'll eventually leave, but will anything actually change? I don't know what each individual leave voter went for, but most of the issues seem to be scheduled to turn out very similar to how it was before we left. We'll just take an economic hammering. What happened to hard brexit? :lol:

Rather than 'freeing ourselves' from EU legistlation, it looks like we will become its sullen lackey, moaning about regulations we no longer have absolutely any input into, and acquiesing to some vile foreign economic bully (eg China) because we desperately need investment.

Happy leavers? Looks like a rough road to actually even remove ourselves, let alone get anything that you may have voted for. As I said at the time, some got to wave a little flag for the day. Hope you've kept the photos. :wink:

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:41 am

Manchester Saddler wrote:Given that there were only two choices - leave or remain - it looks like only remainers aren't getting what they voted for at the moment.

I don't recall anything on the ballot paper about immigration, leaving the single market, not paying a divorce bill - etc.


I do not recall option 3 either,

C, Leave BUT the Left have the right to demand another referendum and indeed another and so on until they get the result they want.

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:49 am

IHTC. wrote:
Manchester Saddler wrote:Given that there were only two choices - leave or remain - it looks like only remainers aren't getting what they voted for at the moment.

I don't recall anything on the ballot paper about immigration, leaving the single market, not paying a divorce bill - etc.


I do not recall option 3 either,

C, Leave BUT the Left have the right to demand another referendum and indeed another and so on until they get the result they want.


Nothing to do with either political side as both are split on the issue. Just listened to Ken Clarke on Sunday Politics, who seemed measured and realistic, especially talking about the best option for the future prosperity of the country. Are you getting what you think you voted for by the way?

PS Oh and option C. is genuinely and specifically what Farage wanted, yes. Look it up.
Last edited by SaigonSaddler on Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:50 am

Manchester Saddler wrote:So - let's talk Brexit then.

:D


As long as we stayed with the pound the door was always deliberately left open to leave. It was always going to happen. If the remain vote had won then there would have been continuous calls for a new referendum until we were out it would have been a nightmare the leavers were never going to go away. At least we can now bring the whole issue to an end because thankfully whatever remains of the EU they won't have us back.

Everyone was bored to death with this a year ago so mention it in the pub now and you're banned

We've gone its happened move on

Nothing to see here.

For heavens sake Manchester find a sympathetic wall and start talking to it I've just painted one and I would now prefer to sit and watch it dry

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:52 am

Cowshed wrote:
Manchester Saddler wrote:So - let's talk Brexit then.

:D


As long as we stayed with the pound the door was always deliberately left open to leave. It was always going to happen. If the remain vote had won then there would have been continuous calls for a new referendum until we were out it would have been a nightmare the leavers were never going to go away. At least we can now bring the whole issue to an end because thankfully whatever remains of the EU they won't have us back.

Everyone was bored to death with this a year ago so mention it in the pub now and you're banned

We've gone its happened move on

Nothing to see here.

For heavens sake Manchester find a sympathetic wall and start talking to it I've just painted one and I would now prefer to sit and watch it dry


LOL

Enjoy your wall. :wink:

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:56 am

IHTC. wrote:
Manchester Saddler wrote:Given that there were only two choices - leave or remain - it looks like only remainers aren't getting what they voted for at the moment.

I don't recall anything on the ballot paper about immigration, leaving the single market, not paying a divorce bill - etc.


I do not recall option 3 either,

C, Leave BUT the Left have the right to demand another referendum and indeed another and so on until they get the result they want.


So you recall options 1 and 2? Did you receive a different ballot paper to me? :?

We ALL have the right to demand another referendum and there are members of the RIGHT who would welcome it too. Or are you that naive?

When will you realise that this is not a left versus right thing? Stop trying to make it so. It is a cross party issue. 73% of ALL MPS want to remain in Europe - including the Prime Minister. I know you love to "laugh at lefties" but in this case your judgement is being clouded by your prejudice.

As I said, my focus on the Tories is because they are in power; if Corbyn were effing up the negotiations then I would be having the same pop at him.

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:58 am

Cowshed wrote:
Manchester Saddler wrote:So - let's talk Brexit then.

:D


As long as we stayed with the pound the door was always deliberately left open to leave. It was always going to happen. If the remain vote had won then there would have been continuous calls for a new referendum until we were out it would have been a nightmare the leavers were never going to go away. At least we can now bring the whole issue to an end because thankfully whatever remains of the EU they won't have us back.

Everyone was bored to death with this a year ago so mention it in the pub now and you're banned

We've gone its happened move on

Nothing to see here.

For heavens sake Manchester find a sympathetic wall and start talking to it I've just painted one and I would now prefer to sit and watch it dry


Cowshed, mate, you don't have to read my posts. :D

Like I said - this is too important to ignore and iMHO it is NOT a done deal.

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:18 pm

Amazing how the previously very vocal leave element find the whole thing dull, boring, irrelevant now. :idea:

Bit like Walsall's Wembley visit? :D :wink:

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:05 pm

Manchester Saddler wrote:
IHTC. wrote:
Manchester Saddler wrote:Given that there were only two choices - leave or remain - it looks like only remainers aren't getting what they voted for at the moment.

I don't recall anything on the ballot paper about immigration, leaving the single market, not paying a divorce bill - etc.


I do not recall option 3 either,

C, Leave BUT the Left have the right to demand another referendum and indeed another and so on until they get the result they want.


So you recall options 1 and 2? Did you receive a different ballot paper to me? :?

We ALL have the right to demand another referendum and there are members of the RIGHT who would welcome it too. Or are you that naive?

When will you realise that this is not a left versus right thing? Stop trying to make it so. It is a cross party issue. 73% of ALL MPS want to remain in Europe - including the Prime Minister. I know you love to "laugh at lefties" but in this case your judgement is being clouded by your prejudice.

As I said, my focus on the Tories is because they are in power; if Corbyn were effing up the negotiations then I would be having the same pop at him.


Ah Liebour.
One of the main issues with Brexit was, and still is, too much immigration.
We know have the Shadow Home Secretary preaching she will make it "EASIER" for migrants to come to the country !
http://www.westmonster.com/diane-abbott ... lications/
And before you preach about the source Saigon, Manchester try reading the corrupt BBC, it is on there also.
And this is why, along with Comrade, I preach austerity but have a net worth of £6 million, Corbyn, Labour will not be in power for the forseeable.
I also note the lying mouthpiece Blair has risen again preaching defeating Brexit is more important than Labour governing. Also claiming he likes Corbyn. Wasn't it only weeks ago he was slating Corbyn for dragging the Labour party down ! Why the media even give this arrogant waste of semen air space I don't know.
The only reason he is trying to scupper Brexit is because he can see his cash cow job with the EU filtering away.
Saw a poll on twitter last night regarding Brexit. Results 54% wanting to remain.
The entire poll was carried out in Kensington.
And you Manchester tell us to listen to these so called experts who think the entire UK ends around the M25.
What these polls and opinions of experts are written on, who think London is the be all and end all, are good for one thing................wiping my arse on.

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:28 pm

But how bothered are some of the Brexiteers at the top of the Tory party about immigration? Fox was quickly told to shut up when he said that immigration rates could be maintained by drawing from outside the EU. The likes of Gove and Johnson are economic free-market liberals who see a need for a fluid workforce, just without as many rights as the EU gives them. Their alliance with "get our country back" UKIPers was one of convenience, and both sides could end up regretting.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comm ... -38btktnc6

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:34 pm

shrewsbury saddler wrote:But how bothered are some of the Brexiteers at the top of the Tory party about immigration? Fox was quickly told to shut up when he said that immigration rates could be maintained by drawing from outside the EU. The likes of Gove and Johnson are economic free-market liberals who see a need for a fluid workforce, just without as many rights as the EU gives them. Their alliance with "get our country back" UKIPers was one of convenience, and both sides could end up regretting.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comm ... -38btktnc6


I am not denying immigration is good for the country but it needs managing.
With Abbott as Home Secretary the floodgates would be open for all and sundry hence why at the moment the Tories have no competition in government.
If anyone can take the Labour party as contenders I really do pity them.
You have Corbyn at the top : preaching austerity hypocritically, who loves the Venezuela option (you know the one where in upcoming elections all the opposition are banned from entering) and whose idea of dealing with terrorism is sitting down for tea and biscuits and there would be no Trident programme, in fact probably no Armed Forces.
John McDonnell : who has already said he will plunge the country into further debt and his solution is "we all have ipads".
Diane Abbott : I don't even have to say anything where she is concerned, we all see the news.
Tom Watson : about as much use as a chocolate ashtray on a motorbike.
The one that saw the light is Andy Burnham (who I despise), taking a cushy little number as Mayor of Manchester.
This is the opposition to Brexit under the Tories, no opposition then really.

Brilliant tweet from James Cleverly earlier just highlighting how one in the Labour party doesn't know what the other wants.
And people vote for these :!: :!: :!: :!:

"Help me understand what Labour’s position is.

So far I’ve heard Corbyn say they won’t rule out second referendum.

Diane Abbott last month backed second referendum but today rules out second referendum.

Tom Watson today doesn't rule out second referendum".

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shrewsbury saddler
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:54 pm

swampysaddler wrote:
shrewsbury saddler wrote:But how bothered are some of the Brexiteers at the top of the Tory party about immigration? Fox was quickly told to shut up when he said that immigration rates could be maintained by drawing from outside the EU. The likes of Gove and Johnson are economic free-market liberals who see a need for a fluid workforce, just without as many rights as the EU gives them. Their alliance with "get our country back" UKIPers was one of convenience, and both sides could end up regretting.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comm ... -38btktnc6


I am not denying immigration is good for the country but it needs managing.
With Abbott as Home Secretary the floodgates would be open for all and sundry hence why at the moment the Tories have no competition in government.
If anyone can take the Labour party as contenders I really do pity them.
You have Corbyn at the top : preaching austerity hypocritically, who loves the Venezuela option (you know the one where in upcoming elections all the opposition are banned from entering) and whose idea of dealing with terrorism is sitting down for tea and biscuits and there would be no Trident programme, in fact probably no Armed Forces.
John McDonnell : who has already said he will plunge the country into further debt and his solution is "we all have ipads".
Diane Abbott : I don't even have to say anything where she is concerned, we all see the news.
Tom Watson : about as much use as a chocolate ashtray on a motorbike.
The one that saw the light is Andy Burnham (who I despise), taking a cushy little number as Mayor of Manchester.
This is the opposition to Brexit under the Tories, no opposition then really.

Brilliant tweet from James Cleverly earlier just highlighting how one in the Labour party doesn't know what the other wants.
And people vote for these :!: :!: :!: :!:

"Help me understand what Labour’s position is.

So far I’ve heard Corbyn say they won’t rule out second referendum.

Diane Abbott last month backed second referendum but today rules out second referendum.

Tom Watson today doesn't rule out second referendum".

You seem to assume I was arguing in favour of Labour.No. I was pointing out that the shenanigans involved in getting a leave vote means the job of negotiating a deal has been handed to people closer to Labour's view on immigration than they are to your own.Happy with that?

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