Is the tide turning against Trump?

[tinned]

What I really heard (from reliable news sources) was that our economy is in decline; any forecasts of improvement we've had recently have proven to be wrong.

Let's see shall we? I'm going by the factual steady decline of the economy over the past 18 months not blind Brexit optimism.

:mrgreen:

What decline? Growth of around 1.4% to 1.6% forecast for next year. Don't for on minute let the truth get in the way :shock:

Errr, cue the actual OECD ...

https://www.pwc.co.uk/services/economic ... tlook.html

1.8% in 2016
1.5% in 2017
1.4% in 2018 projected

1.1% in 2019 projected

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... k-economy/

That decline.

Erm, that's still growth.

Manchester said "our economy is in decline" which is untrue and misleading.

[El_Nombre]

What I really heard (from reliable news sources) was that our economy is in decline; any forecasts of improvement we've had recently have proven to be wrong.

Let's see shall we? I'm going by the factual steady decline of the economy over the past 18 months not blind Brexit optimism.

:mrgreen:

What decline? Growth of around 1.4% to 1.6% forecast for next year. Don't for on minute let the truth get in the way :shock:

Errr, cue the actual OECD ...

https://www.pwc.co.uk/services/economic ... tlook.html

1.8% in 2016
1.5% in 2017
1.4% in 2018 projected

1.1% in 2019 projected

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... k-economy/

That decline.

Erm, that's still growth.

Manchester said "our economy is in decline" which is untrue and misleading.

Wow what a terrible misunderstanding of these figures.

I'll make it easy for you. If you are driving a car at say 90 miles an hour, and after ten minutes you drop to 80, then after another 10 you drop to 70, then after another 10 you drop to 60 then your speed is DECLINING. Your speed isn't growing. It's declining.

[tinned]

What I really heard (from reliable news sources) was that our economy is in decline; any forecasts of improvement we've had recently have proven to be wrong.

Let's see shall we? I'm going by the factual steady decline of the economy over the past 18 months not blind Brexit optimism.

:mrgreen:

What decline? Growth of around 1.4% to 1.6% forecast for next year. Don't for on minute let the truth get in the way :shock:

Errr, cue the actual OECD ...

https://www.pwc.co.uk/services/economic ... tlook.html

1.8% in 2016
1.5% in 2017
1.4% in 2018 projected

1.1% in 2019 projected

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... k-economy/

That decline.

Erm, that's still growth.

Manchester said "our economy is in decline" which is untrue and misleading.

Wow what a terrible misunderstanding of these figures.

I'll make it easy for you. If you are driving a car at say 90 miles an hour, and after ten minutes you drop to 80, then after another 10 you drop to 70, then after another 10 you drop to 60 then your speed is DECLINING. Your speed isn't growing. It's declining.

Double wow, what a complete shambles of a post!

If it takes you 10 seconds to go from 0 to 60 and then 30 seconds from 60 to 120 you're still accelerating, just at a slower rate.

Plot it on a graph and sit in a dark corner!

[El_Nombre]

What decline? Growth of around 1.4% to 1.6% forecast for next year. Don't for on minute let the truth get in the way :shock:

Errr, cue the actual OECD ...

https://www.pwc.co.uk/services/economic ... tlook.html

1.8% in 2016
1.5% in 2017
1.4% in 2018 projected

1.1% in 2019 projected

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... k-economy/

That decline.

Erm, that's still growth.

Manchester said "our economy is in decline" which is untrue and misleading.

Wow what a terrible misunderstanding of these figures.

I'll make it easy for you. If you are driving a car at say 90 miles an hour, and after ten minutes you drop to 80, then after another 10 you drop to 70, then after another 10 you drop to 60 then your speed is DECLINING. Your speed isn't growing. It's declining.

Double wow, what a complete shambles of a post!

If it takes you 10 seconds to go from 0 to 60 and then 30 seconds from 60 to 120 you're still accelerating, just at a slower rate.

Plot it on a graph and sit in a dark corner!

Mate, I don't know what your standard of mathematics is but I don't need to plot a graph to know that 1.8 is more than 1.1...

Not sure what your strange analogy comes from but there you go. We're not going from 60 to 120, we are going from 60 to 30. Jesus Christ.

Our economy is still growing but at a much slower rate. That is called economic decline.

[SaigonSaddler]

It's clear what Manchester meant.

Anyway, it's less easy to drive a car with three wheels, especially when you've just told the local garage to 'bog off you cheese eating idiots!'. But that's ok, cos there's another garage you've heard about 400 miles down the road that will definitely give you a great deal because you own a red Rolls Royce. :wink:

[tinned]

Not sure what your strange analogy comes from but there you go. We're not going from 60 to 120, we are going from 60 to 30. Jesus Christ.

No we're not, We're still accelerating, just at a slower pace than before.

Our economy is still growing but at a much slower rate. That is called economic decline.

No, it's called economic growth. The economy is STILL getting bigger.

Oh dear!

[Manchester Saddler]

So if we are growing at 1.1% (which is much less than predicted) and our EU neighbours are growing at 5% - and the rate of growth for them is bigger than it is for us, you think that's a GOOD thing and something to be proud of?

:?

[El_Nombre]

Not sure what your strange analogy comes from but there you go. We're not going from 60 to 120, we are going from 60 to 30. Jesus Christ.

No we're not, We're still accelerating, just at a slower pace than before.

Our economy is still growing but at a much slower rate. That is called economic decline.

No, it's called economic growth. The economy is STILL getting bigger.

Oh dear!

So, like accelerating at 30 rather than 60, then???????? How do you not grasp this haha That is EXACTLY what I'm trying to explain to you. Almost half as slowly if 2019's predictions are to be believed.

And that economic growth is declining at a very steady rate. The figures are there for you. When it goes less than 0 we are in real big trouble but it getting less and less is still a decline in that growth. F*** me.

[swampysaddler]

That'll be the Armageddon banded around by rank Brexiteers, absurdly conflating 'there will be damaging economic effects' into 'Britain will slide off into the North Atlantic' ? :lol: :wink:

No-one has ever suggested a plunge into pre-industrial serfdom, simply that there will be negative economic effects and a reduction of Britain's standing with the rest of the world.

Bit of a difference, but something which has inadvertently prevented you from addressing the question. :!: :wink:

again

No the Armageddon promised by George Osbourne if we voted Leave. Still waiting.
As with all the other doom and gloom predictions with voting Leave, still waiting.
Shame the original EU vote thread has disappeared, I could refer you back to all the doom mongering on that as well.

Yes - it is a shame that thread disappeared because it was full of facts as to why Brexit would be the worst decision ever made by the British people.

The "armageddon" was not promised to occur the day after the result because the full effects will not be seen until we actually pull free of Europe. That will take time but we can clearly see the effects already started:

A plummetting pound

High inflation

Poor growth in the UK (as growth in the EU flourishes)

Relatively lower wages

The economy being squeezed.

When we leave, and the tariffs start, the cost of living will go up, growth will plummet, the pound will fall through the floor, interest rates will increase and we all all be worse off with nothing to show for it, watching the EU with envious eyes as they prosper as we fail.

It will be a slow death.

Now then - any takers on a pro of Brexit?

Just one?

I can be persuaded you know.

All the above are just "your assumptions" not hardened facts with resounding evidence.
Until the hardened facts and figures of your "Armageddon" assumptions are provided then that is all they are ................... your assumptions and views. Nothing more nothing less.

You ask for one positive of Brexit fine.
Provide me with facts and figures of this big financial crash and Armageddon we are going to have to endure and I will gladly list the positives.
I won't hold my breath though, probably end up back in the Queen Elizabeth hospital again waiting.

They are not assumptions. They are facts. The pound has plummeted. Inflation is up. Growth is down. This is economic fact. Look at the EU - growth is UP.

The economy is sliding - you can see it for yourself if you look at what has happened in the past year. The evidence is there.

You cannot give me a single pro for Brexit - otherwise you would have.

And as per normal you voice opinions without offering HARD evidence !!!

[swampysaddler]

That'll be the Armageddon banded around by rank Brexiteers, absurdly conflating 'there will be damaging economic effects' into 'Britain will slide off into the North Atlantic' ? :lol: :wink:

No-one has ever suggested a plunge into pre-industrial serfdom, simply that there will be negative economic effects and a reduction of Britain's standing with the rest of the world.

Bit of a difference, but something which has inadvertently prevented you from addressing the question. :!: :wink:

again

No the Armageddon promised by George Osbourne if we voted Leave. Still waiting.
As with all the other doom and gloom predictions with voting Leave, still waiting.
Shame the original EU vote thread has disappeared, I could refer you back to all the doom mongering on that as well.

We haven't actually left yet so no there hasn't been. Pound has already dropped though, so those gloomers were right. Immigration is down though if that's your kind of thing.

'Britain’s economy would be tipped into a year-long recession, with at least 500,000 jobs lost and GDP around 3.6% lower, following a vote to leave the EU, new Treasury analysis launched today by the Prime Minister and Chancellor shows.'

Well that did not happen.

As swampy says, we were promised Armageddon the day after we voted to leave.

I think you're assuming that these would be immediate effects, almost literally the day after. The bank of England moved to prevent some of the worst next day consequences, and almost the only immediate effect was the drop in the pound, which clearly has yet to recover.

In fact there was good performance by the UK economy in the months following Brexit, something that Farage pointed to as a benefit ... it's not. Why? The answer is that it takes a while to turn an oil tanker. Now we see the UK economy falling behind the EU, with loss of jobs and other economic woes, entirely as predicted by 'those damn experts' that Gove ridiculously dismissed with a single wave of his pallied hand.

Even now the consequences are unfolding, and the noises from Europe state catergorically that we'll lose the EU financial services from London. This dwarfs anything and is geniune, lasting damage. The government is already cutting back services to accommodate this impact and this alone means that your pension will cost more for less, while your NHS and other services will be less capable.

But that is what we was promised last June !!
To say I am disappointed is an understatement. :cry:

[swampysaddler]

Unless my memory is playing up I am pretty certain there were many people (high up) on the remain side who predicted that the economy would go tits up on the 27th June 2016.

Yes there was a steady decline in the £ but that has recovered half of its loses and instead of us losing hundreds of thousands of jobs unemployment has continued to fall and still no recession to be seen anywhere as was promised.

Your memory is playing up.

Unless my memory is playing up the NHS should be receiving an extra £350 million a week too. Oh, wait...

And here we go again about the £350 million.
Where on that bus did it state the NHS would get £350 million a week ?
It was merely a suggestion of where the money could be spent but don't let facts get in the way of your doom mongering and being proven wrong AGAIN.

[tinned]

Not sure what your strange analogy comes from but there you go. We're not going from 60 to 120, we are going from 60 to 30. Jesus Christ.

No we're not, We're still accelerating, just at a slower pace than before.

Our economy is still growing but at a much slower rate. That is called economic decline.

No, it's called economic growth. The economy is STILL getting bigger.

Oh dear!

So, like accelerating at 30 rather than 60, then???????? How do you not grasp this haha That is EXACTLY what I'm trying to explain to you. Almost half as slowly if 2019's predictions are to be believed.

And that economic growth is declining at a very steady rate. The figures are there for you. When it goes less than 0 we are in real big trouble but it getting less and less is still a decline in that growth. F*** me.

If you thought today was Wednesday and somebody showed you a calendar you'd still carry on calling today Wednesday :lol:

Now you're saying "economic growth is declining". I never said it wasn't. I was pointing out Manchester's post saying that the economy is declining was incorrect.

Give me strength!

[saddla]

I'd like to take this opportunity to apologise to the non-combatants in this debate for starting this thread.
It was meant to spark some conversation about politics on the other side of the Atlantic but there you go.
I'm sure the "Oh yes he did - Oh no he didn't" exchanges will stop around 2025.
:mrgreen:

[El_Nombre]

Not sure what your strange analogy comes from but there you go. We're not going from 60 to 120, we are going from 60 to 30. Jesus Christ.

No we're not, We're still accelerating, just at a slower pace than before.

Our economy is still growing but at a much slower rate. That is called economic decline.

No, it's called economic growth. The economy is STILL getting bigger.

Oh dear!

So, like accelerating at 30 rather than 60, then???????? How do you not grasp this haha That is EXACTLY what I'm trying to explain to you. Almost half as slowly if 2019's predictions are to be believed.

And that economic growth is declining at a very steady rate. The figures are there for you. When it goes less than 0 we are in real big trouble but it getting less and less is still a decline in that growth. F*** me.

If you thought today was Wednesday and somebody showed you a calendar you'd still carry on calling today Wednesday :lol:

Now you're saying "economic growth is declining". I never said it wasn't. I was pointing out Manchester's post saying that the economy is declining was incorrect.

Give me strength!

Coming from the guy who just told me my point was nonsense, then explained EXACTLY my point painted as if it was somehow showing me up...

No I've been saying that all along, at length. Because it's basically the same thing when you compete with other people's whose "ECONOMIC GROWTH" (God forbd we use the wrong wording aye Tinned) isn't.

[El_Nombre]

Unless my memory is playing up I am pretty certain there were many people (high up) on the remain side who predicted that the economy would go tits up on the 27th June 2016.

Yes there was a steady decline in the £ but that has recovered half of its loses and instead of us losing hundreds of thousands of jobs unemployment has continued to fall and still no recession to be seen anywhere as was promised.

Your memory is playing up.

Unless my memory is playing up the NHS should be receiving an extra £350 million a week too. Oh, wait...

And here we go again about the £350 million.
Where on that bus did it state the NHS would get £350 million a week ?
It was merely a suggestion of where the money could be spent but don't let facts get in the way of your doom mongering and being proven wrong AGAIN.

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-p ... 5020-0.jpg

[Manchester Saddler]

And as per normal you voice opinions without offering HARD evidence !!!

Swampy lad - you only need to watch the news to see the evidence. You seem to have a blindspot for anything that is anti Brexit.

Watch the news - check the state of the economy over the last 18 months.

There is your hard evidence.

[El_Nombre]

No the Armageddon promised by George Osbourne if we voted Leave. Still waiting.
As with all the other doom and gloom predictions with voting Leave, still waiting.
Shame the original EU vote thread has disappeared, I could refer you back to all the doom mongering on that as well.

Yes - it is a shame that thread disappeared because it was full of facts as to why Brexit would be the worst decision ever made by the British people.

The "armageddon" was not promised to occur the day after the result because the full effects will not be seen until we actually pull free of Europe. That will take time but we can clearly see the effects already started:

A plummetting pound

High inflation

Poor growth in the UK (as growth in the EU flourishes)

Relatively lower wages

The economy being squeezed.

When we leave, and the tariffs start, the cost of living will go up, growth will plummet, the pound will fall through the floor, interest rates will increase and we all all be worse off with nothing to show for it, watching the EU with envious eyes as they prosper as we fail.

It will be a slow death.

Now then - any takers on a pro of Brexit?

Just one?

I can be persuaded you know.

All the above are just "your assumptions" not hardened facts with resounding evidence.
Until the hardened facts and figures of your "Armageddon" assumptions are provided then that is all they are ................... your assumptions and views. Nothing more nothing less.

You ask for one positive of Brexit fine.
Provide me with facts and figures of this big financial crash and Armageddon we are going to have to endure and I will gladly list the positives.
I won't hold my breath though, probably end up back in the Queen Elizabeth hospital again waiting.

They are not assumptions. They are facts. The pound has plummeted. Inflation is up. Growth is down. This is economic fact. Look at the EU - growth is UP.

The economy is sliding - you can see it for yourself if you look at what has happened in the past year. The evidence is there.

You cannot give me a single pro for Brexit - otherwise you would have.

And as per normal you voice opinions without offering HARD evidence !!!

"pound has plummeted" - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... -cocktail/

"inflation is up" - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 41921.html

"growth is down" - https://www.theguardian.com/business/li ... iness-live (Up 0.4 percent at time of writing but still way below par).

[SaigonSaddler]

Unless my memory is playing up I am pretty certain there were many people (high up) on the remain side who predicted that the economy would go tits up on the 27th June 2016.

Yes there was a steady decline in the £ but that has recovered half of its loses and instead of us losing hundreds of thousands of jobs unemployment has continued to fall and still no recession to be seen anywhere as was promised.

Your memory is playing up.

Unless my memory is playing up the NHS should be receiving an extra £350 million a week too. Oh, wait...

And here we go again about the £350 million.
Where on that bus did it state the NHS would get £350 million a week ?
It was merely a suggestion of where the money could be spent but don't let facts get in the way of your doom mongering and being proven wrong AGAIN.

I think you put it in mOssive capitals on a previous thread. Now you've relegated it to 'merely a suggestion' level since it didn't happen and never had any chance of happening, but it was inferred heavily enough during the campaign to convince many voters. It's called being economical with the truth, also known as lying.

But that is what we was promised last June !!
To say I am disappointed is an understatement.

You were never promised that the entire consequences of brexit would play out on a lazy June afternoon. It's now December 2017 and the effects are still taking shape, and the overwhelming weight of evidence points clearly to ongoing damaging effects on the economy. I see you're still clinging to the Gove line that 'experts don't know anything' and pretending there is still nothing out there which allows you not to engage with the actual hard evidence.

I'd be upset if I'd been conned too. :!:

[SaigonSaddler]

I'd like to take this opportunity to apologise to the non-combatants in this debate for starting this thread.
It was meant to spark some conversation about politics on the other side of the Atlantic but there you go.
I'm sure the "Oh yes he did - Oh no he didn't" exchanges will stop around 2025.
:mrgreen:

D'ya wanna get sucked in son?! :lol:

[swampysaddler]

There we go. All is well thanks to Brexit.
I will sleep easy tonight knowing this.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42268326

[SaigonSaddler]

There we go. All is well thanks to Brexit.
I will sleep easy tonight knowing this.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42268326

Michael Gove ... :lol:

[tinned]

Not sure what your strange analogy comes from but there you go. We're not going from 60 to 120, we are going from 60 to 30. Jesus Christ.

No we're not, We're still accelerating, just at a slower pace than before.

Our economy is still growing but at a much slower rate. That is called economic decline.

No, it's called economic growth. The economy is STILL getting bigger.

Oh dear!

So, like accelerating at 30 rather than 60, then???????? How do you not grasp this haha That is EXACTLY what I'm trying to explain to you. Almost half as slowly if 2019's predictions are to be believed.

And that economic growth is declining at a very steady rate. The figures are there for you. When it goes less than 0 we are in real big trouble but it getting less and less is still a decline in that growth. F*** me.

If you thought today was Wednesday and somebody showed you a calendar you'd still carry on calling today Wednesday :lol:

Now you're saying "economic growth is declining". I never said it wasn't. I was pointing out Manchester's post saying that the economy is declining was incorrect.

Give me strength!

Coming from the guy who just told me my point was nonsense, then explained EXACTLY my point painted as if it was somehow showing me up...

No I've been saying that all along, at length. Because it's basically the same thing when you compete with other people's whose "ECONOMIC GROWTH" (God forbd we use the wrong wording aye Tinned) isn't.

Not sure what your strange analogy comes from but there you go. We're not going from 60 to 120, we are going from 60 to 30. Jesus Christ.

If we were going from 60 to 30 we'd be decelerating (in economic terms , recession). The forecast says we're going to grow.

You twist and turn so much in absolutely every discussion you get involved in I doubt even you know what you're trying to say.

[Exile]

I'd like to take this opportunity to apologise to the non-combatants in this debate for starting this thread.
It was meant to spark some conversation about politics on the other side of the Atlantic but there you go.
I'm sure the "Oh yes he did - Oh no he didn't" exchanges will stop around 2025.
:mrgreen:

The tide's turning, alright. The alt-right presidency wagon wheels are falling off. He's chewing through advisers, and the spectre of Impeachment looms...

The next test is the midterm elections in November 2018.

[swampysaddler]

I despair I really do.
Where is this financial crash we was promised last June ?
Surely if we are going into recession and all of us will be on the verge of homelessness as promised last June (as we have been since last June but it hasn't happened yet !!!) we shouldn't be making trade deals
How very dare them. Didn't they get informed Brexit would be the death of this country.
All the government had to do was read Manchester's opinions and assumptions on Brexit (without offering any evidence) and they would have realized all the sore losers remainers were right, WE ARE DOOMED.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42377177

[Welsh_Saddler]

This thread is supposed to be about the trials and tribulations of Donald Trump. Let's see if we can get it back on track - any comments about the desirability or otherwise of UK attachment or otherwise to Europe should be the subject of a separate thread. So if you want to have a Brexit-fest then go ahead and start such a thread.

Trump comments only here, please ..... deviations will result in locking. :wink:

[SaigonSaddler]

I despair I really do.
Where is this financial crash we was promised last June ?
Surely if we are going into recession and all of us will be on the verge of homelessness as promised last June (as we have been since last June but it hasn't happened yet !!!) we shouldn't be making trade deals
How very dare them. Didn't they get informed Brexit would be the death of this country.
All the government had to do was read Manchester's opinions and assumptions on Brexit (without offering any evidence) and they would have realized all the sore losers remainers were right, WE ARE DOOMED.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42377177

So much wrong in that post ... it could have been written by Trump. :D

[swampysaddler]

I despair I really do.
Where is this financial crash we was promised last June ?
Surely if we are going into recession and all of us will be on the verge of homelessness as promised last June (as we have been since last June but it hasn't happened yet !!!) we shouldn't be making trade deals
How very dare them. Didn't they get informed Brexit would be the death of this country.
All the government had to do was read Manchester's opinions and assumptions on Brexit (without offering any evidence) and they would have realized all the sore losers remainers were right, WE ARE DOOMED.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42377177

So much wrong in that post ... it could have been written by Trump. :D

Ahhhhhh just because it doesn't tow the line with all your doom and gloom Brexit predictions.
Here have a lollipop, go and sulk in the corner :mrgreen:

[SaigonSaddler]

I despair I really do.
Where is this financial crash we was promised last June ?
Surely if we are going into recession and all of us will be on the verge of homelessness as promised last June (as we have been since last June but it hasn't happened yet !!!) we shouldn't be making trade deals
How very dare them. Didn't they get informed Brexit would be the death of this country.
All the government had to do was read Manchester's opinions and assumptions on Brexit (without offering any evidence) and they would have realized all the sore losers remainers were right, WE ARE DOOMED.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42377177

So much wrong in that post ... it could have been written by Trump. :D

Ahhhhhh just because it doesn't tow the line with all your doom and gloom Brexit predictions.
Here have a lollipop, go and sulk in the corner :mrgreen:

Trump enjoys lollipops! :D

[swampysaddler]

I despair I really do.
Where is this financial crash we was promised last June ?
Surely if we are going into recession and all of us will be on the verge of homelessness as promised last June (as we have been since last June but it hasn't happened yet !!!) we shouldn't be making trade deals
How very dare them. Didn't they get informed Brexit would be the death of this country.
All the government had to do was read Manchester's opinions and assumptions on Brexit (without offering any evidence) and they would have realized all the sore losers remainers were right, WE ARE DOOMED.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42377177

So much wrong in that post ... it could have been written by Trump. :D

Ahhhhhh just because it doesn't tow the line with all your doom and gloom Brexit predictions.
Here have a lollipop, go and sulk in the corner :mrgreen:

Trump enjoys lollipops! :D

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Manchester Saddler]

This thread is supposed to be about the trials and tribulations of Donald Trump. Let's see if we can get it back on track - any comments about the desirability or otherwise of UK attachment or otherwise to Europe should be the subject of a separate thread. So if you want to have a Brexit-fest then go ahead and start such a thread.

Trump comments only here, please ..... deviations will result in locking. :wink:

Okay, Welshy-lad. I will start a separate thread. :D

Apparently it seems that Mr Trump is not really running America - apparently Mike Pence is running the White House. Trump seems to be just a figurehead.

He also has the lowest approval rating of any POTUS ever.

I think that speaks volumes.