Budget

[Surrey Saddler]

Wow....growth down (worst in Europe), productivity down (worst in Europe) living standards down. Perhaps Brexit will rescue us (NOT!!). Time for another referendum guys.

[Ancient Moaner]

Wow....growth down (worst in Europe), productivity down (worst in Europe) living standards down. Perhaps Brexit will rescue us (NOT!!). Time for another referendum guys.

If we were stupid enough to let Labour back in to Downing street, the above figures would be like the outbreak of the Industrial Revolution! They would also reverse the will of the people of the UK and plonk us back into the EU so that we could continue to swell the coffers of the Brussels Eurocrats, who are panicking like mad now that their cash cow is leaving, hence holding us to ransom for a massive payout when we leave because funding will evaporate.

[SaigonSaddler]

Wow....growth down (worst in Europe), productivity down (worst in Europe) living standards down. Perhaps Brexit will rescue us (NOT!!). Time for another referendum guys.

If we were stupid enough to let Labour back in to Downing street, the above figures would be like the outbreak of the Industrial Revolution! They would also reverse the will of the people of the UK and plonk us back into the EU so that we could continue to swell the coffers of the Brussels Eurocrats, who are panicking like mad now that their cash cow is leaving, hence holding us to ransom for a massive payout when we leave because funding will evaporate.

I've been travelling through Europe. No-one is panicking about Britain's exit.
At best it's a *shrug* and a curiosity as to why on earth we'd leave.

[Surrey Saddler]

But Ancient, an Industrial Revolution is just what we want. Europe is booming (growth typically 2.6%). We are not. We have really shot ourselves in the foot over Brexit. We are being taken to the cleaners in the Brexit so called negotiations, and all that fool Davies does is giggle and laugh when asked a question he does not wish to answer. Talk about having our cake and eat it...remember that!

[Exile]

Wow....growth down (worst in Europe), productivity down (worst in Europe) living standards down. Perhaps Brexit will rescue us (NOT!!). Time for another referendum guys.

If we were stupid enough to let Labour back in to Downing street, the above figures would be like the outbreak of the Industrial Revolution! They would also reverse the will of the people of the UK and plonk us back into the EU so that we could continue to swell the coffers of the Brussels Eurocrats, who are panicking like mad now that their cash cow is leaving, hence holding us to ransom for a massive payout when we leave because funding will evaporate.

Is this some dismal attempt to deflect attention from the selfservatives? National debt now more than double what it was when they took over. National deficit now higher than it was when they took over. All that austerity and they've made it worse. You couldn't make it up.

[swampysaddler]

Wow....growth down (worst in Europe), productivity down (worst in Europe) living standards down. Perhaps Brexit will rescue us (NOT!!). Time for another referendum guys.

If we were stupid enough to let Labour back in to Downing street, the above figures would be like the outbreak of the Industrial Revolution! They would also reverse the will of the people of the UK and plonk us back into the EU so that we could continue to swell the coffers of the Brussels Eurocrats, who are panicking like mad now that their cash cow is leaving, hence holding us to ransom for a massive payout when we leave because funding will evaporate.

Is this some dismal attempt to deflect attention from the selfservatives? National debt now more than double what it was when they took over. National deficit now higher than it was when they took over. All that austerity and they've made it worse. You couldn't make it up.

And the alternative is what ?
Jeremy Corbyn and his merry terrorist supporting, racist, antisemitism party that are renown for plunging the country into debt ?
More bullshit promises from his "magic money tree" in his garden to attract the double vote of the unwashed and the followers of the religion we can't mention.

[Manchester Saddler]

Careful, Swampy! That whole post is a complete oxymoron and you are edging into territory that perhaps you shouldn't that may cause you to be banned. Read it again - particularly the section "to attract the double vote of the unwashed and the followers of the religion we can't mention".

FYI - The country was plunged into debt due to a GLOBAL crisis that was caused by Bankers - supported by the Tory party, of course.

So now we are in crisis for different reasons - and that is the fault of whom exactly?

I wonder who you will blame in ten years' time?

[swampysaddler]

Careful, Swampy! That whole post is a complete oxymoron and you are edging into territory that perhaps you shouldn't that may cause you to be banned. Read it again - particularly the section "to attract the double vote of the unwashed and the followers of the religion we can't mention".

FYI - The country was plunged into debt due to a GLOBAL crisis that was caused by Bankers - supported by the Tory party, of course.

So now we are in crisis for different reasons - and that is the fault of whom exactly?

I wonder who you will blame in ten years' time?

That's why when the Tories took office after the Liebour disaster a note was found stating "there is no money left".
And people want these type running the country again ?
The comment about double votes is backed up by students being investigated for double voting, registered at Uni/College and also at mummy and daddy's home address and postal votes are being investigated.
Labour have already said that if they were in power, god forbid, the country would be borrowing a lot more (more debt).
Listen to the clip below, he refuses to answer questions on national debt his answer being 'that's why we have iPads'
And people want these clowns in charge !!!!

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/shadow ... 99386.html

[El_Nombre]

Wow....growth down (worst in Europe), productivity down (worst in Europe) living standards down. Perhaps Brexit will rescue us (NOT!!). Time for another referendum guys.

If we were stupid enough to let Labour back in to Downing street, the above figures would be like the outbreak of the Industrial Revolution! They would also reverse the will of the people of the UK and plonk us back into the EU so that we could continue to swell the coffers of the Brussels Eurocrats, who are panicking like mad now that their cash cow is leaving, hence holding us to ransom for a massive payout when we leave because funding will evaporate.

Is this some dismal attempt to deflect attention from the selfservatives? National debt now more than double what it was when they took over. National deficit now higher than it was when they took over. All that austerity and they've made it worse. You couldn't make it up.

And the alternative is what ?
Jeremy Corbyn and his merry terrorist supporting, racist, antisemitism party that are renown for plunging the country into debt ?
More bullshit promises from his "magic money tree" in his garden to attract the double vote of the unwashed and the followers of the religion we can't mention.

Is your tin hat comfortable? Jesus Christ

Wouldn't want Racists or Antisemitism in charge would we? http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/27 ... sm-7904018

[Manchester Saddler]

Careful, Swampy! That whole post is a complete oxymoron and you are edging into territory that perhaps you shouldn't that may cause you to be banned. Read it again - particularly the section "to attract the double vote of the unwashed and the followers of the religion we can't mention".

FYI - The country was plunged into debt due to a GLOBAL crisis that was caused by Bankers - supported by the Tory party, of course.

So now we are in crisis for different reasons - and that is the fault of whom exactly?

I wonder who you will blame in ten years' time?

That's why when the Tories took office after the Liebour disaster a note was found stating "there is no money left".
And people want these type running the country again ?
The comment about double votes is backed up by students being investigated for double voting, registered at Uni/College and also at mummy and daddy's home address and postal votes are being investigated.
Labour have already said that if they were in power, god forbid, the country would be borrowing a lot more (more debt).
Listen to the clip below, he refuses to answer questions on national debt his answer being 'that's why we have iPads'
And people want these clowns in charge !!!!

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 99386.html

Yes - a lot has been made of that note - but it was a stupid mistake and seized on by Cameron to convince gullible people that it was true - including you, Swampster.

Basically the Tories have used the crash (which I reiterate again was a GLOBAL crash caused by bankers and not directly the fault of the then government) to adopt a policy that hurts the poor and less well off while making the rich richer.

The crash would have happened even if the Tories had been in power.

The Tories have been in power for 7 years now and what have they achieved? Brexit (the biggest mistake ever), people so badly off that they are using food banks EVEN WHILE WORKING, the slow murder of the NHS to name but three.

It's interesting you highlight a politician who refuses to answer questions; there are thousands of examples from all parties. Add to that the fact that the editor of the Standard is another pathological liar who refuses to answer questions it just proves that you believe the hype - and is irrelevant to your argument. You are just cherry-picking to reinforce your point without looking at the bigger picture.

"The unwashed" - what a wonderful term you use there, Swampy. But you are kind of incorrect. The "unwashed" is a derogatory term that really applies to the lower classes - and that probably includes both you and me relatively speaking when you consider Tory politicians. It means people who are stupid (students are not generally stupid as they are at university) and people who are common (these days or should I say in future days you will find that only rich folks can afford to go to university).

A minority of students may have voted twice but that doesn't mean they were all Corbyn voters. There is no evidence for that. Some may actually have voted for other parties.

It seems that you are blindly being led by the blind when it comes to politics, Swampster. You believe everything you read in the right wing press, particularly stuff that supports your more edgy views -(which I really don't want to get into).

Sorry to tell you, mate - most if not all of it is bull.

:D

[swampysaddler]

:wink:

[derbysaddler]

Borrowing has risen to its highest levels under the current government over the last 6 years....ooops.

That magic tree had a good shaking to pay off the DUP in a proper banana republic style pay off.


Forget the opposition at the moment, because thats all they are , please outline the current successful policy and planning of the current government.

[Surrey Saddler]

Allister Campbell made a good point about Brexit recently. He said : NOBODY in the Government is now talking about "what a wonderful thing Brexit is" . He is right - they are not. All they bang on about is the "will of the people". Its about time our leaders came clean, took responsibility and campaigned for another referendum. This country is in a big enough mess as it is, without the additional burden of Brexit.

As I have said before, it is parliaments job to listen to the will of the people but not necessarily abide by it. They are there to represent us, take part in debate, weigh up the pro's and cons on our behalf, but then make up their own mind. A good example is capital punishment - years ago when capital punishment was abolished, the majority of the public were for it and may be they are still today. But parliament took responsibility, did their job by debating and weighing up the evidence and coming to their OWN conclusion. As we all know, the referendum was called by Cameron for the benefit of his own party, not the country - a dreadful betrayal by a Prime Minister.

And look where we are- living standard dropping, still below 2008 levels and not expected to rise until 2023. Europe growing (look at European stock market funds if you don't believe me - arch Brexiteer John Redwood advising people to "put their money into Europe" . Productivity at dismal levels, House prices out of reach for "ordinary" people. Food banks for people who CANNOT AFFORD TO EAT. Rough sleepers on every street corner in London.

Wise up folks.....don't leave it to Boris (clever man but bored (watch him at PMQs) economical with the truth, and self serving); Gove, also clever but mad, David Davies - thinks it all a big joke. Mrs May - nice Tory lady but far more suited to garden parties and trapped.

[IHTC.]

Wow....growth down (worst in Europe), productivity down (worst in Europe) living standards down. Perhaps Brexit will rescue us (NOT!!). Time for another referendum guys.

If we were stupid enough to let Labour back in to Downing street, the above figures would be like the outbreak of the Industrial Revolution! They would also reverse the will of the people of the UK and plonk us back into the EU so that we could continue to swell the coffers of the Brussels Eurocrats, who are panicking like mad now that their cash cow is leaving, hence holding us to ransom for a massive payout when we leave because funding will evaporate.

Is this some dismal attempt to deflect attention from the selfservatives? National debt now more than double what it was when they took over. National deficit now higher than it was when they took over. All that austerity and they've made it worse. You couldn't make it up.

And the alternative is what ?
Jeremy Corbyn and his merry terrorist supporting, racist, antisemitism party that are renown for plunging the country into debt ?
More bullshit promises from his "magic money tree" in his garden to attract the double vote of the unwashed and the followers of the religion we can't mention.

Venezuela.

[swampysaddler]

Allister Campbell made a good point about Brexit recently. He said : NOBODY in the Government is now talking about "what a wonderful thing Brexit is" . He is right - they are not. All they bang on about is the "will of the people". Its about time our leaders came clean, took responsibility and campaigned for another referendum. This country is in a big enough mess as it is, without the additional burden of Brexit.

As I have said before, it is parliaments job to listen to the will of the people but not necessarily abide by it. They are there to represent us, take part in debate, weigh up the pro's and cons on our behalf, but then make up their own mind. A good example is capital punishment - years ago when capital punishment was abolished, the majority of the public were for it and may be they are still today. But parliament took responsibility, did their job by debating and weighing up the evidence and coming to their OWN conclusion. As we all know, the referendum was called by Cameron for the benefit of his own party, not the country - a dreadful betrayal by a Prime Minister.

And look where we are- living standard dropping, still below 2008 levels and not expected to rise until 2023. Europe growing (look at European stock market funds if you don't believe me - arch Brexiteer John Redwood advising people to "put their money into Europe" . Productivity at dismal levels, House prices out of reach for "ordinary" people. Food banks for people who CANNOT AFFORD TO EAT. Rough sleepers on every street corner in London.

Wise up folks.....don't leave it to Boris (clever man but bored (watch him at PMQs) economical with the truth, and self serving); Gove, also clever but mad, David Davies - thinks it all a big joke. Mrs May - nice Tory lady but far more suited to garden parties and trapped.

And I stopped reading this post as soon Tony Blair's War Criminal oppo was mentioned.

[Manchester Saddler]

Allister Campbell made a good point about Brexit recently. He said : NOBODY in the Government is now talking about "what a wonderful thing Brexit is" . He is right - they are not. All they bang on about is the "will of the people". Its about time our leaders came clean, took responsibility and campaigned for another referendum. This country is in a big enough mess as it is, without the additional burden of Brexit.

As I have said before, it is parliaments job to listen to the will of the people but not necessarily abide by it. They are there to represent us, take part in debate, weigh up the pro's and cons on our behalf, but then make up their own mind. A good example is capital punishment - years ago when capital punishment was abolished, the majority of the public were for it and may be they are still today. But parliament took responsibility, did their job by debating and weighing up the evidence and coming to their OWN conclusion. As we all know, the referendum was called by Cameron for the benefit of his own party, not the country - a dreadful betrayal by a Prime Minister.

And look where we are- living standard dropping, still below 2008 levels and not expected to rise until 2023. Europe growing (look at European stock market funds if you don't believe me - arch Brexiteer John Redwood advising people to "put their money into Europe" . Productivity at dismal levels, House prices out of reach for "ordinary" people. Food banks for people who CANNOT AFFORD TO EAT. Rough sleepers on every street corner in London.

Wise up folks.....don't leave it to Boris (clever man but bored (watch him at PMQs) economical with the truth, and self serving); Gove, also clever but mad, David Davies - thinks it all a big joke. Mrs May - nice Tory lady but far more suited to garden parties and trapped.

And I stopped reading this post as soon Tony Blair's War Criminal oppo was mentioned.

And that's part of the problem. I despise Farage but I read about him - even when he's mouthing off. That is the way to make judgements on such things.

[swampysaddler]

Allister Campbell made a good point about Brexit recently. He said : NOBODY in the Government is now talking about "what a wonderful thing Brexit is" . He is right - they are not. All they bang on about is the "will of the people". Its about time our leaders came clean, took responsibility and campaigned for another referendum. This country is in a big enough mess as it is, without the additional burden of Brexit.

As I have said before, it is parliaments job to listen to the will of the people but not necessarily abide by it. They are there to represent us, take part in debate, weigh up the pro's and cons on our behalf, but then make up their own mind. A good example is capital punishment - years ago when capital punishment was abolished, the majority of the public were for it and may be they are still today. But parliament took responsibility, did their job by debating and weighing up the evidence and coming to their OWN conclusion. As we all know, the referendum was called by Cameron for the benefit of his own party, not the country - a dreadful betrayal by a Prime Minister.

And look where we are- living standard dropping, still below 2008 levels and not expected to rise until 2023. Europe growing (look at European stock market funds if you don't believe me - arch Brexiteer John Redwood advising people to "put their money into Europe" . Productivity at dismal levels, House prices out of reach for "ordinary" people. Food banks for people who CANNOT AFFORD TO EAT. Rough sleepers on every street corner in London.

Wise up folks.....don't leave it to Boris (clever man but bored (watch him at PMQs) economical with the truth, and self serving); Gove, also clever but mad, David Davies - thinks it all a big joke. Mrs May - nice Tory lady but far more suited to garden parties and trapped.

And I stopped reading this post as soon Tony Blair's War Criminal oppo was mentioned.

And that's part of the problem. I despise Farage but I read about him - even when he's mouthing off. That is the way to make judgements on such things.

What I don't get is why they (the media) even bother asking for his, Blair, Osborne, Farage (he served his purpose), Brown, Clegg etc etc for their opinions. They are has been's, in the past. Oh and add John Major to that list.
If they were in a serving government, or opposition, then yes but none of them are.
I take Anna Soubry's comments on board, same as senile Ken Clarke, even if I don't agree with them.
But any opinion off any of the above named is just that, their opinion.
Why should these nobodies listed above have the pedestal of national media ?
My opinion is as valid as their's but do I get paraded on News at 10 preaching them ?

[Manchester Saddler]

What I don't get is why they (the media) even bother asking for his, Blair, Osborne, Farage (he served his purpose), Brown, Clegg etc etc for their opinions. They are has been's, in the past. Oh and add John Major to that list.
If they were in a serving government, or opposition, then yes but none of them are.
I take Anna Soubry's comments on board, same as senile Ken Clarke, even if I don't agree with them.
But any opinion off any of the above named is just that, their opinion.
Why should these nobodies listed above have the pedestal of national media ?
My opinion is as valid as their's but do I get paraded on News at 10 preaching them ?

They have their place in history and they have experience - so they are much closer to it than you or I. And, believe it or not, many people are swayed by their opinions, no matter how much you hate them.

Sad but true.

[swampysaddler]

Allister Campbell made a good point about Brexit recently. He said : NOBODY in the Government is now talking about "what a wonderful thing Brexit is" . He is right - they are not. All they bang on about is the "will of the people". Its about time our leaders came clean, took responsibility and campaigned for another referendum. This country is in a big enough mess as it is, without the additional burden of Brexit.

As I have said before, it is parliaments job to listen to the will of the people but not necessarily abide by it. They are there to represent us, take part in debate, weigh up the pro's and cons on our behalf, but then make up their own mind. A good example is capital punishment - years ago when capital punishment was abolished, the majority of the public were for it and may be they are still today. But parliament took responsibility, did their job by debating and weighing up the evidence and coming to their OWN conclusion. As we all know, the referendum was called by Cameron for the benefit of his own party, not the country - a dreadful betrayal by a Prime Minister.

And look where we are- living standard dropping, still below 2008 levels and not expected to rise until 2023. Europe growing (look at European stock market funds if you don't believe me - arch Brexiteer John Redwood advising people to "put their money into Europe" . Productivity at dismal levels, House prices out of reach for "ordinary" people. Food banks for people who CANNOT AFFORD TO EAT. Rough sleepers on every street corner in London.

Wise up folks.....don't leave it to Boris (clever man but bored (watch him at PMQs) economical with the truth, and self serving); Gove, also clever but mad, David Davies - thinks it all a big joke. Mrs May - nice Tory lady but far more suited to garden parties and trapped.

Lovely character is Mr Campbell.
http://www.westmonster.com/alastair-cam ... -to-go-to/

With the New Statements take on his racism.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/u ... ster-lives

[Cowshed]

If we have another referendum I think we would vote to remain and I don't want that

If we had a general election then I think labour would win and I don't want that

Theresa May won't call an election however dire it gets because she wants to hang onto power

MPs won't go against the will of the people and reverse brexit because they want to hang onto power

The fact that politicians are self serving and power hungry works in my favour

Hopefully the leopards never change their spots :)

[cookyskid]

[quote="Cowshed"]If we have another referendum I think we would vote to remain and I don't want that

So the people have spoken - but they are not allowed to change their mind. You have all the intellectual capacity and moral integrity of the subject of your avatar. Well done.

[shrewsbury saddler]

If we have another referendum I think we would vote to remain and I don't want that

If we had a general election then I think labour would win and I don't want that

Theresa May won't call an election however dire it gets because she wants to hang onto power

MPs won't go against the will of the people and reverse brexit because they want to hang onto power

The fact that politicians are self serving and power hungry works in my favour

Hopefully the leopards never change their spots :)

How odd. You want MP's to be enforcing "the will of the people" while admitting that they wouldn't be.
Using your logic, no government would ever collapse. It's rather like the generalist arguments on trade pre-referendum -they're still going to want to trade with UK. There were no details; the fact that trade deals are , in reality, the devil's own job to close was ignored.

[Cowshed]

If we have another referendum I think we would vote to remain and I don't want that

So the people have spoken - but they are not allowed to change their mind. You have all the intellectual capacity and moral integrity of the subject of your avatar. Well done.

I will proceed straight to the naughty step :D

[PT]

And that's part of the problem. I despise Farage but I read about him - even when he's mouthing off. That is the way to make judgements on such things.

Completely agree with this Manchester.

Social media is taking us backwards in that it appears it gives us an opportunity to be ever more tribal. These huge echo chambers of loads of people agreeing with each other. Creating big fear of "others" who "don't get it" whilst everyone in our gang is "spot on".

My belief is that we can only progress if we understand all sides of an argument and make balanced judgement. If folk aren't careful they end up either zombieing their way to regurgitating the worst bile of parts of the right or the rampant hypocrisy of parts of the left.

[cookyskid]

If we have another referendum I think we would vote to remain and I don't want that

So the people have spoken - but they are not allowed to change their mind. You have all the intellectual capacity and moral integrity of the subject of your avatar. Well done.

I will proceed straight to the naughty step :D

Your response to my rather intemperate comments was well made, (Note to self - DO NOT post after midnight on a Saturday). On sober reflection though, I still don't understand the argument that "the people have spoken" but are not allowed to speak again if they don't like the outcome of the negotiations. Actually if there was another referendum now I don't think Remain would necessarily win, but that might change in 12 months time if we look to be crashing out of the EU with no deal. In those circumstances a second referendum would definitely be in order. If those in favour of Brexit are confident of its benefits they too should welcome such a referendum since it would give them a chance to confirm the will of the people which they seem to hold so dear. The only explanation for any Leaver opposing a second vote is that they think (like you) that they might lose it. So the 'will of the people' is obviously not so important after all.

[Cowshed]

If we have another referendum I think we would vote to remain and I don't want that

So the people have spoken - but they are not allowed to change their mind. You have all the intellectual capacity and moral integrity of the subject of your avatar. Well done.

I will proceed straight to the naughty step :D

Your response to my rather intemperate comments was well made, (Note to self - DO NOT post after midnight on a Saturday). On sober reflection though, I still don't understand the argument that "the people have spoken" but are not allowed to speak again if they don't like the outcome of the negotiations. Actually if there was another referendum now I don't think Remain would necessarily win, but that might change in 12 months time if we look to be crashing out of the EU with no deal. In those circumstances a second referendum would definitely be in order. If those in favour of Brexit are confident of its benefits they too should welcome such a referendum since it would give them a chance to confirm the will of the people which they seem to hold so dear. The only explanation for any Leaver opposing a second vote is that they think (like you) that they might lose it. So the 'will of the people' is obviously not so important after all.

It's no problem I wouldn't post if I couldn't take stick

I suppose my point was MPs won't risk their own position by taking a chance on another referendum/election and at present that suits me. I don't think I'm Alone .

[swampysaddler]

The argument for another referendum is on the basis of people have changed their minds since last year.
That is fair enough but my argument on why we don't need another is this :
Hypothetically say we have another vote and the result is the same, or even more percentage to the Leave side, what happens then ?
We carry on having votes until Remain win ? Best of 5, 7, 9, scenario until Remain finally are victorious ?
Or the other scenario, Remain win. And that is it then ? Remain win and we stay in the EU no matter what ?
No re-run because Leave wasn't victorious ?
There will be anarchy across the country if that happened.
And don't give me this bollocks that the vote was "none binding". If Remain had won there would be no argument about the legality of the vote.
It was a simple question on the ballot paper last year, a, do you want to remain in the EU ?, or b, do you want to leave the EU ?
The votes were counted and verified and Leave had the higher percentage.
There ends the argument of remaining or leaving.
Changing your mind. That is like me buying a Subway, taking a bite, and saying "I don't want that now, money back please".
Democracy was handed out last year, the vote was taken and we are Leaving.

[cookyskid]

But democracy, if it means anything, is about the electorate's ability to change its mind. Otherwise why have elections every 4 or 5 years (or 2 in the case of the recent one). What are leavers afraid of? If they are confident that their case for leaving the EU is robust they should be more than happy to put it before the public once the terms of the deal on offer are clear. If that ever happens of course. One thing that is increasingly clear, to me at any rate, is that the present Government is totally incompetent and doesn't have a clue about negotiating alternative trading arrangements when (if) we leave the EU. This leads me to conclude that we would be far better off being led by people in mainland Europe who know what they are doing, rather than the useless idiots who comprise the current UK Government. :wink:

In case you hadn't guessed the last bit was a bit tongue-in-cheek, BUT doesn't hide the fact that this is the most pathetic excuse for a government in my lifetime (which includes every one from Macmillan to the present day).

[Manchester Saddler]

But democracy, if it means anything, is about the electorate's ability to change its mind. Otherwise why have elections every 4 or 5 years (or 2 in the case of the recent one). What are leavers afraid of? If they are confident that their case for leaving the EU is robust they should be more than happy to put it before the public once the terms of the deal on offer are clear. If that ever happens of course. One thing that is increasingly clear, to me at any rate, is that the present Government is totally incompetent and doesn't have a clue about negotiating alternative trading arrangements when (if) we leave the EU. This leads me to conclude that we would be far better off being led by people in mainland Europe who know what they are doing, rather than the useless idiots who comprise the current UK Government. :wink:

In case you hadn't guessed the last bit was a bit tongue-in-cheek, BUT doesn't hide the fact that this is the most pathetic excuse for a government in my lifetime (which includes every one from Macmillan to the present day).

Agreed.

It's the angry Brexiteers who are afraid in case they lose. There are no positives about Brexit. I keep asking and nobody can answer me. Doesn't that confirm that I am right?

[cookyskid]

.
Changing your mind. That is like me buying a Subway, taking a bite, and saying "I don't want that now, money back please".
Democracy was handed out last year, the vote was taken and we are Leaving.

If I found out that they had put a big steaming turd in the sandwich I'd be fully entitled to take it back. :D