Why doesn't Tony Blair go **** himself?

[Wragbyred]

I see he's spouting off again about reversing the Brexit vote?
What is it that this arrogant twerp doesn't understand, whether you agree with the vote result or not, a majority of the population voted to leave. To me that's democracy, the "will of the people"

What does he have to lose through leaving?

[chunkster]

He is lucky that he isn't serving a life sentence for mass murder :evil:

[yoda]

An interesting thing was pointed out to me yesterday (and this is a worldwide thing, not just UK).

Have you ever noticed when there's a vote on a change and the status quo wins, there's always lobbying and talk of another vote straight away (See Scotland's Indy Ref 2)?
However when the vote goes in the direction of making he change, it's like 'Well, that's it. We are completely locked into this course of action now and there's no turning back whatsoever. No rethinking our plans."

I'd love to read some papers from some behavioural experts on it.

[yoda]

a majority of the population voted to leave. ?

I'm not bothered either way about the vote result but I feel I should point out this is factually incorrect. The majority of the countries population did not vote to leave.

[Wragbyred]

Ah, but Yoda, it all depends what country you're referring to :wink:

But, I know what you're saying

[yoda]

True but I was thinking more of those that didn't vote (like myself) or couldn't vote (age, ineligibility, etc). Members of the overall population but didn't explicitly vote to leave.

You make a good point but I couldn't even begin to guess Scots actions.

[SaigonSaddler]

There is absolutely no reason for there not to be another vote in the future - be it short, medium or long term, if the impact of Brexit is clearly negative or if there is sufficient demand for it, or if a party has it as a manifesto pledge and is elected.

I don't see why there is a call for it to be some kind of locked down result that we have to slavishly adhere to in perpetuity. It was hardly the emphatic result that some claim.

I suspect pragmatism will win in the end, and the UK will have a very similar agreement to the one we have just left, just with a couple decades of pain that we have gifted ourselves.

[Manchester Saddler]

I see he's spouting off again about reversing the Brexit vote?
What is it that this arrogant twerp doesn't understand, whether you agree with the vote result or not, a majority of the population voted to leave. To me that's democracy, the "will of the people"

What does he have to lose through leaving?

Everybody has the right to an opinion and the right to voice that opinion. For example, I have to listen to the likes of Nigel Farage and Theresa May.

I am not a fan of Tony Blair but there are still 48% of the people like him who voted who think we have made a huge mistake and the country is still very much divided over this matter - despite what the papers and media say.

The only way to understand this division is to listen to what the other side is saying - and I have been trying to do that.

You cannot just dismiss this as "arrogant". It is important. You should listen to try to understand why the 48% still believe this is a mistake.

You cannot simply dismiss the views of the 48%.

[tinned]

You cannot simply dismiss the views of the 48%.

What about the views of the 52%?????

I understood it to be a vote on deciding if we exited the EU or not. I didn't realise it was only a temporary decision until the minority get their way in the end!

[Manchester Saddler]

You cannot simply dismiss the views of the 48%.

What about the views of the 52%?????

I understood it to be a vote on deciding if we exited the EU or not. I didn't realise it was only a temporary decision until the minority get their way in the end!

The thing is, Tinned, that we hear nothing BUT the views of the 52% in the media and when a Remainer actually voices his or her opinion they are deemed "arrogant", "undemocratic" etc. etc.

From a personal perspective, as a Remainer, I have actually been more proactive in trying to listen to the opinions of the 52% and trying to find out why they voted the way they did.

The other thing is that people change their minds. You only have to look at the result of the last general election to see that! It would be interesting if there were a referendum again to see what would happen. People change their minds sometimes, particularly when they understand more about what they are voting for.

We vote for a new government every five years (or every two years if you think you are going to have a massive landslide :lol: ). If the statement "I didn't realise it was only a temporary decision until the minority get their way in the end" were used in the real world, we would never have a chance to change our minds. Imagine if we still had Tony Blair as PM simply because we all made a choice back in 1997 and weren't allowed to change it!

:D

[tinned]

We all know, when we vote in a general election, that it's for a maximum of 5 years. If suddenly it was changed so that it was a decision we were stuck with for ever then everybody would be understandably up in arms. The referendum was put to us as a once in a lifetime, one off decision. The country decided based on that understanding. Some people are now trying to move the goalposts after the event.

[Manchester Saddler]

And why not? Voters in the referendum weren't given all the facts (on either side if we're honest).

If people aren't allowed to question decisions then the world will be a bad place.

The difference was just over a million.

16 million people at least are still dumbfounded by this.

We have to question things - particularly as the facts actually start to appear.

[leics_saddler]

Bliar can very well be dismissed as utterly arrogant and deluded.
It's been barely a week since Chilcott just stopped short of burying him once and for all, when he had the chance.
Yet he sees this an opportunity to go on the offensive about a matter where his opinion is utterly irrelevant.
How typical of him to try and deflect attention away from his crimes in this opportunistic manner.
Spin at its very worst and least relevant.

[SaigonSaddler]

You cannot simply dismiss the views of the 48%.

What about the views of the 52%?????

fudge em.

Idiots ... :D :wink:

[Whitters]

People change their minds sometimes, particularly when they understand more about what they are voting for.

That's the key for me.
The voting system is flawed.
It needs to include a series of questions to gauge a person's understanding of issues before they are allowed to vote in any election.
I have a lot of relatives on my facebook thing and it's clear they have little knowledge of many of the issues yet they keep coming back with inflammatory stuff.
It's not just Brexit but religion etc.
I'd unfriend the scum but don't want to upset the family.

[NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD]

One vote per person ,one day to vote,who ever or how many turn out it is part of the system .Its democracy,job done.these are the rules we live by ,please all of you remainers once and for all accept this.No replays, No penalty shoot outs ,Its done and dusted.Move on and support Brexit whether you agree or not.

[SaigonSaddler]

One vote per person ,one day to vote,who ever or how many turn out it is part of the system .Its democracy,job done.these are the rules we live by ,please all of you remainers once and for all accept this.No replays, No penalty shoot outs ,Its done and dusted.Move on and support Brexit whether you agree or not.

'Done and dusted'

When the implications are at the threshold of the beginning of the start of being revealed.

The point of democracy is the ability to disagree, and when new or more relevant information comes to light, change a view. Not adhere dogmatically to a one time decision based, as many would agree, on a less than complete overview of the facts.

[Manchester Saddler]

Bliar can very well be dismissed as utterly arrogant and deluded.
It's been barely a week since Chilcott just stopped short of burying him once and for all, when he had the chance.
Yet he sees this an opportunity to go on the offensive about a matter where his opinion is utterly irrelevant.
How typical of him to try and deflect attention away from his crimes in this opportunistic manner.
Spin at its very worst and least relevant.

No he can't be dismissed. He's no more deluded than anybody else who voted in the referendum.

If he were trying to deflect attention from his crimes he would stay silent.

You cannot ignore Remainers, no matter how obnoxious they seem and how much you hate them,

[Manchester Saddler]

One vote per person ,one day to vote,who ever or how many turn out it is part of the system .Its democracy,job done.these are the rules we live by ,please all of you remainers once and for all accept this.No replays, No penalty shoot outs ,Its done and dusted.Move on and support Brexit whether you agree or not.

It is not done and dusted, though NSD. As the pitfalls that accompany Brexit are starting to come out of the woodwork, it is becoming clear that this will not be a walk in the park and there will be hard times ahead. The country is totally divided. Political parties are totally divided - and the only reason remainer politicians (the majority I hasten to add) are biting their lips is because of the referendum result, They don't want to ruin their own careers by speaking out against the result of the vote.

This matter needs to be debated and the consequences need to be aired and brought to the public's attention.

From a personal perspective, I shall never support Brexit - but I will try to understand it.

And almost half the country agree with me (possibly more).

[saddla]

One vote per person ,one day to vote,who ever or how many turn out it is part of the system .Its democracy,job done.these are the rules we live by ,please all of you remainers once and for all accept this.No replays, No penalty shoot outs ,Its done and dusted.Move on and support Brexit whether you agree or not.

If that was the case, when we voted for membership in 1975, that should have been it. After all you can't go back on what over 67% of the voters voted for. It was a much bigger majority for remain than for leaving this time.

[Exile]

One vote per person ,one day to vote,who ever or how many turn out it is part of the system .Its democracy,job done.these are the rules we live by ,please all of you remainers once and for all accept this.No replays, No penalty shoot outs ,Its done and dusted.Move on and support Brexit whether you agree or not.

What sort of Brexit did you vote for?

[NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD]

One vote per person ,one day to vote,who ever or how many turn out it is part of the system .Its democracy,job done.these are the rules we live by ,please all of you remainers once and for all accept this.No replays, No penalty shoot outs ,Its done and dusted.Move on and support Brexit whether you agree or not.

What sort of Brexit did you vote for?

That question wasn't on the ballot paper,

[swampysaddler]

Just a quick question Saigon, Manchester, Saddla and all you other remainers, if the result had been the other way round and the remain camp had won by 4% do you think we would still be discussing the subject over a year after the event ?
No we wouldn't.
Us Leavers would be told to "wind our neck in, you lost accept it".
Why can't you remainers accept a result ?
Because the result was not expected, bit like Wimbledon in the 88 FA Cup Final.
It happened, get over it and let's try and make the best we can of the situation.
And Saddla as for your quote "It was a much bigger majority for remain than for leaving this time" that might be true if these remainers crying into their brews about the result had actually got off their arse's and gone and put an "X" in the box. They couldn't be bothered to do this but then moan like bitches when the result is not what they like. So who is to blame for that ? Us 52% that backed the winning team ? Or them that couldn't be arsed to leave Jeremy Kyle for 10 minutes and go and vote ?
I know what the answer is.

[derbysaddler]

Bullshit, if the vote was close the other way Farage and Co would have immediately started demanding a new referendum due to the close nature of the voting results.

[swampysaddler]

Bullshit, if the vote was close the other way Farage and Co would have immediately started demanding a new referendum due to the close nature of the voting results.

Well the obvious reason the vote was so close is due to all these preaching how good the EU is for us and how we need to stay in the EU is due to them just gobbing off and not bothering voting because they thought it was a forgone conclusion we would remain in the EU and couldn't be arsed to vote.
Is that the fault of us Leavers that did make the effort to vote ?
No, it is their own fault for being arrogant and presuming that their vote wasn't required because it was already decided we would remain, wake up call remainers "YOU LOST" so accept it and move on.
Next people will be wanting a recount on the Eurovision !!!

[reedswood sadler]

One vote per person ,one day to vote,who ever or how many turn out it is part of the system .Its democracy,job done.these are the rules we live by ,please all of you remainers once and for all accept this.No replays, No penalty shoot outs ,Its done and dusted.Move on and support Brexit whether you agree or not.

If that was the case, when we voted for membership in 1975, that should have been it. After all you can't go back on what over 67% of the voters voted for. It was a much bigger majority for remain than for leaving this time.

My memory is not so good these days but I don't think we ever had a vote to join the E U, I stand to be corrected as I am on way to being senile but I do remember that I voted to join the Common Market for trade not everything else that comes with it now.

[NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD]

One vote per person ,one day to vote,who ever or how many turn out it is part of the system .Its democracy,job done.these are the rules we live by ,please all of you remainers once and for all accept this.No replays, No penalty shoot outs ,Its done and dusted.Move on and support Brexit whether you agree or not.

If that was the case, when we voted for membership in 1975, that should have been it. After all you can't go back on what over 67% of the voters voted for. It was a much bigger majority for remain than for leaving this time.

My memory is not so good these days but I don't think we ever had a vote to join the E U, I stand to be corrected as I am on way to being senile but I do remember that I voted to join the Common Market for trade not everything else that comes with it now.

It seems we weren't allowed a vote when we joined.But there was a referendum to decide whether we stayed in later.Just like the one we had last year but with a different result.

[Manchester Saddler]

Bullshit, if the vote was close the other way Farage and Co would have immediately started demanding a new referendum due to the close nature of the voting results.

Well the obvious reason the vote was so close is due to all these preaching how good the EU is for us and how we need to stay in the EU is due to them just gobbing off and not bothering voting because they thought it was a forgone conclusion we would remain in the EU and couldn't be arsed to vote.
Is that the fault of us Leavers that did make the effort to vote ?
No, it is their own fault for being arrogant and presuming that their vote wasn't required because it was already decided we would remain, wake up call remainers "YOU LOST" so accept it and move on.
Next people will be wanting a recount on the Eurovision !!!

Swampy - Nigel Farage had a contingency plan to try to force a second referendum if he lost. That fact is well documented.

And if you do some research on the subject, something I suggest you do, I think you will find that the Jeremy Kyle brigade are mainly Brexiteers and did vote. They are also generally a lot older and more politically motivated with a high level of distrust of immigration and globalisation. I have had "discussions" with older family members who want life to be like it was in the 1950s and 1960s and find the prospect of having the ability to live and work in the EU as abhorrent as living next door to French people.

I'm not saying all older people are like that but when you look at the figures the majority of older people did vote Brexit. If only younger people (mainly Remainers) had turned out in the numbers they did to bring Theresa May down to earth,

The "You LOST! Move on!" mentality is surprising because I suspect that you, Swampy mate, would have been up in arms had the result gone the other way. Only David Cameron said this was a "one off" referendum - and as you know, this is the same man who said he would see us through whatever the result. Look what happened after that.

This is not cast in stone and if the government recognise that there is a possibility of economic catastrophe, they will change their minds. They are not going to let the UK self-destruct based on a vote difference of 4%.

[Manchester Saddler]

One vote per person ,one day to vote,who ever or how many turn out it is part of the system .Its democracy,job done.these are the rules we live by ,please all of you remainers once and for all accept this.No replays, No penalty shoot outs ,Its done and dusted.Move on and support Brexit whether you agree or not.

If that was the case, when we voted for membership in 1975, that should have been it. After all you can't go back on what over 67% of the voters voted for. It was a much bigger majority for remain than for leaving this time.

My memory is not so good these days but I don't think we ever had a vote to join the E U, I stand to be corrected as I am on way to being senile but I do remember that I voted to join the Common Market for trade not everything else that comes with it now.

It seems we weren't allowed a vote when we joined.But there was a referendum to decide whether we stayed in later.Just like the one we had last year but with a different result.

We did vote to join the common market. But it evolved - as things do.

[swampysaddler]

Bullshit, if the vote was close the other way Farage and Co would have immediately started demanding a new referendum due to the close nature of the voting results.

Well the obvious reason the vote was so close is due to all these preaching how good the EU is for us and how we need to stay in the EU is due to them just gobbing off and not bothering voting because they thought it was a forgone conclusion we would remain in the EU and couldn't be arsed to vote.
Is that the fault of us Leavers that did make the effort to vote ?
No, it is their own fault for being arrogant and presuming that their vote wasn't required because it was already decided we would remain, wake up call remainers "YOU LOST" so accept it and move on.
Next people will be wanting a recount on the Eurovision !!!

Swampy - Nigel Farage had a contingency plan to try to force a second referendum if he lost. That fact is well documented.

And if you do some research on the subject, something I suggest you do, I think you will find that the Jeremy Kyle brigade are mainly Brexiteers and did vote. They are also generally a lot older and more politically motivated with a high level of distrust of immigration and globalisation. I have had "discussions" with older family members who want life to be like it was in the 1950s and 1960s and find the prospect of having the ability to live and work in the EU as abhorrent as living next door to French people.

I'm not saying all older people are like that but when you look at the figures the majority of older people did vote Brexit. If only younger people (mainly Remainers) had turned out in the numbers they did to bring Theresa May down to earth,

The "You LOST! Move on!" mentality is surprising because I suspect that you, Swampy mate, would have been up in arms had the result gone the other way. Only David Cameron said this was a "one off" referendum - and as you know, this is the same man who said he would see us through whatever the result. Look what happened after that.

This is not cast in stone and if the government recognise that there is a possibility of economic catastrophe, they will change their minds. They are not going to let the UK self-destruct based on a vote difference of 4%.

Bit like Tim nice but dim Farron preaching a 2nd referendum if he was elected and then jumped ship when shown his arse in the election blaming he couldn't differentiate between his religious views and political views.


And therein lies the argument on this subject. They did vote in the GE and we have seen the result of them putting effort in but moan about us leaving the EU but couldn't muster the energy to cast a vote and then cry like babies when it doesn't go their way. Everybody of legal age in this country had the chance to vote last year. Is it the fault of leavers that they couldn't be bothered ?


And what do you think will be the outcome will be if a Government ignore the will of the people, minority it maybe, and go against a democratic vote that was offered to every legal resident in the UK ?