ENG v South Africa: Test series

[shrewsbury saddler]

Well, Root has won his first toss and makes an easy decision to bat. Slightly strange team selection, which Root had a major say in. Two spinners at Lords is rare. Someone at the weekend suggested Dawson has been selected to give Moeen Ali a little nudge, as his test bowling has stagnated.

Can't help thinking South Africa are a little overpriced at 7/2 for the series. They've a good away record and last year won in NZ and Aus without de Villiers and mainly without Steyn. They've an especially good record in England. These series are nearly always close and i don't think this will be any different. My prediction 1-1.

[El_Nombre]

8 primary batsmen is way too many, particularly with Broad and Wood in a side.

[shrewsbury saddler]

8 primary batsmen is way too many, particularly with Broad and Wood in a side.

But they're playing six bowlers as it is. You're not suggesting a seventh for one of the batsmen, are you?

[El_Nombre]

8 primary batsmen is way too many, particularly with Broad and Wood in a side.

But they're playing six bowlers as it is. You're not suggesting a seventh for one of the batsmen, are you?

Yes there's six of them that can bowl but 3 are better with the bat than they are with the ball! I'm suggesting we drop one of them and play a bowler that might actually take wickets at better than 30 odd. Especially with Mark Wood and Stuart Broad at 9 and 10. It's absolute overkill. Obviously not drop a batsmen.

I really don't get the inclusion of Dawson. Averages 36 in FC cricket. Can't see him ripping it a Lords.

[shrewsbury saddler]

8 primary batsmen is way too many, particularly with Broad and Wood in a side.

But they're playing six bowlers as it is. You're not suggesting a seventh for one of the batsmen, are you?

Yes there's six of them that can bowl but 3 are better with the bat than they are with the ball! I'm suggesting we drop one of them and play a bowler that might actually take wickets at better than 30 odd. Especially with Mark Wood and Stuart Broad at 9 and 10. It's absolute overkill. Obviously not drop a batsmen.

I really don't get the inclusion of Dawson. Averages 36 in FC cricket. Can't see him ripping it a Lords.

Part of that problem is that Moeen should really be batting higher, but gets vertigo if he goes higher than about six. Before the end of the summer it's likely Crane will come in for him or Dawson, who I think are competing for one place at most.Remember as well, they're missing Woakes, who can bat but bowls better.

[El_Nombre]

8 primary batsmen is way too many, particularly with Broad and Wood in a side.

But they're playing six bowlers as it is. You're not suggesting a seventh for one of the batsmen, are you?

Yes there's six of them that can bowl but 3 are better with the bat than they are with the ball! I'm suggesting we drop one of them and play a bowler that might actually take wickets at better than 30 odd. Especially with Mark Wood and Stuart Broad at 9 and 10. It's absolute overkill. Obviously not drop a batsmen.

I really don't get the inclusion of Dawson. Averages 36 in FC cricket. Can't see him ripping it a Lords.

Part of that problem is that Moeen should really be batting higher, but gets vertigo if he goes higher than about six. Before the end of the summer it's likely Crane will come in for him or Dawson, who I think are competing for one place at most.Remember as well, they're missing Woakes, who can bat but bowls better.

Yeah Woakes comes back in to this side easily and does add to the bowling to be fair.

Personally I'd have preferred Roland-Jones in the side over Dawson, put him at ten and move Broad and Wood up. Then if we do get a spinning top in this series he drops out for Crane.

That way you still have batting all the way down to number 9 but you also have 4 front line seemers, an all rounder and a spinner.

Although looking at this start we might have to put 11 batsmen out...

[shrewsbury saddler]

I think you're overrating Broad's abilities with the bat these days. He's not scored above 20 for 18 months, no 50 since 2013. His average is basically propped up by the first half of his career.

[El_Nombre]

I think you're overrating Broad's abilities with the bat these days. He's not scored above 20 for 18 months, no 50 since 2013. His average is basically propped up by the first half of his career.

To be fair I'd still only have him at 8 in that selection. If you are relying on your number 8 to dig you out of trouble then you need to be asking questions of the batsmen, not changing the bowlers around.

[shrewsbury saddler]

I think in this era, any team that had three batsmen in it worse than Broad would be considered to have an abnormally long tail. Since he had that ball go through his grill, he's basically been a tail-ender.

[El_Nombre]

I think in this era, any team that had three batsmen in it worse than Broad would be considered to have an abnormally long tail. Since he had that ball go through his grill, he's basically been a tail-ender.

A team with 2 batsmen at 8 and 9 that average in the 20s would not be considered an "abnormally large tail". Drop Broad down if you really think that little of him then because Mark Wood is also handy with the bat.

My point is your players at 8-11 aren't the ones that should be selected for their batting prowess. Dawson clearly has been because if he is the 4th best bowler in England then I there's still hope for me!

[shrewsbury saddler]

I think it all comes back to Moeen. I think it's possible that the selectors are running out of patience with him and that having him coming in at 7/8 is nice, but not justified by what he's contributing with the ball. The problem would solve itself if he could bat higher up, at 3 especially,, but he's shown he can't. On that reasoning, Dawson would play both a a kick up the backside and as an experiment for the spinner you'll play when spin is unlikely to play much of a part. As you say, Crane would than come in on wickets expected to need more spin.

[El_Nombre]

I take all of the above back. We need all the help we can get with batting performances like this.

[shrewsbury saddler]

Not the best of mornings for Ballance, but how much did Root contribute to his decision to review his plumb lbw? I haven't seen the whole incident. Another brittle performance from England's batting, but Philander did well. I think Mcgrath liked Lords, and Philander's nickname is "Glenn."

I think long-term England are going to have to do something about the balance of their batting. I'm not sure how significant it was today, but three accumulators at the top, than a middle order packed with stroke -makers just doesn't look right. Given that Hales has been tried and failed as a Test opener, I think the short-term solution is for Root to move up to three. Ballance will, I suppose, get a least a couple more games, and should move down the order. Although whether he ever will cement a test place is very doubtful.

[El_Nombre]

Stokes making this pitch look extremely flat now. I don't know whether that's good news or bad...

[shrewsbury saddler]

Stokes making this pitch look extremely flat now. I don't know whether that's good news or bad...

On the betting England still seem to be favourites. Not so sure myself. There does appear to have been a good bit of money on the draw.


https://www.oddschecker.com/cricket/eng ... ica/winner

[shrewsbury saddler]

England now go through a session without losing a wicket. Stokes was well bowled-off a no ball. Morkel now apparently has "taken" 13 wickets with no balls. When will they learn? The review Rabada had when it hit Root's' helmet , was to me a clear no ball. I'm not sure what doubt the third umpire was giving the bowler.

The pitch now seems to have settled. But there are clear cracks in it.It seems to be the same pitch used in the ODI final at the weekend. It might come down to which of our two mediocre spinners does better. And not just in relation to this test. I'd say England have to get at least 400, as I can see the pitch playing well for the next couple of days. After that....

[boringteacher]

Fine, brave but lucky recovery. The top order fills me with no confidence whatsoever, a good thing really that we have world class 4,5 and 6 or we'd have been rolled for 220 today. Even in the last session, there was quite a bit in the pitch for seam and spin so 400+ is a decent score, and I'd think we are are faves unless we get knocked over quickly tomorrow.

We won't get away with that in convict land :(

[shrewsbury saddler]

Fine, brave but lucky recovery. The top order fills me with no confidence whatsoever, a good thing really that we have world class 4,5 and 6 or we'd have been rolled for 220 today. Even in the last session, there was quite a bit in the pitch for seam and spin so 400+ is a decent score, and I'd think we are are faves unless we get knocked over quickly tomorrow.

We won't get away with that in convict land :(

"The Verdict" should be interesting tonight. I expect Bob will be saying pretty much the same thing.

[Exile]

Interesting day. No excuse for 76-4 if you've chosen to bat. Good stand from Root to recover a desperate situation.

Broad is only good for batting 11 based on current form, unless England pick a bowler who is an absolute bunny.

[El_Nombre]

I always think 400 plus is a good score. You should be in control of the test match from there even if you can't force a win.

I still think the selection is a little "safe", particularly with the selected all rounder still to come at 357-5, but it's done.

I hope Moeen gets a little freedom this morning to come out and play his shots, he deserves it for the shift he put in yesterday. It's as you were for captain Root. I've had a cheeky bet on him to lose his wicket in the next 10 runs though. It always seems difficult the next day if you make a good score but he's more than done enough already. Hopefully my bet doesn't come in!

After that it's all down to the pitch. It looks a little green and there are cracks but I can see this being a good pitch for another two days at least. Could do with a bit of cloud for Jimmy!

[shrewsbury saddler]

It really was self-destruct from SA. Apart from the no balls, I'm still trying to work out how long leg managed to let that Root top edge go over his head when it landed inside the boundary. I doubt if Elgar will captain again after this. Why no Duminy when their first spinner was so clearly struggling?

[El_Nombre]

SHOW ME THE MONEY! All £10.50. Including stake.

[Exile]

I always think 400 plus is a good score. You should be in control of the test match from there even if you can't force a win.

I still think the selection is a little "safe", particularly with the selected all rounder still to come at 357-5, but it's done.

I hope Moeen gets a little freedom this morning to come out and play his shots, he deserves it for the shift he put in yesterday. It's as you were for captain Root. I've had a cheeky bet on him to lose his wicket in the next 10 runs though. It always seems difficult the next day if you make a good score but he's more than done enough already. Hopefully my bet doesn't come in!

After that it's all down to the pitch. It looks a little green and there are cracks but I can see this being a good pitch for another two days at least. Could do with a bit of cloud for Jimmy!

Good call on your Root bet.

[shrewsbury saddler]

"I've had a cheeky bet on him to lose his wicket in the next 10 runs though. It always seems difficult the next day if you make a good score but he's more than done enough already. Hopefully my bet doesn't come in!"
You won it. Just! What were the odds?

[Exile]

...and the wheels fall off. Let's hope Joe did enough!

[El_Nombre]

"I've had a cheeky bet on him to lose his wicket in the next 10 runs though. It always seems difficult the next day if you make a good score but he's more than done enough already. Hopefully my bet doesn't come in!"
You won it. Just! What were the odds?

Not great haha. 5/2.

[El_Nombre]

Oh dear ... Think it's pretty crucial we get past the 400 mark...

[shrewsbury saddler]

...and the wheels fall off. Let's hope Joe did enough!

Dawson out second ball. If it is a straight fight between him and Ali, round one goes to Ali.
Another howler from Elgar. Broad out-not reviewed.

[El_Nombre]

Good innings that from Moeen. Now the bottom three can chuck their hands at everything.

[shrewsbury saddler]

1/4 hour to lunch> What's the betting Elgar will cap an awful morning by getting out and wasting a review?