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ENG v South Africa: Test series

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Over The Moon
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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:12 am

El_Nombre wrote:
Over The Moon wrote:
shrewsbury saddler wrote:There was an article in the i this morning about Bayliss,I can't seem to find online, which basically asked, "what exactly does he do?" i've been wondering the same thing for a while. He gives the impression of being laid-back and in control, but he's increasingly looking like a teenage slacker-always an excuse as to why he did nothing.He hasn't even watched Stoneman play. He seems very good at delegating.I don't think he'll survive past a bad Ashes.Which, at the moment is likely to be what we'll get.

Edit. Found it.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cric ... 47561.html


I think Bayliss just let's Farbrace get on with the coaching, which makes you wonder what the hell does he do, if he isn't going around the grounds looking at players like Stoneman, I suppose he will say that's the selectors job.
I think he was brought in mainly to improve the one day side after the shocking performances in 2015 World Cup and to be fair he has done, but the test performances on the whole haven't when England lose, they lose badly like in India, this test against SA and the first test defeat to Bangladesh, like you say lose this series against SA, the Ashes and he will be out on his backside.


It's an interesting article. I'm dubious about the effectiveness of all head coaches, not just Bayliss. Once the initial philosophy of a head coach is implemented what else does he do? As you say, the selection and player development can be "blamed" on others. The philosophy remains the same whether you are playing Bangladesh in Asia or Australia at home. You don't need a head coach to say "it might spin a bit here" in the middle of the desert and vice verse.

It's a good point about the one day team too, he and Strauss are clearly focusing on that format more than they are the test arena, which greatly worries me.

To be fair to Bayliss his philosophy was radically different to his predecessors and worked to begin with but it is very much a case of what have you done for me lately? As a person who watches test match cricket and doesn't really bother with ODI games that is not a lot. He needs to make changes for the third test in my opinion and they need to work. Not just him but the selectors too. I genuinely can't work out the logic at the moment. The logic of playing Liam Dawson as a front line batting spinner in a team that bats to 7 at worst. The logic of playing Gary Ballance at all, never mind at number 3. The logic of playing two spinners at Trent Bridge, granted SAs spinner turned it a bit more than previous matches there but I feel that would have been luck rather than judgement considering what we know about the place.


Wasn't it Shane Warne who said about his old Aussie coach John Buchanan, he should have only been there to drive the coach because the Aussie team of that time didn't need much coaching

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shrewsbury saddler
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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:19 am

shrewsbury saddler wrote:Even with white ball, I'm not sure how big an influence he's been, and how much more it's down to Farbrace and Morgan. There was a distinct improvement against NZ 2015 before he came.

" I'm dubious about the effectiveness of all head coaches, not just Bayliss." So am I, which makes you wonder why they're paying him 500 grand a year, and whether the set-up would look much different without him. Why not Farbrace, the selectors and the respective captains?

i should have added Gibson to that list. He seems like a decent fast bowling coach. Although at the risk of repeating myself, he might be bemoaning his materials in six months time.

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shrewsbury saddler
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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:35 pm

Over The Moon wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
Over The Moon wrote:
shrewsbury saddler wrote:There was an article in the i this morning about Bayliss,I can't seem to find online, which basically asked, "what exactly does he do?" i've been wondering the same thing for a while. He gives the impression of being laid-back and in control, but he's increasingly looking like a teenage slacker-always an excuse as to why he did nothing.He hasn't even watched Stoneman play. He seems very good at delegating.I don't think he'll survive past a bad Ashes.Which, at the moment is likely to be what we'll get.

Edit. Found it.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cric ... 47561.html


I think Bayliss just let's Farbrace get on with the coaching, which makes you wonder what the hell does he do, if he isn't going around the grounds looking at players like Stoneman, I suppose he will say that's the selectors job.
I think he was brought in mainly to improve the one day side after the shocking performances in 2015 World Cup and to be fair he has done, but the test performances on the whole haven't when England lose, they lose badly like in India, this test against SA and the first test defeat to Bangladesh, like you say lose this series against SA, the Ashes and he will be out on his backside.


It's an interesting article. I'm dubious about the effectiveness of all head coaches, not just Bayliss. Once the initial philosophy of a head coach is implemented what else does he do? As you say, the selection and player development can be "blamed" on others. The philosophy remains the same whether you are playing Bangladesh in Asia or Australia at home. You don't need a head coach to say "it might spin a bit here" in the middle of the desert and vice verse.

It's a good point about the one day team too, he and Strauss are clearly focusing on that format more than they are the test arena, which greatly worries me.

To be fair to Bayliss his philosophy was radically different to his predecessors and worked to begin with but it is very much a case of what have you done for me lately? As a person who watches test match cricket and doesn't really bother with ODI games that is not a lot. He needs to make changes for the third test in my opinion and they need to work. Not just him but the selectors too. I genuinely can't work out the logic at the moment. The logic of playing Liam Dawson as a front line batting spinner in a team that bats to 7 at worst. The logic of playing Gary Ballance at all, never mind at number 3. The logic of playing two spinners at Trent Bridge, granted SAs spinner turned it a bit more than previous matches there but I feel that would have been luck rather than judgement considering what we know about the place.


Wasn't it Shane Warne who said about his old Aussie coach John Buchanan, he should have only been there to drive the coach because the Aussie team of that time didn't need much coaching


I suppose that if there's one thing an international coach should be doing, it's helping new players make the step-up- from county to international cricket. If you're not even bothering to watch potentials in the flesh, how can you do this? I don't watch much county cricket, but even the bit I do shows how things like body-language and placement of shots are important. Something you don't really see on TV. I think history will show Bayliss as riding his career on the backs of others. Must be worrying when you know you're going to be be found out-the anticipated pay-off might lessen the worry, though.

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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:37 am

When's Pieterson coming back ?

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shrewsbury saddler
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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:47 am

Kevlar wrote:When's Pieterson coming back ?

When Jimmy becomes the next England coach.

El_Nombre
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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:32 pm

Dawid Malan and Tom Westley in for the injured Gary Ballance.

Again ... I just don't get the logic. Tom Westley comes straight in for Ballance, fine. He's having a good season. He'll come in at number 3. That's really hard, especially with SA's attack.

Malan comes in in case they want to play an extra batsmen. What?! Play an extra batsmen for who? Dawson? I mean I haven't really been impressed with his spinning but that's just ... crazy. We have 3 bowling specialists in this squad, Broad, Anderson and Wood. 2 of those aren't exactly terrible with the bat. Why on earth would we need an extra batsmen?

No Crane. No Stoneman (Jennings keeps his place).

They seem absolutely scrambled at the moment, I just don't get it. I get the feeling they would have only brought Malan in if it wasn't for the injury.

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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:22 am

Should have bowled :(

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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:25 am

I'm actually pleased for Liam Dawson that he got dropped. I actually feel for him. He's been asked to do a job he clearly wasn't ready for.

Shame they didn't get the Jennings one right either though.

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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:08 am

Cook has been excellent so far - and Westley has impressed thus far.

I hope my first post was wrong - but I was delighted to see Philander only get 4 overs. Probably the best new ball bowler in the world - pleasingly strange decision.

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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:17 am

boringteacher wrote:Cook has been excellent so far - and Westley has impressed thus far.

I hope my first post was wrong - but I was delighted to see Philander only get 4 overs. Probably the best new ball bowler in the world - pleasingly strange decision.

So far, so good. Jennings is a walking wicket anyway. Philander aside, I don't think SA have bowled that well. it's interesting that there are already clear footmarks at Morkel's end. Could be interesting if it goes to the 4th innings.

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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:25 pm

shrewsbury saddler wrote:
boringteacher wrote:Cook has been excellent so far - and Westley has impressed thus far.

I hope my first post was wrong - but I was delighted to see Philander only get 4 overs. Probably the best new ball bowler in the world - pleasingly strange decision.

So far, so good. Jennings is a walking wicket anyway. Philander aside, I don't think SA have bowled that well. it's interesting that there are already clear footmarks at Morkel's end. Could be interesting if it goes to the 4th innings.

I'd agree about the SA bowling. Too short and going for the glory ball instead of letting the conditions do the work. Philander apparently has a fortunate dose of the trots - think we'd have been 3 wickets down otherwise at lunch. I'd have really fancied Anderson and Broad before lunch to punch a big hole in what isn't the strongest SA batting line.

Post-lunch will be key to the game I think - if the SA bowlers dont get their cack together soon, England could be in a good position come the close.

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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:51 pm

Philander currently has the impressive figures of 6 overs, 4 maidens, 2 wickets for 3 runs!!! :!:

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shrewsbury saddler
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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:57 pm

Welsh_Saddler wrote:Philander currently has the impressive figures of 6 overs, 4 maidens, 2 wickets for 3 runs!!! :!:

Before the last SA tour I said he'd do well in English conditions. Not ,said another poster as he did little at Edgbaston previously. In England , he currently has 22 wickets at 19. Can you think who that poster might have been?

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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:12 pm

Tough day, happy with that. It could easily have been a 200 all out day if SA had bowled well consistently.

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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:13 am

shrewsbury saddler wrote:
boringteacher wrote:Cook has been excellent so far - and Westley has impressed thus far.

I hope my first post was wrong - but I was delighted to see Philander only get 4 overs. Probably the best new ball bowler in the world - pleasingly strange decision.

So far, so good. Jennings is a walking wicket anyway. Philander aside, I don't think SA have bowled that well. it's interesting that there are already clear footmarks at Morkel's end. Could be interesting if it goes to the 4th innings.

Well, I got that bit about the 4th innings right, but didn't expect as interesting as that. First Test hat-trick at the Oval. The series is resembling the one v Pakistan last summer. The series is a lot closer than the actual matches are. Barring injury, I think England will stick to the same team for Friday.

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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:51 pm

Bit of fun for those watching the Test Series.

http://cricket.yorkshiretea.co.uk/teapot-test

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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:55 am

That wicket didn't matter to me. I've started counting the score as "for one" from the start of our innings for most of the series now...

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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:41 pm

fine series win - if only we could sort out our top 5! Keaton's gorra gew, Westley's got a shot at being competitive but not sure about Malan (though his personality looks well suited to piss off the convicts).

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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:55 am

With Stokes , Bairstow and Ali in this form they'd be a match for anyone. With them like this, they can probably afford a batting passenger at five, but for Australia they must find a reliable opener. The top three have to kill off the Kookaburra, as Strauss, Cook and Trott did in 2010/11.

El_Nombre
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Re: ENG v South Africa: Test series

Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:53 am

shrewsbury saddler wrote:With Stokes , Bairstow and Ali in this form they'd be a match for anyone. With them like this, they can probably afford a batting passenger at five, but for Australia they must find a reliable opener. The top three have to kill off the Kookaburra, as Strauss, Cook and Trott did in 2010/11.


Let's play fantasy selector. With a view to Aus who do you go with for the WIndies tests?

For me it's

Cook
Burns (After advocating Stoneman all summer I have changed my mind)
Root (He needs to bat 3, I don't care if he likes 4 he's our best batsmen and his team is a number 3 short)
Westley
Bairstow (Way too low at 7)
Roy (Purely for the entertainment value of that 5-8 line up. 100 for 25 balls and out)
Stokes
Ali
Roland-Jones
Broad
Anderson

That leaves Woakes and Wood to come in when fit. 5 frontline bowlers. 8 batsmen. Nice balance and a chance for Burns, Westley and Roy to stake a claim.

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