Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
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shrewsbury saddler - UTS Legend
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Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
It's great for the families. It's also another vindication, after the enquiries, of the belief that fans, WFC ,ones included,were criminally treated like cattle by the police for years. I can remember Rotherham 1984, when we were all pushed down a tiny alleyway after the game No one from the away end was allowed to go any other way.If you were there, you'll know anything could have happened post-match that night. It was just luck that it didn't. That was the work of the same police force responsible for Hillsborough. In the end, the inevitable happened. It's not just one incident. There was a whole culture of treating football supporters as sub-human.
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chunkster - Site Addict
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Re: Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
shrewsbury saddler wrote:It's great for the families. It's also another vindication, after the enquiries, of the belief that fans, WFC ,ones included,were criminally treated like cattle by the police for years. I can remember Rotherham 1984, when we were all pushed down a tiny alleyway after the game No one from the away end was allowed to go any other way.If you were there, you'll know anything could have happened post-match that night. It was just luck that it didn't. That was the work of the same police force responsible for Hillsborough. In the end, the inevitable happened. It's not just one incident. There was a whole culture of treating football supporters as sub-human.
Totaly agree with that. If you were at a football game in the 80's and you were a teen then you were fair game. I remember one particular officer with the port stain birth mark on his face, now he was one sadistic git
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Re: Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
Great news - Although I have to say, I feel a tad for the Sheffield Wednesday Club Sec.
The police officers that covered things up and basically blamed the dead? Sure. Screw those guys.
But the club secretary? He's basically been done for not adhering to health and safety laws, that were minimal and largely ignored up and down the country at that time and a tragedy occurred when it was pushed to it's very breaking point. It could have happened in any ground in the country and he could be any club sec.
The police officers that covered things up and basically blamed the dead? Sure. Screw those guys.
But the club secretary? He's basically been done for not adhering to health and safety laws, that were minimal and largely ignored up and down the country at that time and a tragedy occurred when it was pushed to it's very breaking point. It could have happened in any ground in the country and he could be any club sec.
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shrewsbury saddler - UTS Legend
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Re: Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
chunkster wrote:shrewsbury saddler wrote:It's great for the families. It's also another vindication, after the enquiries, of the belief that fans, WFC ,ones included,were criminally treated like cattle by the police for years. I can remember Rotherham 1984, when we were all pushed down a tiny alleyway after the game No one from the away end was allowed to go any other way.If you were there, you'll know anything could have happened post-match that night. It was just luck that it didn't. That was the work of the same police force responsible for Hillsborough. In the end, the inevitable happened. It's not just one incident. There was a whole culture of treating football supporters as sub-human.
Totaly agree with that. If you were at a football game in the 80's and you were a teen then you were fair game. I remember one particular officer with the port stain birth mark on his face, now he was one sadistic git
I seem to remember that charming little man. Didn't he stand in the little gate between the Cowshed and the Street End? He's probably a Chief Constable by now.
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chunkster - Site Addict
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Re: Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
shrewsbury saddler wrote:chunkster wrote:shrewsbury saddler wrote:It's great for the families. It's also another vindication, after the enquiries, of the belief that fans, WFC ,ones included,were criminally treated like cattle by the police for years. I can remember Rotherham 1984, when we were all pushed down a tiny alleyway after the game No one from the away end was allowed to go any other way.If you were there, you'll know anything could have happened post-match that night. It was just luck that it didn't. That was the work of the same police force responsible for Hillsborough. In the end, the inevitable happened. It's not just one incident. There was a whole culture of treating football supporters as sub-human.
Totaly agree with that. If you were at a football game in the 80's and you were a teen then you were fair game. I remember one particular officer with the port stain birth mark on his face, now he was one sadistic git
I seem to remember that charming little man. Didn't he stand in the little gate between the Cowshed and the Street End? He's probably a Chief Constable by now.
That's the one,
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shrewsbury saddler - UTS Legend
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Re: Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
El_Nombre wrote:Great news - Although I have to say, I feel a tad for the Sheffield Wednesday Club Sec.
The police officers that covered things up and basically blamed the dead? Sure. Screw those guys.
But the club secretary? He's basically been done for not adhering to health and safety laws, that were minimal and largely ignored up and down the country at that time and a tragedy occurred when it was pushed to it's very breaking point. It could have happened in any ground in the country and he could be any club sec.
SWFC had been repeatedly warned about their how dangerous their ground was, and did nothing. Sorry , can't share your sympathy.
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Re: Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
shrewsbury saddler wrote:El_Nombre wrote:Great news - Although I have to say, I feel a tad for the Sheffield Wednesday Club Sec.
The police officers that covered things up and basically blamed the dead? Sure. Screw those guys.
But the club secretary? He's basically been done for not adhering to health and safety laws, that were minimal and largely ignored up and down the country at that time and a tragedy occurred when it was pushed to it's very breaking point. It could have happened in any ground in the country and he could be any club sec.
SWFC had been repeatedly warned about their how dangerous their ground was, and did nothing. Sorry , can't share your sympathy.
Warned so severely that the FA kept awarding them semi final after semi final.
To say they did nothing is false too. They were warned after the Tottenham Wolves semi final and upgraded various things. None of which changed their safety certificate. The FA still granted them semi finals though...
Most grounds in the country were as far from safety regs as Hillsborough was at the time. I'm not saying "they did enough" or that they even "weren't to blame at all" but to lump it on a club sec who was doing nothing more than any other club was at the time is harsh. Particularly when it could have happened at most ground in the country.
It's far more on the police and the FA.
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shrewsbury saddler - UTS Legend
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Re: Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
El_Nombre wrote:shrewsbury saddler wrote:El_Nombre wrote:Great news - Although I have to say, I feel a tad for the Sheffield Wednesday Club Sec.
The police officers that covered things up and basically blamed the dead? Sure. Screw those guys.
But the club secretary? He's basically been done for not adhering to health and safety laws, that were minimal and largely ignored up and down the country at that time and a tragedy occurred when it was pushed to it's very breaking point. It could have happened in any ground in the country and he could be any club sec.
SWFC had been repeatedly warned about their how dangerous their ground was, and did nothing. Sorry , can't share your sympathy.
Warned so severely that the FA kept awarding them semi final after semi final.
To say they did nothing is false too. They were warned after the Tottenham Wolves semi final and upgraded various things. None of which changed their safety certificate. The FA still granted them semi finals though...
Most grounds in the country were as far from safety regs as Hillsborough was at the time. I'm not saying "they did enough" or that they even "weren't to blame at all" but to lump it on a club sec who was doing nothing more than any other club was at the time is harsh. Particularly when it could have happened at most ground in the country.
It's far more on the police and the FA.
But you could say the same about police forces throughout the country. They were all using the same attitude to football fans. You could equally ask why SY should be singed out.
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Re: Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
shrewsbury saddler wrote:El_Nombre wrote:shrewsbury saddler wrote:El_Nombre wrote:Great news - Although I have to say, I feel a tad for the Sheffield Wednesday Club Sec.
The police officers that covered things up and basically blamed the dead? Sure. Screw those guys.
But the club secretary? He's basically been done for not adhering to health and safety laws, that were minimal and largely ignored up and down the country at that time and a tragedy occurred when it was pushed to it's very breaking point. It could have happened in any ground in the country and he could be any club sec.
SWFC had been repeatedly warned about their how dangerous their ground was, and did nothing. Sorry , can't share your sympathy.
Warned so severely that the FA kept awarding them semi final after semi final.
To say they did nothing is false too. They were warned after the Tottenham Wolves semi final and upgraded various things. None of which changed their safety certificate. The FA still granted them semi finals though...
Most grounds in the country were as far from safety regs as Hillsborough was at the time. I'm not saying "they did enough" or that they even "weren't to blame at all" but to lump it on a club sec who was doing nothing more than any other club was at the time is harsh. Particularly when it could have happened at most ground in the country.
It's far more on the police and the FA.
But you could say the same about police forces throughout the country. They were all using the same attitude to football fans. You could equally ask why SY should be singed out.
Because, as I said, what they did was far more sinister and underhanded. We all learn from mistakes but when you start trying to cover them up and blame those you effected then you deserve everything you get.
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shrewsbury saddler - UTS Legend
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Re: Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
The CPS, very belatedly. seem to have decided that events prior, during and past the disaster are now worth pursuing. You seem to be saying that it's only events after the incident are worthy of prosecution.
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Re: Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
shrewsbury saddler wrote:The CPS, very belatedly. seem to have decided that events prior, during and past the disaster are now worth pursuing. You seem to be saying that it's only events after the incident are worthy of prosecution.
Not at all. Sympathy and prosecution are two very different things. You can have sympathy for many people that end up in jail.
I feel sorry for the guy who has been made a bit of a scapegoat, in my opinion, for shoddy Health and Safety practices, that anybody who went to a game at that period experienced at plenty of games, many played nowhere near Hillsborough. It's like allowing 50 people to speed and then pulling one out at random to prosecute. Yes he's breaking the law, but the people that make the law have turned a blind eye to it until it makes any difference. And what was there deterrent from the FA? "you can either shut your ground and lose a tonne of money and upgrade your H&S (which barely existed at the time anyway) or leave it open, exactly as it is, and you can have the second most lucrative fixture in our calendar anyway?".
If you ask me if they events after are MORE worthy of prosecution then yes, I would say they are. That isn't an unfortunate tragedy, that isn't people hens coming home to roost, that was underhanded obstruction of the truth by people that are supposed to uphold that very thing.
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shrewsbury saddler - UTS Legend
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Re: Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
I think we can find some common ground here. Saying, "Everyone else was doing the same thing" is not a defence under law, but, as you say, might lead to some sympathy about their prosecution, and some mitigation if convicted.
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NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD - UTS Legend
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Re: Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
How could they ever find a jury that hasn't already got a strong opinion's on this case. Any way I hope they recruit in Liverpool and these low lives do porridge.
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chunkster - Site Addict
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Re: Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
Agree. but with all the people being charged being of a certain age now, do you think the courts will have the bottle to send them to prison?NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD wrote:How could they ever find a jury that hasn't already got a strong opinion's on this case. Any way I hope they recruit in Liverpool and these low lives do porridge.
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NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD - UTS Legend
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Re: Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
chunkster wrote:Agree. but with all the people being charged being of a certain age now, do you think the courts will have the bottle to send them to prison?NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD wrote:How could they ever find a jury that hasn't already got a strong opinion's on this case. Any way I hope they recruit in Liverpool and these low lives do porridge.
They send ancient peado's so why not these lot.
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PT - Site Addict
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Re: Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
About time too. There should probably be more, especially in terms of the cover up after the event.
Once the families have finally seen their justice served, I hope that somebody in Parliament moves to make football fans equal to the rest of society in law.
Once the families have finally seen their justice served, I hope that somebody in Parliament moves to make football fans equal to the rest of society in law.
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aaaae - Site Addict
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Re: Hillsborough: Prosecutions at last
PT wrote:About time too. There should probably be more, especially in terms of the cover up after the event.
Once the families have finally seen their justice served, I hope that somebody in Parliament moves to make football fans equal to the rest of society in law.
I doubt that anybody in parliament has the slightest clue about standing on the terraces in the 80's. They were probably all playing polo and fives.
We're all just low life scum to them.
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