Cast your vote........

[Ancient Moaner]

the idea is simply to get them to pay more of the tax that they are due, just like any other company operating in Britain, so that this is available for us to use and not squirreled away for the CEO to buy a new fleet of yachts in Bahrain or Monaco. Not sure why you would think that's such a terrible idea.
It's fair for one thing and amounts to billions of pounds that the exchequer is missing out on.

Why portray Corbin as Robin Hood

The only thing he is robbing is our pension pots

And the people who benefit are the future Corbin abbot voters heading our way from overseas

Did you really just try to rationalise that? Did you really just say that your pension depends on depriving the UK of the tax income it deserves from corporate action within its economic environment? Did you?

Interesting point this. When we first moved to Dewsbury, it was a pleasant Leeds suburb with a brill little market, indeed, 'mystery' coach parties often ended up at the market.
When we gratefully moved out some 12 years later, the market consisted of stalls selling cheap paper products, cheap beds & saris.
When attempting to vote in any election, groups of VERY intimidating Muslim youths would jostle you outside the station, 'requesting' that you vote Labour!!
We had a 'dead' town centre, 6 mosques and 11 sari shops. Batley (the next town) High school had 17 white pupils.
Regrettably they 'take over'. Bolton Dobble area has endured a similar fate. Muslims don't integrate, they 'acquire' areas and take over.
A forward thinking Imam in Dewsbury came up with an interesting idea of inviting white folk from the town centre to visit homes of Muslim families...quite a good idea in theory, regrettable it had to be abandoned, they could not find enough white folk!
Trouble is of course, that mentally unstable idiots like the guy who killed the Labour MP in Birstall (Batley) try to mend matters themselves.
Hippy types like Saigon suggest that we communicate with Imams, to try to spread the peace loving portion of ideology from the Koran, regrettably once again, this is futile, Imams are usually elderly, and totally ignored by the younger generation who would much rather follow the massive portion of the Koran that spreads violence against 'non believers'.

[SaigonSaddler]

When we first moved to Dewsbury, it was a pleasant Leeds suburb with a brill little market, indeed, 'mystery' coach parties often ended up at the market.
When we gratefully moved out some 12 years later, the market consisted of stalls selling cheap paper products, cheap beds & saris.
When attempting to vote in any election, groups of VERY intimidating Muslim youths would jostle you outside the station, 'requesting' that you vote Labour!!
We had a 'dead' town centre, 6 mosques and 11 sari shops. Batley (the next town) High school had 17 white pupils.
Regrettably they 'take over'. Bolton Dobble area has endured a similar fate. Muslims don't integrate, they 'acquire' areas and take over.
A forward thinking Imam in Dewsbury came up with an interesting idea of inviting white folk from the town centre to visit homes of Muslim families...quite a good idea in theory, regrettable it had to be abandoned, they could not find enough white folk!
Trouble is of course, that mentally unstable idiots like the guy who killed the Labour MP in Birstall (Batley) try to mend matters themselves.
Hippy types like Saigon suggest that we communicate with Imams, to try to spread the peace loving portion of ideology from the Koran, regrettably once again, this is futile, Imams are usually elderly, and totally ignored by the younger generation who would much rather follow the massive portion of the Koran that spreads violence against 'non believers'.

What a dreadfully small mind you must inhabit.
Think I mentioned before that these sordid flights of fancy back into the worst corners of the 1930s exposes your prejudice and intolerance.

If you bothered to come from behind your twitching curtains you'd find most muslims are the same as anyone else.

[moaning saddler]

the idea is simply to get them to pay more of the tax that they are due, just like any other company operating in Britain, so that this is available for us to use and not squirreled away for the CEO to buy a new fleet of yachts in Bahrain or Monaco. Not sure why you would think that's such a terrible idea.
It's fair for one thing and amounts to billions of pounds that the exchequer is missing out on.

Why portray Corbin as Robin Hood

The only thing he is robbing is our pension pots

And the people who benefit are the future Corbin abbot voters heading our way from overseas

Did you really just try to rationalise that? Did you really just say that your pension depends on depriving the UK of the tax income it deserves from corporate action within its economic environment? Did you?

From the content of his various posts on the subject, I suspect that Cowshed's level of pension understanding is on a par with his understanding of how to spell Corbyn.

Chartered status

Level 6
Jo2
Jo3
Af3

Thanks foe the spell check mooning saddler

Really, then you should be ashamed of yourself for posting superficial rubbish.

[moaning saddler]

So, as I understand it, the non-tribal consensus is that mOssive companies can pay bog all because 'students' and 'the stock market'.

Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ... :D

Remain strong and stable.

No let's tax the hell out of the big nasty companies that we have our pensions invested in because I want to have peace of mind that David Beckham saves 180k on uni fees for his kids and I won't sleep if Alan sugar doesn't get his winter fuel allowance

For the few not the many

DIane Abbott Think tank policy 1

No, that the vast majority who want jobs requiring qualifications aren't saddled with crippling debt and the elderly have a significantly higher chance of having a warm home in winter. Quick question - where are doctors going to come from if they're not British? Duuuuurrrrrr ...

But David Beckham has kids and Alan Sugar is rich, so let's allow multi billion dollar companies to continue taking the piss. :oops:

no youre right lets not let these companies allow the economy to grow how dare they the big nasty things that try to create employment and pay shareholders like pension funds. it doesn't matter if they help relieve the state of the huge pension deficit just tax them and lets see who else we can tax while were at it because no one will notice we will just give them another bank holiday

Diane Abbott think tank policy 2

Recent history shows that things are a bit more complicated than your superficial and misleading twaddle :

1. 2010 - collective deficit of UK defined benefit pension funds : £0.
2. 2017 - collective deficit of UK defined benefit pension funds : £500 billion.
3. 2010 - corporation tax : 28%.
4. 2017 - corporation tax : 19%.
5. Total return on FTSE350 index 2010-2017 : +93%.

In other words, any positive impact of the profitability of UK companies, assisted by large reductions in corporation tax, has been totally overwhelmed by all of the other factors that impact pension fund valuations.

[moaning saddler]

.

Many of the so called large companies that Corbin wants to attack have pension funds as major investors so the increase in corporation tax reduces profits and so reduces the returns for pensions. It was a labour government that stopped pensions funds being able to reclaim the corporation tax already paid out.

So we have MConnell saying he intends to keep drawing his winter fuel allowance despite his earnings and we have the middle classes saving 45 grand on uni fees and everyone in the workplace pension will get less pension to pay for it.

The conservatives have had years to reverse that....

Osborne introduced a dividend tax in 2015 as well.

Yes, it is strange that something which Cowshed seems to equate with the collapse of civilisation as we know it has not been addressed at all since 2010, and there is nothing in the latest Tory manifesto addressing it either.
When it was introduced in 1997, the impact was estimated at £5 billion pa. On this basis, by 2010, it would therefore have cost a capital sum in the region of £65 billion.........which is around 4% of the current valuation of relevant pension scheme assets.
Not quite as earth-shattering as some people would have you believe.

[Cowshed]

Recent history shows that things are a bit more complicated than your superficial and misleading twaddle :

1. 2010 - collective deficit of UK defined benefit pension funds : £0.
2. 2017 - collective deficit of UK defined benefit pension funds : £500 billion.
3. 2010 - corporation tax : 28%.
4. 2017 - corporation tax : 19%.
5. Total return on FTSE350 index 2010-2017 : +93%.

In other words, any positive impact of the profitability of UK companies, assisted by large reductions in corporation tax, has been totally overwhelmed by all of the other factors that impact pension fund valuations.

Thanks mooning

Well to start with let's remind ourselves of my actual point before we wade through your interesting afternoons work

By taxing the larger companies we are not just affecting the so called fat cats there are other stakeholders
I.e pension funds
I.e ourselves

You agree with me on my main point because you have set out how pensions have been affected. Thank you mooning

Now how much are we affecting pensions

The use of your research has committed the unforgivable in relying on past performance tut tut mooning

Thank you for mentioning the ftse as you again reinforce the fact that share price can be impacted

Taxation as a macro can impact on equity price through market sentiment

I.e corporate strategy changes

I.e let's move to Dublin

Really mooning the markets don't like that sort of thing

So can you predict the future in terms of corporate strategy in reaction to tax legislation because if you can you need to let us all in on it

As mooning confirms folks we are all stakeholders with corporation tax

[moaning saddler]

Recent history shows that things are a bit more complicated than your superficial and misleading twaddle :

1. 2010 - collective deficit of UK defined benefit pension funds : £0.
2. 2017 - collective deficit of UK defined benefit pension funds : £500 billion.
3. 2010 - corporation tax : 28%.
4. 2017 - corporation tax : 19%.
5. Total return on FTSE350 index 2010-2017 : +93%.

In other words, any positive impact of the profitability of UK companies, assisted by large reductions in corporation tax, has been totally overwhelmed by all of the other factors that impact pension fund valuations.

Thanks mooning

Well to start with let's remind ourselves of my actual point before we wade through your interesting afternoons work

By taxing the larger companies we are not just affecting the so called fat cats there are other stakeholders
I.e pension funds
I.e ourselves

You agree with me on my main point because you have set out how pensions have been affected. Thank you mooning

Now how much are we affecting pensions

The use of your research has committed the unforgivable in relying on past performance tut tut mooning

Thank you for mentioning the ftse as you again reinforce the fact that share price can be impacted

Taxation as a macro can impact on equity price through market sentiment

I.e corporate strategy changes

I.e let's move to Dublin

Really mooning the markets don't like that sort of thing

So can you predict the future in terms of corporate strategy in reaction to tax legislation because if you can you need to let us all in on it

As mooning confirms folks we are all stakeholders with corporation tax

Blimey, that's a bit all over the place......but thanks for the "effort".
The very simple point I was making, which appears to have eluded you, is that company profitability, even after the incentive of large corporation tax reductions, does not necessarily have a positive correlation with the overall financial health of pension funds.
If you choose to ignore the stark evidence of recent history because it does not suit your purpose, then you are frankly a bit of a fool.
Anyway, thanks for confirming why I ditched financial "advisers" many years ago in favour of self-managing my own pensions and investments - best financial move I ever made.

[Ancient Moaner]

When we first moved to Dewsbury, it was a pleasant Leeds suburb with a brill little market, indeed, 'mystery' coach parties often ended up at the market.
When we gratefully moved out some 12 years later, the market consisted of stalls selling cheap paper products, cheap beds & saris.
When attempting to vote in any election, groups of VERY intimidating Muslim youths would jostle you outside the station, 'requesting' that you vote Labour!!
We had a 'dead' town centre, 6 mosques and 11 sari shops. Batley (the next town) High school had 17 white pupils.
Regrettably they 'take over'. Bolton Dobble area has endured a similar fate. Muslims don't integrate, they 'acquire' areas and take over.
A forward thinking Imam in Dewsbury came up with an interesting idea of inviting white folk from the town centre to visit homes of Muslim families...quite a good idea in theory, regrettable it had to be abandoned, they could not find enough white folk!
Trouble is of course, that mentally unstable idiots like the guy who killed the Labour MP in Birstall (Batley) try to mend matters themselves.
Hippy types like Saigon suggest that we communicate with Imams, to try to spread the peace loving portion of ideology from the Koran, regrettably once again, this is futile, Imams are usually elderly, and totally ignored by the younger generation who would much rather follow the massive portion of the Koran that spreads violence against 'non believers'.

What a dreadfully small mind you must inhabit.
Think I mentioned before that these sordid flights of fancy back into the worst corners of the 1930s exposes your prejudice and intolerance.

If you bothered to come from behind your twitching curtains you'd find most muslims are the same as anyone else.

So, the 'truth' is somehow an imaginary symptom invented by 'types' like myself, who are apparently intolerant of others.
Please tell us all how the truth, as explained above, is somehow 'imagination'?
Another true event you may want to deny..........A large group of senior pupils from the aforementioned school, set about an elderly gentleman in Batley quite near to the school, he had apparently asked them to refrain from using foul language (which I regret to admit has become all too common these days) he was hospitalised, my wife's boss, passing at the time intervened to avoid further punishment of the gentleman. After police non-action (I wonder why?) it was left to the headmaster of the school to inflict a punishment............no action at all, he stated it was down to 'youthful high spirits'.
now I am the first to admit that such matters happen throughout life, my problem is, that because they were 'Asian' (can I say that in todays PC world?) there was no further action taken by the police, so that race relations would not be 'upset'.
May I suggest Saigon that when you finish your world tour, if you come back to merry ole England, buy a property in Dewsbury (they are quite cheap now, we lost over £30K off our house value when we 'got out') You say "most Muslims are the same as anyone else"
You too could endure skin headed thugs using the Dewsbury ring road as a race track in the early hours, frightening intimidation at voting stations, town centre that resembles a Syrian town, intimidating driving, all the pubs now shut,
loads of sari shops, cheap beds, cheap plastic pine furniture, gangs of Asian youths roaming/looking for 'bother'.
A totally new outlook, no more churches but plenty of Mosques. You'd love it, I feel sure!

[SaigonSaddler]

When we first moved to Dewsbury, it was a pleasant Leeds suburb with a brill little market, indeed, 'mystery' coach parties often ended up at the market.
When we gratefully moved out some 12 years later, the market consisted of stalls selling cheap paper products, cheap beds & saris.
When attempting to vote in any election, groups of VERY intimidating Muslim youths would jostle you outside the station, 'requesting' that you vote Labour!!
We had a 'dead' town centre, 6 mosques and 11 sari shops. Batley (the next town) High school had 17 white pupils.
Regrettably they 'take over'. Bolton Dobble area has endured a similar fate. Muslims don't integrate, they 'acquire' areas and take over.
A forward thinking Imam in Dewsbury came up with an interesting idea of inviting white folk from the town centre to visit homes of Muslim families...quite a good idea in theory, regrettable it had to be abandoned, they could not find enough white folk!
Trouble is of course, that mentally unstable idiots like the guy who killed the Labour MP in Birstall (Batley) try to mend matters themselves.
Hippy types like Saigon suggest that we communicate with Imams, to try to spread the peace loving portion of ideology from the Koran, regrettably once again, this is futile, Imams are usually elderly, and totally ignored by the younger generation who would much rather follow the massive portion of the Koran that spreads violence against 'non believers'.

What a dreadfully small mind you must inhabit.
Think I mentioned before that these sordid flights of fancy back into the worst corners of the 1930s exposes your prejudice and intolerance.

If you bothered to come from behind your twitching curtains you'd find most muslims are the same as anyone else.

So, the 'truth' is somehow an imaginary symptom invented by 'types' like myself, who are apparently intolerant of others.
Please tell us all how the truth, as explained above, is somehow 'imagination'?
Another true event you may want to deny..........A large group of senior pupils from the aforementioned school, set about an elderly gentleman in Batley quite near to the school, he had apparently asked them to refrain from using foul language (which I regret to admit has become all too common these days) he was hospitalised, my wife's boss, passing at the time intervened to avoid further punishment of the gentleman. After police non-action (I wonder why?) it was left to the headmaster of the school to inflict a punishment............no action at all, he stated it was down to 'youthful high spirits'.
now I am the first to admit that such matters happen throughout life, my problem is, that because they were 'Asian' (can I say that in todays PC world?) there was no further action taken by the police, so that race relations would not be 'upset'.
May I suggest Saigon that when you finish your world tour, if you come back to merry ole England, buy a property in Dewsbury (they are quite cheap now, we lost over £30K off our house value when we 'got out') You say "most Muslims are the same as anyone else"
You too could endure skin headed thugs using the Dewsbury ring road as a race track in the early hours, frightening intimidation at voting stations, town centre that resembles a Syrian town, intimidating driving, all the pubs now shut,
loads of sari shops, cheap beds, cheap plastic pine furniture, gangs of Asian youths roaming/looking for 'bother'.
A totally new outlook, no more churches but plenty of Mosques. You'd love it, I feel sure!

Your 'truth' is simply a completely subjective moan about falling house prices and sari shops, smeared with a generous helping of untermensch intolerance and intellectual laziness. Read back some of your sweeping generalisations:

Regrettably they 'take over'.
Muslims don't integrate, they 'acquire' areas and take over.
they could not find enough white folk!
Hippy types suggest that we communicate with Imams
this is futile, Imams are usually elderly, and totally ignored by the younger generation who would much rather follow the massive portion of the Koran that spreads violence against 'non believers'

Straight out of the grubby toilet of 1930s dehumanisation.

How are you sure these alleged miscreants aren't Hindu or Sikh? Those sari shops are more likely to be either of those. How many Imams have you talked to in order to reach those conclusions? By 'take over' you mean live in a dwelling. How dare they!

Most people are the same as anyone else. I'm sorry that you've reached your stage in life without realising that.

[Cowshed]

Blimey, that's a bit all over the place......but thanks for the "effort".
The very simple point I was making, which appears to have eluded you, is that company profitability, even after the incentive of large corporation tax reductions, does not necessarily have a positive correlation with the overall financial health of pension funds.
If you choose to ignore the stark evidence of recent history because it does not suit your purpose, then you are frankly a bit of a fool.
Anyway, thanks for confirming why I ditched financial "advisers" many years ago in favour of self-managing my own pensions and investments - best financial move I ever made.[/quote]
Do you find that being on a high horse makes you an easy target

For some reason you rambled on about the underfunding of Db schemes- historically

Legislative changes can impact on assets such as equities and fixed income securities

Most dc schemes are invested in assets such as equities and fixed income securities

It really is as simple as that

This line of work really is money for old rope why people like you try to make it more complicated is dubious at the least


You were likely repositioned away from the coal face for 2 reasons that are immediately apparent to me

Firstly you have to have a personality

Secondly it really is important to make clients aware of any potential risks to their investments- legislation change is a clear risk

[moaning saddler]

Blimey, that's a bit all over the place......but thanks for the "effort".
The very simple point I was making, which appears to have eluded you, is that company profitability, even after the incentive of large corporation tax reductions, does not necessarily have a positive correlation with the overall financial health of pension funds.
If you choose to ignore the stark evidence of recent history because it does not suit your purpose, then you are frankly a bit of a fool.
Anyway, thanks for confirming why I ditched financial "advisers" many years ago in favour of self-managing my own pensions and investments - best financial move I ever made.

Do you find that being on a high horse makes you an easy target

For some reason you rambled on about the underfunding of Db schemes- historically

Legislative changes can impact on assets such as equities and fixed income securities

Most dc schemes are invested in assets such as equities and fixed income securities

It really is as simple as that

This line of work really is money for old rope why people like you try to make it more complicated is dubious at the least


You were likely repositioned away from the coal face for 2 reasons that are immediately apparent to me

Firstly you have to have a personality

Secondly it really is important to make clients aware of any potential risks to their investments- legislation change is a clear risk[/quote]

Oh dear - so using your "expertise" to give the best possible financial and pension advice to clients in a relationship in which you are supposed to put their interests first is "money for old rope". What a great advert you are for your profession.

[Cowshed]

Blimey, that's a bit all over the place......but thanks for the "effort".
The very simple point I was making, which appears to have eluded you, is that company profitability, even after the incentive of large corporation tax reductions, does not necessarily have a positive correlation with the overall financial health of pension funds.
If you choose to ignore the stark evidence of recent history because it does not suit your purpose, then you are frankly a bit of a fool.
Anyway, thanks for confirming why I ditched financial "advisers" many years ago in favour of self-managing my own pensions and investments - best financial move I ever made.

Do you find that being on a high horse makes you an easy target

For some reason you rambled on about the underfunding of Db schemes- historically

Legislative changes can impact on assets such as equities and fixed income securities

Most dc schemes are invested in assets such as equities and fixed income securities

It really is as simple as that

This line of work really is money for old rope why people like you try to make it more complicated is dubious at the least


You were likely repositioned away from the coal face for 2 reasons that are immediately apparent to me

Firstly you have to have a personality

Secondly it really is important to make clients aware of any potential risks to their investments- legislation change is a clear risk

Oh dear - so using your "expertise" to give the best possible financial and pension advice to clients in a relationship in which you are supposed to put their interests first is "money for old rope". What a great advert you are for your profession.[/quote]
Yes it's always best to be honest with clients and tell them it's money for old rope empower them to take control themselves it is easy really . It's a good approach which means I no longer have to advertise actually as I effectively retired at 30 .

[moaning saddler]

Oh dear - so using your "expertise" to give the best possible financial and pension advice to clients in a relationship in which you are supposed to put their interests first is "money for old rope". What a great advert you are for your profession.

Yes it's always best to be honest with clients and tell them it's money for old rope empower them to take control themselves it is easy really . It's a good approach which means I no longer have to advertise actually as I effectively retired at 30 .

Interesting! I trust that your professional indemnity insurance provider is aware of and supportive of your somewhat...er.....unique laissez-faire approach and hasn't hiked your annual premiums through the roof as a result.

[Exile]

Oh dear - so using your "expertise" to give the best possible financial and pension advice to clients in a relationship in which you are supposed to put their interests first is "money for old rope". What a great advert you are for your profession.

Yes it's always best to be honest with clients and tell them it's money for old rope empower them to take control themselves it is easy really . It's a good approach which means I no longer have to advertise actually as I effectively retired at 30 .

Interesting! I trust that your professional indemnity insurance provider is aware of and supportive of your somewhat...er.....unique laissez-faire approach and hasn't hiked your annual premiums through the roof as a result.

If he tells them to act for themselves, he can't lose them money through his own neglect, so no PI problem. It's their choice to either DIY or sign up to pay for their old rope, so to speak...

[derbysaddler]

I find it quite amusing that people are accusing Corbyn of being a threat and yet it wasn't him who hugely cut all of our public services, the NHS, and our armed forces, exposing us to be less protected from crime, terrorism, wars, illness etc. It was Theresa May and her Tory cronies.

They cut:
8500 RAF personnel
5500 Royal Navy personnel
10000 firefights
39 fire stations
10% of the border force
20000+ Armed forces personnel
20000+ Police officers
200 Royal Marines
6610 Mental health nurses
538 Specialist learning disability nurses
44% of "other" learning disability nurses
Thousands of nurses

Meanwhile pretty much all of the armed forces promises in the Tory manifesto, such as building 4 more dreadnoughts to replace Trident, the Astute, 8 type 26 frigates etc... were all ordered by the previous government and are not new investments, it's a little deceptive.

But of course, lets forget about the actual factual weakening of British services and armed forces by Tory governments, lets instead focus on what Tory press have spun Corbyn to have said 30 years ago. :roll:

the last labour chancellor ed balls thought it would be funny to leave a note when they lost office to say there was no money left

looking at your list Johnny it turned out to be really funny didn't it

Thatcher was busy cutting the armed forces to pieces when the Falklands war started, if it had started later we would have struggled to deploy a task force out there.

Try and use balance in your arguements, it may help you.

[Super Gabor]

the last labour chancellor ed balls thought it would be funny to leave a note when they lost office to say there was no money left

I don't wish to be overly pedantic but it was Liam Byrne who left that note. Ed Balls was never Chancellor, but he was a Treasury Minister for a while before becoming SOS for Schools, Children and Families. He was Shadow Chancellor when the wrong Miliband was Labour Leader.

That said, I get the sentiment of your point. Anyone close to or involved with govt. policy at that time was well aware of Brown shovelling money out the door like there was no tomorrow (over and above anything to do with the banking crisis). :wink:

[Cowshed]

Oh dear - so using your "expertise" to give the best possible financial and pension advice to clients in a relationship in which you are supposed to put their interests first is "money for old rope". What a great advert you are for your profession.

Yes it's always best to be honest with clients and tell them it's money for old rope empower them to take control themselves it is easy really . It's a good approach which means I no longer have to advertise actually as I effectively retired at 30 .

Interesting! I trust that your professional indemnity insurance provider is aware of and supportive of your somewhat...er.....unique laissez-faire approach and hasn't hiked your annual premiums through the roof as a result.

H L

[Cowshed]

I find it quite amusing that people are accusing Corbyn of being a threat and yet it wasn't him who hugely cut all of our public services, the NHS, and our armed forces, exposing us to be less protected from crime, terrorism, wars, illness etc. It was Theresa May and her Tory cronies.

They cut:
8500 RAF personnel
5500 Royal Navy personnel
10000 firefights
39 fire stations
10% of the border force
20000+ Armed forces personnel
20000+ Police officers
200 Royal Marines
6610 Mental health nurses
538 Specialist learning disability nurses
44% of "other" learning disability nurses
Thousands of nurses

Meanwhile pretty much all of the armed forces promises in the Tory manifesto, such as building 4 more dreadnoughts to replace Trident, the Astute, 8 type 26 frigates etc... were all ordered by the previous government and are not new investments, it's a little deceptive.

But of course, lets forget about the actual factual weakening of British services and armed forces by Tory governments, lets instead focus on what Tory press have spun Corbyn to have said 30 years ago. :roll:

the last labour chancellor ed balls thought it would be funny to leave a note when they lost office to say there was no money left

looking at your list Johnny it turned out to be really funny didn't it

Thatcher was busy cutting the armed forces to pieces when the Falklands war started, if it had started later we would have struggled to deploy a task force out there.

Try and use balance in your arguements, it may help you.

Help me do what?

[Ancient Moaner]

When we first moved to Dewsbury, it was a pleasant Leeds suburb with a brill little market, indeed, 'mystery' coach parties often ended up at the market.
When we gratefully moved out some 12 years later, the market consisted of stalls selling cheap paper products, cheap beds & saris.
When attempting to vote in any election, groups of VERY intimidating Muslim youths would jostle you outside the station, 'requesting' that you vote Labour!!
We had a 'dead' town centre, 6 mosques and 11 sari shops. Batley (the next town) High school had 17 white pupils.
Regrettably they 'take over'. Bolton Dobble area has endured a similar fate. Muslims don't integrate, they 'acquire' areas and take over.
A forward thinking Imam in Dewsbury came up with an interesting idea of inviting white folk from the town centre to visit homes of Muslim families...quite a good idea in theory, regrettable it had to be abandoned, they could not find enough white folk!
Trouble is of course, that mentally unstable idiots like the guy who killed the Labour MP in Birstall (Batley) try to mend matters themselves.
Hippy types like Saigon suggest that we communicate with Imams, to try to spread the peace loving portion of ideology from the Koran, regrettably once again, this is futile, Imams are usually elderly, and totally ignored by the younger generation who would much rather follow the massive portion of the Koran that spreads violence against 'non believers'.

What a dreadfully small mind you must inhabit.
Think I mentioned before that these sordid flights of fancy back into the worst corners of the 1930s exposes your prejudice and intolerance.

If you bothered to come from behind your twitching curtains you'd find most muslims are the same as anyone else.

So, the 'truth' is somehow an imaginary symptom invented by 'types' like myself, who are apparently intolerant of others.
Please tell us all how the truth, as explained above, is somehow 'imagination'?
Another true event you may want to deny..........A large group of senior pupils from the aforementioned school, set about an elderly gentleman in Batley quite near to the school, he had apparently asked them to refrain from using foul language (which I regret to admit has become all too common these days) he was hospitalised, my wife's boss, passing at the time intervened to avoid further punishment of the gentleman. After police non-action (I wonder why?) it was left to the headmaster of the school to inflict a punishment............no action at all, he stated it was down to 'youthful high spirits'.
now I am the first to admit that such matters happen throughout life, my problem is, that because they were 'Asian' (can I say that in todays PC world?) there was no further action taken by the police, so that race relations would not be 'upset'.
May I suggest Saigon that when you finish your world tour, if you come back to merry ole England, buy a property in Dewsbury (they are quite cheap now, we lost over £30K off our house value when we 'got out') You say "most Muslims are the same as anyone else"
You too could endure skin headed thugs using the Dewsbury ring road as a race track in the early hours, frightening intimidation at voting stations, town centre that resembles a Syrian town, intimidating driving, all the pubs now shut,
loads of sari shops, cheap beds, cheap plastic pine furniture, gangs of Asian youths roaming/looking for 'bother'.
A totally new outlook, no more churches but plenty of Mosques. You'd love it, I feel sure!

Your 'truth' is simply a completely subjective moan about falling house prices and sari shops, smeared with a generous helping of untermensch intolerance and intellectual laziness. Read back some of your sweeping generalisations:

Regrettably they 'take over'.
Muslims don't integrate, they 'acquire' areas and take over.
they could not find enough white folk!
Hippy types suggest that we communicate with Imams
this is futile, Imams are usually elderly, and totally ignored by the younger generation who would much rather follow the massive portion of the Koran that spreads violence against 'non believers'

Straight out of the grubby toilet of 1930s dehumanisation.

How are you sure these alleged miscreants aren't Hindu or Sikh? Those sari shops are more likely to be either of those. How many Imams have you talked to in order to reach those conclusions? By 'take over' you mean live in a dwelling. How dare they!

Most people are the same as anyone else. I'm sorry that you've reached your stage in life without realising that.

One day, your tolerant attitude will bite you in the bum, when you have lived as long as I have, sometimes you look around and think, Is this 'really' England? Enjoy your wonderful life, being so 'human' is commendable, but remember the warning. Off in my time machine now, back to the good old 1930's depression. :wink:

[SaigonSaddler]

One day, your tolerant attitude will bite you in the bum, when you have lived as long as I have, sometimes you look around and think, Is this 'really' England? Enjoy your wonderful life, being so 'human' is commendable, but remember the warning. Off in my time machine now, back to the good old 1930's depression. :wink:

Mate, I've lived in 4 different British cities, 4 different countries, visited 45 countries, many multiple times, but returned to the UK for many weeks every single year and lived here permanently for 36 years.

I think I've had time to develop my sense of social awareness, both good and bad. I think I've had ample opportunity for my tolerance to backfire. Guess what: people reflect back the humanity and positivity I give out.

So let me inform you of something. People ARE the same wherever you go. And the OVERWHELMING majority are productive, helpful, approachable and positive. This is as true of Cambodia as it is Canada, of Taiwan as it is of Turkey and Bolivia as it is of Britain.

You might be many years older, but if the all of them reduce down to you fearing foreigners and deliberately not engaging with them, of demonising people because they are of a different religion or a different culture, then you have not made full use of your time on earth.

[derbysaddler]

Help me do what?

look at the wider picture and the record of both labour and conservatives during their tenures in government. There have been major faults with both. Some of your statements regarding the police and military cuts don't consider the level of cuts the Tory governments have inflicted on both services.

[yoda]

One day, your tolerant attitude will bite you in the bum, when you have lived as long as I have, sometimes you look around and think, Is this 'really' England? Enjoy your wonderful life, being so 'human' is commendable, but remember the warning. Off in my time machine now, back to the good old 1930's depression. :wink:

Maybe, but it wont be because anyone was 'right'. Theres that popular theory that people start with left-minded views in their youth and drift to the right as they get older.

There's that scientifically proven pattern of thought that you nearly always see the past with fonder feelings than you experience at the time. As time marches on and society plays more fast and loose with what is 'normal' (remember when a womans ankle was taboo?) you start to long for the past and how things were in 'the good old days'.

My point is we are all changing as much as England is. To look around and think 'is this England?' as you challenge us to do is a pointless exercise. Whether you let it stand in the way of progress and compassion depends on a number of factors unique to you.

[chunkster]

One day, your tolerant attitude will bite you in the bum, when you have lived as long as I have, sometimes you look around and think, Is this 'really' England? Enjoy your wonderful life, being so 'human' is commendable, but remember the warning. Off in my time machine now, back to the good old 1930's depression. :wink:

Mate, I've lived in 4 different British cities, 4 different countries, visited 45 countries, many multiple times, but returned to the UK for many weeks every single year and lived here permanently for 36 years.

I think I've had time to develop my sense of social awareness, both good and bad. I think I've had ample opportunity for my tolerance to backfire. Guess what: people reflect back the humanity and positivity I give out.

So let me inform you of something. People ARE the same wherever you go. And the OVERWHELMING majority are productive, helpful, approachable and positive. This is as true of Cambodia as it is Canada, of Taiwan as it is of Turkey and Bolivia as it is of Britain.

You might be many years older, but if the all of them reduce down to you fearing foreigners and deliberately not engaging with them, of demonising people because they are of a different religion or a different culture, then you have not made full use of your time on earth.

Just leave him alone, he is happy being depressed :lol:

[Cowshed]

Help me do what?

look at the wider picture and the record of both labour and conservatives during their tenures in government. There have been major faults with both. Some of your statements regarding the police and military cuts don't consider the level of cuts the Tory governments have inflicted on both services.

cant argue with that



so hopefully Corbyn will stop banging on about tory cuts because as you say

'there have been major faults with both'

[canadiansaddler]

Politics of division make us weak not strong

Glad there are woolly lefty leaders around the globe, strikes me the UK more than ever needs a Trudeau style leader not a Trump or Thatcher.

Drewsbury problems are Britain's problems, communities are split no longer by class but by religion and ethnicity, Britain it seems from afar is for the most part a boiling pot rather than a melting pot, underneath it all like all things the real problems are Economic and that seems to have been lost. Lift people out of Poverty and build a strong middle class and society will look after itself. The UK leaders (and those elsewhere) are more intent on creating a system of distrust than actually dealing with the real issues.

[Cowshed]

Politics of division make us weak not strong

Glad there are woolly lefty leaders around the globe, strikes me the UK more than ever needs a Trudeau style leader not a Trump or Thatcher.

Drewsbury problems although heresay are Britain's problems, communities are split no longer by class but by religion and ethnicity, Britain it seems from afar is for the most part a boiling pot rather than a melting pot, underneath it all like all things the real problems are Economic and that seems to have been lost. Lift people out of Poverty and build a strong middle class and society will look after itself. The UK leaders (and those elsewhere) are more intent on creating a system of distrust than actually dealing with the real issues.

Britains problems or a continental /global problem spread to the U.K.

Similar tensions are apparent in other European countries who are notoriously socialist I.e France



Poverty can be eradicated by a stronger economy I agree. Eradicate poverty and we all become friends I'm not so sure. There appears to be so many other grudges I.e lifestyle and beliefs on gender equality etc

But with the current continental/global tensions should the number one priority not be the security of the country?

Establish control of the borders and provide security because even a strong economy is worthless without security

[Cowshed]

the idea is simply to get them to pay more of the tax that they are due, just like any other company operating in Britain, so that this is available for us to use and not squirreled away for the CEO to buy a new fleet of yachts in Bahrain or Monaco. Not sure why you would think that's such a terrible idea.
It's fair for one thing and amounts to billions of pounds that the exchequer is missing out on.

Why portray Corbin as Robin Hood

The only thing he is robbing is our pension pots

And the people who benefit are the future Corbin abbot voters heading our way from overseas

Did you really just try to rationalise that? Did you really just say that your pension depends on depriving the UK of the tax income it deserves from corporate action within its economic environment? Did you?

Corbyn is claiming that he is hitting the big companies to pay for social justice

Working class people have started pensions and after they have worked all week they and their families have gone without to put something aside for retirement. Corbyns taxes will affect these. Working class people not big companies see the ifs report posted by saddla on the other thread

Now if this affects you then you may accept that your retirement is not as safe as you thought but at least you are contributing to social justice. Except that that isn't the case because Corbyn is using your money to give to the middle classes and millionaires. He is handing them over 36000 of your money for each child going to uni , he is paying them pensions above inflation and giving a fuel allowance that they do not need.

Wolf in sheeps clothing

Gives the impression he is taking from the rich only this is Not the case

He is giving your money to the middle classes

The working classes are Corbyns money tree

[moaning saddler]

the idea is simply to get them to pay more of the tax that they are due, just like any other company operating in Britain, so that this is available for us to use and not squirreled away for the CEO to buy a new fleet of yachts in Bahrain or Monaco. Not sure why you would think that's such a terrible idea.
It's fair for one thing and amounts to billions of pounds that the exchequer is missing out on.

Why portray Corbin as Robin Hood

The only thing he is robbing is our pension pots

And the people who benefit are the future Corbin abbot voters heading our way from overseas

Did you really just try to rationalise that? Did you really just say that your pension depends on depriving the UK of the tax income it deserves from corporate action within its economic environment? Did you?

Corbyn is claiming that he is hitting the big companies to pay for social justice

Working class people have started pensions and after they have worked all week they and their families have gone without to put something aside for retirement. Corbyns taxes will affect these. Working class people not big companies see the ifs report posted by saddla on the other thread

Now if this affects you then you may accept that your retirement is not as safe as you thought but at least you are contributing to social justice. Except that that isn't the case because Corbyn is using your money to give to the middle classes and millionaires. He is handing them over 36000 of your money for each child going to uni , he is paying them pensions above inflation and giving a fuel allowance that they do not need.

Wolf in sheeps clothing

Gives the impression he is taking from the rich only this is Not the case

He is giving your money to the middle classes

The working classes are Corbyns money tree

....and then, as you have previously boasted, you come along and make enough "money for old rope" from these people who "have gone without" to fund your retirement at 30 - using them as your own money tree.
Priceless.

[SaigonSaddler]

Corbyn is claiming that he is hitting the big companies to pay for social justice

Working class people have started pensions and after they have worked all week they and their families have gone without to put something aside for retirement. Corbyns taxes will affect these. Working class people not big companies see the ifs report posted by saddla on the other thread

Now if this affects you then you may accept that your retirement is not as safe as you thought but at least you are contributing to social justice. Except that that isn't the case because Corbyn is using your money to give to the middle classes and millionaires. He is handing them over 36000 of your money for each child going to uni , he is paying them pensions above inflation and giving a fuel allowance that they do not need.

Wolf in sheeps clothing
Gives the impression he is taking from the rich only this is Not the case
He is giving your money to the middle classes
The working classes are Corbyns money tree

Nonsense.

You clearly haven't read the manifesto then as there are numerous ways in which he plans to assist the marginalised and the poor while also improving services for all.

[Cowshed]

the idea is simply to get them to pay more of the tax that they are due, just like any other company operating in Britain, so that this is available for us to use and not squirreled away for the CEO to buy a new fleet of yachts in Bahrain or Monaco. Not sure why you would think that's such a terrible idea.
It's fair for one thing and amounts to billions of pounds that the exchequer is missing out on.

Why portray Corbin as Robin Hood

The only thing he is robbing is our pension pots

And the people who benefit are the future Corbin abbot voters heading our way from overseas

Did you really just try to rationalise that? Did you really just say that your pension depends on depriving the UK of the tax income it deserves from corporate action within its economic environment? Did you?

Corbyn is claiming that he is hitting the big companies to pay for social justice

Working class people have started pensions and after they have worked all week they and their families have gone without to put something aside for retirement. Corbyns taxes will affect these. Working class people not big companies see the ifs report posted by saddla on the other thread

Now if this affects you then you may accept that your retirement is not as safe as you thought but at least you are contributing to social justice. Except that that isn't the case because Corbyn is using your money to give to the middle classes and millionaires. He is handing them over 36000 of your money for each child going to uni , he is paying them pensions above inflation and giving a fuel allowance that they do not need.

Wolf in sheeps clothing

Gives the impression he is taking from the rich only this is Not the case

He is giving your money to the middle classes

The working classes are Corbyns money tree

....and then, as you have previously boasted, you come along and make enough "money for old rope" from these people who "have gone without" to fund your retirement at 30 - using them as your own money tree.
Priceless.

So now I am up for election am I ?