Forest Green Rovers

[The Red Prince]

Anyone else getting fed up of bankrolled tin pot outfits making it into the football league, replacing a host of true football clubs with rich histories? For me, seeing teams like Stockport, or Halifax, or Tranmere, or Wrexham languish in non-league, whilst the likes of Fleetwood, Burton, Crawley etc all flourish galls me a bit. Get the feeling AFC Fylde will be the next one through.

Forest Green probably take the piss the most though, Nailsworth has a population of about 3500, and they've made a loss of around £10 million! Paying agents £200k this season along the way - bet they make it to he Championship by 2025.

[EvenFlow]

Unless I've missed something, I don't think Burton were artificially inflated the way Rushden, Crawley, Stevenage, Fleetwood, Forest Green and their ilk have been- I'm sure their rise has come about... erm... properly, for want of a better word.

Maybe it's an age thing, but I just can't get up for your Crawley and Fleetwood games- they feel intangibly empty and soulless. By contrast, I was delighted to see Bristol Rovers back from the wilderness and back on our fixture list- we've had some proper belters with them over the years- so completely get where you're coming from.

Just imagine if Salford City rattle off a couple of promotions in the coming years- the media love-in will be unbearable.

[SaigonSaddler]

There also seems to be a North / South divide, with the National league North populated by more ex-league clubs, and the Southern filled with new clubs seemingly on the up. Naturally there are exceptions ...

6 ex league club in the NL North, none in the South. Make that 8 and zero, as York City and Southport have gone down into the regional level.

And in the National league itself (excluding Lincoln City who have gone up) 6 ex league teams from the North v 4 from the South.

[yoda]

I find it difficult to get past the semantics of the whole discussion to be honest.

What is a 'true club' and who decides it? How can a club with 'no history' ever get some history unless it comes at the expense of those clubs that have been deemed worthy of being in the league?

To me, the playoffs are a lottery and Forest Green won.

[EvenFlow]

I find it difficult to get past the semantics of the whole discussion to be honest.

What is a 'true club' and who decides it? How can a club with 'no history' ever get some history unless it comes at the expense of those clubs that have been deemed worthy of being in the league?

To me, the playoffs are a lottery and Forest Green won.

Perhaps an alternate perspective, drawing the same conclusion, would be that artificially inflated clubs are getting in a position to snare league spots at the expense of your Suttons, Gatesheads, and Wokings (as opposed to replacing your Wrexhams and Tranmeres). It's not really that much different to the scenario whereby you retrospectively take one particular element (or man) out of the equation, and ask the question: would Chelsea really be bigger than Everton today?

I think everyone's individual perception of football hierarchy, again, is rooted in age. However the land lay in your first decade or so following the game will always feel like the way it "should be". Two examples- a young (21-ish) Stoke supporter I know is baffled that I don't see them as any bigger (in fact, not as big) as Ipswich, and that I assert Forest and Wednesday to be big clubs. He's too young to have ever seen them as such. Conversely, 15 months ago, some of our younger crew were very much buoyed by the visit of Wigan, seeing them as a proverbial big fish. Having first frequented Bescot in the early to mid 90s, I was raised on two league games a year against Wigan, so saw it as a bit of normality restored. Its all about what you're conditioned to, in essence- I suppose the debate lies in whether or not people feel there's anything wrong with that.

[Welsh_Saddler]

I find it difficult to get past the semantics of the whole discussion to be honest.

What is a 'true club' and who decides it? How can a club with 'no history' ever get some history unless it comes at the expense of those clubs that have been deemed worthy of being in the league?

To me, the playoffs are a lottery and Forest Green won.

Perhaps an alternate perspective, drawing the same conclusion, would be that artificially inflated clubs are getting in a position to snare league spots at the expense of your Suttons, Gatesheads, and Wokings (as opposed to replacing your Wrexhams and Tranmeres). It's not really that much different to the scenario whereby you retrospectively take one particular element (or man) out of the equation, and ask the question: would Chelsea really be bigger than Everton today?

I think everyone's individual perception of football hierarchy, again, is rooted in age. However the land lay in your first decade or so following the game will always feel like the way it "should be". Two examples- a young (21-ish) Stoke supporter I know is baffled that I don't see them as any bigger (in fact, not as big) as Ipswich, and that I assert Forest and Wednesday to be big clubs. He's too young to have ever seen them as such. Conversely, 15 months ago, some of our younger crew were very much buoyed by the visit of Wigan, seeing them as a proverbial big fish. Having first frequented Bescot in the early to mid 90s, I was raised on two league games a year against Wigan, so saw it as a bit of normality restored. Its all about what you're conditioned to, in essence- I suppose the debate lies in whether or not people feel there's anything wrong with that.

I sympathise with your Wigan Athletic reference - for the first umpteen years of my Saddlers' devotions Wigan occupied a steady place in the North West Counties League, and any thoughts of ambitions to even think of being a Football League club would have been laughed at; Wigan was a Rugby league town and was destined to ever be so. Such is the potential for a dramatic change when a bankrolling sugar daddy hoves into view!

[yoda]

Indeed, that's an interesting way to reframe the problem.

I'm very much of the mindset that it happens. Some clubs are rich, some are not. Although this view is probably skewed by the fact I'm not old enough to remember a time when football was a level playing field and I can see why some would oppose the 'artificially inflated' clubs.

[hullsaddler]

I am really pleased that Forest Green Rovers have been promoted. I really like their chairman even though I am not a vegan!
When I met Mrs hull saddler in 1973 her home was near Nailsworth and we got married that summer in Stroud. I have a lot of fond memories of the area. If I can I will try and get to a home game to cheer them on.
This does no mean that I don't feel sad about the decline of the likes of York City ...

[The Red Prince]

We've been slogging away in the Football League now, continually, for nearly 100 years, and we spent some time in there before that too. We've had some good times, and some cack times, but either way we've done it on generally mediocre amounts of cash.

So when some millionaire decides to take some Sunday League team from the North West Counties 7th division East, to the upper echelons, do excuse me for being a little irate.

Would anyone be happy, if we were to drop into the Conference, if we were denied promotion by a team who'd only been in existence for 20 years, from a village of 12, with a multi-millionaire owner?

[yoda]

The cash injections are just the nature of the beast these days, just need to be accepted alongside lumpy bovrill.

I don't think its all bad though as sometimes the status quo needs upheaving. Remember how boring the title race used to be when it was a 2 horse race between Arsenal and Man United every year?

[PT]

Like others, I think the concept of "tinpot" would be very much in the eye of the beholder.

No doubt when we were in what is now the Championship supporters of bigger clubs in that league would have seen us as tinpot. The few hundred we took to some away games would have confirmed that view at clubs who take thousands everywhere.

The deeper issue is the way some clubs are financed. What on the surface looks like a lovely romantic story of a little guy battling their way to higher echelons that may have seemed unimaginable (Bournemouth would be another example), often hides the fact that they have been financed by somebody either as a bit of a hobby or out of a naked financial gamble. This then leads to an artificial status that is completely dependent upon the whims of one individual rather than a sustainable model whereby if she or he loses interest the whole future of the club is put in jeopardy and their artficial rise has been at the cost of clubs who are dependent upon the outcome of the sporting endeavour to dictate their financial clout and status.

We're a decent case-in point. Terry Ramsden financed some fairly flamboyant signings that got us up at the second attempt. He got into trouble and after a century our club nearly died. The ongoing scars of our sugar-daddy dalliance are a shady move to a ground built on the cheap (despite the cost!!) with all those stanchions and a ground we don't own. Other clubs would view those scars as minor.

I think what I'm saying is that it is great for the game when small clubs do well and punch above their weight, but when that is done on the back of artificial financial injection it's bad.

[canadiansaddler]

A conversation from dinner the other night when I loudly stated to exile that we needed to roll the clock back to 1971. Bring back Barrow, Southport, Workington.

Bugga automatic promotion bring back reelection the likes of Forest Green are even more sickening than the likes of Chelsea. In the scheme of things a bit of cash in the non league world guarantees success. Financial fair play rules need to be toughened up and the penalties need to be real not just fines. Relegation a price to pay if you cheat financially. An athlete cheats on performance enhancing drugs and we go through them out, a small club gets promoted on financial performance enhancement and we go "oh jolly good show".

[Mazza01]

There is a long list of clubs currently climbing the non - league pyramid all in the same mould as Forest Green. I work with a director of Worcester City and interestingly he was telling me despite all their financial backing Salford were not amongst the top payers in their league!

History and Fan base stands for very these days, fast forward another decade and clubs will be judged by their investors rather than support..

[PT]

There is a long list of clubs currently climbing the non - league pyramid all in the same mould as Forest Green. I work with a director of Worcester City and interestingly he was telling me despite all their financial backing Salford were not amongst the top payers in their league!

History and Fan base stands for very these days, fast forward another decade and clubs will be judged by their investors rather than support..

You're right Mazza and the recent Checkatrade decision is testament to that.

We can no longer believe that professional football is the "people's game" representing communities. The people and those represented communities gave a resounding thumbs down to the new format and yet for an extra million quid (absolute peanuts given the aggregated cash in the game) two thirds of the clubs were prepared to effectively sell any notion that it still might be " the people's game".

Playing "first team" games in front of a couple of hundred people. No problem - if the price is right.

Shame.

[derbysaddler]

Perhaps its a symptom of what has been happening in the top two divisions. With the money to be made in the premiership we now see the majority of club ownership is in foreign hands. Likewise we now see championship club after club also been brought out by foreign owners to try and grab a slot in the sky/BT cash pot league.

Other investors now see the opportunity to buy non league clubs and finance their route to the football league where their are higher chances of landing lucrative cup draws.

[The Red Prince]

Like others, I think the concept of "tinpot" would be very much in the eye of the beholder.

No doubt when we were in what is now the Championship supporters of bigger clubs in that league would have seen us as tinpot. The few hundred we took to some away games would have confirmed that view at clubs who take thousands everywhere.

The deeper issue is the way some clubs are financed. What on the surface looks like a lovely romantic story of a little guy battling their way to higher echelons that may have seemed unimaginable (Bournemouth would be another example), often hides the fact that they have been financed by somebody either as a bit of a hobby or out of a naked financial gamble. This then leads to an artificial status that is completely dependent upon the whims of one individual rather than a sustainable model whereby if she or he loses interest the whole future of the club is put in jeopardy and their artficial rise has been at the cost of clubs who are dependent upon the outcome of the sporting endeavour to dictate their financial clout and status.

We're a decent case-in point. Terry Ramsden financed some fairly flamboyant signings that got us up at the second attempt. He got into trouble and after a century our club nearly died. The ongoing scars of our sugar-daddy dalliance are a shady move to a ground built on the cheap (despite the cost!!) with all those stanchions and a ground we don't own. Other clubs would view those scars as minor.

I think what I'm saying is that it is great for the game when small clubs do well and punch above their weight, but when that is done on the back of artificial financial injection it's bad.

That's kind of the point I'm trying to make, if it's done on the back of hard work and endeavour, then fair play.

However if it's due to loads of money being thrown at them, then it isn't, and it's even more sickening when they become media darlings.

Rushden and Diamonds, and Gretna are prime examples of what you are saying about the whims of an individual there.

[aaaae]

I'm trying to do the 92 and any club I haven't been to shouldn't be allowed into the league. :mrgreen:

I lost two from my score when Orient and Hartlepool were relegated, but would have stayed in balance if Lincoln and Tranmere had been promoted. Forest Green pah! Please let us draw them in the cup.....

[Cheesebag]

The Morrissey of football clubs