Brexit Breakfast

[Manchester Saddler]

Actually, Cowshed, you do make a valid point. One of the problems is that, as a Remainer, I HAVE actually put forward the reasons why Brexit is bad for the country - but all I get is abuse and insults and told in no uncertain terms to "shut the f**k up and get over it".

So I've tried the alternative viewpoint - i.e. to actually find out why Brexiteers voted the way they did - with a view to pointing out the flaws in their arguments (in the nicest possible way of course :D ).

Just to answer your points (now I am not under the influence of alcohol):

Point (8) - Yes we will still be able to go to Europe for holidays BUT it will cost much more, the queues will be longer to get in and out of the country and, if you feel like you love the place so much that you might want to retire there or say open a restaurant or some other business - it will be much more difficult and you will probably give up because the red tape will drown you. A dream shattered, Cowshed! That doesn't apply to Spain alone - imagine if you want to move to Holland, France, Italy, Germany or any of the other 27 countries. We have freedom there at the moment and after Brexit that door will be slammed shut.

Point (9) - Its true! You may gather from talking about trips to China etc. that I travel a fair amount with work and deal with foreigners on a fairly regular basis. Almost all of them ask "Why is the UK leaving the EU?" with a look of total incredulity. It doesn't make sense to them. I am merely pointing that out. I'm sire that Saigon can confirm this as he is also quite the seasoned traveller.

Anyway - I'm going to Spain this year for a holiday so I will report on the nationality of tourists. I've actually never been to Benidorm either but I didn't see many Chinese in other parts of Spain when I was there last year.

I hope that yu can sleep tonight, Cowshed - you should do because we are still in the EU.

After Brexit it will become increasingly difficult, though as the shitstorm starts to hit.

:D :wink:

[PINNACLE]

Actually, Cowshed, you do make a valid point. One of the problems is that, as a Remainer, I HAVE actually put forward the reasons why Brexit is bad for the country - but all I get is abuse and insults and told in no uncertain terms to "shut the f**k up and get over it".

So I've tried the alternative viewpoint - i.e. to actually find out why Brexiteers voted the way they did - with a view to pointing out the flaws in their arguments (in the nicest possible way of course :D ).

Just to answer your points (now I am not under the influence of alcohol):

Point (8) - Yes we will still be able to go to Europe for holidays BUT it will cost much more, the queues will be longer to get in and out of the country and, if you feel like you love the place so much that you might want to retire there or say open a restaurant or some other business - it will be much more difficult and you will probably give up because the red tape will drown you. A dream shattered, Cowshed! That doesn't apply to Spain alone - imagine if you want to move to Holland, France, Italy, Germany or any of the other 27 countries. We have freedom there at the moment and after Brexit that door will be slammed shut.

Point (9) - Its true! You may gather from talking about trips to China etc. that I travel a fair amount with work and deal with foreigners on a fairly regular basis. Almost all of them ask "Why is the UK leaving the EU?" with a look of total incredulity. It doesn't make sense to them. I am merely pointing that out. I'm sire that Saigon can confirm this as he is also quite the seasoned traveller.

Anyway - I'm going to Spain this year for a holiday so I will report on the nationality of tourists. I've actually never been to Benidorm either but I didn't see many Chinese in other parts of Spain when I was there last year.

I hope that yu can sleep tonight, Cowshed - you should do because we are still in the EU.

After Brexit it will become increasingly difficult, though as the shitstorm starts to hit.

:D :wink:

As a brexiteer and one of the 51% i feel that i do not owe you or anyone an explanation or a reason why i voted as i did. Why should i ? we won in a one off question.............get over it !

[chunkster]

Just a question on point 8 manchester? i think that you are wrong about it being harder to get to Europe, all you have to do is camp out in dover for a few nights then jump on the back of a lorry heading for said Germany/ France etc because it works perfectly coming the other way :lol: :mrgreen:

[PINNACLE]

Gunna say what we’re all thinking. Feel free to ban me

Pinnacle’s a Scunthorpe.

UTS

Gunna say what i am thinking, feel free to ban me !
The UTS resident coat tugger and apologist that is Scott Powell calls me a **** !
I have never rubbished you as much as the other posters on here have but you continue to hang onto the coat tails of certain posters in order to gain favour. Sad really :oops:

[Cowshed]

Actually, Cowshed, you do make a valid point. One of the problems is that, as a Remainer, I HAVE actually put forward the reasons why Brexit is bad for the country - but all I get is abuse and insults and told in no uncertain terms to "shut the f**k up and get over it".

So I've tried the alternative viewpoint - i.e. to actually find out why Brexiteers voted the way they did - with a view to pointing out the flaws in their arguments (in the nicest possible way of course :D ).

Just to answer your points (now I am not under the influence of alcohol):

Point (8) - Yes we will still be able to go to Europe for holidays BUT it will cost much more, the queues will be longer to get in and out of the country and, if you feel like you love the place so much that you might want to retire there or say open a restaurant or some other business - it will be much more difficult and you will probably give up because the red tape will drown you. A dream shattered, Cowshed! That doesn't apply to Spain alone - imagine if you want to move to Holland, France, Italy, Germany or any of the other 27 countries. We have freedom there at the moment and after Brexit that door will be slammed shut.

Point (9) - Its true! You may gather from talking about trips to China etc. that I travel a fair amount with work and deal with foreigners on a fairly regular basis. Almost all of them ask "Why is the UK leaving the EU?" with a look of total incredulity. It doesn't make sense to them. I am merely pointing that out. I'm sire that Saigon can confirm this as he is also quite the seasoned traveller.

Anyway - I'm going to Spain this year for a holiday so I will report on the nationality of tourists. I've actually never been to Benidorm either but I didn't see many Chinese in other parts of Spain when I was there last year.

I hope that yu can sleep tonight, Cowshed - you should do because we are still in the EU.

After Brexit it will become increasingly difficult, though as the shitstorm starts to hit.

:D :wink:

Point 8

Movement will continue just as it did before the eu existed or did no one move to these countries before the eu?
Anyone who wants to move will have the same inconvenience as moving anywhere else in the world if you really want it you'll do it
You probably need to tell the various tourist boards for these countries of the pending doors being slammed shut as I don't think they are aware
What are the numbers of people involved in moving to these countries as a percentage of the uk ? You make it sound like 1 in 2
Queues to go through borders and security are a good thing because it shows proper checks are being made
I'd rather pay extra for a pint on holiday if we have a fantastic export opportunity for our manufacturing .

Point 9

Seriously , seriously how many if the 17 million do you think are bothered about what the rest of the world thinks
:D :wink:

[canadiansaddler]

Brexit reasons 1 through 101

[Exile]

Very clever, Canadian.

[Cowshed]

Very clever, Canadian.

Nostalgia and a sense of identity is a very powerful and addictive drug,Canadian

It's what draws exile and yourself back to this site

[SaigonSaddler]

Manchester your whole approach to this thread is not logical

The decision went the way of the leavers, the majority. Therefore the burden of pursuasion falls upon you, the MINORITY
It is up to the remainers to convince the leavers to change their mind not , as you weirdly suggest , the other way round. Bless you.

I have to say the pitiful attempt to change our minds as stated above did make me laugh though

If the EU is going to be so prosperous then hedge and invest in it what you lose here you will make there - bet you don't.

I particularly like number 8 being European holidays, if I recall correctly Spain was not worried about the prospect of a lack of British tourists who in your words will no longer travel due to the costs. Saigon agreed with you and said the beaches of Benidorm, Ibiza and Marbs will now be packed solid with Chinese. I note that Spain have asked for urgent talks to negotiate trade deals with us which is as we expected given they are on their knees.

Bit concerned about number 9 and to be honest I will struggle to sleep tonight worrying what the good folk of Papua New Guinea think of us

Errr, no.

It was you who erronously stated that the beaches of Benidorm would be thronged with Chinese tourists. I corrected you in saying that Chinese tourists tend to visit and spend heavily in cities and cultural sites. Benidorm would suffer for a while if British tourists suddenly stopped going, until they quickly altered their market, perhaps by taking the astonishing step to simply appeal to other markets. And places like Benidorm aren't the be all and end all of Spanish tourism. Certain places in Portugal and Spain are currently moaning about having too many tourists, so I'd reign in your view of the British tourist as some relic of a glorious imperial past, dodgy looking foreign types bowing and scraping for the chance to acquire some real pound notes.
Tourist locations don't care where their money comes from.

Weren't PNG one of the targets for the golden trade deal? I'd start to be more concerned with what the rest of the world thinks, especially if the plan is to approach them in a clown suit with a begging bowl.

In terms of burden of proof, both sides need to present a case in a discussion. Just because arguments for Brexit are shockingly absent or transparently weak, doesn't devalue the strength of the remain position in pointing them out.

I also don't think anyone is trying to change your mind. You're clearly determined to venture along a road riddled with logical fallacies and irrational conclusions at the moment. Pointing out that you've been consistently proved incorrect in your assumptions before and during this process isn't a failure in trying to turn you, it's simply pointing out the reality. It's entirely up to you if you choose to realise this or continue pretending that there is any kind of Brexit plan and swallowing whatever idealised fantasies bob up into your field of vision.

[Manchester Saddler]

As a brexiteer and one of the 51% i feel that i do not owe you or anyone an explanation or a reason why i voted as i did. Why should i ? we won in a one off question.............get over it !

And this, Cowshed, is exactly what I mean. Thanks Pinnacle for confirming what I said. :mrgreen:

You can ask in as civil a way as you can and simply get told to "get over it".

In this particular case, it's not difficult to guess why Pinnacle voted Brexit (given his track record). I'm sure he doesn't really want UTS to know his real views (although he has let them slip on several occasions). Or maybe he doesn't know why he voted Brexit and is too afraid to expose this truth. He could prove me wrong quite easily (and I would welcome that) - but for reasons known only to him, I don't think he likes me very much! :D

I am absolutely certain that a lot of Brexiteers aren't like Pinnacle and have genuine reasons for voting the way they did. It's those people that I am trying to engage with, i.e. people who don't throw their toys out of the pram when somebody disagrees with them. Sadly, nobody is forthcoming!

:D

[scott_powell]

Gunna say what we’re all thinking. Feel free to ban me

Pinnacle’s a Scunthorpe.

UTS

Gunna say what i am thinking, feel free to ban me !
The UTS resident coat tugger and apologist that is Scott Powell calls me a **** !
I have never rubbished you as much as the other posters on here have but you continue to hang onto the coat tails of certain posters in order to gain favour. Sad really :oops:

"rubbushed you as much" :lol:

So you've still gave me shite in the past, just not as much :lol: Idiot.

[Manchester Saddler]

Gunna say what we’re all thinking. Feel free to ban me

Pinnacle’s a Scunthorpe.

UTS

Gunna say what i am thinking, feel free to ban me !
The UTS resident coat tugger and apologist that is Scott Powell calls me a **** !
I have never rubbished you as much as the other posters on here have but you continue to hang onto the coat tails of certain posters in order to gain favour. Sad really :oops:

"rubbushed you as much" :lol:

So you've still gave me shite in the past, just not as much :lol: Idiot.

Clearly it's not just me then. :?

Ever thought about Anger Management classes, Pinnacle?

[chunkster]

Gunna say what we’re all thinking. Feel free to ban me

Pinnacle’s a Scunthorpe.

UTS

Gunna say what i am thinking, feel free to ban me !
The UTS resident coat tugger and apologist that is Scott Powell calls me a **** !
I have never rubbished you as much as the other posters on here have but you continue to hang onto the coat tails of certain posters in order to gain favour. Sad really :oops:

"rubbushed you as much" :lol:

So you've still gave me shite in the past, just not as much :lol: Idiot.

Clearly it's not just me then. :?

Ever thought about Anger Management classes, Pinnacle?

He did. but he punched the counselor :mrgreen:

[PINNACLE]

Gunna say what we’re all thinking. Feel free to ban me

Pinnacle’s a Scunthorpe.

UTS

Gunna say what i am thinking, feel free to ban me !
The UTS resident coat tugger and apologist that is Scott Powell calls me a **** !
I have never rubbished you as much as the other posters on here have but you continue to hang onto the coat tails of certain posters in order to gain favour. Sad really :oops:

"rubbushed you as much" :lol:

So you've still gave me shite in the past, just not as much :lol: Idiot.

Clearly it's not just me then. :?

Ever thought about Anger Management classes, Pinnacle?

We could go together if you like ? Maybe they can do something for your Superiority complex and calm you down :wink:

[PINNACLE]

Gunna say what we’re all thinking. Feel free to ban me

Pinnacle’s a Scunthorpe.

UTS

Gunna say what i am thinking, feel free to ban me !
The UTS resident coat tugger and apologist that is Scott Powell calls me a **** !
I have never rubbished you as much as the other posters on here have but you continue to hang onto the coat tails of certain posters in order to gain favour. Sad really :oops:

"rubbushed you as much" :lol:

So you've still gave me shite in the past, just not as much :lol: Idiot.

Its "rubbished", do keep up :lol:

[Manchester Saddler]

:D

I'm quite a stress free and happy chap, Pinnacle, believe it or not with no superiority complex. I just quite like a good debate.

I would come with you just to make sure that your therapy is working if you like. If we are able to ever discuss Brexit in civil way (or anything else for that matter) then I think that would be a start.

Hang on - an idea! Let's talk about Walsall FC. I'm sure we can agree on that.

:D :wink:

[Exile]

Hang on - an idea! Let's talk about Walsall FC. I'm sure we can agree on that.

:D :wink:

I doubt it! If you put ten Walsall fans in a room you'll get eleven opinions on how the club is doing/going/playing. At least with Brexit it boils down to two opinions - 'You don't know what you're doing' vs 'You lost. Suck it up'. :mrgreen:

[chunkster]

Hang on - an idea! Let's talk about Walsall FC. I'm sure we can agree on that.

:D :wink:

I doubt it! If you put ten Walsall fans in a room you'll get eleven opinions on how the club is doing/going/playing. At least with Brexit it boils down to two opinions - 'You don't know what you're doing' vs 'You lost. Suck it up'. :mrgreen:

:lol:

[Manchester Saddler]

Hang on - an idea! Let's talk about Walsall FC. I'm sure we can agree on that.

:D :wink:

I doubt it! If you put ten Walsall fans in a room you'll get eleven opinions on how the club is doing/going/playing. At least with Brexit it boils down to two opinions - 'You don't know what you're doing' vs 'You lost. Suck it up'. :mrgreen:

I can't disagree with that Mr Sheep.

:D

[El_Nombre]

It's not just money that could be lost after Brexit:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... man-rights

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/ja ... an-charter

[Wragbyred]

Losing money???
Explain how

[El_Nombre]

Losing money???
Explain how

This whole thread is one giant explanation/argument of how that "COULD" happen. Kind of wanted to steer away from that debate hence the entire point of my post.

[Exile]

Losing money???
Explain how

Well, the GBP/EUR exchange rate for a start. Cost a packet, and GB hasn't even left yet. The worst is yet to come.

[saddla]

Losing money???
Explain how

Ask your missus what's happening to the supermarket prices since the vote.

[Wragbyred]

Losing money???
Explain how

Ask your missus what's happening to the supermarket prices since the vote.

I think you'll find that's called inflation, happens every year you know :roll:

[scott_powell]

I blame brexit for the rise in Freddo Frog prices. Disgrace.

[El_Nombre]

Losing money???
Explain how

Ask your missus what's happening to the supermarket prices since the vote.

I think you'll find that's called inflation, happens every year you know :roll:

Do we have to pay a (Conservative estimate) 25 billion pound divorce bill every year, plunge the pound and risk our trade deals? But no, can't possibly be losing money out of this.

Before you even get to the non consequential things like human rights.

[Manchester Saddler]

Losing money???
Explain how

Ask your missus what's happening to the supermarket prices since the vote.

I think you'll find that's called inflation, happens every year you know :roll:

And will rise and rise after Brexit.

It's amazing how Brexiteers simply cannot or simply refuse to see how much this is all going to cost us!

Total denial!!

[Wragbyred]

Losing money???
Explain how

Ask your missus what's happening to the supermarket prices since the vote.

I think you'll find that's called inflation, happens every year you know :roll:

And will rise and rise after Brexit.

It's amazing how Brexiteers simply cannot or simply refuse to see how much this is all going to cost us!

Total denial!!

And it will rise and rise even without Brexit :roll:
It's amazing how Remainers simply pin everything bad onto Brexit

However I agree with Scott, if Freddos rise in price, I want another referendum!!

[Manchester Saddler]

What do you think is going to happen then, Wragbyred?

Do you think prices will fall?

Will we all be better off?

If so, why do you think that?