Port Vale (H) Tues 25th April, 7.45pm

[Guest]

And so those heady dreams of 11th slip from our grasp.

To be fair, giving a few youngsters a go was probably right for us though as others have said, if I was a Gills fan I'd be a bit miffed. But on reflection it's not our problem - a bit like Tony Pulis and a Stoke side that looked a bit lack lustre against his former side on the last day of a season all those years ago.

That reminds me... it's more or less a year to the day that Gillingham capitulated in injury time at Burton, isn't it?

Yeah; balls to 'em.

Yes, a 92nd-minute winner that cost us promotion.

[coop63]

Liam who rang WM - what a tosser. Clearly not been all season.

Dobson was a cut above.

We were ok. Deserved a win.

They scored a great goal - class infact.

Deserved a win - are you joking mate?

Dobson was clearly MOTM I'll agree there and the shot from Eagles was a cracker but we were useless for the most part - take Saturday and today and we look one of the worst teams in this division by current standards..

5 defeats in the last 8 games by the way....

[Gripper]

Liam who rang WM - what a tosser. Clearly not been all season.

Dobson was a cut above.

We were ok. Deserved a win.

They scored a great goal - class infact.

Deserved a win - are you joking mate?

Dobson was clearly MOTM I'll agree there and the shot from Eagles was a cracker but we were useless for the most part - take Saturday and today and we look one of the worst teams in this division by current standards..

5 defeats in the last 8 games by the way....

If we'd put away just 2 of our chances - Morris hit the bar and Baka through on the keeper - they wouldve been out of sight.

I've been at all 5 defeats - you don't need to tell me how bad it's been pal.

[Guest]

Vale have Fleetwood Saturday who need to win to go up automatically - Gills have the Cobblers. Might be worth putting a coupla bob on either game - just for interest sake seeing as there's no interest at Walsall now. I almost changed my flights to go see this game - glad I didn!!!!. First season since I was 7 that I will not have seen a home game at least once. Gutted!

I'm glad I didn't change my flights back to HK after Easter. Missed Coventry and Vale, but did see 5 points from 9.

[leics_saddler]

Thank god the season ends this week.
What an indictment that is on the state of affairs.

[chunkster]

well the only good things to come out of tonight is i thought roberts looked a very good player, and dobson for me was man of the match and i got my saddlers club membership renewed.. i don't think that we have come out of it with ant credit though playing what looked like the youth team towards the end of the game. that tobias kid looked awful and scared to death of the ball. backa looked a forlorn figure up front on his own. the system that we play is piss poor. and it had 0-0 written all over it until eagles pulled that worldy out of the bag.

[giglee]

First 15-20 minutes we were dreadful, utter tosh. We improved slightly after and matched Vale - that is to say we went from 2/10 performance to a 3/10. A good save from their keeper from a corner and a decent shot from Morris were our only chances in the first half. They almost scored with the last kick of the first half after some inept defending.

Second half we were much improved, Baka was much more involved and the ball was moved quicker and with more purpose. It looked like there was only one team in it (Vale looked very much the relegation contenders they are). Unfortunately there was a massive lack of end product and the only proper chance was Baka's lob, which he needed to put a bit more power on. Morris was the only other player that seemed capable of scoring but was too often wasteful. Then a great wonder strike from them and that was that.

Positive points:
+ Roberts played excellently, he was strong, quick and read the game well. Played better than Preston so looks a good prospect.
+ Whatever JW said to them at half-time worked, we were much better after.
+ Dobson had a great game, my MOTM, passing was excellent, superb skills under pressure and harried constantly.

Negative points:
- Chambers looked off the pace, especially in the first half. Was far too weak.
- General lack of penetration was so obvious, no player could go through the middle and it seemed like most didn't have the confidence to shoot or take their man on. Morris was the main exception to this.
- JW substitutes baffled me. They couldn't handle Baka in the second half, so obviously he took him off :roll: . He didn't even replace him with Makris, so without a striker we couldn't hold up the ball and had no way of scoring after they did. It's utter BS when he says we're aiming for top half of the table when he makes negative substitutions like that against very, very poor opposition.

Apologies for the length, just had a lot of thoughts I wanted to say.

[vorny]

Couldn't go tonight because i had athletics training and schoolwork. Looks like it was time well spent. My only regret now is going to Coventry on Saturday after missing Swindon and Shrewsbury because of holidays .

[coop63]

Couldn't go tonight because i had athletics training and schoolwork. Looks like it was time well spent. My only regret now is going to Coventry on Saturday after missing Swindon and Shrewsbury because of holidays .

Mate - you were lucky to have other commitments! I'm pretty sure you get more benefit from the athletics training and the schoolwork than you would have from the dross served up tonight..

If anyone can find an excuse for me to miss Sunday then I'm open to offers :roll:

[Larryhaggler1]

WTF was that Jon ?

You are clearly devoid of any management and attacking nouse.
What have you done to Morris who has gone backwards this season - constantly picking the wrong option.

Even when Vale went 5 at the back for the last few minutes we kept one up front and didn't change the shape.
The last few games have been the perfect chance to look at 2 up top but no same old same old.

I'm disgusted with your management tonight - I'm all for blooding young players, when they are ready. The kid who came on second half looked knackerd after his run and scared to death after that. Rabbit and headlights with most of them. Roberts did ok though.
Baka' s work rate is also poor he cannot play up on his own.
2 very poor teams tonight with absolutely no quality on show.
Something needs to, has to change or we are certain relegation fodder next season.
1 win in 9 ..........

[wednesburysaddler]

3 months ago we looked like a potential play off team now were nearer the relegation that play off zone

look at the scorers in recent games going back to January

only 5 goals have been scored by our front 2
clearly this is a problem that we have never addressed in January window/ loan window
I know others have chipped in but theres a pattern emerging as we don't play 2 up front plus the strikers are just not good enough
if it wasn't for others we would be relegated 5 goals is simply horrific and can only be blamed on the management team

port vale no goalscorer
Coventry no goalscorer
Swindon joe Edwards defender
shrewsbury morris midfielder
oxford makris STRIKER 1ST GOAL FOR CLUB
Bradford no goalscorer
southend moussa (2) midfielder
Fleetwood no goalscorer
Charlton JACKSON STRIKER
chesterfield laird defender
Oldham ozzy midfielder BAKAYOKO STRIKER
Wimbledon no goalscorer
peterboro ozzy midfielder morris midfielder
Scunthorpe no goalscorer
Bolton ozzy midfielder
Northampton preston defender ozzy midfielder
millwall no goalscorer
bury ozzy midfielder McCarthy (2) defender
Bristol rovers oconnell defender JACKSON STRIKER Edwards defender
sheff utd BAKAYOKO STRIKER McCarthy defender Edwards defender ozzy midfielder
Rochdale no goalscorer

[Walsallone]

As an advocate of trying our young players out before the end of the season I accept that there is a risk involved and so it proved tonight. The biggest positive for me was the form of Kory Roberts,Kouyhar also did well in the first half but his lack of match fitness caught up with him. The two 17 year olds didn't have much time to do much but we saw one excellent run from Hayles Doherty.
The biggest worry for me is Bakayoko who still has difficulty reading the game. One example a peach of a cross from McCarthy in the first half was allowed to pass just in front of him with the goal at his mercy. I never write young players off early but he needs to show improvement if he is to make it at this level.
One final point Dobson as others have said had a very good game and maybe he will be here next season.

[Cowshed]

Agree with what Whitney did tonight and I thought it was good club management

Experience for the youngsters was really all the club stood to gain from this fixture - and I only care about my club not any other

The emergence of Cory Roberts has been the highlight of the season's end I thought he was excellent and what a great prospect

Uts

[Ancient Moaner]

As an advocate of trying our young players out before the end of the season I accept that there is a risk involved and so it proved tonight. The biggest positive for me was the form of Kory Roberts,Kouyhar also did well in the first half but his lack of match fitness caught up with him. The two 17 year olds didn't have much time to do much but we saw one excellent run from Hayles Doherty.
The biggest worry for me is Bakayoko who still has difficulty reading the game. One example a peach of a cross from McCarthy in the first half was allowed to pass just in front of him with the goal at his mercy. I never write young players off early but he needs to show improvement if he is to make it at this level.
One final point Dobson as others have said had a very good game and maybe he will be here next season.

Always positive mate, I applaud your guts. We may need your enthusiasm next season as we struggle against relegation..............................we shall fight them on the beaches etc.

Realistically I can see Bonser's blood boiling, he is after all a Walsall supporter (kinda) and tonight that must have hurt.

[Fish]

Highlights (if you can call them that)

http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sp ... -port-vale

[Walsallone]

It is a strain sometimes AM being positive but the the alternative to me would be out of character. :D However the one thing us old timers have in common is that we have seen it all before...you may well say too many times :D but the thrill of seeing new young players emerge energises my support and keeps my enthusiasm going. Even in the bleakest times we have hope and they have been many bleaker times than finishing 12th in this division.

[Exile]

Disappointing. An air of inevitability given the team.

[Tom_1992]

Another gutless, tepid, negative performance to add to the list this season, JW simply has to go.

This situation reminds me a lot of Jimmy Mullen, points wise and table position weren't that bad in isolation but it was clear to all that the guy in charge hasn't got a clue and was leading us on a downward spiral. Hopefully the board act decisively and get a proper manager to have a full pre-season and work some wonders in the transfer market. Is it any wonder that JW is looking at non-league? We simply won't be able to attract other league one standard players like we were able to last season. Oztumer signed because of our style of play, what style do we have now? Nothing. We literally do nothing. It's not organised, the only reason we concede relatively few is because we play 15 defenders and 9 defensive mids, that's not organisation. Sort it out Bonser and co...

[yoda]

I realise to us it was a dead rubber, important to blood the young players, etc... but I can't lie - it does sting a lot more having paid £25 and sat in the cold to watch your rivals do you on your own turf.
Its important for managers as well as players to use these dead rubbers to learn and I'd be damn interested to know what Whitney has learned from this because it really wasn't great and I didn't see any changes that made it better.

Calls for him to be fired are a waste of keyboard strokes really; has any manager ever been fired for losing dead rubber games? The real assessment will be early next season and theres a mountain of work to do before then.

[El_Nombre]

Pre-game: This season is over. We need to give the young players a chance to show their worth for next year and so we can buy any replacements.

*Kouyar, Roberts, Mac start and lose the game*

Post-game: Just not good enough! Sack this clown, I paid 25 quid to watch these nobodies play bad football!

[Tom_1992]

ElNombre, if you read my post you will see that it's not just yesterday's result which is annoying most supporters, it's the continuous week in week out dirge that has ground us down. From the almost laughable press conferences, to bizarre team selections, negative tactics, non existent style of play, no noticeable improvement from the players and a whole load of other factors, I just don't understand how you think JW is the man to take us forward?

[yoda]

Pre-game: This season is over. We need to give the young players a chance to show their worth for next year and so we can buy any replacements.

*Kouyar, Roberts, Mac start and lose the game*

Post-game: Just not good enough! Sack this clown, I paid 25 quid to watch these nobodies play bad football!

Think the point of my post was lost (or maybe you were doing an overview and just happened to choose my £25 line by coincidence). It was that I recognise the need to play youths, etc (as long as all parties are learning something and not just doing it for the sake of it) but the loss still stung more than I expected.

Don't recall saying he should be fired as my opinion on him isn't really that black and white.

[Super Gabor]

Would be genuinely interested to hear from those unhappy about last night as to which players they thought had a poor game?

Of the changes, Roberts had a decent game as did Kouyar (first half). Dobson impressed hugely.

Not a great game but not half as bad as being painted by many.

As for the boo-ing at the end........why?

[lichsaddler]

Mixed opinions for me last night. Similarly to what some people have said, I thought the back 3, plus the 4 in midfield looked assured, particularly Dobson and Roberts. Beggars belief how Dobson hasn't played more games for us this season, I can easily see him going to a top league one club and playing 46 games next season in a promotion winning team, rather than coming back to us, picking splinters out his arse and suffering from Jon Whitney's non appreciation of a decent footballer.

On the other hand, the front three were completely inept. Kouhyar was really poor last night, Morris was very wasteful and didn't show any imagination, Baka, despite growing into the game, looked off the pace and Hayles-Docherty looked nowhere near ready for first team action. My main gripe with Baka is that it's clear to see that he has bags of technical ability, and a physical presence to match, but his attitude stinks sometimes. If he applied himself the same way that we saw from Bradshaw over the last few seasons, he could be a mighty fine striker, but I'm not sure he's got it in him.

[Tom_1992]

Would be genuinely interested to hear from those unhappy about last night as to which players they thought had a poor game?

Of the changes, Roberts had a decent game as did Kouyar (first half). Dobson impressed hugely.

Not a great game but not half as bad as being painted by many.

As for the boo-ing at the end........why?

Personally, my booing (and general frustration) was aimed at the manager, and that can also be said of the others who I was stood with in the upper.

Dobson, Chambers, Roberts and McCarthy had decent games, but don't forget we did lose 1-0 to a team who had lost their previous five games without scoring a goal...

[philthesaddler]

I dont get this constant criticism of Morris.

Every decent team needs a player that can carry the ball, because that's one of the easiest ways to turn defence in to attack. Morris is one of maybe 3 players in the squad that can run 50 yards with the ball at his feet, and he's got a powerful shot, and he makes things happen etc...yet he gets pelters. Don't get it.

[El_Nombre]

ElNombre, if you read my post you will see that it's not just yesterday's result which is annoying most supporters, it's the continuous week in week out dirge that has ground us down. From the almost laughable press conferences, to bizarre team selections, negative tactics, non existent style of play, no noticeable improvement from the players and a whole load of other factors, I just don't understand how you think JW is the man to take us forward?

I mean, you made a point that there is more to it than this team selection, which is fair ... then you asked me to defend a point I never made.

I don't think he is the man to take us forward. In fact, how he got a contract after the Barnsley shower was beyond me, it was obvious we needed a man with a bit more experience in charge to get promotion, if that is still the clubs aim mind you.

But yesterday was an absolute throwaway, as will Sunday be. He did the exact right thing. We are playing for nothing, anybody who won't be here next season, especially loanees, shouldn't be on the pitch. What do we possibly gain from it? We need to know what a strongest 11 is going to be heading into the transfer window with the inevitable leavers. People getting ate up about yesterdays team selection and subsequent result are delusional.

[El_Nombre]

Pre-game: This season is over. We need to give the young players a chance to show their worth for next year and so we can buy any replacements.

*Kouyar, Roberts, Mac start and lose the game*

Post-game: Just not good enough! Sack this clown, I paid 25 quid to watch these nobodies play bad football!

Think the point of my post was lost (or maybe you were doing an overview and just happened to choose my £25 line by coincidence). It was that I recognise the need to play youths, etc (as long as all parties are learning something and not just doing it for the sake of it) but the loss still stung more than I expected.

Don't recall saying he should be fired as my opinion on him isn't really that black and white.

No you are correct, I just chose some lines from random from the match reaction to show the difference in pregame attitude than post game. I'd rather play players to find out what they are made of for next season and lose than play a bunch of players that are probably going to bugger off anyway. At least then we will know who is worth keeping and who is worth replacing. Roberts could be great next season next to O'Conner

[chunkster]

As I have said, Dobson for me last night was a class above, the ball he sent to McCarthy on the wing in the 54th minute was class, Roberts played like an accomplished left back and I don't think he lost a ball all night, he not only has a good foot, but he can do something Baka doesn't do a lot of and that is win balls in the air. Morris is a good player he is just frustrating because he seems to make some poor decisions. The Afghan kid I thought did pretty well first half, and apart from the young Tobias I was pretty pleased with the youths. The one thing I would say is the whole performance as a team lacked any coherence.we seemed to be putting the ball into the box but there was nobody to attack it? I just wonder if by playing the team that he did, JW thought that he could escape criticism. Because if we had won he would take the credit and if we lose he just says " well it was an experimental team" :|

[Tom_1992]

ElNombre, if you read my post you will see that it's not just yesterday's result which is annoying most supporters, it's the continuous week in week out dirge that has ground us down. From the almost laughable press conferences, to bizarre team selections, negative tactics, non existent style of play, no noticeable improvement from the players and a whole load of other factors, I just don't understand how you think JW is the man to take us forward?

I mean, you made a point that there is more to it than this team selection, which is fair ... then you asked me to defend a point I never made.

I don't think he is the man to take us forward. In fact, how he got a contract after the Barnsley shower was beyond me, it was obvious we needed a man with a bit more experience in charge to get promotion, if that is still the clubs aim mind you.

But yesterday was an absolute throwaway, as will Sunday be. He did the exact right thing. We are playing for nothing, anybody who won't be here next season, especially loanees, shouldn't be on the pitch. What do we possibly gain from it? We need to know what a strongest 11 is going to be heading into the transfer window with the inevitable leavers. People getting ate up about yesterdays team selection and subsequent result are delusional.

Fair enough, I minsunderstood you as a Whitney fan. To those that do support him however, what do you actually see week in week out that gives you the confidence that's he's up to the job.

From last season's nightmares against Sheff U, Oldham, Bradford and Barnsley to this season's appallingly long list of failures, the writing is on the wall imo.