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Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Reports and reaction from the 2016-17 season as Walsall finished 14th in League 1
leics_saddler
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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:59 pm

Ancient Moaner wrote:And someone to score some bloomin goals of course!!!! Someone earlier, or possibly on another thread had the gall to state that our strike force was decent and that no recruitment would be necessary in the close season....claptrap, our 'goals for' statistic is one of the worst in the Division (including the relegated teams) so, not only is our fragility on crosses at the back a problem, had it not been for defenders/half backs goals this season, we would have been looking at a relegation spot at the moment, our attacking options are dire at best.


It was me.
And the reason I said it was because we play 8-1-1 half the time.
Despite the fact we have numbers at the back, we still can't defend as a unit.
You can't even hope to address the forwards when the defence is so poor.
It has to start with a GK and a CB with authority.

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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:01 pm


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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:08 pm

PT wrote:Nearly every week now we are seeing our team going out and at least matching the opposition. Then the flow is interrupted by either a goal ( to either side) or a change made by the opposition. We are then stumped. Our formulaic sub of a nine for a nine between 62 and 74 minutes happens, Whitney acts shocked when that doesn't improve things and we make a random change or two in the last ten.

Nearly every week it is the same. Whitney deserves some credit for sending the side out looking organised and motivated. But during the game he is lost and unless something freaky goes on (e.g Oztumer swinging one in from a corner or the opposition going down to ten or nine men) then the opposition dug out react to the unfolding situation far better than we do.

We lose leads more than we hold on to them and very often if the opposition score first, we're dead.


Very good! :wink:

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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:37 pm

I enjoyed the first half of my annual visit to the land of ovine carnal knowledge. The Sloppies looked a poor side and we were well in control but, yet again, were unable to finish them off. Their keeper was only seldom troubled.

I suppose it was inevitable that MacGillivray would come in for criticism (the moron seated behind me was moaning about him right from the kick-off!) and he certainly struggled on 2 or 3 crosses in the 2nd half. Have people forgotten what Etheridge was/is like on crosses - or O'Donnell before him, for that matter? He should stay in goal for the remaining games so that the staff can appraise him in a 1st team league game situation. It gives him valuable experience and helps the staff to assess whether we need to sign a new 'keeper for next season.

The second half was very disappointing. Once the Sloppies had equalised, we were under the cosh for about a quarter of an hour. As Codsall Saddler said, above, Osborn/Osborne/Osbourn/Osbourne just faded away until the last 10 minutes. Preston's passing skills are non-existent and we gave the ball away far too easily. Up front, Makris worked hard but rarely threatened while Bakayoko stood around and rarely threatened.. Is it written into Jackson's contract that he HAS to play part of every match? He contributed nothing as well. I can understand bringing on Cuvelier to give him much-needed game time - but to take Morris off?

Listening to Whitney's comments after the match, I do despair. For all of his fine words after the Charlton game, there has been no change. He complains (rightly) about the Sloppies goal about a cross from the left of our defence not being dealt with properly at the far post. Well how about putting left-sided players on the left side of our defence for a start, Jon? O'Connell should have stopped the cross and Preston and McCarthy were certainly caught out at the far post. Whitney complains that the players are not learning and keep repeating the same mistakes. He doesn't do irony, does he, our Jon? :mrgreen:

I hope that the Sloppies (and Port Fail) stay up. We need local derbies. I am disappointed that the sky-blue rent-dodgers are relegated. Never mind - the Blue-noses might be down - Zola must stay! :D :D

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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:04 am

chriss5471 wrote:
My view is we don't create enough chances, it's ok to blame the forwards but they spend most their time feeding off scraps. We need some flair and as much as he adds directness I don't think Morris is the answer as his I feel he loses or wastes the ball more often than not. We need at least one quality midfielder who takes the ball and makes a pass in the opposition half that puts them under pressure, too often are players are trying to salvage a poor final pass rather than trying to capitalise on a brilliant final pass.


Like, Romaine? :wink:

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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:22 am

JonnyOwen wrote:
Guest wrote:
JonnyOwen wrote:Got a ticket for this and was looking forward to it, however because of a groin strain that I got just last night, I now can't even lift my leg higher than an inch without being in pain.

No standard Shrewsbury away win for me this year then :cry: :evil:


Bad luck. I'll post a video for you later. (If I can get my Kodak Brownie to work.)

Thanks, much appreciated :lol:


Here you go.

https://youtu.be/upOwCndUNQA


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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:44 am


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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:52 am

Whats that now,6 without a win, on ya bike Jon

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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:21 am

Cowshed wrote:Ok so now we are officially bottom of the current form table

need

A keeper
Someone nasty at the back who won't put up with fairies defending
Someone to replace chambers engine in the middle who can win the ball AND distribute effectively
Someone nasty up front makris and Jackson should be released

Happy for the season to end now this is painful


It depends which form table you look at

On soccer stats the standard form is measured as the last 8 games and we are 15th in the division with 2 wins 3 losses and 3 draws..

That said it's painfully obvious this team isn't really moving forward as we continue to slip into the same mistakes game after game..

Can't hold a winning position and after scoring look odds on to concede - after that we can't pass or defend and it's always an alamo style end that defines the game...

I personally think Makris and Baka will form our front threat next season as the club simply will not spend money on another strikes after splashing the cash last year on Makris - a GK will obviously be signed as Neil's effectively signalled his intent to move on and I still feel we are in bad need of a ball winning dominant force to sort out this nonsense of not handling set pieces - we must have the worst record in the league in this area...

Like others I think it's a shame that we are likely to lose more local derbies next season but already feel it's going to be a tough old slog if we don't radically sort things in the summer - to do that we need fresh players as this management team obviously can't do it with training and tactics.... if we start badly the negativity will set in fast and although this sounds unavoidably pessimistic (it's not meant to be) ill be the first on here to predict that JW will be gone by the end of Nov (never mind Xmas!)

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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:31 am



Some of those fans really were in two minds wether to stand up or not when we scored weren't they?

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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:26 am

If we have no fire power how about Oldham 29 goals in 42 games.

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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:52 am

You cannot look at those highlights and say anything other than:
1. We had plenty of personnel in defence
2. They looked like statues

JW is currently going through the Smith stage of baffling substitutions.
He seems to think that doing the same thing every match will get different results.
Walsall can't shut up shop, so he might as well dispense with that idea and try something more creative and attacking.

These opposition teams are poor and there for the taking.
Let's try something really gung-ho against Swindon in front of a bank holiday crowd.
I'm sure they would appreciate it!

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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:42 pm

leics_saddler wrote:You cannot look at those highlights and say anything other than:
1. We had plenty of personnel in defence
2. They looked like statues

JW is currently going through the Smith stage of baffling substitutions.
He seems to think that doing the same thing every match will get different results.
Walsall can't shut up shop, so he might as well dispense with that idea and try something more creative and attacking.

These opposition teams are poor and there for the taking.
Let's try something really gung-ho against Swindon in front of a bank holiday crowd.
I'm sure they would appreciate it!



Let's also hope that we don't repeat that 1-4 Boxing day shocker, they were a very 'different' Swindon then of course, but this team are currently fighting for their 3rd Division lives, we are particularly suspect to attack minded opposition............
a tad nervous about this game.

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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:52 pm

leics_saddler wrote:
JW is currently going through the Smith stage of baffling substitutions.


I don't think they are baffling at all. In fact they are entirel logical........


.......if you are a physiotherapist and not a football manager.

I think at least our last ten unforced substitutions ( in other words excluding the Oztumer for Moussa forced change at Southend) have been a striker for a striker somewhere between 60 and 75 minutes. Really logical if you are a physio and your team plays with one up top. You are basically asking your number 9 to run his arse into the ground and when his "levels" appear to be dipping you do a straight swap and ask another number 9 to do the same thing.

And yesterday. With an eye on another game in a couple of days you make the physiotherapist call and try to save legs and inject energy from the bench half way through the second half. It's like those video games where each player has an energy bar and when that runs low you make a change.

These aren't "baffling" calls. They're just the decisions of a man who understands the physical condition of human beings more than most but who can't read a game of football as well as his peers. So we go into games looking strong, organised and determined but get undone (usually in the second half) because of the myriad of variables that can happen during the game which can't be countered through "energy bar" in game management. If you are 3-1 down or 1-0 up, surely your intervention needs to be different. But we do the same thing because seventy minutes of running around is seventy of running around and regardless of the game situation legs will be legs.

You can see Whitney getting frustrated with the Groundhog Day post match interviews and I think he knows that it his own limitations that are leading to these. Putting great people into the wrong role happens in all organisations. We've done it here and I think most, including the man himself, can see it.

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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:07 pm

I do try and stay away from here and the constant pedaling of DOOM & GLOOM, but I couldn't resist this time.

At the end of last season I visited the Blue & Amber forum and they were all saying if we failed to get promotion in the play offs we would find ourselves in relegation trouble as a complete rebuild would be required following the expected loss of most (all?) key players. They were also fairly chipper about their own prospects and had a lot of faith in their own summer rebuild. There were a couple of our fans that were agreeing, including FBIG (Gaz) who predicted them as dark horses for promotion on the Podcast!

Yet we visited there yesterday and instead of their prophecy being correct, we still look miles ahead of them, comfortable and ambling to a draw - because we didn't need a result and yet again they are scrapping for their place in the division. Be thankful Walsall fans that we still haven't sunk to their level and are unlikely to anytime soon. Furthermore, Jon aint going nowhere, so get behind the team and stop bloody moaning. Oh yeah, and if your the guy who thinks it is a good idea spend an entire 90 minutes getting on a rookie goalkeepers back, a chance to build his confidence, can you please come on here and explain your reasoning? I'd be really interested to see what you have to say? That's if you can work out how to turn on a computer without dribbling.

Seen a few of them crisitising our 'tame' away support :shock: Just because we had nothing to play for and they managed more than 1 Salop chant in 90 minutes they are now ultras! Granted, they were a little better than usual (can't get much worse) but that place always reminds me how much worse our home ground could be.

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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:20 am

Pedagogue wrote:I enjoyed the first half of my annual visit to the land of ovine carnal knowledge. The Sloppies looked a poor side and we were well in control but, yet again, were unable to finish them off. Their keeper was only seldom troubled.

I suppose it was inevitable that MacGillivray would come in for criticism (the moron seated behind me was moaning about him right from the kick-off!) and he certainly struggled on 2 or 3 crosses in the 2nd half. Have people forgotten what Etheridge was/is like on crosses - or O'Donnell before him, for that matter? He should stay in goal for the remaining games so that the staff can appraise him in a 1st team league game situation. It gives him valuable experience and helps the staff to assess whether we need to sign a new 'keeper for next season.

The second half was very disappointing. Once the Sloppies had equalised, we were under the cosh for about a quarter of an hour. As Codsall Saddler said, above, Osborn/Osborne/Osbourn/Osbourne just faded away until the last 10 minutes. Preston's passing skills are non-existent and we gave the ball away far too easily. Up front, Makris worked hard but rarely threatened while Bakayoko stood around and rarely threatened.. Is it written into Jackson's contract that he HAS to play part of every match? He contributed nothing as well. I can understand bringing on Cuvelier to give him much-needed game time - but to take Morris off?

Listening to Whitney's comments after the match, I do despair. For all of his fine words after the Charlton game, there has been no change. He complains (rightly) about the Sloppies goal about a cross from the left of our defence not being dealt with properly at the far post. Well how about putting left-sided players on the left side of our defence for a start, Jon? O'Connell should have stopped the cross and Preston and McCarthy were certainly caught out at the far post. Whitney complains that the players are not learning and keep repeating the same mistakes. He doesn't do irony, does he, our Jon? :mrgreen:

I hope that the Sloppies (and Port Fail) stay up. We need local derbies. I am disappointed that the sky-blue rent-dodgers are relegated. Never mind - the Blue-noses might be down - Zola must stay! :D :D


Pretty much my view, the key moment for me was the Morris substitution when we lost what little creativity and momentum [if you can describe the teams progress something a little over walking pace] we had. There is no doubt that Shrewsbury were a poor shower but our efforts appeared to be merely just doing enough and no sign of any concerted effort to add to our lead. I thought that O'Connor had a pretty good game, often moping up after weak efforts by O'Connell and surprisingly Preston. In the last few games I think that McCarthy appears to have settled into just playing out the games without any of his previous turbo charged charges up and down the wings, a very disappointing performance......... again.
Average performance to match our statistics won 13 drawn 16 and lost 13, I just hope that Mondays performance against Swindon will be a little more dynamic?

Interesting views by other posters, oft repeated on every thread, including some baffling theories on why we are not winning every game and more bizarrely, in my view, the theory of 'how goals affect the outcome of matches' :? Apparently, every game we have managed to win is because of cunning changes made by the oppositions 'proper manager', lucky shots/corners/headers/deflections/penalties/substitutions/sendings off and remarkably the same criteria when we lose or drawn a game. If only we had a 'proper manager' who thought like a proper manager then we might have achieved a 'proper' league position like every team below us in the league who all have proper managers but were all probably just unlucky or something like that. Add your own theory to this baffling state of affairs if you like.

:D

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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:04 am

Very good Cully. :D

Why do you think we tend to do worse in second halves than first halves and tend to have real difficulty holding onto leads? Do you think making the same substitution at roughly the same time in every single game is a good thing that would confound you if you were the opposition? Maybe it would!

You appear to think the respective ability of the managers have no influence on these things. That maybe second halves just don't suite us and regardless of half-time team talks and in game management our checkerboard kit is destined to not function properly after 4:15 on a Saturday afternoon.

DLLLDD :arrow: :idea:

And we were winning in each of the D's and two goals up in one of the L's. But the manager has no influence on what happens of course. He told me yesterday. It's about players taking responsibility and accountability.

See you at Coventry? I'll buy you a pint at half-time as we'll be either winning or drawing. :wink:

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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:20 am

PT wrote:Very good Cully. :D

Why do you think we tend to do worse in second halves than first halves and tend to have real difficulty holding onto leads? Do you think making the same substitution at roughly the same time in every single game is a good thing that would confound you if you were the opposition? Maybe it would!

You appear to think the respective ability of the managers have no influence on these things. That maybe second halves just don't suite us and regardless of half-time team talks and in game management our checkerboard kit is destined to not function properly after 4:15 on a Saturday afternoon.

DLLLDD :arrow: :idea:

And we were winning in each of the D's and two goals up in one of the L's. But the manager has no influence on what happens of course. He told me yesterday. It's about players taking responsibility and accountability.

See you at Coventry? I'll buy you a pint at half-time as we'll be either winning or drawing. :wink:


No different to Dean Smith surely? How many 2 goal leads did the team throw away between 11-13 for example. *awaits the reply of yes but he didn't have the luxury of Moussa waddling around on the pitch budget line.* :D

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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:44 am

Soccer HQ - you're right about respective budgets , Moussa has shown glimpses of his worth in the last few weeks (but not enough to merit a new contract!!!).

The 11-13 period you are also quite right. Smith was also adept at mis-managing leads. Bloody awful at times. But Smith picked us up at a point when actually having a lead to manage was a novelty. Whitney didn't.

If I've mis-read it and we should have re-booted our expectations in the summer to how they were immediately post-Hutchings then I'm sorry but I thought we'd progressed. Maybe not. And on Monday, with a whopping three games to spare I should be delighted with the fact that we should be mathematically safe from relegation. Yay and indeed whoop.

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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:02 pm

PT wrote:Soccer HQ - you're right about respective budgets , Moussa has shown glimpses of his worth in the last few weeks (but not enough to merit a new contract!!!).

The 11-13 period you are also quite right. Smith was also adept at mis-managing leads. Bloody awful at times. But Smith picked us up at a point when actually having a lead to manage was a novelty. Whitney didn't.

If I've mis-read it and we should have re-booted our expectations in the summer to how they were immediately post-Hutchings then I'm sorry but I thought we'd progressed. Maybe not. And on Monday, with a whopping three games to spare I should be delighted with the fact that we should be mathematically safe from relegation. Yay and indeed whoop.


Trouble is PT when Smith acquired that skill it was 2015. At that point he had been in charge for 4 years. Whitney has been in barely a year. Sometimes these things take time.

I said in August I expected a mid table season and it's panned out that way. Looking like a relegation battle in September-October but the team pulled through and just when things were looking exciting in 7th at the start of March the team quickly realised their level and stopped winning.

I just don't think Whitney has done that badly considering the quality he's lost over the last year which is Sawyers, Henry, Demitrou and Bradshaw.

Yes he has had a decent budget but it's still been the usual mix of freebies, some loan players and the odd used to be decent player at this level who can't hack it anymore (Jackson and Moussa).

He can't go out and get a James Hanson like Sheffield United have done to get over the line or sign Wyke like Bradford did to secure top 6 when they hit a dodgy run of form. That's 2 of the top 6 right there to compete with and then you have Bolton with Wheater who played for them in the prem.

I think it's been an o.k season which will hopefully end with at least two more wins and a top half finish. Only 3 points off Posh in 11th and we saw in mid February they are no better as a team.

At the moment I'm looking at Gillingham who were roughly on a par with Walsall bar the last 6 games last season. They kept the same manager going into this season, Dack, McDonald and all these superstars and yet they've been battling relegation all year, how so? It's tough for teams on 4--5k gates to challenge for promotion every season, let's see how Fleetwood do next season if they miss out this year.

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Re: Shrewsbury Town (A) Friday 14 Apr, 3pm

Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:24 pm

Fair enough S HQ. I certainly didn't expect us to go up this season either. I think Whitney did a decent job at assembling a side on the back of the summer carnage and has done OK in the loan market. And as I say above, we do look motivated, dangerous and organised in the early parts of most games.

It just tends to go a bit wrong as the game unfolds.

I think In this league, this season with this budget we could have done a lot better than any of us expected with a manager who could navigate his way through third division football matches.

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