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Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Reports and reaction from the 2016-17 season as Walsall finished 14th in League 1
WalsallMem
 
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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:21 am

scott_powell wrote:
WalsallMem wrote:
scott_powell wrote:Bottlers the lot of them.

Whitney can fudge off. Back to the form before Christmas now. Sort it out.


:lol: :roll:


Sorry, who are you?


Who am I? Who are you? :roll: :lol: I've read this forum for sometime.

I thought you were a supporter. A supporter that tried to positively improve the atmosphere. It's a shame you have turned out to be another fair weather, fickle plastic fan that spits his dummy out every time things aren't rosy or going your way.

You only want to improve the atmosphere during seasons like last year - well there's only 1 of those seasons once in a blue moon son, so you just continue to support the club when it's doing well then disappear with the rest of them when the going gets tough.

It's clear you are already regarded by a few on here as a joke so you just crack on

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:56 am

WalsallMem wrote:
scott_powell wrote:
WalsallMem wrote:
scott_powell wrote:Bottlers the lot of them.

Whitney can fudge off. Back to the form before Christmas now. Sort it out.


:lol: :roll:


Sorry, who are you?


Who am I? Who are you? :roll: :lol: I've read this forum for sometime.

I thought you were a supporter. A supporter that tried to positively improve the atmosphere. It's a shame you have turned out to be another fair weather, fickle plastic fan that spits his dummy out every time things aren't rosy or going your way.

You only want to improve the atmosphere during seasons like last year - well there's only 1 of those seasons once in a blue moon son, so you just continue to support the club when it's doing well then disappear with the rest of them when the going gets tough.

It's clear you are already regarded by a few on here as a joke so you just crack on


At games I am 100% behind the team. I release all my frustrations on here. I haven't been to a game in a few months due to funds, not results. If I were as fickle as you say I'd have returned during our run of winning at home surely? I will be back next season onwards regardless of how this season ends. I am not fickle, I was just pissed off at surrendering a 2 goal lead against an opposition we needed to beat.

Now I'm calmer about the result my initial reaction was over the top, I admit.

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:31 am

scott_powell wrote:
WalsallMem wrote:
scott_powell wrote:
WalsallMem wrote:
scott_powell wrote:Bottlers the lot of them.

Whitney can fudge off. Back to the form before Christmas now. Sort it out.


:lol: :roll:


Sorry, who are you?


Who am I? Who are you? :roll: :lol: I've read this forum for sometime.

I thought you were a supporter. A supporter that tried to positively improve the atmosphere. It's a shame you have turned out to be another fair weather, fickle plastic fan that spits his dummy out every time things aren't rosy or going your way.

You only want to improve the atmosphere during seasons like last year - well there's only 1 of those seasons once in a blue moon son, so you just continue to support the club when it's doing well then disappear with the rest of them when the going gets tough.

It's clear you are already regarded by a few on here as a joke so you just crack on


At games I am 100% behind the team. I release all my frustrations on here. I haven't been to a game in a few months due to funds, not results. If I were as fickle as you say I'd have returned during our run of winning at home surely? I will be back next season onwards regardless of how this season ends. I am not fickle, I was just pissed off at surrendering a 2 goal lead against an opposition we needed to beat.

Now I'm calmer about the result my initial reaction was over the top, I admit.


fair play to yourself,

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:43 am

Not sure why there is all of a sudden criticism of Whitney? He's never looked like being a decent manager. I gave him credit for improving our form during the middle 3 months of the season - but any sensible person has to temper that credit with common sense.

Yes, he achieved an improvement in form, but it has only been because we've played 5 defenders and 2 defensive midfielders, coupled with the widely accepted assertion that the league this season is extremely poor.

Yesterday was a case in point - this league is so poor that on paper, Southend and Walsall were only 2 positions apart at kickoff, but on the pitch, we were worlds apart - they had Robinson, Ranger and Cox as a forward line, we had Makris and Moussa, just let that sink in.

On to the game...

Southend had the better of the opening 20minutes, and as is usual, our defence got carved open from a cross, Ranger missed a very good chance.

We then scored 2 goals in quick succession, both against the run of play, both due to very good work by Edwards on the left wing, and both very neat finishes from Moussa.

Apart from that, we created nothing. I honestly don't remember another attempt on goal.

Second half, we were passive - no presence up front whatsoever, so much so that Southend subbed off their centre half and brought Demetriou on.

Their first goal was a bit harsh, the ref allowed the free kick to be taken quickly, before Etheridge was even looking - which despite people on twitter saying on Twitter that is perfectly fine, doesn't seem right to me - surely the ref needs to check the keeper is looking up?

After that we crumbled.

By 60 minutes, Dobson was blowing out of his arse, as were Moussa, as was Makris. All this talk of having a great physio, isn't it amazing how unfit we look?

Their second goal was another cross/corner which we failed to defend, and their third was an excellently taken freekick by Cox. The freekick looked a bit of a dive TBH, almost as if once Cox was on, they went looking for freekicks around the edge of the area, but the ref fell for this ruse.

After that, we were lucky not to concede another couple, with Etheridge pulling off a decent save.

So...the dissection.

We're a poor side, Whitney is a poor manager. He did absolutely nothing to counter Phil Brown yesterday, he just stood by passively allowing the game to slip out of our hands. From the post-match comments that I have seen from Whitney, he's blamed set piece defending, but the reason we're giving away set pieces in dangerous places is because we don't defend from the front! It's not rocket science, but obviously Jon can't grasp it.

All season we've been far too vulnerable to crosses, but you've got to look at the source of the problem - why are so many crosses coming in? Answer: Because we give teams far too much space on the periphery of our box, hence we either see a lot of crosses coming in, or we give away a lot of fouls as teams exploit this weakness.

Whitney tried to fix this problem by his mid season swap to 5-3-1-1 from 4-4-1-1, but this tries to fix the problem by putting an extra big bloke in the middle to head it away, but completely ignores solving the problem at source (ie stopping the crosses coming in).

He's signed so many unfit players it's crazy, and most of us were saying that at the start of the season. Moussa got rejected by Southend because he wasn't fit enough, surprise surprise, he had to be subbed off yesterday (after being subbed on after 15 mins!). Dobson was blowing out of his arse, Makris barely got near the ball all afternoon, and Preston appears to have put weight on. Our fitness is shocking.

I'm not going to change my tune on Whitney, I don't think he's fit to be our manager. He's not fit to clean Graydon's shoes, or Richard Money's , we as a club - a club relatively flush after some big sales - should be aiming higher than a glorified physio as manager.

Good to see Makris start yesterday, finally people will start seeing that he's not a professional footballer, he's more likely a window cleaner who's won a competition to be a pro footballer for a year.

He didn't win a single header or challenge yesterday, didn't have a single attempt on goal, didn't get in behind once, and looked nackered from about half an hour in. He's got no pace, no height, no strength, no movement, no guile, no skill - easily one of the worst forwards I've seen play for Walsall, even Ngoo and Dickinson were at least a handful for opposing defenders because of their sheer size.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned some nice inter-play with Moussa? Must have missed that. Someone said he worked hard? Jesus, what world do you live in? Don't you remember the shift's Leitao used to put in? The shifts Mooney used to put in? Remember how they would create chances just because they would chase and chase and chase and chase until defenders made mistakes - have you ever seen that from Makris? No. Will you ever see it? No.

Who ever is responsible for signing Makris (assuming it isn't a fiddle), should be fired.

It's sad to see because he's a young lad, but he's simply no where near the standard we require - those supporting him, or saying he'll come good next season are either deluded, or have been watching Walsall too long and are blinded by the pound signs. Still, even those will come to the realisation soon.

I think the club have already come to that realisation, and will let him go in the close season.

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:18 am

Yes fairs Scott. Its an emotional game, nice to see someone with passion I guess rather than the usual drivel from the bloke above, bang on the money with his usual clueless ramblings haha. I would be interested to know how many read past the first sentences of his self indulgent expertise and well informed insights with all going on at the club. :roll: He's probably the same guy that talks the arse off the bus driver with his vast array of knowledge

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:47 am

Whitters wrote:
chunkster wrote:
Whitters wrote:So Moussa got 2 - is he worth another contract?
NO it is the only thing he has done all season. and as someone pointed out earlier he has only got 3 months left on his contract, funny he should put in a performance like today :?

Maybe he's been played in the wrong position.
He scored 2, he's a goalscorer, surely we need goalscorers?



Blimey Whitters! how come when I suggest that, I have a new a-hole reamed by.........let me think? :wink:

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:00 pm

We are really lucky on this site you know to have phil to tell us where we are going wrong. I love to read his erudite and lengthy posts............ :D :D :D :mrgreen:

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:19 pm

WalsallMem wrote:Yes fairs Scott. Its an emotional game, nice to see someone with passion I guess rather than the usual drivel from the bloke above, bang on the money with his usual clueless ramblings haha. I would be interested to know how many read past the first sentences of his self indulgent expertise and well informed insights with all going on at the club. :roll: He's probably the same guy that talks the arse off the bus driver with his vast array of knowledge


Frankly I don't care what others think - I'm rarely wrong, if you'd rather live in an echo chamber world of swinging from one extreme to another, one minute lauding Whitney, the next claiming he "doesn't know what he's doing", as the prevailing mood dictates, then that's fine, but that just makes you the walsall version of Tonka.
Last edited by philthesaddler on Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:21 pm

SWS11 wrote:Dare to hope? :D

No. :(

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:16 pm

philthesaddler wrote:
WalsallMem wrote:Yes fairs Scott. Its an emotional game, nice to see someone with passion I guess rather than the usual drivel from the bloke above, bang on the money with his usual clueless ramblings haha. I would be interested to know how many read past the first sentences of his self indulgent expertise and well informed insights with all going on at the club. :roll: He's probably the same guy that talks the arse off the bus driver with his vast array of knowledge


Frankly I don't care what others think - I'm rarely wrong, if you'd rather live in an echo chamber world of swinging from one extreme to another, one minute lauding Whitney, the next claiming he "doesn't know what he's doing", as the prevailing mood dictates, then that's fine, but that just makes you the walsall version of Tonka.


I made this exact point 2 weeks ago.

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:38 pm

philthesaddler wrote:
WalsallMem wrote:Yes fairs Scott. Its an emotional game, nice to see someone with passion I guess rather than the usual drivel from the bloke above, bang on the money with his usual clueless ramblings haha. I would be interested to know how many read past the first sentences of his self indulgent expertise and well informed insights with all going on at the club. :roll: He's probably the same guy that talks the arse off the bus driver with his vast array of knowledge


Frankly I don't care what others think - I'm rarely wrong, if you'd rather live in an echo chamber world of swinging from one extreme to another, one minute lauding Whitney, the next claiming he "doesn't know what he's doing", as the prevailing mood dictates, then that's fine, but that just makes you the walsall version of Tonka.


To be quite honest Phil I have been a long term reader of this site and used to post many moons ago under a long-lost login. In all that time I have never once found your insights and thoughts to be correct. Furthermore, who on this planet states 'they are rarely wrong' generally such things are for others to judge not you - Mr Modest (clueless) strikes again.

I do accept that the above is my opinion whether I believe I am rarely wrong or not - personally I wouldn't be so arrogant. Easy to see why this website struggles these days with the same old arrogant, egotistical posters claiming to be inside the club, inanely rambling to themselves believing they are, and I quote 'rarely wrong' :lol:

You're great for comedy value, I'll give you that.

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:22 pm

Welcome back WalsallMem. I've been on here yonks so would probably remember you from your previous incarnation if you'd like to share?

As for Phil, he watches Walsall all over the country which probably gives him more insight than most. Doesn't mean he's always right or indeed rarely wrong as there are some that follow us everywhere for whom "barmy army" is very apt. I reckon it does mean though that his opinions should be respected , regardless of how they are expressed.

Not that he needs me to defend him.

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:41 am

It's very easy to support your team when they're winning 2-0.
It's much more difficult to support your team when the opposition has brought the score back to 2-2.
Chanting "2-0 and we f****d it up" does your team no good at all and destroys the confidence even more. This is when the team need you to support them more than ever because it can and does make a difference when the fans are behind you.

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:17 am

If that happened SADDLA the idiots should be ashamed of themselves. I was chided on here for not going to many away matches these days but if that is our 'away" I wouldn't want to be there.
As for Phil it is truly amazing how he manages to get to all our defeats/poor performances but never attends when we play well or win!! You are too kind PT but then again I think your judgment has become skewed over this last season. JW was appointed Manager,he was a risk ,we all knew that and hasn't done too badly. He deserves support as does our team as we rebuild almost completely from a team that took 5 years to build.

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:28 am

scott_powell wrote:Whitney is a great physiotherapist.
Whitney is a poor to average manager.

Sooner people get that into their thick skulls the better.

I can take losses but not after being 2-0 up. Absolutely shocking to lose from that position under any management.


Carlo Ancelotti must be absolutely useless then :roll:

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:30 am

The reaction to this game is laughable.

Before it , it was almost exclusively losing predictions and negativity.

We post a result and a performance much closer than a few of those predictions and ... it's an outrage and a disgrace.

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:35 am

JonnyOwen wrote:Just got back in.

First half we were good. Makris worked hard and linked up well and Moussa had two fantastic (and very similar) finishes, a spark being shown of the player we hoped we had signed! Preston dominated Nile Ranger for the most part with them only having 1 or 2 real chances.

2nd half was an embarrassment. Lost every 2nd ball, lost every header, couldn't pass it out from the back to save our lives. The moment the first went in (and I thought Etheridge could have done better with it from my angle), I knew it was going to slide into their favour. Poor substitutions too. Why didn't Dobson or Edwards who had no influence in the second half come off? Why take off our best player in the match in Moussa who is on a hat trick and stick on Kieron Morris who regularly disappears in away matches? Why not bring on another defender to shore us up for the long ball? Why not go to a 4 and get another bank of 4 in front to pick up the loose long balls? Why has Etheridge stopped coming for crosses (this may be a little harsh)?

So many questions about that bewildering second half. Doesn't help that there was a 3 hour drive back too. Very poor afternoon.


That is a little harsh ... he never usually comes for them in the first place!

It's not always the case but half of our set piece problems would be remedied if Etheridge committed to crosses more often. He can be very happy to stand on his line sometimes and blame the defenders around him.

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:42 am

philthesaddler wrote:Not sure why there is all of a sudden criticism of Whitney? He's never looked like being a decent manager. I gave him credit for improving our form during the middle 3 months of the season - but any sensible person has to temper that credit with common sense.

Yes, he achieved an improvement in form, but it has only been because we've played 5 defenders and 2 defensive midfielders, coupled with the widely accepted assertion that the league this season is extremely poor.

Yesterday was a case in point - this league is so poor that on paper, Southend and Walsall were only 2 positions apart at kickoff, but on the pitch, we were worlds apart - they had Robinson, Ranger and Cox as a forward line, we had Makris and Moussa, just let that sink in.

On to the game...

Southend had the better of the opening 20minutes, and as is usual, our defence got carved open from a cross, Ranger missed a very good chance.

We then scored 2 goals in quick succession, both against the run of play, both due to very good work by Edwards on the left wing, and both very neat finishes from Moussa.

Apart from that, we created nothing. I honestly don't remember another attempt on goal.

Second half, we were passive - no presence up front whatsoever, so much so that Southend subbed off their centre half and brought Demetriou on.

Their first goal was a bit harsh, the ref allowed the free kick to be taken quickly, before Etheridge was even looking - which despite people on twitter saying on Twitter that is perfectly fine, doesn't seem right to me - surely the ref needs to check the keeper is looking up?

After that we crumbled.

By 60 minutes, Dobson was blowing out of his arse, as were Moussa, as was Makris. All this talk of having a great physio, isn't it amazing how unfit we look?

Their second goal was another cross/corner which we failed to defend, and their third was an excellently taken freekick by Cox. The freekick looked a bit of a dive TBH, almost as if once Cox was on, they went looking for freekicks around the edge of the area, but the ref fell for this ruse.

After that, we were lucky not to concede another couple, with Etheridge pulling off a decent save.

So...the dissection.

We're a poor side, Whitney is a poor manager. He did absolutely nothing to counter Phil Brown yesterday, he just stood by passively allowing the game to slip out of our hands. From the post-match comments that I have seen from Whitney, he's blamed set piece defending, but the reason we're giving away set pieces in dangerous places is because we don't defend from the front! It's not rocket science, but obviously Jon can't grasp it.

All season we've been far too vulnerable to crosses, but you've got to look at the source of the problem - why are so many crosses coming in? Answer: Because we give teams far too much space on the periphery of our box, hence we either see a lot of crosses coming in, or we give away a lot of fouls as teams exploit this weakness.

Whitney tried to fix this problem by his mid season swap to 5-3-1-1 from 4-4-1-1, but this tries to fix the problem by putting an extra big bloke in the middle to head it away, but completely ignores solving the problem at source (ie stopping the crosses coming in).

He's signed so many unfit players it's crazy, and most of us were saying that at the start of the season. Moussa got rejected by Southend because he wasn't fit enough, surprise surprise, he had to be subbed off yesterday (after being subbed on after 15 mins!). Dobson was blowing out of his arse, Makris barely got near the ball all afternoon, and Preston appears to have put weight on. Our fitness is shocking.

I'm not going to change my tune on Whitney, I don't think he's fit to be our manager. He's not fit to clean Graydon's shoes, or Richard Money's , we as a club - a club relatively flush after some big sales - should be aiming higher than a glorified physio as manager.

Good to see Makris start yesterday, finally people will start seeing that he's not a professional footballer, he's more likely a window cleaner who's won a competition to be a pro footballer for a year.

He didn't win a single header or challenge yesterday, didn't have a single attempt on goal, didn't get in behind once, and looked nackered from about half an hour in. He's got no pace, no height, no strength, no movement, no guile, no skill - easily one of the worst forwards I've seen play for Walsall, even Ngoo and Dickinson were at least a handful for opposing defenders because of their sheer size.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned some nice inter-play with Moussa? Must have missed that. Someone said he worked hard? Jesus, what world do you live in? Don't you remember the shift's Leitao used to put in? The shifts Mooney used to put in? Remember how they would create chances just because they would chase and chase and chase and chase until defenders made mistakes - have you ever seen that from Makris? No. Will you ever see it? No.

Who ever is responsible for signing Makris (assuming it isn't a fiddle), should be fired.

It's sad to see because he's a young lad, but he's simply no where near the standard we require - those supporting him, or saying he'll come good next season are either deluded, or have been watching Walsall too long and are blinded by the pound signs. Still, even those will come to the realisation soon.

I think the club have already come to that realisation, and will let him go in the close season.


Is he not allowed to use those formations or? Is that form written off because he didn't use one of the "philthesaddler pre approved formations"?

One of which was an injury substitution and happened to score both our goals...

We're a poor side, despite being in the top half of the league for most of the season.

As for your usual insane ramblings on Makris I don't see the point of addressing them. "It's all his fault I tell you!"

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:58 am

philthesaddler wrote:Not sure why there is all of a sudden criticism of Whitney? He's never looked like being a decent manager. I gave him credit for improving our form during the middle 3 months of the season - but any sensible person has to temper that credit with common sense.

Yes, he achieved an improvement in form, but it has only been because we've played 5 defenders and 2 defensive midfielders, coupled with the widely accepted assertion that the league this season is extremely poor.

Yesterday was a case in point - this league is so poor that on paper, Southend and Walsall were only 2 positions apart at kickoff, but on the pitch, we were worlds apart - they had Robinson, Ranger and Cox as a forward line, we had Makris and Moussa, just let that sink in.

On to the game...

Southend had the better of the opening 20minutes, and as is usual, our defence got carved open from a cross, Ranger missed a very good chance.

We then scored 2 goals in quick succession, both against the run of play, both due to very good work by Edwards on the left wing, and both very neat finishes from Moussa.

Apart from that, we created nothing. I honestly don't remember another attempt on goal.

Second half, we were passive - no presence up front whatsoever, so much so that Southend subbed off their centre half and brought Demetriou on.

Their first goal was a bit harsh, the ref allowed the free kick to be taken quickly, before Etheridge was even looking - which despite people on twitter saying on Twitter that is perfectly fine, doesn't seem right to me - surely the ref needs to check the keeper is looking up?

After that we crumbled.

By 60 minutes, Dobson was blowing out of his arse, as were Moussa, as was Makris. All this talk of having a great physio, isn't it amazing how unfit we look?

Their second goal was another cross/corner which we failed to defend, and their third was an excellently taken freekick by Cox. The freekick looked a bit of a dive TBH, almost as if once Cox was on, they went looking for freekicks around the edge of the area, but the ref fell for this ruse.

After that, we were lucky not to concede another couple, with Etheridge pulling off a decent save.

So...the dissection.

We're a poor side, Whitney is a poor manager. He did absolutely nothing to counter Phil Brown yesterday, he just stood by passively allowing the game to slip out of our hands. From the post-match comments that I have seen from Whitney, he's blamed set piece defending, but the reason we're giving away set pieces in dangerous places is because we don't defend from the front! It's not rocket science, but obviously Jon can't grasp it.

All season we've been far too vulnerable to crosses, but you've got to look at the source of the problem - why are so many crosses coming in? Answer: Because we give teams far too much space on the periphery of our box, hence we either see a lot of crosses coming in, or we give away a lot of fouls as teams exploit this weakness.

Whitney tried to fix this problem by his mid season swap to 5-3-1-1 from 4-4-1-1, but this tries to fix the problem by putting an extra big bloke in the middle to head it away, but completely ignores solving the problem at source (ie stopping the crosses coming in).

He's signed so many unfit players it's crazy, and most of us were saying that at the start of the season. Moussa got rejected by Southend because he wasn't fit enough, surprise surprise, he had to be subbed off yesterday (after being subbed on after 15 mins!). Dobson was blowing out of his arse, Makris barely got near the ball all afternoon, and Preston appears to have put weight on. Our fitness is shocking.

I'm not going to change my tune on Whitney, I don't think he's fit to be our manager. He's not fit to clean Graydon's shoes, or Richard Money's , we as a club - a club relatively flush after some big sales - should be aiming higher than a glorified physio as manager.

Good to see Makris start yesterday, finally people will start seeing that he's not a professional footballer, he's more likely a window cleaner who's won a competition to be a pro footballer for a year.

He didn't win a single header or challenge yesterday, didn't have a single attempt on goal, didn't get in behind once, and looked nackered from about half an hour in. He's got no pace, no height, no strength, no movement, no guile, no skill - easily one of the worst forwards I've seen play for Walsall, even Ngoo and Dickinson were at least a handful for opposing defenders because of their sheer size.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned some nice inter-play with Moussa? Must have missed that. Someone said he worked hard? Jesus, what world do you live in? Don't you remember the shift's Leitao used to put in? The shifts Mooney used to put in? Remember how they would create chances just because they would chase and chase and chase and chase until defenders made mistakes - have you ever seen that from Makris? No. Will you ever see it? No.

Who ever is responsible for signing Makris (assuming it isn't a fiddle), should be fired.

It's sad to see because he's a young lad, but he's simply no where near the standard we require - those supporting him, or saying he'll come good next season are either deluded, or have been watching Walsall too long and are blinded by the pound signs. Still, even those will come to the realisation soon.

I think the club have already come to that realisation, and will let him go in the close season.


I'm the first to admit that Makris isn't a world-beater, but your assessment on his performance at Southend is quite unfair. Firstly, he did actually manage to win quite a few headers and battles against two centre-halfs in Ferdinand and Inniss who are well over 6ft 5. Secondly, his deft touch set the move for the first goal in motion and generally he looked lively in that first half. Second half I agree he was completely anonymous, although to be fair the same could be said for most of the team, but what did Bakayoko do when he came on? Nothing.

The issue is that we have three strikers who between them probably won't reach 20 goals for the season and only the exploits of the excellent Oztumer have pushed us into mid-table.

Unfortunately, as I mentioned in a different thread, I don't trust Whitney's coaching ability when it comes to improving our attacking players. Dare I say Smith/O'Kelly or even O'Driscoll might have got a lot more from Makris at this stage of the season...

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:04 pm

Tom_1992 wrote: or even O'Driscoll


Oh dear, go wash your mouth out with soap! That wound is still too raw to be mentioned!

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:13 pm

Tom_1992 wrote:I'm the first to admit that Makris isn't a world-beater, but your assessment on his performance at Southend is quite unfair. Firstly, he did actually manage to win quite a few headers and battles against two centre-halfs in Ferdinand and Inniss who are well over 6ft 5. Secondly, his deft touch set the move for the first goal in motion and generally he looked lively in that first half. Second half I agree he was completely anonymous, although to be fair the same could be said for most of the team, but what did Bakayoko do when he came on? Nothing.

The issue is that we have three strikers who between them probably won't reach 20 goals for the season and only the exploits of the excellent Oztumer have pushed us into mid-table.

Unfortunately, as I mentioned in a different thread, I don't trust Whitney's coaching ability when it comes to improving our attacking players. Dare I say Smith/O'Kelly or even O'Driscoll might have got a lot more from Makris at this stage of the season...


Believe me, he didn't win a single header - I watched very closely for the whole time he was on the pitch, he didn't win a single one.

He didn't win a single "battle" either. So much so, that around the 50 minute mark, they subbed off their one centre half, and brought on a right back (JD) and went to 3 at the back.

The deft touch you mention - if you watch the highlights, the defender thinks the ball is going out of play, and stops. Granted it's a very nice touch and 5 yard pass though, but nothing I couldn't manage.

My assessment is harsh, I'll give you that, I do it on purpose to counter the blindly optimistic support he receives from some in our support. Compare him to even some of the more mediocre strikers we've had down the years, and he doesn't compare favourably. You correctly mention that he was up against 2 towering centre halves, so you wouldn't expect him to win many headers...but nor does he have the movement or pace to make intelligent runs that would exploit slow, lumbering giants at the back.

Whatever money we've spent on him - whether it's a fiddle, or whether it's a highly performance based deal, it's been a complete disaster. To sign a striker, we expect a return. We aren't a club that can sign someone in the hope they give us a return 2 years later.

As I've highlighted on the main Makris thread, other strikers that we've signed who have returned similarly poor stats have been roundled criticised and booted out and replaced.

Finally - he wore gloves for f*cks sake. Gloves! In March! WTF?

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:43 pm

philthesaddler wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:I'm the first to admit that Makris isn't a world-beater, but your assessment on his performance at Southend is quite unfair. Firstly, he did actually manage to win quite a few headers and battles against two centre-halfs in Ferdinand and Inniss who are well over 6ft 5. Secondly, his deft touch set the move for the first goal in motion and generally he looked lively in that first half. Second half I agree he was completely anonymous, although to be fair the same could be said for most of the team, but what did Bakayoko do when he came on? Nothing.

The issue is that we have three strikers who between them probably won't reach 20 goals for the season and only the exploits of the excellent Oztumer have pushed us into mid-table.

Unfortunately, as I mentioned in a different thread, I don't trust Whitney's coaching ability when it comes to improving our attacking players. Dare I say Smith/O'Kelly or even O'Driscoll might have got a lot more from Makris at this stage of the season...


Believe me, he didn't win a single header - I watched very closely for the whole time he was on the pitch, he didn't win a single one.

He didn't win a single "battle" either. So much so, that around the 50 minute mark, they subbed off their one centre half, and brought on a right back (JD) and went to 3 at the back.

The deft touch you mention - if you watch the highlights, the defender thinks the ball is going out of play, and stops. Granted it's a very nice touch and 5 yard pass though, but nothing I couldn't manage.

My assessment is harsh, I'll give you that, I do it on purpose to counter the blindly optimistic support he receives from some in our support. Compare him to even some of the more mediocre strikers we've had down the years, and he doesn't compare favourably. You correctly mention that he was up against 2 towering centre halves, so you wouldn't expect him to win many headers...but nor does he have the movement or pace to make intelligent runs that would exploit slow, lumbering giants at the back.

Whatever money we've spent on him - whether it's a fiddle, or whether it's a highly performance based deal, it's been a complete disaster. To sign a striker, we expect a return. We aren't a club that can sign someone in the hope they give us a return 2 years later.

As I've highlighted on the main Makris thread, other strikers that we've signed who have returned similarly poor stats have been roundled criticised and booted out and replaced.

Finally - he wore gloves for f*cks sake. Gloves! In March! WTF?


I agree Phil, he's not great and probably won't ever cut it at this level but I have to pick you up on one thing. He DID win at least a couple of headers (more than Jackson did against Fleetwood), I think somebody in this thread or the Markis one mentioned that it's on the extended highlights cut.

As a side note, it's come to something when we're arguing over how many headers our strikers have won in a match. :lol:

One thing I've noticed from his performances, along with his other mediocre attributes, is that he doesn't really seem to have that natural goalscorers instinct. Bradshaw for example was always following in on shots, chasing back-pass and generally anticipating the unexpected, something which all goalscorers do well. Makris seemingly doesn't have that natual hunger for goals, and as mentioned previously I don't have any faith in Whitney being able to coach that into him.

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:01 pm

philthesaddler wrote:
Tom_1992 wrote:I'm the first to admit that Makris isn't a world-beater, but your assessment on his performance at Southend is quite unfair. Firstly, he did actually manage to win quite a few headers and battles against two centre-halfs in Ferdinand and Inniss who are well over 6ft 5. Secondly, his deft touch set the move for the first goal in motion and generally he looked lively in that first half. Second half I agree he was completely anonymous, although to be fair the same could be said for most of the team, but what did Bakayoko do when he came on? Nothing.

The issue is that we have three strikers who between them probably won't reach 20 goals for the season and only the exploits of the excellent Oztumer have pushed us into mid-table.

Unfortunately, as I mentioned in a different thread, I don't trust Whitney's coaching ability when it comes to improving our attacking players. Dare I say Smith/O'Kelly or even O'Driscoll might have got a lot more from Makris at this stage of the season...


Believe me, he didn't win a single header - I watched very closely for the whole time he was on the pitch, he didn't win a single one.

He didn't win a single "battle" either. So much so, that around the 50 minute mark, they subbed off their one centre half, and brought on a right back (JD) and went to 3 at the back.

The deft touch you mention - if you watch the highlights, the defender thinks the ball is going out of play, and stops. Granted it's a very nice touch and 5 yard pass though, but nothing I couldn't manage.

My assessment is harsh, I'll give you that, I do it on purpose to counter the blindly optimistic support he receives from some in our support. Compare him to even some of the more mediocre strikers we've had down the years, and he doesn't compare favourably. You correctly mention that he was up against 2 towering centre halves, so you wouldn't expect him to win many headers...but nor does he have the movement or pace to make intelligent runs that would exploit slow, lumbering giants at the back.

Whatever money we've spent on him - whether it's a fiddle, or whether it's a highly performance based deal, it's been a complete disaster. To sign a striker, we expect a return. We aren't a club that can sign someone in the hope they give us a return 2 years later.

As I've highlighted on the main Makris thread, other strikers that we've signed who have returned similarly poor stats have been roundled criticised and booted out and replaced.

Finally - he wore gloves for f*cks sake. Gloves! In March! WTF?


I wasn't at the game but I guess JD was brought on because they were 2-0 down and chasing the game. JD offers an attacking threat. If you ever saw Jason play last season you would know that. If you think Phil Brown thought that Makris was so poor that he didn't require marking, then you are stretching your point somewhat.

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:22 pm

philthesaddler wrote:
Believe me, he didn't win a single header - I watched very closely for the whole time he was on the pitch, he didn't win a single one.



Crikey, you must have better eyes than the cameras at the ground do then. I watched the extended highlights on Saddlers Player earlier and he won 2 headers in that alone.

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:25 pm

DonningtonSaddler wrote:
I wasn't at the game but I guess JD was brought on because they were 2-0 down and chasing the game. JD offers an attacking threat. If you ever saw Jason play last season you would know that. If you think Phil Brown thought that Makris was so poor that he didn't require marking, then you are stretching your point somewhat.


At 2-0 down at home chasing a play off spot I'd bring my goal keeper off to give a more attacking threat! :lol:

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:52 pm

Shock horror, Philtherarelywrongsaddler has been called out on three separate issues on one thread :lol:

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:23 pm

saddla wrote:It's very easy to support your team when they're winning 2-0.
It's much more difficult to support your team when the opposition has brought the score back to 2-2.
Chanting "2-0 and we f****d it up" does your team no good at all and destroys the confidence even more. This is when the team need you to support them more than ever because it can and does make a difference when the fans are behind you.


Blimey Saddla, I bet your a hoot at funerals with your party hat and party poppers! Your so inspirational you make 'Optimistic' look dour! :mrgreen:

Surely the fans that had paid a lot of good money, and used up virtually a weekend to get down to Sarfend, are entitled to express their opinions when a two goal lead is capitulated into a 3-2 defeat. Or are we all supposed to react joyfully, when the performance on the field merits very little but disgust. I remember similar 'chants'..... "we've had a shot, we've had a shot" at non performances earlier in the season. It's just a reaction to the poor attitude, and remember, to a small extent, we pay their wages!

Next time we see someone jumping for joy when are being well beaten again, we know that will be you!! :wink:

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:29 pm

Ancient Moaner wrote:
saddla wrote:It's very easy to support your team when they're winning 2-0.
It's much more difficult to support your team when the opposition has brought the score back to 2-2.
Chanting "2-0 and we f****d it up" does your team no good at all and destroys the confidence even more. This is when the team need you to support them more than ever because it can and does make a difference when the fans are behind you.


Blimey Saddla, I bet your a hoot at funerals with your party hat and party poppers! Your so inspirational you make 'Optimistic' look dour! :mrgreen:

Surely the fans that had paid a lot of good money, and used up virtually a weekend to get down to Sarfend, are entitled to express their opinions when a two goal lead is capitulated into a 3-2 defeat. Or are we all supposed to react joyfully, when the performance on the field merits very little but disgust. I remember similar 'chants'..... "we've had a shot, we've had a shot" at non performances earlier in the season. It's just a reaction to the poor attitude, and remember, to a small extent, we pay their wages!

Next time we see someone jumping for joy when are being well beaten again, we know that will be you!! :wink:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:40 pm

My assessment of Makris performance is much closer to Tom_1992 than Philthesaddler.

Phil if you could bring the ball down like Makris did for our first goal you must be a good player, what level do you play at?

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Re: Southend United (A) 18th Mar, 3pm

Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:50 pm

chriss5471 wrote:
philthesaddler wrote:
Believe me, he didn't win a single header - I watched very closely for the whole time he was on the pitch, he didn't win a single one.



Crikey, you must have better eyes than the cameras at the ground do then. I watched the extended highlights on Saddlers Player earlier and he won 2 headers in that alone.


Really? Cos I watched them too, and there wasn't a single header won.

Either you're blind, or you're telling porkies.

How about you tell me which minutes/seconds of the video these headers occur in? I'll then post clips later, if I have time.

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