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Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Reports and reaction from the 2016-17 season as Walsall finished 14th in League 1
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chunkster
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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:37 pm

Ancient Moaner wrote:
Jolly Johnny wrote:
m&m wrote:Nobody knows what they are supposed to do.Then again what do you really expect from a physio?

Unless we bring in either a manager who can organise this lot or at least a proven coach then I'm afraid we have relegation written all over us this season.
More worryingly if Jeff Bonser, Stef Gamble and others at the helm cannot see this at this point we are fecked.


This is partly what I don't get. Yes, Whitney is essentially a physio wearing manager's shoes but he has a whole host of more experienced people around him that could / should be giving him guidance - Neil Woods, John Ward, Neil Cutler, Dean Holden (experienced ex-pros).

What is the point in having them around if they don't step in when it needs it from time to time? Obviously within slightly different ways.


Exactly, what is the point of all theses hangers-on if they provide diddly squat to the party?
If a new manager IS brought in (eventually when it is probably already too late anyway) I believe a new man would get rid of all but Cutler. Some thing HAS to be done, quickly, before it IS too late to make any difference to the inevitable relegation battle we now find ourselves in.
As much as i like holden as a person, i think he has taken the team backwards :|

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:40 pm

Men against boys. I was riding on a wave of "it'll be alright it's just a hangover from last season". But that's all gone today. Imagine if this wasn't Whitney, the boos would be twice as loud.

Can't decide if the team are any good or not. Sick-note Mantom is probably pissing himself.

Touch and go on relegation at this rate...

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:40 pm

Jolly Johnny wrote:
m&m wrote:Nobody knows what they are supposed to do.Then again what do you really expect from a physio?

Unless we bring in either a manager who can organise this lot or at least a proven coach then I'm afraid we have relegation written all over us this season.
More worryingly if Jeff Bonser, Stef Gamble and others at the helm cannot see this at this point we are fecked.


This is partly what I don't get. Yes, Whitney is essentially a physio wearing manager's shoes but he has a whole host of more experienced people around him that could / should be giving him guidance - Neil Woods, John Ward, Neil Cutler, Dean Holden (experienced ex-pros).

What is the point in having them around if they don't step in when it needs it from time to time? Obviously within slightly different ways.



Whitney is a experienced ex pro himself. Has similar experience he needs a proven tactical mind next too him. All the hype over his motivational speeches though possibly misguided hasthere been a game this season we have come out after half time a different team?

That being said what is he offering?

Don't get me wrong I like him and want him to stay but maybe unlikely as the capacity he's best suited would he go back to here now

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:10 pm

That was Mersonesque. We're a shambles.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:16 pm

Glad I got some overtime in and missed that shower of shite

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:20 pm

On the downside

Ozthumer is clearly getting frustrated with the manager about being asked to play deep and is likely asking his agent to get a move in January and as he is catching the eye I can see teams coming in for him

Kinsella is not a league one player

We have spent 300k which is a ridiculous amount for us on a player who the manager clearly does not rate as he cannot get a starting place at home after just 9 league games

After their 3rd goal as the teams prepared to kick off curvelier was seen sharing a joke with mantom on the half way line - glad he thought it was all funny and by the way mantom you robbed a place of Cain at Wembley

On the upside

Hopefully laird will be back in on Saturday

This is a bogey fixture out if the way and probably most teams won't pick up points against a useful Scunthorpe side

Moussa and bakayoko looked lively

Ozthumer is always worth the entrance fee and gets us of our seats

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:25 pm

chunkster wrote:
Ancient Moaner wrote:
Jolly Johnny wrote:
m&m wrote:Nobody knows what they are supposed to do.Then again what do you really expect from a physio?

Unless we bring in either a manager who can organise this lot or at least a proven coach then I'm afraid we have relegation written all over us this season.
More worryingly if Jeff Bonser, Stef Gamble and others at the helm cannot see this at this point we are fecked.


This is partly what I don't get. Yes, Whitney is essentially a physio wearing manager's shoes but he has a whole host of more experienced people around him that could / should be giving him guidance - Neil Woods, John Ward, Neil Cutler, Dean Holden (experienced ex-pros).

What is the point in having them around if they don't step in when it needs it from time to time? Obviously within slightly different ways.


Exactly, what is the point of all theses hangers-on if they provide diddly squat to the party?
If a new manager IS brought in (eventually when it is probably already too late anyway) I believe a new man would get rid of all but Cutler. Some thing HAS to be done, quickly, before it IS too late to make any difference to the inevitable relegation battle we now find ourselves in.
As much as i like holden as a person, i think he has taken the team backwards :|


I did say at the time just have a look at Holden's record when he was caretaker for Oldham for 15 games or so...it was proper O'Dismal stuff.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:29 pm

If you decimate a team that finished 3rd in the league only missing out on automatic promotion by 1 point and offering those players derisory contracts you get what you deserve by small mindedness and penny pinching.
Some fans said that last seasons team "failed".

Any opinions on how the new lot are doing from these posters? It's not point scoring just bloody obvious.
As a 10 game benchmark I'd say we are in serious trouble.

Can anybody really believe that Vale away was only 4 months ago?

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:33 pm

m&m wrote:If you decimate a team that finished 3rd in the league only missing out on automatic promotion by 1 point and offering those players derisory contracts you get what you deserve by small mindedness and penny pinching.
Some fans said that last seasons team "failed".

Any opinions on how the new lot are doing from these posters? It's not point scoring just bloody obvious.
As a 10 game benchmark I'd say we are in serious trouble.

Can anybody really believe that Vale away was only 4 months ago?


Nope probably made worse by the fact Vale are flying atm. :lol: Honestly thought they'd be rock bottom this season considering the players they lost but obviously recruited pretty well.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:58 pm

Whitney out for me. He is lost and out of his depth.

Send Toner back to the Villa, I would rather us continue to struggle but give Preston experience.

Cuvelier is not a wide left player! Hitting long balls to Jackson won't work! Chambers is getting swamped in midfield and is chasing shadows! We have no leaders on the pitch despite what our manager told us he recruited. His HT team talks must be confusing as our record in the 2nd half of games is dreadful.

His interview was just the same words regurgitated. A Villa fan on WM said it was refreshing to hear and that is what they need at Villa Park. Well I will deliver him myself.

McCarthy should get MOM today for taking one for the team and playing left back.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:01 am

ToeJoe Jnr wrote:Whitney out for me. He is lost and out of his depth.

Send Toner back to the Villa, I would rather us continue to struggle but give Preston experience.

Cuvelier is not a wide left player! Hitting long balls to Jackson won't work! Chambers is getting swamped in midfield and is chasing shadows! We have no leaders on the pitch despite what our manager told us he recruited. His HT team talks must be confusing as our record in the 2nd half of games is dreadful.

His interview was just the same words regurgitated.


I agree. Whitney's interview again told us that he has no idea at all about what is wrong with the team. He thinks that we lost because the players did not fight and lacked passion. That is nonsense. We lost because we have an unbalanced squad and because he sent out a team unable to play the tactics he chose.

I have seen worse Walsall teams in the fifty-five years I have been attending matches, but I have never seen a Walsall team with a worse defence. Toner was abysmal - I never thought I would miss Paul Downing, but he is far superior as a central defender to the three players who have been tried in his place: McCarthy, Preston and Toner. O'Connor is OK as a sidekick, but cannot run the defence on his own.

Simeon Jackson is a good player, but he is not and never will be suitable to play as a lone striker. He is too small, and cannot hold the ball up. Why does Whitney not see this? Is he blind?

We have a hole in the middle of our defence, and a hole in the middle of our attack. We have no specialist wingers good enough to play at this level - but we have enough decent central midfielders to fill two teams.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:56 am

Bad recruitment, tactics

Nothing has changed my preseason prediction

Cut adrift by Xmas

Need a change now to give any hope of avoiding relegation

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:03 am

Had we not installed O'Dismal we would now be playing in the Championship. Indeed we very nearly made it despite him.

Small margins. :|

But that's football. Brutal. It sounds like we are misfiring / playing badly at the moment, but Scunthorpe finished last season like a train and just missed out on the playoffs themselves.

Fight to the death though, as ever. Just need to pick up points as and when they come.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:28 am

GET RID

Out of his depth, chopping and changing to keep everybody happy. Playing people out of position

He's lost me.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:34 am

Exile wrote:Depressing.


You ought to have been there; you'd have had the Samaritans on speed dial after 20 minutes! :lol:

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:35 am

IHTC. wrote:
bleed_red_n_white wrote:Walked out early again, had enough of this sh!t get Whitney out now we are an embarrassment


Me too I went after 65 mins, it was plainly obvious there was no way back.


Thanks for coming.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:58 am

Desperately difficult not to be over critical of that performance, as there was almost nothing to offer any hope for our prospects this season.

Starting with the positives (this is going to be a short list!):

Fine goal from Oztumer
Sporadic efforts of urgency from Oztumer
Tireless, unselfish running from Jackson
More minutes on the pitch for Cuvelier
More minutes on the pitch for Osbourne
More minutes on the pitch for Makris
More minutes on the pitch for Kinsella
More minutes on the pitch for Moussa
More minutes on the pitch for Bakayoko

Don't know whether you spotted that I padded that list out a bit?

Now for the negatives (this probably won't be as long as it should be!):

Inability of a number of our players to keep the ball on the pitch. Incredible for professionals.
Feeble and pathetic performances in central defence. I don't think that either of our centre halves won an uncontested header all night.
Toner looked especially poor with his positional sense a serious concern.
O'Connor looked indecisive and his control was virtually non-existent.
Yes the full backs were makeshift, but that didn't affect the areas of play that I am criticising the centre halves for.
Full backs weren't the problem last night, although they didn't contribute anything.
Osbourne offered nothing.
Chambers did little.
Oztumer didn't apply himself as well as he might have done by failing to make the appropriate "simple" pass on occasions which would have set up an attack far more effectively rather than looking for a far more difficult target.
Morris just couldn't get the ball under control early on and his shooting is becoming less and less effective.
Cuvelier offered nothing and unforgivably got caught in possession leading to their second goal.
We no longer appear to have a particular pattern of play.
Almost constant long balls, not very well directed at that, up to Jackson who works hard enough but without much effect.
When in possession, each of the players were isolated and almost inevitably a "move" broke down before it had started.
We presented Scunthorpe with their goals with a mixture of either poor positioning, seeming lack of urgency to get first to loose balls and lack of marking.
Completely incoherent use of substitutes, at least in terms of positioning, as I think each of the substitutes possibly played in a couple of different positions while they were on, although I can't be sure. We were all over the shop with Bakayoko playing right wing, left wing and possibly up front a bit. Moussa left wing, then centre midfield and Makris somewhere but I can't recall where.

What is disappointing is that Scunthorpe didn't have to work particularly hard for their win. We simply handed the game to them and they didn't look much more than an average side. Our capitulation without undue pressure from Scunthorpe was pathetic.

Didn't get a clear view of the Kinsella handball.

No desire shown by any defender to get to the loose ball first for the second goal.

Not sure why Osbourne gave that suicidal short pass for the third goal.

I was closer to their player than our defence for the fourth goal.

I would not look out of place in our defence, even at my age, with my lack of fitness and with my ailments, such was the "ability" demonstrated last night.

These are professional footballers. This is what they do!!!!!

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:03 am

I feel sorry for Whitney. He loses Edwards for a few weeks then can't play Laird for contractual reasons and so has to reshuffle his back four again.

I could sit here and spen the rest of the day commenting on this game but I won't because I've just discovered that we are nearly out of tea bags and some barsteward has scoffed al the lemon puffs so I'll keep it simple:

When we have the ball we can't keep it and when we haven't got it we can't get it.

The two players most likely to have won Palyer of the Season last year were arguably the two worst out there last night. Neither of them looked like they could organise/motivate a fat barsteward in a pie eating contest. In the first half O'Connor had a go at Etheridge for not warning him about a player coming straight at him when all he had to do was look up. That's why you have eyes in the front of your head you dozy prick and not in the back. Chambers only appeared to open his mouth to draw in oxygen. Your the Captain for fudge's sake, show some leadership!

What Kinsella was thinking when, just after he had won the ball on our touchline and drew a round of applause, he decided to try and punch the ball clear is anybody's guess. Apart from that, and compared to everyone else, I didn't think he did too bad.

For those of you who have been involved in Junior Football, you will be familiar with the common cry of "one of ya!" When two or more kids go for the same ball. You should have been able to hear it all over the pitch yesterday it was so disorganised.

Whitney has problems. I think this is plain as day but once they are on the pitch the players have a responsibility too and apart from Little Ozzie, who shone like a diamond in a pile of shite, they have to take responsibility for most of that 'performance' last night.

You could argue that if Jackson's effort at the end of the second half had gone in that things might have worked out different, but it didn't and, as Saigon mentioned games change and are won and lost on small margins.

Considering Little Ozzie was the star of our team in the first half and pretty much ran the show for us during that period I struggle to work out why he wasn't given more of the ball in the second half. The goal that was disallowed for us at the end of the second half cam from a superb pass from him.

I'm not sure what Whitney can do at the moment to get the feel good factor back, but I know what I can so off I'm setting off now for some tea bags and a packet of Lemon Puff biscuits which I intend to munch through all by myself.

Right then, now for Millwall.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:11 am

Sound_out wrote:Utter gash, Whitney out before it's too late!

If I was you I'd sticks to commenting on the Villa site regarding footballing matters or concentrate on flogging car parts on eBay if you want to save up for another IKEA wardrobe.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:14 am

Defensively its a mess. We need to organise from the back again and start again. Tighten up and work on the basics to become an organised and hard to break down team for the time being until its routine for the players, then build from there if the management team can.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:21 am

Bye Whitney.

That was abysmal.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:31 am

JW should be given at least 15-20 games to get it right,he lost a whole team after all.The thing I find difficult to understand though is that in his post match interviews he never blames his team selection or his tactics,its always that the players don't understand how he wants them to play,or they are in the wrong frame of mind,or they don't want it as much as he does.These after all are the players he hand picked for their intelligence,ability to think for themselves,and man manage and adapt amongst themselves as the game progresses.And yet he seems to want control every game down to the smallest detail.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:36 am

I didn't post last night as I wanted to calm down before putting my hand to the keys! Its a pity JW didn't do the same before commenting on WM....his interview full of passion was full of criticism of his players most of which was justified but should not have been said on radio!
As to the match this was the third season in a row Scunthorpe have won 4-1 at Walsall and it was well merited. They attacked from the start putting our "rookie" defence under immense pressure and although both their first goals came from defensive errors their lead was well earned. They also closed us down well which mean't that we could play through midfield meaning we had to play long searching balls for Jackson who was generally outnumbered and well marked.
We had a glimmer of hope with the goal just before half time but gave away a third shortly after the interval thanks to some terrible defending.
I still think we have some good players who will do better but it painfully clear we are short of a quality centre half which cannot be remedied until January unless we can find an experienced free agent. I posted before that McCarthy was primarily a RB yet he was signed as a CH....a big mistake!!
In the meantime we have to defend as a team which we were very good at during Dean's time ,pass the ball better and find the right combination up front ...over to you JW and coaches.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:38 am

I have just read the post from DERBYSADDLER....agree entirely with that.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:35 am

philthesaddler May 20th 2016 wrote:No, no, no to Whitney as manager.

It'd be like Merson all over again. The lack of organisation last night was an absolute disgrace, no one had any idea what they were supposed to be doing.

We stood very little chance of getting anything out of the game at all, never mind going through, last night, so to shake up the team so radically and remove any organisation was just asking for trouble. We ended up getting beaten 3-1, and I think it's fair to say Barnsley didn't break in to a sweat, we made them look like a class act through our disorganisation.

We might still have the basis of a very good team next year - the likes of JD, Neil, JOC, AC and possibly TB, with potential cash to spend from RH and a good set of attendances this season, let's not ruin that by giving it to a manager with no track record who has made some very poor decisions.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:14 pm

Garbage utter garbage.

Wrong team selection wrong tactics wrong result it should have been 6 or 7 to Scunthorpe and we could not of complained.

After a slight glimmer of hope in last couple of games back to normal,this game shows Whitney has learned nothing from start of season,if he is to stay and I admit I was all for him getting job he needs help quick,as stated in an earlier post keep Cultler get rid of other back room staff.

At least we will achieve what we failed to do last season get out of league 1 just at wrong end.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:31 pm

philthesaddler wrote:
philthesaddler May 20th 2016 wrote:No, no, no to Whitney as manager.

It'd be like Merson all over again. The lack of organisation last night was an absolute disgrace, no one had any idea what they were supposed to be doing.

We stood very little chance of getting anything out of the game at all, never mind going through, last night, so to shake up the team so radically and remove any organisation was just asking for trouble. We ended up getting beaten 3-1, and I think it's fair to say Barnsley didn't break in to a sweat, we made them look like a class act through our disorganisation.

We might still have the basis of a very good team next year - the likes of JD, Neil, JOC, AC and possibly TB, with potential cash to spend from RH and a good set of attendances this season, let's not ruin that by giving it to a manager with no track record who has made some very poor decisions.


Do not always agree with you but I must admit you got this almost 100% spot on

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:51 pm

philthesaddler wrote:
philthesaddler May 20th 2016 wrote:No, no, no to Whitney as manager.

It'd be like Merson all over again. The lack of organisation last night was an absolute disgrace, no one had any idea what they were supposed to be doing.

We stood very little chance of getting anything out of the game at all, never mind going through, last night, so to shake up the team so radically and remove any organisation was just asking for trouble. We ended up getting beaten 3-1, and I think it's fair to say Barnsley didn't break in to a sweat, we made them look like a class act through our disorganisation.

We might still have the basis of a very good team next year - the likes of JD, Neil, JOC, AC and possibly TB, with potential cash to spend from RH and a good set of attendances this season, let's not ruin that by giving it to a manager with no track record who has made some very poor decisions.


Philthesaddler wrote:
TheSwift wrote: wrote:Also would like to add the fact Smith neglected to use Morris at all yet he and Hiwula were basically the reason we finished last season so strongly with more goals. He would be one of the first on my team sheet!



And this is why Smith gets so much stick.

Morris was a revelation last season when he came back from Wrexham.

He must have had a terrible pre-season to have been totally bombed out...or more likely, like I've already said, Smith can't fit wingers in to this new formation...rendering the likes of Forde, Baxendale, Morris, Cook totally useless as squad players. Smith's an idiot, and this is why I no longer want him leading the club, he clearly doesn't have the brains to take the club forward, which means eventually, he'll take us backwards. Ironically, this switch of formation maybe the final nails in his coffin.

Smith just baffles me, clearly has no idea how to get the best out of the players he has, nor does he know how to build a balanced squad


Taken from the first home tie of last season against Oldham.

Not that sharp are you Phil?

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:08 pm

Leatherman wrote:
Sound_out wrote:Utter gash, Whitney out before it's too late!

If I was you I'd sticks to commenting on the Villa site regarding footballing matters or concentrate on flogging car parts on eBay if you want to save up for another IKEA wardrobe.
He was but got confused with whitney and de matteo :lol:

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Re: Scunthorpe United (H) League One, Tue 27 Sep, 7.45pm

Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:11 pm

reedswood sadler wrote:Garbage utter garbage.

Wrong team selection wrong tactics wrong result it should have been 6 or 7 to Scunthorpe and we could not of complained.

After a slight glimmer of hope in last couple of games back to normal,this game shows Whitney has learned nothing from start of season,if he is to stay and I admit I was all for him getting job he needs help quick,as stated in an earlier post keep Cultler get rid of other back room staff.

At least we will achieve what we failed to do last season get out of league 1 just at wrong end.
not complained if it had been 6-7 :shock: i would have been over the fudgin wall with a stun gun :lol:

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