Bury (H) League One, 27th August 3pm

[Ancient Moaner]

What a season to pick to decide to be a cheerleader for a promotion challenge! :oops:
I'll just have to take over the mantle of continually saying "keep the faith" etc as we drop into the relegation zone?
Lots of folk were a tad sceptical at my Chesterfield report about the same team coming out second half and playing utter crud! Suddenly it all sounds familiar. And this team is a different set of players! As I have said above, Something aye right.
Is Whitney over training them, or perhaps telling them that they are world beaters and only have to come on to the pitch in the 2nd half to win the game?
We are one point off the zone, top 8 are 8/10 points clear now, our season could be considered over, unless we can do a 'Barnsley'
How can a squad which promised such outstanding talent become laughing stock of frailty as a team?
Lots of questions, Whitney has to find the answers PDQ! :( :( :evil:

[JonnyOwen]

https://audioboom.com/boos/4981494-whitney-after-walsall-surrender-3-goal-lead-i-m-not-going-to-stand-here-and-make-excuses

[JonnyOwen]

Absolutely atrocious second half. Entire back 4 disappeared with Chambers and Dobson chasing shadows. Bury's best player Mayor went from not touching the ball first half to getting 10-15 yard runs on our full backs, what an absolutely cataclysmic result.

Whitney needs to take a long hard look at himself, the squad he has built, the decisions he is making and the environment at the club all together.

Still haven't missed a game for about 2 seasons now but over the next couple months I will miss most of them, might be a blessing in disguise based off what that performance did to me :lol: :cry:

[chunkster]

Didn't go today cus I'm in landan having a long weekend by the Thames. Saw the result half time and thought its in the bag. Get out of the Houses of Parliament ant it's all gone tits up :!: .even Jeremy corbyn couldn't have cocked that up :lol: . What a joke. I think I can get em a spot at the comedy club tomorrow if they can get down here :lol:

[Pheasey_Saddler]

Just back from the game.

I'm actually relieved we escaped with a point in the end, but feels like a defeat. I thought 3-0 really flattered us at h/t and could see them scoring all half. 2nd half was men against boys in their favour, we completely fell apart. Osbourne going off just before h/t was a major turning point IMO as we lacked any sort of bite after that. When they scored the equaliser with over 20 mins left I was convinced they would go on and win it. I would actually be slightly disappointed if I was a Bury fan that their team didn't go on and do so - we were there for the taking.

Really missed an experienced head at the back today - O'Connor was a big miss.

I suggest this 2 week break should be used as team building time, as we certainly haven't gelled as a team yet. We do have good individuals but when we lose 1 or 2 key players the inexperience shines through like a beacon.

[saddlertd]

Just heard Whitney's radio rant, blaming players for not putting their bodies on the line - well he's signed them. He's the one who's signed a bunch of mamby-pambies who can't defend, nobody else. Where's the dominant, no-messing centre-half we've being crying out for since Andy Butler left? That ain't McCarthy! Where's the Andy Rammell-type centre-forward who will win the ball in the air at both ends of the pitch: we might even score from a corner if we had one of those (Tom Pope anyone?). No, sorry, John, the fault lies well-and-truly with you. It's your team, sort it! BTW - I'm well peed off if you hadn't realised.

[The Bosted Slab]

There is absolutely no continuity or consistency in team selection and team performance.
Until we attain both, we aren't going to know what our true destiny is this season.
It has to be a concern that seemingly a minimum of three changes are made from match to match, be they enforced or otherwise.
Unless the newly added "steel" to the squad lies in those players that are on the "merry go round" of injury/selection/injury/selection/injury, or elsewhere in players that aren't played out of position, then I don't really know where it is. In fact I would have to say that the new "steel" is quite probably a myth. We continue to look very vulnerable, particularly in defence, and appear to have an extremely soft underbelly.
The positives of today are that we scored three goals, created and/or were gifted at least two other gilt edged opportunities (that positive undermined by our failure to take those chances) and a promising cameo appearance at the end by Kouhyar.
Although I was at the match, I didn't realise at the time that Makris apparently assisted in two of the goals. For that I give him credit, but his overall general play remains a real concern to me.
Whether Edwards playing at left back is a cause of our malaise I don't know, but I don't think now that it could be considered to be working and as such we might as well try Cockerill-Mollett there, as he at least would be in his natural position and may even get forward a little. Yes it might be a risk, but we appear to be taking risks in a number of positions.
Not enjoying the football this season, but let's hope for stability and improvement, hopefully the sooner the better.

[bleed_red_n_white]

I just find it hialrious that I get struck down for suggesting half the stuff people are saying now, we are relegation fodder

Whitney Out !!!

[Sound_out]

Sources tell me that the second half performance was one of the worst they've witnessed. I hope Bonser and the board make a swift decision if this continues over the next few games. If not, we can forget anything but a relegation battle!

[Optimistic]

I don't know what all the panic is about, Bury looked a decent side and a lot of people were expecting us to lose before the game. The main concern was where are the goals coming from this season and in the first half I think we had that one answered. In fact Jackson should have at least scored the one on one with the keeper and could have easily made it 5-0.

We are 5 games in with a new manager and a new squad and we have Won 1 Drawn 2 and Lost 2. That's not the disaster some people are claiming and if we can have a run without so many injuries we can start to gel. Toner looked very useful and joins a bunch of very good individual players. It's only 5 games in and a lot of people stated at the beginning of the season it would probably take 10 to 15 games at least.

They will all learn from these setbacks but at least we have a squad of decent players to work with and a manager who tells it as it is.

I am still Optimistic

[JonnyOwen]

I don't know what all the panic is about,

...

:shock:

We surrendered a 3 nil lead within 20 minutes, if that isn't cause for panic I am not sure what is :lol:

[coop63]

Took my Grandson for his first ever game today and at half time I thought 'he's a guaranteed stayer' at 3-0 but at full time he had more questions than I felt able to answer!!!

I think that tbh as soon as Osbourne went off we looked to lose all cohesion..

When a six year old says that 'the players are different' in the second half it makes you realise that at the minute we are far from a team but look more a collection of new employees finding their way around the workplace and that's what worries me.. What are they doing mid-week to prep for games??

It's unforgivable to lose a 3-0 lead at home especially against a relatively poor side who we actually made look threatening every time they got the ball in the second half. We were comical in midfield and defence and we could have easily lost that game!

I like Whitney and his positive style and I fully appreciate he's learning his trade at management level but he is rapidly being exposed as being far too prone to tactical error and he doesn't have the experience around him to deal with it.. what on earth they discussed in the changing room at HT we'll never know but it looked like it was a pat on the back and a well done lads - let's keep it tight type in the second half type dialogue!!

Conversely, Bury had a major rollicking and it showed from the restart..

I don't want to overreact but that was very poor from all involved toady and serious consideration needs given to the support network around JW

UTS

[PINNACLE]

Don't really know what to say or what the possible answer is, 3-0 up even at half time should be game over.
My Team & My manager are naive and i cant really see things improving................
but they are are My Team & My manager and as much as i am shell shocked and disheartened i will be there for the next game.
C'mon Whitney sort it out mate.

[Walsallone]

Three excellent goals in the first half -two as a result of good flowing football,the other a great shot by Oztumer and we looked well in control however the injury to Osbourne made a big difference and the inexperience of our team was cruelly exposed.
I think some of you have overreacted to the result however I do agree the number of injury prone players we have is a big worry. Secondly all the young lads on loan from the Premier league need time to adjust to the hurly burly of our league.I think how we finish this season depends on how they develop as men. Their characters are going to be tested as is our patience. We must stick together and give the team maximum support. A guy came on WM and slated Kouyhar!!THe young man who had to come when Oztumer's legs had gone and did Ok.
Incidentally was O'Conner injured? Rumours abound he has had a fall out with the Manager over his mistake last week. If this is so that is much more worrying than the result because in my view because if he had been on the pitch I doubt we would have conceded 3 goals.
One final point if Henry is not going to be fit by the next league game we need a left back in before the deadline.

[Cowshed]

Not much difference in the two sets of players but their manager had the ability to change tactics 2nd half and pressure our weakness in the fullbacks. Edwards committed a stupid foul which put him on yellow and weakened us further as he had to play with caution on his weaker side. We left kinsella to jump with Pope.

But we know Whitney is inexperienced so can't moan

if we believe he has something about him we have to let him get experience and learn from these situations. If there are no signs of learning then we can worry. Hopefully he will have learned kinsella is not good enough yet and Edwards needs to be in his strongest position.

Thought our centre backs did well even in the second half they seemed to win their ball but it was the 2nd ball that we were slow on

Otzhumer is a real positive though and Jackson looked lively is that 3 goals in 6 which is a bradshawesque return.

I'm finding it interesting anyway and I am desperate for Whitney to do well

[NortonSaddler]

We should of been 5 up at half time had jackson put away his two one on ones. That would of put us in a position to get away with the calamity that was the second half (thats the 3rd consecutive game that we've collapsed in the second half). Im fairly unsure on jackson. He seems like a hit and miss player, similar to westcarr, in that he'll have plenty of chances throughout the season but lack any clinical nature to bag a load. He missed last week against charlton which of changed the game and he had two chances to put the game beyond any doubt today.

Dont get me wrong though, 3-0 up should of been enough for a comfortable second half regardless of the missed chances. Lack of tactical nous all over the pitch. After conceding the first, we gave the ball away from kick off within 30 seconds rather than keep the ball and calm things down. Too much naivety and sloppiness all over the pitch but you cant really blame them. Theyre young and still learning each orhers names. Whitneys fault for building a team around "up and comers" rather than "been there, done that players", especially in the spine of the team. We had two young loaned center backs that have never played with each other up against vaughan and pope: the results a no brainer.

Bad subs and no change of tactic when we up against it confirmed they would complete the comeback and they should of gone on to win.

Injury to osbourne didnt help matters.
Whitney still has time to fix it but id say the clock's been set already. He has a lot to answer for based on the second half.

A win against grimsby and a clean sheet will do the world of good but i cant see it, especially when osbourne wont be fit.

[funk_hits_the_fan]

Don't really know what to say or what the possible answer is, 3-0 up even at half time should be game over.
My Team & My manager are naive and i cant really see things improving................
but they are are My Team & My manager and as much as i am shell shocked and disheartened i will be there for the next game.
C'mon Whitney sort it out mate.

Bloody hell cant believe I'm about to type this :wink:

Top post PINNACLE, wholeheartedly agree

[reedswood sadler]

Lucky lucky Walsall to get a point out of this game.

First half a comfortable 3-0 lead could even have been 5-0 if Jackson had taken chances but we never looked in control with Bury threatening down right wing.Ismail had beating of Edwards all game not his fault we need an experienced left back not a player out of position,not good fot team or players confidence.

Halftime team talk what is it, every game we come out and for first 15 mins we are asleep allowing teams to get back in game,Bury certainly did this.

Second half a shambles like watching a team of schoolboys playing a team of men.How can losing one man(Osborne)make so much difference and why are so many players crocked so early in season a very inexperienced bench today.

I think today showed how poor Whitney is in tactics decision making and poor use of subs.
Still early days plenty of time to gel but I have seen nothing yet that says we will not be having a fight to stay out of relegation zone.

[PT]

Don't really know what to say or what the possible answer is, 3-0 up even at half time should be game over.
My Team & My manager are naive and i cant really see things improving................
but they are are My Team & My manager and as much as i am shell shocked and disheartened i will be there for the next game.
C'mon Whitney sort it out mate.

Bloody hell cant believe I'm about to type this :wink:

Top post PINNACLE, wholeheartedly agree

Me too - every word.

He's built a squad of crocks and kids so can't complain really when the crocks are erm crocked and the kids look green in certain scenarios.

I will be there for the next game in a first team competition which isn't for a couple of weeks now so hopefully we get a few fit and learn a bit.

[PT]

Oh and just like some of our defending was shocking so was some of our support. No problem with boos on final whistle but some people need to get some serious perspective.

[reedswood sadler]

Don't really know what to say or what the possible answer is, 3-0 up even at half time should be game over.
My Team & My manager are naive and i cant really see things improving................
but they are are My Team & My manager and as much as i am shell shocked and disheartened i will be there for the next game.
C'mon Whitney sort it out mate.

Sums up what I am feeling to,always support every game even going to league sellout game against Grimsby.
Lets hope something sorted out for Northampton game but at least it is only short journey back if another shocker.

[Mazza01]

Crazy to think Osbourne is now our most important player.

That basically tells you everything about this squad.

[sid swifty]

I think he should be given at least 15 games to get it right,but the thing that puzzles me is all that talk in the close season when he was saying things like "I won't bring just any player in,he has to fit in to the squad,I want players who can change things on the pitch and be leaders".Now he seems to be saying that they can't think for themselves and are far from being leaders.

[Mazza01]

I think he should be given at least 15 games to get it right,but the thing that puzzles me is all that talk in the close season when he was saying things like "I won't bring just any player in,he has to fit in to the squad,I want players who can change things on the pitch and be leaders".Now he seems to be saying that they can't think for themselves and are far from being leaders.

He talks rubbish! Bringing in a Villa youngster? How has he got the right attributes?

[Harry]

Can we please not have Simeon Jackson up front on his own anymore? Whitney has tried this six times now, over 570 minutes of play, and it has never looked remotely like a good idea.

Edwards was made to look a fool at left back by Ismail. He had no idea how to defend against a half decent winger.

Why bring on Bakayoko and play him on the wing? He is a striker, not a winger, but then we have only specialist winger in the squad, Ginnelly and presumably Whitney thinks that he is not good enough.

Why bring on Kouhyar and play him on the left wing?

[giglee]

Longtime lurker, first-time poster.

A few words come to mind over that performance: insipid, careless and tactically naive.

First half I felt we were good value, if a little lucky to be 3-0 up. There was good movement and a good tempo to our play. In particular Morris and Ozzy looked very threatening and you could smell the danger when they linked up. We could've even have scored 5 if Jackson had taken his two 1 on 1s. However, there were warning signs in our inability to prevent crosses coming in and the entire team backing off when someone ran at them. That being said we looked by far the better team, helped by Bury's dodgy defence, and it looked game over at half time.

So imagine my surprise coming back slightly late at half time, looked up to see we'd already let in a goal and then they scored again! Absolute shambles. Unfortunately the warning signs from the first half were lost on the manager. It was obvious what the talk was in the Bury dressing room at half time (apart from a bollocking), was to target the left side and to run at the defence as it was obvious everyone was too spineless to make a challenge aside from osbourne who had gone off. Players were allowed to run from halfway to our box with absolute ease.

It makes we wonder what the hell Whitney says to the players at half-time, as it was nothing short of a collapse. Dobson was awful and did nothing at all when he came on, no pressure or passing, it felt like we were playing with ten men honestly (although no players could pass water in the second half, such was the level of panic). the entire back four was awful and turned into a game of who can wimp out of a challenge more, etheridge's kicking became laughable and chambers was the best of a bad bunch (how he won MotM I don't know). Morris looked lively and had a great freekick to almost snatch a win, Jackson did okay and Makris after a good start and nice assist became more anonymous as the game went on and barely helped his fullback, which meant every cross from the left side came in, which is suicide when a player like Pope is upfront.

Rico was so badly missed imo, he's excellent at preventing crosses or often he makes the winger work so hard to get past him that the cross is crap anyway. But they scored 2 from crosses from the left today (maybe 3 because I didn't see the first goal they scored) with Pope winning a header then laying it off on the edge of the box where a player would smash it in with no pressure on them. This is what i mean by bad tactics/game management, as someone should've picked up the player at the edge of the box after the first goal, but they had about 4 or 5 great chances using this same tactic and scored 2 of them. A lot of loud boos happened at this time which i felt were somewhat justified. Baka did okay when he came on, but instead of using his obvious aerial strength we decided to play mindless hoofball to Jackson all game instead (and was also played as a winger!) :x . I felt we were slightly more solid when Kouhyar came on, but that meant that the loss of Ozzy meant all creative outlets had basically gone to win the game and we were still being bossed around with ease. We were barely hanging on and we didn't even deserve a draw on that performance.

Lessons need to be learnt from this game and fast, because the only teams that surrender a 3 goal to a side like Bury are relegation contenders.

Apologies for the rambling, just tried to get all my thoughts across as best I could.

[swampysaddler]

Longtime lurker, first-time poster.

A few words come to mind over that performance: insipid, careless and tactically naive.

First half I felt we were good value, if a little lucky to be 3-0 up. There was good movement and a good tempo to our play. In particular Morris and Ozzy looked very threatening and you could smell the danger when they linked up. We could've even have scored 5 if Jackson had taken his two 1 on 1s. However, there were warning signs in our inability to prevent crosses coming in and the entire team backing off when someone ran at them. That being said we looked by far the better team, helped by Bury's dodgy defence, and it looked game over at half time.

So imagine my surprise coming back slightly late at half time, looked up to see we'd already let in a goal and then they scored again! Absolute shambles. Unfortunately the warning signs from the first half were lost on the manager. It was obvious what the talk was in the Bury dressing room at half time (apart from a bollocking), was to target the left side and to run at the defence as it was obvious everyone was too spineless to make a challenge aside from osbourne who had gone off. Players were allowed to run from halfway to our box with absolute ease.

It makes we wonder what the hell Whitney says to the players at half-time, as it was nothing short of a collapse. Dobson was awful and did nothing at all when he came on, no pressure or passing, it felt like we were playing with ten men honestly (although no players could pass water in the second half, such was the level of panic). the entire back four was awful and turned into a game of who can wimp out of a challenge more, etheridge's kicking became laughable and chambers was the best of a bad bunch (how he won MotM I don't know). Morris looked lively and had a great freekick to almost snatch a win, Jackson did okay and Makris after a good start and nice assist became more anonymous as the game went on and barely helped his fullback, which meant every cross from the left side came in, which is suicide when a player like Pope is upfront.

Rico was so badly missed imo, he's excellent at preventing crosses or often he makes the winger work so hard to get past him that the cross is crap anyway. But they scored 2 from crosses from the left today (maybe 3 because I didn't see the first goal they scored) with Pope winning a header then laying it off on the edge of the box where a player would smash it in with no pressure on them. This is what i mean by bad tactics/game management, as someone should've picked up the player at the edge of the box after the first goal, but they had about 4 or 5 great chances using this same tactic and scored 2 of them. A lot of loud boos happened at this time which i felt were somewhat justified. Baka did okay when he came on, but instead of using his obvious aerial strength we decided to play mindless hoofball to Jackson all game instead (and was also played as a winger!) :x . I felt we were slightly more solid when Kouhyar came on, but that meant that the loss of Ozzy meant all creative outlets had basically gone to win the game and we were still being bossed around with ease. We were barely hanging on and we didn't even deserve a draw on that performance.

Lessons need to be learnt from this game and fast, because the only teams that surrender a 3 goal to a side like Bury are relegation contenders.

Apologies for the rambling, just tried to get all my thoughts across as best I could.

Welcome to the board giglee.
Thanks for the in depth report.

[m&m]

But as IHTC says- last years team were a bunch of losers!

Some people have no idea of what a decent football team looks like.One thing is certain this is not one.

Crocks, kids and has beens to replace the best team we have had in a decade.

Who at the club is responsible for this debacle? I'm getting the feeling that JB has handed too much responsibility to people who are clueless when it comes to producing a decent football team.

[swampysaddler]

this is Bury for god sake. :x

:oops:

Who on earth do you think we are? Manchester United? Make no mistake Bury will come to Walsall expecting to pick up points....

Sit down shut up you happy clapping prat

:lol: :oops:

Was you actually at the game funk ? I presume not but you have a gracious opinion of it because you attend token games.
bleed_red_and_white was actually there and saw first hand what happened.
And you, being the prick you are, mock him with stupid :lol: .
Maybe you should listen to likes of bleed_red_and_white, they attend every game and see it week in week out.
You are a patronising little prick.

[Guest]

Chambers makes all the difference, trust me, if him and Osbourne can stay fit and see out the season then we'll be ok.

Osbourne off after 43 minutes, injured. You had to tempt fate, didn't you? :mrgreen: Fortunately we don't have another League One game for a fortnight, so perhaps he will be restored to 100% by then.

3-0 at half-time is a situation that makes me very happy!!! I might even want to see the highlights later.....

Just for you, Welsh.

https://youtu.be/Wo2mAMXKmj4