QF3 - England v Portugal, Saturday 4.0pm BST

[Cully]

I don't think the locals of Stuttgart would view it as acceptable that their town centre was smashed up just because a lot of other English fans DIDN'T happen to do. I also don't suppose the police managed to arrest every single fan involved, they'll have just grabbed whatever ringleaders and chief troublemakers they could.

The truth is, 500 arrests is dreadful, the media don't instigate it, they report it, and surely we should be ashamed of it, not trying to make excuses.

and the media manipulate the truth and report their sensational version which usually bears no relation to the truth.

I note that you reported that the 'lovely old town square' in Stuttgart was 'smashed up' by England fans. This is simply not true, my son was in Stuttgart that day and night and the day after and saw none of the damage that you report. I'm not sure of where you get your information from Ian, perhaps you could point me in the right direction of your source.

The arrests made by the local police during a 24 hr period were of a 'preventative' nature and of the 502 arrests/detained there have only been 3 people charged; two for throwing a plastic chair and one women for possession of cocaine. Rather suprisingly I can find no information as to criminal damage. Further, I note that the local head of police reported that the number of arrests was no more than after a regular Saturday night game by Schalke.
Violence by other fans in Germany has been far more serious, eg. after the Germany Poland game 96 people were charged with various violent offences.

England had the largest group of away support, some 315,000 fans and I am only aware of two charges of violent behaviour[assault] yet brought by the police after a fight between two English fans and two German fans who were also charged. Apparently there have been a total of 6000 preventative arrests/detentions so far and of those 711 are English of which 7 have been charged with any criminal offence. For those keen on numbers/statistics I reckon that's 1 person charged out of 45,000, hardly the picture the press would want to present. [In fact I would be interested if anybody out there can tell me how many people were charged with criminal offences in this country during the same period]

It's a pity that the facts get in the way of a good story, still, better to report rubbish in colour than the truth in monocrome eh Ian?

[SaigonSaddler]

Ive been playing football all my life, and the point i try to make is as follows. I cannot see for the life of me how playing in a 'different' position effects majorly on performance, which is why im so scathing about him and lampard.

They are paid XXXXX amount of money to play poorly, because they were 'in the wrong position?' rubbish imho, its nto like he was at left back then fair enough, but he played in midfield, hes a midfielder, does playign slightly back effect movement, energy levels and creativity, not for me it doesnt, sorry.

I think it can depending on what gibberish sven whispered into his ear. Gerrard is hardly a monumental intellect so some of sven's rambling bollox will have upset his game. I don't blame Gerrard at all.

Playing in a different position can and does effect a players game: where does he received the balls from, does he cut in, are the passes he has to make crosses or through balls, how pacey are his nearest collegues, does he have to use his weaker foot? - [example Andy Cole at Newcastle and Man Utd - same position, different stategy and one was more suited to the player, the other he had to grow into]. Even if it shouldn't effect it, it probably will because the player will at the very least have to think about what he's meant to do rather than just playing on auto-pilot. New and unusual positioning is another example of sven's failure......

[We-ARE-Walsall]

I just wonder what McClaren will be doing to the team, hopefully dropping Lampard, a man who is paid a stupid amount of money per week but can't score when he had like 24 shots? it was around that anyway

I like Carrick but I prefer Hargreaves he just doesn't stop running plays with his heart pure passion, brilliant IMO

The only reason for me that he isnt glorified as much as Gerrard and Lampard, is due to the fact he doesnt play in the premiership and we dont see him week in , week out. I watch the Bundesliga quite a lot, and hes been bayerns best player this year. The Bloke is class, hes not in through luck, hes class. Be a great signing for Arsenal imho.

I think your being blinded by it, honest i do mate, he played well, he has a good engine, no doubt, his stamina levels are something every single player in the English team could learn from.

But he hasn't got the game Gerrard has, he can't pass like him, he can't shoot like him, he certainly can't tackle like him, yes thats right, superb tackler Gerrard, if a little to aggressive with it for the modern game.

Although he was superb Hargreaves, he didn't actually do the job a defensive Midfeilder should, which is sit there, intercept, tackle, and start off attacks, instead he was here there and every where, in which case would probably have been better suited playing next to Gerrard, and letting Carrick sit behind.

Me personally would have played Gerrard on the right and dropped Beckham, In a 4-4-2, with Crouch supporting Rooney. Crouch did well also when coming on, i am suprised he hasn't been made a scape goat, but his efforts yesterday maybe saved him that at least

[SaigonSaddler]

No problem with Crouch as he played to his potential. One or two of the others need a slap, but the majority of the blame goes to sven. :x

[Stu]

I note that you reported that the 'lovely old town square' in Stuttgart was 'smashed up' by England fans. This is simply not true, my son was in Stuttgart that day and night and the day after and saw none of the damage that you report. I'm not sure of where you get your information from Ian, perhaps you could point me in the right direction of your source.

A friend of mine was over in Stuttgart for the weekend two, and said he was amazed how the press over here had over-hyped what actually went on. He said it was nothing like what had been described.

[matty_walsall4eva]

Gutted

[SheffieldSaddler]

I don't think the locals of Stuttgart would view it as acceptable that their town centre was smashed up just because a lot of other English fans DIDN'T happen to do. I also don't suppose the police managed to arrest every single fan involved, they'll have just grabbed whatever ringleaders and chief troublemakers they could.

The truth is, 500 arrests is dreadful, the media don't instigate it, they report it, and surely we should be ashamed of it, not trying to make excuses.

And what would the residents of Dortmund think when their own fans i.e Germany went to war with Poland Ian?
You are too bloody fast to jump on the England fans in Stuggart, but where was your post when the riot took place in Dortmund?
Well Ian, Where was it?

[philthesaddler]

Well, we've been robbed again.

For the second time Portugal have beaten us in thanks to dodgy decisions.

We didnt play well, but we were improving, our second half performance before rooney getting sent off was vibrant and we were in control.

Rooney's sending off shouldnt have happened, the referee was influenced by Portugal's players. For a start it was a free kick for us, then, then ref gave the kick, and wasnt going to award any cards until ronaldo stuck his awe in, the cheating b@stard.

Not to mention the rest of the side who spent the whole match diving and rolling all over the place, on and figo who shouldnt have been playing in the first place, and the penalty for handball that the referee and linesman missed. Overall poor refereeing has done us in again - but I believe you make your own luck, and we didn't play well enough in 5 games to deserve to go through. Lampard and terry were poor throughout, Beckham was dire, relying on a formation concentrating and centred round a semi-fit recovering wayne rooney was never the brightest idea. I'm not the biggest fan of Peter Crouch, but we should have used him from the start because at least he'd have done would have given us a target man and given their defence something to think about.

All in all, poor refereeing has sent us out, but I don't think we did enough to deserve to go through, so I guess its Karma

[saddlerken]

Sven is to blame, too negative and not enough balls to drop people who didn't play well/couldn't fit into formations.

Ronaldo is a cheating vile little runt, in fact the Portugal and Argentinian attitude on the pitch is an utter disgrace. Figo rolls around like a pathetic little child, it really makes me sick, will Fifa do anything about it? Fat chance, it's disgusting, diving cheating tvvats. Totally different morals and attitude to our culture, I hope I never see English kids being told to dive.

The worst thing about this is our pathetic Football Association, their appointment of Crozier who appointed Sven and gave the go ahead for the new Wembley in London at a ludicrous cost of £750m Iit was Crozier?), it beggers belief, I try not to think about it because it makes me so angry. Correct me if I'm wrong but to subsidise the new Wembley didn't the FA abandon a £200m centre of excellence pencilled in near Burton? The ticket allocating at the world cup, the con to the englandfans group, a bloke at my work got 11 caps watching England home and away and he didn't get a single ticket, pathetic. Shocking organisation. The richest football association in world football by far and it's a complete farce.

And now SM to take over, good luck to him but he hasn't exactly set the world alight at Boro has he?

Beckham should have quit International football, not just the captaincy.

The best thing, our amazing loyal fans (vast vast majority) who have been outstanding both in Germany and in Japan/Korea and Portugal. I hope the England players realise just how lucky they are that no matter where in the world England play, there will be more England fans that the opposition. I will continue to follow England.

The media are nobs, build them up and shoot them down attitude is disgraceful from a bunch of prats who have never kicked a football, someone shoot Brian Woolnough!

[Leonard]

Too simplistic.

One person cannot be blamed for this. The manager, the players, but most of all, public expectations are to blame. We are simply not good enough, yet every tournament we kid ourselves that we have world class players who will win the competition. We don't have a Zidane, Henry, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, etc, etc. We are also very amateurish in our approach - Germany don't have great players, but still manage to do a damn sight better than us.

[SaigonSaddler]

Too simplistic.

One person cannot be blamed for this. The manager, the players, but most of all, public expectations are to blame. We are simply not good enough, yet every tournament we kid ourselves that we have world class players who will win the competition. We don't have a Zidane, Henry, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, etc, etc. We are also very amateurish in our approach - Germany don't have great players, but still manage to do a damn sight better than us.

Nonsense.

We have the players - Gerrard is world class and we had (on paper) the most powerful midfield, the defence is one of the best and Rooney is feared by defences across the world. We have the players. They were mismanaged by that incompetent berk and for some reason failed to fire on all cylinders. Sven was that reason. The public was right to think we had a great chance of winning it - look who's in the semi's!

[Neil Ravenscroft]

Too simplistic.

One person cannot be blamed for this. The manager, the players, but most of all, public expectations are to blame. We are simply not good enough, yet every tournament we kid ourselves that we have world class players who will win the competition. We don't have a Zidane, Henry, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, etc, etc. We are also very amateurish in our approach - Germany don't have great players, but still manage to do a damn sight better than us.

Nonsense.

We have the players - Gerrard is world class and we had (on paper) the most powerful midfield, the defence is one of the best and Rooney is feared by defences across the world. We have the players. They were mismanaged by that incompetent berk and for some reason failed to fire on all cylinders. Sven was that reason. The public was right to think we had a great chance of winning it - look who's in the semi's!

Sorry, but the game is played on grass, not paper and Gerrard, Cole et al (and especially Lampard) have been found very, very wanting. If Gerrard is "world class", it's about time he showed it wearing a white shirt rather than red and, if Lampard is International class, it's just time he showed it.

[King Crimson]

Sorry, but the game is played on grass, not paper and Gerrard, Cole et al (and especially Lampard) have been found very, very wanting. If Gerrard is "world class", it's about time he showed it wearing a white shirt rather than red and, if Lampard is International class, it's just time he showed it.

But it wasn't played on grass. As Cloughie once said, "If football was supposed to be played in the air, God would have put grass on the clouds." Its hard for anyone to contribute to a midfield that is by-passed by hoofs up-field to a lone striker who isn't one.

[Duke]

Sorry, but the game is played on grass, not paper and Gerrard, Cole et al (and especially Lampard) have been found very, very wanting. If Gerrard is "world class", it's about time he showed it wearing a white shirt rather than red and, if Lampard is International class, it's just time he showed it.

Its hard for anyone to contribute to a midfield that is by-passed by hoofs up-field to a lone striker who isn't one.

Totally agree KC that was our downfall .

[SaigonSaddler]

Sorry, but the game is played on grass, not paper and Gerrard, Cole et al (and especially Lampard) have been found very, very wanting. If Gerrard is "world class", it's about time he showed it wearing a white shirt rather than red and, if Lampard is International class, it's just time he showed it.

Its hard for anyone to contribute to a midfield that is by-passed by hoofs up-field to a lone striker who isn't one.

Totally agree KC that was our downfall .

They've all shown us what they can do for their respective teams, there was a reason why they couldn't reproduce that form for England and that reason was Sven. Same players, different manager.

[Duke]

Sorry, but the game is played on grass, not paper and Gerrard, Cole et al (and especially Lampard) have been found very, very wanting. If Gerrard is "world class", it's about time he showed it wearing a white shirt rather than red and, if Lampard is International class, it's just time he showed it.

Its hard for anyone to contribute to a midfield that is by-passed by hoofs up-field to a lone striker who isn't one.

Totally agree KC that was our downfall .

They've all shown us what they can do for their respective teams, there was a reason why they couldn't reproduce that form for England and that reason was Sven. Same players, different manager.

and very poor negative tactics

[Neil Ravenscroft]

Then you should have listened to (at last!) the informed debate on Five Live tonight about Sven's greatest mistake was not solving the Gerrard/Lampard debate by, basically, dropping one of them, probably Lampard. They also pointed out that, if you listen to commentary on the Permiership from other countries, in Ireland, for example, you get a less biased view and the shortcomings of Lampard especially are talked about.

Sven had nothing to do with the England disasters in 1998, 1994, 1986, 1982, 1978 and 1974 (and I'd include 1990, to be honest, as we were fortunate against both Cameroon and Belgium). Those, like this, had at their root, the fact that our football is not as good as we like to think it is and, while we keep piling the blame on the Manager, nothing will be done about it.

[SheffieldSaddler]

Neil, have you got nothing better to write?
Throughout the World Cup all I have read is you continual slating of Lampard. It boring, its cheap and its damn right pathetic.
Get a life, if only we all did our job as good as you do yours 52 weeks of the year, 24 hours a day etc etc.
If only we performed our best like you do, 52 weeks of the year, 24 hours a day etc etc.
Just do something else, watch cricket, take up knitting or go out and have a friggin drink and forget Lampard.
There is damn right rude and boring and you.

[Neil Ravenscroft]

Neil, have you got nothing better to write?
Throughout the World Cup all I have read is you continual slating of Lampard. It boring, its cheap and its damn right pathetic.
Get a life, if only we all did our job as good as you do yours 52 weeks of the year, 24 hours a day etc etc.
If only we performed our best like you do, 52 weeks of the year, 24 hours a day etc etc.
Just do something else, watch cricket, take up knitting or go out and have a friggin drink and forget Lampard.
There is damn right rude and boring and you.

It always hurts when I'm proved right, doesn't it? Just accept it - he's had a bloody awful World Cup, by all the pundits admission as well, and has looked wanting at this level. The Lampard/Gerrard partnership has been proved to not work yet again. Your main counter was "he who laughs last, laughs longest". I still haven't heard Frank laugh, I'm afraid.

[Stu]

Its only true though Sheff... Lampard has been a shadow of the player we see in the Premiership at times. If any other player wasn't performing, you'd advocate them to be dropped just like you do with Walsall players.

Not that Eriksson would ever drop him and not that I think McLaren will have the balls to drop him either, but its now plain to see they can't play together in a 4-4-2 or even a 4-5-1. And if your comparing the two, Gerrard is a far better all round player.

Mourinho must look at the England performances and thank the lord that Gerrard turned him down, as it means he doesn't have the same problem.

[King Crimson]

Mourinho must look at the England performances and thank the lord that Gerrard turned him down, as it means he doesn't have the same problem.

But Stu, Mourinho would not have had 'the same problem'. There was a BIG feeling around the press pack etc that had Gerrard moved to Stamford Bridge, he would have played alongside Makelele, and Frank Lampard would have been on his way abroad, probably Barcelona.

Gerrard and Lampard cannot play as the two central midfielders. I think that is clear. IF Lampard is 'undroppable' or if his form improves, I'd even prefer to see Gerrard out on the right (or even right back, where he has played with considerable success for Liverpool) than us ending up with the mesmeric and confusing 4-5-1 or 4-1-4-1 or however else one wishes to dress up dull as cack Italian-style negativity.

[SaigonSaddler]

Then you should have listened to (at last!) the informed debate on Five Live tonight about Sven's greatest mistake was not solving the Gerrard/Lampard debate by, basically, dropping one of them, probably Lampard. They also pointed out that, if you listen to commentary on the Permiership from other countries, in Ireland, for example, you get a less biased view and the shortcomings of Lampard especially are talked about.

Sven had nothing to do with the England disasters in 1998, 1994, 1986, 1982, 1978 and 1974 (and I'd include 1990, to be honest, as we were fortunate against both Cameroon and Belgium). Those, like this, had at their root, the fact that our football is not as good as we like to think it is and, while we keep piling the blame on the Manager, nothing will be done about it.

But it's the manager's job to hone these talents into an effective fighting force, apply them in the right way so they can do what they're good at, as their manager's succeed in doing at all of their clubs. There are numerous reasons for the lack of success in years gone by: at least twice 86 and 90 we have been one game away from winning it (in my opinion), 94 and 98 were down to bizarre managers, and the years 74, 78, 82 we were simply not good enough (as teams invariably sometimes aren't).

Our football isn't the most skillful in the world, I agree but that doesn't preclude us from winning it given the right leadership.

I believe that in 2006 would have won, had it not been for one man. Taking into account the whole squad at our disposal, given a decent formation and straight-forward tasks and all other things being equal (yes this does include the same erratic form of certain players and the same injuries). The opposition were all there for the taking.

[Neil Ravenscroft]

And, as long as you keep thinking that, and ignore our poor overall performance in 1990, for example, when we were bloody lucky to get to the semi, and 1986, when we were even worse until Robson stumbled upon his best team by accident thorugh injury and suspension, then we will never improve.

We need to start appreciating that good defending is as entertaining and important as good attacking. We need to realise that good midfield play at this level is about patience and not whistling and booing, just because we don't get it forward quickly, that players need to be able to think on their feet and not be rigid, to react to the flow of the game and not be straightjacketed into roles as they are at club level and correct many other wrongs that are endemic in our game.

[SaigonSaddler]

And, as long as you keep thinking that, and ignore our poor overall performance in 1990, for example, when we were bloody lucky to get to the semi, and 1986, when we were even worse until Robson stumbled upon his best team by accident thorugh injury and suspension, then we will never improve.

We need to start appreciating that good defending is as entertaining and important as good attacking. We need to realise that good midfield play at this level is about patience and not whistling and booing, just because we don't get it forward quickly, that players need to be able to think on their feet and not be rigid, to react to the flow of the game and not be straightjacketed into roles as they are at club level and correct many other wrongs that are endemic in our game.

Like Spain, the perenial underachievers of all time?

It's not the general style of play that's missing but the quality of leadership - something we've been lacking for most of our adventures. Should have had Brian Clough but the dinosaurs at the FA wouldn't have that would they?

Therein lies the other reason for our continued failure: the FA. Not content with ruining the Premier league and turning it over to the whim of corporate finance, they have hamstrung England with the appointment of pathetic choices - Keegan?! Hoddle?! Taylor?! How can you hope to win anything with them? Utter madness. Sven has now fallen into that same fold. And the only times we've had managers/coaches that were any good (Venables, Robson and Ramsay) we've either won a major competition or come within touching distance.

[King Crimson]

Therein lies the other reason for our continued failure: the FA. Not content with ruining the Premier league and turning it over to the whim of corporate finance, they have hamstrung England with the appointment of pathetic choices - Keegan?! Hoddle?! Taylor?! How can you hope to win anything with them? Utter madness. Sven has now fallen into that same fold. And the only times we've had managers/coaches that were any good (Venables, Robson and Ramsay) we've either won a major competition or come within touching distance.

Spot on.

[Stu]

In all fairness, there were very few other choices at the time when Messrs Keegan, Hoddle & Taylor were appointed.

English managers are few & far between and I fear we're making exactly the same mistake with Steve McLaren now. But he hardly had any real competition as I wouldn't have touched Curbishley, Allardyce or Pearce either.

Yet folk then whinge when we look at foreign managers.

No win situation for the FA isn't it?

[Registered Saddler]

While I don't necessarily disagree that FA politics has resulted in some less than inspired choices, hindsight is always in 20/20 vision. In addition - I would add to your comparison of former managers that Ramsay and Venables had home advantage, you cannot ignore that plays a part. Robson's record was: failed to qualify, quarter-final, first round, semi-final. Yep, we did well at Italia 90 and we were very unlucky against Germany, but prior to that Robson's record was nothing to shout about. In fact he precided over one of our most embarrassing moments in our performance in 1988. I think you are judging Eriksson far too harshly.

[saddlerken]

In all fairness, there were very few other choices at the time when Messrs Keegan, Hoddle & Taylor were appointed.

English managers are few & far between and I fear we're making exactly the same mistake with Steve McLaren now. But he hardly had any real competition as I wouldn't have touched Curbishley, Allardyce or Pearce either.

Yet folk then whinge when we look at foreign managers.

No win situation for the FA isn't it?

I still don't care what nation the manager is, it should be the best man for the job, I'd obviously prefer an Englishmen but if there wasn't one good enough then I'd go abraod, having said that, no one from abroad wants it as both Hiddink and Scholari didn't want the press intrusion.

Thanks once again to our media :x

[philthesaddler]

Who's been the three most successful managers in English football over the past 10 years: Alec Ferguson, Arsene Wenger and Jose Mourihno, Scottish, Belge and Portugese respectively.

Most successful English manager? Probably Allardyce for me.

Who would I have picked for the England job? Martin O'Neill

[Exile]

No win situation for the FA isn't it?

You have to admit they could do better, but having said that, 'Adam Crozier' is a perfect anagram of 'useless c***'.

These are the people who run the game,who take the money. Sorry, but they should know better,