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Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Walsall supporters react to England's despairs - as they happened. No text speak, please.
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The Red Prince
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Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:08 am

But only if they don't play well in the qualifiers!

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/world_cup/865126/CAPELLO-WARNS-HIS-BIG-NAME-FLOPS.html

No, no, no, no! Axe them NOW or things won't change!

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:48 pm

The thing is we cant just axe all of them.

We just need to start trying out/integrating the young players more now, and give those established names a kick up the arse, if they play badly, they are dropped.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:59 pm

latviancheese wrote: if they play badly, they are dropped.


I remember reading in Stuart Pearce's autobiography that he used to say to his Forest and England chum Des Walker before each game "C'mon Des, let's go out and win two caps!" Walker knew what this meant - if you go out and play well, you'll be in the starting line-up for the next international.

I think there has been too little of this of late. Play well or play badly - if your name's Rooney, Lampard, Terry, Gerrard etc etc. you're in.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:05 pm

King Crimson wrote:
latviancheese wrote: if they play badly, they are dropped.


I remember reading in Stuart Pearce's autobiography that he used to say to his Forest and England chum Des Walker before each game "C'mon Des, let's go out and win two caps!" Walker knew what this meant - if you go out and play well, you'll be in the starting line-up for the next international.

I think there has been too little of this of late. Play well or play badly - if your name's Rooney, Lampard, Terry, Gerrard etc etc. you're in.


Exactly, the way it should be is, no player is bigger than the team. Look at Germany, they play as a unit. Sure they have some great players, but they are even better team players.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:13 pm

latviancheese wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
latviancheese wrote: if they play badly, they are dropped.


I remember reading in Stuart Pearce's autobiography that he used to say to his Forest and England chum Des Walker before each game "C'mon Des, let's go out and win two caps!" Walker knew what this meant - if you go out and play well, you'll be in the starting line-up for the next international.

I think there has been too little of this of late. Play well or play badly - if your name's Rooney, Lampard, Terry, Gerrard etc etc. you're in.


Exactly, the way it should be is, no player is bigger than the team. Look at Germany, they play as a unit. Sure they have some great players, but they are even better team players.


Exactly right. In at least a couple of the games we could or should have taken Rooney off as he was playing so poorly, but think of the gasps of horror if he had been! It's been seen with Spain too - they took Torres off for a taller, gangly striker (Florente I think) and right away looked a better team and scored. Did it with Fabregas again yesterday too.

It takes a brave man to substitute one of our 'heroes' in a game though, no matter what! :?

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:35 pm

Jolly Johnny wrote:
latviancheese wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
latviancheese wrote: if they play badly, they are dropped.


I remember reading in Stuart Pearce's autobiography that he used to say to his Forest and England chum Des Walker before each game "C'mon Des, let's go out and win two caps!" Walker knew what this meant - if you go out and play well, you'll be in the starting line-up for the next international.

I think there has been too little of this of late. Play well or play badly - if your name's Rooney, Lampard, Terry, Gerrard etc etc. you're in.


Exactly, the way it should be is, no player is bigger than the team. Look at Germany, they play as a unit. Sure they have some great players, but they are even better team players.


Exactly right. In at least a couple of the games we could or should have taken Rooney off as he was playing so poorly, but think of the gasps of horror if he had been! It's been seen with Spain too - they took Torres off for a taller, gangly striker (Florente I think) and right away looked a better team and scored. Did it with Fabregas again yesterday too.

It takes a brave man to substitute one of our 'heroes' in a game though, no matter what! :?


Yes, Spain did look better when LLorente came on for Torres. Torres started the next game again, though.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:26 pm

I think this is why it is good that we kept Capello.

A new manager tends to kick-off with a "clean slate" policy whereas a lot of the current squad have filthy slates that THEY should work hard to clean and if they don't possess the necessary gumption or appetite they can "do one" to use a vernacular one or two of them might be familiar with.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:53 pm

PT wrote:I think this is why it is good that we kept Capello.

A new manager tends to kick-off with a "clean slate" policy whereas a lot of the current squad have filthy slates that THEY should work hard to clean and if they don't possess the necessary gumption or appetite they can "do one" to use a vernacular one or two of them might be familiar with.



I agree. Out should go James (too old), Green (never was good enough), Johnson (can't defend - might try him as a winger), Ferdinand (too old), Terry (too old), Carragher (too old and he's 'retired' again), Cole (unless he can remeber he's supposed to be a footballer, not the main player in a soap opera with his bloody missus), Lennon (crap), Wright Phillips (crap), Gerrard (too old), Heskey (too old), Defoe, not good enough at the top international level, Crouch, ditto. Forget the Euros and concentrate on having a decent team for Brazil 2014.

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Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:57 pm

So, name some players that are good enough, young enough and English enough Neil. I'd kick off with Joe Hart, Ashley Young, Gabby Agbonlahor and Adam Johnson.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:43 pm

Aye, never really rated Young as much as the press, but he is no worse or better than Lennon.

Id also give Bent another go upfront, he's never really impressed for England, but scoring 20 goals in the premier league for a mid table side. You cant knock that.

Micah Richards has been left out of the set up for a while too? A return perhaps? Not really seen him play so dont really know.

Cattermole, could do a job in the middle perhaps?

Scott Dann :mrgreen: , had a great season though....

Dont rate Mancienne yet.

Cant really think of anyone else?

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Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:48 pm

Lee Cattermole could be Anfield-bound if Mascherano leaves.


Scott Dann for England!!!

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:51 pm

Looking through the under 21's it doesnt look all that promising....

Although a few gems could be there for the future.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:07 pm

latviancheese wrote:Looking through the under 21's it doesnt look all that promising....

Although a few gems could be there for the future.


Yeah, but recent experience should have taught us all that a 'team' is one that's worth more than the sum of its parts!

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:45 pm

I'd take a champion team over a team of champions every day of the week!

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:24 am

Can't do any worse, try out some new lads or pick the same tired faces that have failed under three managers?

hmmmmmmmmmmm

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:33 am

I don't think it is necessarily about wholesale changes in personnel, actually I don't think the youngsters are any better than what we have in the squad now. The U-21's got thrashed by Germany too.

Capello could start by playing people in position, picking a balanced formation even if it means we have to drop one of the "names", it's tough if two of our "best" player play in the same position you can't play them both. Finally, please please only play those in form. It doesn't matter who the hell you are, in knock out football when you only have 90 minutes do or die, you have to play the best player in each position. It was clear to me after the Algeria game that Rooney & Lampard should not be playing.

If Alf Ramsey had the same mentality as the last half dozen England managers, England would not have won the World Cup in 1966, because Geoff Hurst would have been sitting on the bench.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:11 pm

PJD wrote:I don't think it is necessarily about wholesale changes in personnel, actually I don't think the youngsters are any better than what we have in the squad now. The U-21's got thrashed by Germany too.

Capello could start by playing people in position, picking a balanced formation even if it means we have to drop one of the "names", it's tough if two of our "best" player play in the same position you can't play them both. Finally, please please only play those in form. It doesn't matter who the hell you are, in knock out football when you only have 90 minutes do or die, you have to play the best player in each position. It was clear to me after the Algeria game that Rooney & Lampard should not be playing.

If Alf Ramsey had the same mentality as the last half dozen England managers, England would not have won the World Cup in 1966, because Geoff Hurst would have been sitting on the bench.


I agree with most of that post, despite my drop the lot reaction after it happened, I guess we don't really have anyone else to replace them, and a more logical approach would be better.

I don't agree with 1966 though, okay I wasn't there , but what I was told by my Dad, Greaves got injured, and he never put him back in the side, because Hurst did well while he was out, which is basically what you were saying I think. However my Dad reckoned Greaves would have made any team in that world cup better. He also said Portugal were by far the best side in the tournament, and we were actually a better side in 1970, and the manager made some big mistakes which cost us dear. Don't know how true it all is, but he knew his football, so I have always believed it.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:26 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:

I agree. Out should go James (too old), Green (never was good enough), Johnson (can't defend - might try him as a winger), Ferdinand (too old), Terry (too old), Carragher (too old and he's 'retired' again), Cole (unless he can remeber he's supposed to be a footballer, not the main player in a soap opera with his bloody missus), Lennon (crud), Wright Phillips (crud), Gerrard (too old), Heskey (too old), Defoe, not good enough at the top international level, Crouch, ditto. Forget the Euros and concentrate on having a decent team for Brazil 2014.


Its simple for people to drop players. But who are your replacements Neil?
What is you age cut off? Personally anyone 27 or older if you are wanting a complete overall. That would make squad players 30 or younger in 2014.
That would mean only Hart, Johnson, Dawson, Lennon and Rooney from current squad.
Very worrying, if those are 5 and we have no one else.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:18 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:

I agree. Out should go James (too old), Green (never was good enough), Johnson (can't defend - might try him as a winger), Ferdinand (too old), Terry (too old), Carragher (too old and he's 'retired' again), Cole (unless he can remeber he's supposed to be a footballer, not the main player in a soap opera with his bloody missus), Lennon (crud), Wright Phillips (crud), Gerrard (too old), Heskey (too old), Defoe, not good enough at the top international level, Crouch, ditto. Forget the Euros and concentrate on having a decent team for Brazil 2014.


Its simple for people to drop players. But who are your replacements Neil?
What is you age cut off? Personally anyone 27 or older if you are wanting a complete overall. That would make squad players 30 or younger in 2014.
That would mean only Hart, Johnson, Dawson, Lennon and Rooney from current squad.
Very worrying, if those are 5 and we have no one else.


Yes, that's exactly what it means and should mean. We had the oldest squad for this World Cup we've ever had and one of the oldest in the competition. While the media were bumming up our chances, they were deriding the Italians for being too old, yet the average age of the squads was the same! If your plan is to win the World Cup, everything else should be subservient to it. The fact that the next generation might not be good enough is back to the destruction of young English talent by the Premier League.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:30 pm

Wilshere, Walcott (not sure how he stands with The Don), Gibbs, Welbeck perhaps?

Don't agree about dropping Ashley Cole. He wasn't good, but the other three clowns in defence brought him down with them.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:31 pm

The weakest player should be killed and eaten by the rest of the squad in an effort to boost their power.

Some people complain that I run a tight ship, but who can argue with logic like that?

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:46 pm

SaigonSaddler wrote:The weakest player should be killed and eaten by the rest of the squad in an effort to boost their power.

Some people complain that I run a tight ship, but who can argue with logic like that?


Just execute them on the centre circle.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:48 pm

Blazing_Saddler wrote:... I was told by my Dad, Greaves got injured, and he never put him back in the side, because Hurst did well while he was out, which is basically what you were saying, I think. However my Dad reckoned Greaves would have made any team in that World Cup better. He also said Portugal were by far the best side in the tournament and we were actually a better side in 1970, and the manager made some big mistakes which cost us dear. Don't know how true it all is, but he knew his football, so I have always believed it.


Well, I AM old enough to remember the 1966 tournament (and went to one of the games) and your Dad was right:-
(i) Greaves was a truly world-class player and was my schoolboy hero. I could never forgive Ramsey for keeping him out and selecting that donkey, Roger Hunt (think white Emile Heskey) ... but, of course, Ramsey had the perfect riposte!
(ii) Portugal were the best footballing team in 1966 but they were also one of the dirtiest and most cynical. Their treatment of Brazil - and Pele, in particular - was an absolute disgrace.
(iii) We were a better team in 1970 but were very unlucky, with Gordon Banks's illness and a trumped-up charge against Bobby Moore, in Colombia, disrupting the preparation, etc. Whether we could have prevented Brazil from winning it, though, is quite another matter.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:20 pm

Fray Bentos is God! wrote:Wilshere, Walcott (not sure how he stands with The Don), Gibbs, Welbeck perhaps?

Don't agree about dropping Ashley Cole. He wasn't good, but the other three clowns in defence brought him down with them.



You're falling for it again. By the time we reach (assuming qualification) Brazil 2014, Cashley will be a not so sprightly 33 - probably no longer pacey enough for the position. If you want to build a side, be ruthless.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:24 pm

There is ruthless, and then there is ding things for the sake of it.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:46 pm

Pedagogue wrote:
Blazing_Saddler wrote:... I was told by my Dad, Greaves got injured, and he never put him back in the side, because Hurst did well while he was out, which is basically what you were saying, I think. However my Dad reckoned Greaves would have made any team in that World Cup better. He also said Portugal were by far the best side in the tournament and we were actually a better side in 1970, and the manager made some big mistakes which cost us dear. Don't know how true it all is, but he knew his football, so I have always believed it.


Well, I AM old enough to remember the 1966 tournament (and went to one of the games) and your Dad was right:-
(i) Greaves was a truly world-class player and was my schoolboy hero. I could never forgive Ramsey for keeping him out and selecting that donkey, Roger Hunt (think white Emile Heskey) ... but, of course, Ramsey had the perfect riposte!
(ii) Portugal were the best footballing team in 1966 but they were also one of the dirtiest and most cynical. Their treatment of Brazil - and Pele, in particular - was an absolute disgrace.
(iii) We were a better team in 1970 but were very unlucky, with Gordon Banks's illness and a trumped-up charge against Bobby Moore, in Colombia, disrupting the preparation, etc. Whether we could have prevented Brazil from winning it, though, is quite another matter.

Greaves was among the very best strikers in the world, but he was coming back from injury and the less gifted Hurst when he got his chance was scoring goals. Sound familiar to Rooney and Crouch at all? I think it does. Ramsey went with form, Capello went with reputation. I think you can compare the relative success of their strategies.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:50 pm

The Red Prince wrote:But only if they don't play well in the qualifiers!

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/world_cup/865126/CAPELLO-WARNS-HIS-BIG-NAME-FLOPS.html

No, no, no, no! Axe them NOW or things won't change!



we normally do well in qualifies McClaren excepted .

must be the only one om here I'm still not convinced Capello is the right man hope he proves me wrong

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:14 pm

latviancheese wrote:There is ruthless, and then there is ding things for the sake of it.


Just ask the question, is the so called "best left back in the world" still going to be in 2014 at the age of 33 and is the risk worth running? I'm not saying it isn't, but the question has to be asked. If we really want to win tournaments, everything else must be subservient to that aim.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:26 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:If we really want to win tournaments, everything else must be subservient to that aim.


Are you going to write to the Premier League clubs and tell them that? :D

Think you'll find that the pursuit of money is an obsessive focus that precludes anything else.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:22 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
latviancheese wrote:There is ruthless, and then there is ding things for the sake of it.


Just ask the question, is the so called "best left back in the world" still going to be in 2014 at the age of 33 and is the risk worth running? I'm not saying it isn't, but the question has to be asked. If we really want to win tournaments, everything else must be subservient to that aim.


Of course, once a player is over 30 he is automatically past it.

Im not saying he will be good enough, and yes plan for the future. But you cannot simply write players off because in 4 years they might not be good enough.

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