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Sack the Swede, sack the Swede, sack the Swede

Walsall supporters react to England's despairs - as they happened. No text speak, please.
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Re: Sack the Swede, sack the Swede, sack the Swede

Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:34 am

Dave Roe wrote:Can anyone give me any reasons why this prat should stay ?


What about the obvious? Isn't the Menace under a multi-million pound contract, signed after our Euro campaign, which would involve a rather hefty payout if he was sacked? That's probably also the reason he'll never resign.

Beckham says the players 'have confidence' in him. Whether that is damning with faint praise coming from that particular mouth remains to be seen.

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:18 am

i liken the result yesterday to hednesford geting chelsea in the third round of the fa cup and beating them!

why is errikson trying to build a team around beckham and playing players out of position to keep him in the side? i wouldnt even have beckham in my asquad let alone the starting 11!

it looked as if the players had no idea what they were supposed to be doing last night and as a result of this they just kept sitting farther back as the game wore on! it reminded me of colin lee's tacticks at times of if we dont concide then we wont lose.

WE CANNOT AND MUST NOT DROP ANOTHER POINT IN QUALIFYING!

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:38 am

Sack him

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:52 am

MMF, whilst Allardyce is the only English manager who is a realistic choice, I really don't believe hs is an England quality manager.

Going from the collective rejects at Bolton and playing a very direct ball to managing a team of superstars is very different.

I struggling like hell to see an English alternative to be honest and I don't know if we want to make the same mistake of bringing in another foreign manager on a long term contract.

Hence your probably best waiting till Eriksson leaves, whether that be the 2006 WC or the 2008 EC, and hoping that one of Allardyce, Curbishley or even Stuart Pearce has made the appropriate steps forward to be considered.

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:39 am

Beckham did my head in with his interview afterwards.

Guy really didnt seem bothered he lost, he just seemed quite scared about what other people were thinking.

All he kept saying was 'no matter what people or the press say, we'll all stick together'.

What a load of ****. If players play as bad as England did last night, they deserve a slagging to get them motivated. Isnt it really gonna be useful all getting together in the England camp and saying "no, its ok, dont believe the press and fans, what do they know. Its ok, dont worry".

Sticking together? all his players deserve a mauling! and he calls himself captain!???

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:49 am

Yes, but Sven is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

4-5-1 was definitely worth trying. We need to go to the World Cup with a Plan B rather than relying on 4-4-2 at all costs. There are a lot of tactically sophisticated teams there and we need to be able to combat them.

Granted, last night was an utter shambles, but I don't think it justifies the tabloids reacting like a nuclear bomb has gone off and a lynch mob assembling on here. We tried it. It failed. Sven is the same manager who won 5-1 in Germany. He hasn't become rubbish overnight.

Personally, I liked the 4-4-2 that beat N Ireland 4-0, with Beckham on the right and J Cole on the left. Rooney and Owen are the obvious forwards, but last night I found myself thinking how good a Heskey figure up front would be (Crouch? or even Heskey?) able to hold the ball up as the cavalry arrive from midfield.

Finally, although it's frustrating when Eriksson looks so aloof as things fall apart, surely we've learnt by now that a yelling, animated manager with "passion" isn't per se the answer, even if he may look as if he cares more. Kevin Keegan cared a lot, so did Graham Taylor. And who is the only manager who's ever won the World Cup for us? Sir Alf Ramsey, a cold fish if ever there was one.

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:02 am

Sven obviously won't get sacked, too comfy down the FA, he'll get the sack only when we drop out of the world cup or if we dont qualify.

Once you start giving players the choice of where to play i.e Beckham, then you risk losing because players are thick.

I think we will still qualify but I've lost any confidence in Sven.

How these players show so little passion playing for their country is a disgrace!

You wouldn't think Sven would need to install fight into the players, seems our lot think they are too big for England now, they need a fudge right bollocking

What a load of rubbish

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:19 am

Too right Ian. When we play 4-4-2 the tabloids label Sven unimaginative and clueless. When we play a different formation he gets accused of changing things all the time and ruining the shape of the team.

When we lost to Brazil in the quarters in 2002 Sven was accused of not changing it enough to get a result. When we switched to a 4-4-2 diamond formation in the second half last night, we're told he was confused and there were more formations on show than a ballroom dancing contest (Terry Butcher said that).

I would not be disappointed or surprised if Sven was sacked, because after a result like that he has to take all the flak which is going. But I still think we will qualify (even if it is via the playoffs) and I don't think there is a natural replacement for him. Lets wait until after the World Cup when we might, just might, be able to tempt Mourinho.

But what has really got my goat is the amount of utter garbage talked about tactics. Players out of position? What rot. As far as I could tell, in a 4-5-1, the only players who would possibly be out of position would be Gerrard and Owen. Rooney on the left wing? Nonsense. He plays off the front man for Man U, swapping positions with Ronaldo or whoever else is playing. That's the role he was (or should have been) playing last night, instead of going round trying to get himself sent off. The tabloids have told us for years that 4-4-2 apparently doesn't work - no natural left sided player and it stifles Gerrard and Lampard's natural game. Well we switch Becks to a holding role to try and counter that and what do we get? The same old rubbish from Gerrard and Lampard that they produce every time they pull on an England shirt. Equally there is no reason why Ferdinand and Carragher should have had any trouble against Healy and Quinn. These are players Walsall have come up against very recently and we have managed to contain them adequately. In fact most league two clubs seem to have done so this season v Peterborough. Instead N.Ireland looked like scoring every time they attacked in the second half.

Obviously there is something very wrong with the way England are playing at the moment and Sven has to take his portion of the responsibility. But to echo The Sun/Mirror/Mail/etc's rabid cry of 'Sack Sven' is falling too easily into an unproductive culture of blame. To focus on him absolves everyone else of responsibility - from the under performing 'stars' of our team, to whoever it was that said Michael Owen was match fit to play.

I wish we were playing better. I wish we hadn't been so rubbish last night, but the over-the-top calls for Sven's head on a platter annoy me too. The comment I agree with the most was on the BBC website: "Much of the criticism of Eriksson has been misguided, even xenophobic, attacked by some for the apparent crime of not being English, and even worse not being Terry Venables." I think that's true, and I think that's a very sad reflection on this country's attitude to our national football team.

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:26 am

forget the swede for a minute, that inept display by so called world class players was a joke. Im qiute sick of the negative football that they play. Quite frankly, sod the national team.

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:37 am

Anonymous wrote: I agree with the most was on the BBC website: "Much of the criticism of Eriksson has been misguided, even xenophobic, attacked by some for the apparent crime of not being English, and even worse not being Terry Venables." I think that's true, and I think that's a very sad reflection on this country's attitude to our national football team.


yer, thats right. . . .. forget how we lost to a team ranked 115th.

Forget how the man clearly has no sense of tactics other than 4-4-2 (rooney on the wing, WHAT?)

Forget how we put in a poor showing against a dire wales side and were lucky to win.

Forget how people have been unhappy with our football for a while now.

Forget all them, we want him out because hes not English :roll:

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:59 am

He clearly has got a sense of tactics because he was a huge success in European club management before he came to us. It's also the first ever qualifying game we've lost under him. Sure, we were rubbish last night - every team is sometimes - and needs to buck his ideas up, but to jump on this spiteful tabloid-inspired bandwagon of "sack the Swede, bring a blood'n'guts passionate English manager in" is to get right back on the sorry old treadmill that has led us nowhere in the past and leads us to, well, Kevin Keegan. Which managers won trophies with English clubs last year? Mourinho, Wenger and Benitez - none of them given to clenched fist gestures and cartwheeling down the touchline.

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:24 am

huge success at club management? was he?.
He had a little success at Lazio after getting through the better part of 150 million. Nothing to go crazy about though.

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:45 am

a lot of money he did spend but he did win the league and a cup i think, did he win the uefa cup too im not sure?

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:53 am

I'm just making the point that he's not a complete ignoramus, and a kneejerk sacking and panic appointment a few months before the World Cup may well end in tears.

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:59 am

Ian Gittins wrote:I'm just making the point that he's not a complete ignoramus, and a kneejerk sacking and panic appointment a few months before the World Cup may well end in tears.



thats a very fair comment but i think unless sven delivers qualification and a very good world cup (gallant losers in the semis or better) hes doomed

that gives us time to get a new man in who can get to know the players and take stock in time for the EC qualifiers

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:59 am

cant remember about the uefa cup either Gary. The point is though, I feel the bloke can only take teams a certain distance even with huge resources at his disposal. To be honest though im pretty sick and tired of the atitude of the players. Really losing interest in the lot of them now.

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:22 am

his record in portugal is quite good too, havent been arsed to pull it up as im at work, surely an idle student would do it at some time :D

i dont agree with taking people so far then just have everything fall on his arse, hes just one dimensional and the 451 affair has collapsed in a way that no englishman wanted to see

he should have stuck to 442 if we had owen and rooney, 451 isnt made for rooney anyhow because he has noone in front of him

another problem a la merson is that hell try to stick his mates in whenever he can beckham is HIS captian so will never be dropped and owen will have to be in plaster before considered unfit

the players played useless last night and to an extent so did the manager, they should all be ashamed of that performance and not just witchunt the manager

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:29 am

I dont really go for just a sven hunt. I would love some of these players dropped for a few games to give them a timely nudge. To be honest I would rather see some players in who may have less skill but would put in the maximum effort required. Ive had enough of the prima donnas.

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:43 am

Thats true we have to see the bigger picture, the manager AND the players should take responsibility for this debacle not just leave sven out to be hung and dried, not that im defending him but as i said if the media are going to launch a witchhunt they should do it on all aspects of the squad.

if i were svennis id go for

robinson (picks itself)

neville (when fit but young looks as capable)
terry (once again when fit)
king (well after watching rio we cant do much worse!)
cole (bridge is an able deputy

SWP (quick, tricky and can cross and shoot)
gerrard/lampard (as its been said theyre one and the same re: playing style)
parker/carrick (see above)

rooney (talented but needs to take a look at himself behaviourally on the pitch)

owen/defoe (crouch anyone... no didnt think so)

rooney just off owen/defoe

4 4 f*****g 2

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:17 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:I said after the Denmark match he should go. And what did I get?
Manchester Saddler "I disagree - I think he should stay in charge. Bear in mind, it is the beginning of the season and Emgland are notoriously crap at this time. There were lots of positives last season. I would say this is a freak result. "
andy_vh "geez little over reaction me thinks, its a friendly"
saddlerken "I will judge Sven on qualifiers, so far so good"

WELL LADS, what happened tonight?

I will tell you what.
The bloke in charge of England, who earns over 5 million pound a year has not got a clue! He has no plan B, and no idea whatsoever.
If your team try to pass the ball, it helps if it goes forward, not sideways and backwards.
Your captain, selected by your manager, must have something about him to get the lads going on the pitch and dig deep when things are not going our way. Beckham could not get the best out of anyone, he is useless. Give the captaincy to John Terry when he is back.

You want England to win World Cup folks? Luiz Felipe Scolari.
Get him in NOW.


To be fair Sheffield, I thought it WAS a freak result. The problem is he has panicked and tried a new stupid formation. We were lucky against Wales and absolutley ABYSMAL last night. I can't believe that he played a 4-5-1 AGAIN after Wales. Losing against Northern ireland is a disaster which we will do well to recover from.

However, Sven will NOT resign and he will NOT be sacked. You may hate this but it is fact. I would be very surprised if he went. So now what do we do?

Eriksson MUST devise is tactics to England's strengths. Get Beckham back on the right and Joe Cole on the left with Rooney and Owen up front (or maybe Defoe v Austria cos Rooney is suspended).

I would consider dropping Lampard who was useless last night. Gerrard wasn't much better but he should be in the starting line up imho.

Defence? Well let's pray that Gary Neville is fit again (what's up with him btw?). Rio Ferdinand needs a good slap and to be told he is lucky to play for England - it is not his God given right (arrogant t1t). And bring in Terry rather than Carragher.

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:19 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:I said after the Denmark match he should go. And what did I get?
Manchester Saddler "I disagree - I think he should stay in charge. Bear in mind, it is the beginning of the season and Emgland are notoriously crap at this time. There were lots of positives last season. I would say this is a freak result. "
andy_vh "geez little over reaction me thinks, its a friendly"
saddlerken "I will judge Sven on qualifiers, so far so good"

WELL LADS, what happened tonight?

I will tell you what.
The bloke in charge of England, who earns over 5 million pound a year has not got a clue! He has no plan B, and no idea whatsoever.
If your team try to pass the ball, it helps if it goes forward, not sideways and backwards.
Your captain, selected by your manager, must have something about him to get the lads going on the pitch and dig deep when things are not going our way. Beckham could not get the best out of anyone, he is useless. Give the captaincy to John Terry when he is back.

You want England to win World Cup folks? Luiz Felipe Scolari.
Get him in NOW.


To be fair Sheffield, I thought it WAS a freak result. The problem is he has panicked and tried a new stupid formation. We were lucky against Wales and absolutley ABYSMAL last night. I can't believe that he played a 4-5-1 AGAIN after Wales. Losing against Northern ireland is a disaster which we will do well to recover from.

However, Sven will NOT resign and he will NOT be sacked. You may hate this but it is fact. I would be very surprised if he went. So now what do we do?

Eriksson MUST devise is tactics to England's strengths. Get Beckham back on the right and Joe Cole on the left with Rooney and Owen up front (or maybe Defoe v Austria cos Rooney is suspended).

I would consider dropping Lampard who was useless last night. Gerrard wasn't much better but he should be in the starting line up imho.

Defence? Well let's pray that Gary Neville is fit again (what's up with him btw?). Rio Ferdinand needs a good slap and to be told he is lucky to play for England - it is not his God given right (arrogant t1t). And bring in Terry rather than Carragher.

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:53 pm

Well im back after 2 days in N. Ireland and can I say what an absolute shambles and waste of time that was. Although I drank well into the night with alot of friendly N.Ireland fans I cant bring myself to realise we actually lost! I was disgusted with the lack of pride from the players last night but that as been the case for the last 3 or 4 games! I would keep 5 or 6 of the pre-madonna's we have in the squad but let players like Scotty Parker,Kieran Richardson and Ledley King play and get passion and pride abck into the team. I aint bothered how bad our best left sided player is but we must play him to give the team balance.

I want Sven out but realistically who do we give the job to?
Personally I would give a part time job to Bobby robson for the world cup with Maclaren and Psycho helping out.

Glad to be back and off to watch the saddlers saturday!

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:12 pm

wfc_2uk wrote:I want Sven out but realistically who do we give the job to?


Our coach will be sacked too, even we won yesterday 8-0!!!!! :o The problem is it was the first win in months :cry: (we did win a friendly vs Greece) and we needed a penalty and a red card to score the first one vs ................... San Marino!!! :?

Aime Antheunis for England!!! :lol:

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:33 pm

Sacking Sven now isnt going to help the situation is it ???? Ehat with the world cup less the a year away pending we qualify that is!!!!!! But could i just bring to you attention that is the first qualifying game for a major championship that we have lost under Sven.. i for one am disgusted but lets get behind the boys.. if the world cup is a failure then get rid of him but i think he's arned a chance to prove to us what he can do

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:41 pm

He's proved what he can "do" in the last two major championships, i.e. totally bottled it when it comes to the crunch.

We've got no chance of picking up the major honours with this waster in charge. Take the bull by the horns now and get a new man in to give us the impetus to make sure we even get to the finals.

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:51 pm

How can you blame the manager for the last two exits from the championships supposed you blamed Bobby Robson for losing on penalties did you o and Terry Venables for that matter thats like what happend against Portugal and the Brazil game we just got unlucky we lost to the eventual winners while missing key players and top stars not being fit. If you want to blame someone blame the players for godsake he's made two games with bad mistakes. i know how you feel it was a disgrace but it aint just his fault is it!!

Could you please tell me how he bottled the last two championships?????????????????????//

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:55 pm

Shabba wrote:Could you please tell me how he bottled the last two championships?????????????????????//


By adopting negative tactics at a time when our momentum and all our strengths lied in our attacking prowess.

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:01 pm

All managers are like that if your calling for Svens head i expect to her you saying Merson should be out he is just as bad so plz find another excuse. plz dont get me wrong i think its a disgrace but calling for his head after losing the first qualifying game of a major championships since he took over thats abit harsh.

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:15 pm

KJC wrote:
Shabba wrote:Could you please tell me how he bottled the last two championships?????????????????????//


By adopting negative tactics at a time when our momentum and all our strengths lied in our attacking prowess.


Exactly. When it comes to the big, crunch games he hasn't got the bottle or tactical know-how to see us through, and this transfers itself to the players who become nervous and edgy.

This kind of performance and result has been on the cards for sometime now. Let's find a replacement that can give our squad back it's self belief and we may have a chance next summer. With him still in charge we're bound for a "near but no cigar" tournament.

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Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:02 pm

Dave Roe wrote:
KJC wrote:
Shabba wrote:Could you please tell me how he bottled the last two championships?????????????????????//


By adopting negative tactics at a time when our momentum and all our strengths lied in our attacking prowess.


Exactly. When it comes to the big, crunch games he hasn't got the bottle or tactical know-how to see us through, and this transfers itself to the players who become nervous and edgy.

This kind of performance and result has been on the cards for sometime now. Let's find a replacement that can give our squad back it's self belief and we may have a chance next summer. With him still in charge we're bound for a "near but no cigar" tournament.
Plus he can't control his own players. What was that inbred retard Rooney doing at the end of the first half and why wasn't he substituted? The most effective player was brought off in the second half and that mentally subnormal fool continued to play on. We'd be better off with Julian Clary as manager. All Sven does is mince around in the dugout with no bottle to deal with the rogue elements in the team.
And what is his justification for playing 4-5-1 on such a narrow pitch? I couldn't pull someone out of the Dorothy Pattison hospital who would have made a worse tactical decision.

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