We're all frustrated managers today, so...

[Fray Bentos is God!]

Slovenia game... What'd you and your Football Manager experience do?

Me personally... 4-4-1-1

James, A.Cole, Terry, Upson, Johnson, J.Cole, Milner (if well), Barry, Lennon, Gerrard, Rooney (if he's bloody lucky)

[We-ARE-Walsall]

Pretty much what you just said Gaz, although I might be inclined to stick with Lampard instead of Milner based on the fact Lampard should be able to play a more natural role if Gerrard is out of the midfield equation. I assume you had Milner as a center mid with Barry , and Cole wide ?

There are other options though, if he insists with sticking with 4-4-2, Crouch must play, with either Rooney, or Defoe. Crouch did nothing wrong before the World cup. He seemed to be a big part of Cappello's plans, I find it hard to understand why it has changed so much. I understand Crouch has only scored goals against weak opposition , blah blah bloody blah. Wtf are Algeria and the USA ? Get it Fabio ? Crouch isn't the most gifted footballer, but just seeing the size of him scares the life out of teams, he scores goals, which is quite a big plus I would say.

The main point is, why wait until the World Cup starts to start changing it all round. It makes no sense.

[Fray Bentos is God!]

Pretty much what you just said Gaz, although I might be inclined to stick with Lampard instead of Milner based on the fact Lampard should be able to play a more natural role if Gerrard is out of the midfield equation. I assume you had Milner as a center mid with Barry , and Cole wide ?

There are other options though, if he insists with sticking with 4-4-2, Crouch must play, with either Rooney, or Defoe. Crouch did nothing wrong before the World cup. He seemed to be a big part of Cappello's plans, I find it hard to understand why it has changed so much. I understand Crouch has only scored goals against weak opposition , blah blah bloody blah. Wtf are Algeria and the USA ? Get it Fabio ? Crouch isn't the most gifted footballer, but just seeing the size of him scares the life out of teams, he scores goals, which is quite a big plus I would say.

The main point is, why wait until the World Cup starts to start changing it all round. It makes no sense.

Aye bud, Milner down the middle. Though would also be tempted for Lampard and give him one more chance that he isn't an international duffer in finals.

Adam said something along the lines of that he witnessed the death of the international 4-4-2 last night, in most ways, I'm inclined to agree.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

If you play 4-4-2 you need good wingers, and stretch the game down the sides of the pitch. Considering Gerrard spent most of the game in the middle of the pitch anyway, it's flawed before it starts.

Bobby Robson ditched the 4-4-2 in Italia 90, after a poor start, and it seemed to work okay for him, but then again he was a manager who actually thought on his feet, and actually cared what happened to England, god rest his soul.

[Fray Bentos is God!]

If you play 4-4-2 you need good wingers, and stretch the game down the sides of the pitch. Considering Gerrard spent most of the game in the middle of the pitch anyway, it's flawed before it starts.

Bobby Robson ditched the 4-4-2 in Italia 90, after a poor start, and it seemed to work okay for him, but then again he was a manager who actually thought on his feet, and actually cared what happened to England, god rest his soul.

The odd thing was... Capello was, even in qualifiers. Christ. Even in the friendlies!!!

Which amazes me more about last night.

[Neil Ravenscroft]

Pretty much what you just said Gaz, although I might be inclined to stick with Lampard instead of Milner based on the fact Lampard should be able to play a more natural role if Gerrard is out of the midfield equation. I assume you had Milner as a center mid with Barry , and Cole wide ?

There are other options though, if he insists with sticking with 4-4-2, Crouch must play, with either Rooney, or Defoe. Crouch did nothing wrong before the World cup. He seemed to be a big part of Cappello's plans, I find it hard to understand why it has changed so much. I understand Crouch has only scored goals against weak opposition , blah blah bloody blah. Wtf are Algeria and the USA ? Get it Fabio ? Crouch isn't the most gifted footballer, but just seeing the size of him scares the life out of teams, he scores goals, which is quite a big plus I would say.

The main point is, why wait until the World Cup starts to start changing it all round. It makes no sense.

Aye bud, Milner down the middle. Though would also be tempted for Lampard and give him one more chance that he isn't an international duffer in finals.

Adam said something along the lines of that he witnessed the death of the international 4-4-2 last night, in most ways, I'm inclined to agree.

Despite him having a poor end to the season, I'd play Carrick ahead of Lampard, purely because he knows how to pick a pass. Use Milner to give you width, as he at least can cross the ball, unlike Wright-Phillips or the empty space that played there last night and use Joe Cole for his creativity. I'd go 4 2 3 1

James (did nothing wrong)

Johnson (no alternative), Dawson (Carragher is wading through treacle), Upson (despite a poor season, he's twice as quick as the alternatives) A Cole

Barry, Carrick

Gerrard, Joe Cole, Milner

Rooney

[Duke]

Joe Cole as to start on the left with Gerrard up behind Rooney , Capello simply as to go 4 4 1 1
I did say the right side of midfield would be a weakness , we are missing Beckham more than many realized

James

Johnson . Dawson - Terry - A Cole

Lennon - Lampard - Barry - J Cole

Gerrard

Rooney

[Stu]

Whilst part of me would like to swap all 10 outfield players just to prove a point, I know we can't so I'd go down a Venables route personally... 4-3-2-1

James
Johnson - Dawson - Terry - A Cole
Milner - Lampard - Barry
Gerrard - Cole
Rooney

Get Barry to sit, Milner to work hard and Lampard to get forward, knowing he still has two others behind him.

Gerrard told to get on the ball and dictate play, Cole told to do whatever he likes and Rooney told if he comes into his own half he'll be subbed.

I doubt he'll do that... At a worst, I'd like to see a 4-4-1-1 with Cole on for Heskey, moving Cole to wide left and Gerrard behind Rooney.

[PT]

James
Johnson Terry Upson Cole
Barry Carrick
Cole Gerrard
Defoe Crouch

Slovenia don't play wih wingers, so our width would need to be provided by Johnson and Cole.

Testicles to Beckanbauer and if needs be we play long to Crouch with Cole, Gerrard and Defoe picking up the second ball.

Last night's 0-0 "defeat" was down to a mental attitude, so a load of fresh players with nothing to fear (Lamps, Rooney etc got us in this mess) should mean we'll be OK.

[Magic Man Fan]

Whilst part of me would like to swap all 10 outfield players just to prove a point, I know we can't so I'd go down a Venables route personally... 4-3-2-1

James
Johnson - Dawson - Terry - A Cole
Milner - Lampard - Barry
Gerrard - Cole
Rooney

Get Barry to sit, Milner to work hard and Lampard to get forward, knowing he still has two others behind him.

Gerrard told to get on the ball and dictate play, Cole told to do whatever he likes and Rooney told if he comes into his own half he'll be subbed.

I doubt he'll do that... At a worst, I'd like to see a 4-4-1-1 with Cole on for Heskey, moving Cole to wide left and Gerrard behind Rooney.

Snap. Players in places they are familiar with and giving the right balance of creativity and "energy" (snigger) in midfield to create. Capello should just go for it, then if they turn in another awful performance they can't come out with lame excuses that they don't play there for their club.

Capello may be stubborn but he did say after the match last night that it's time for change, and I don't think he meant just a change of players.

[priestley_saddler]

Team would be: James, Johnson, A Cole, Terry, Dawson/Upson, Barry, Lampard, Lennon, J Cole, Gerrard, Rooney.

I think most people would go with that line-up, but the question is how do you play them. The options are almost endless in midfield and attack you could do any of the following

-----------------Barry---------------
Lennon, Lampard, Gerrard, Cole
----------------Rooney-------------- four attacking midfielders

Lennon, Lampard, Barry, Cole/Gerrard
--------------Cole/Gerrard----------------
-----------------Rooney-------------------- probable best

Lampard, Barry, Gerrard
Lennon----------------Cole
------------Rooney--------- aka Chelsea

[saddlersam]

Capello breaks with tradition. Upson to start:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8751502.stm

[saddlersam]

Right call to bring the experience of Upson in.

My team, for the record:

James,
G.Johnson (because we have to), Terry, Upson, A.Cole,
Lennon (see Johnson), Barry, Lampard, J.Cole,
Gerrard,
Rooney.

Lampard has been terrible but should be better off with Gerrard further up. Milner as a sub for Lampard if he continues with his poor displays and Milner is fit and ready. I don't want Milner on either flank, centre or nothing for me.

We debate and debate but the simplicity of it all is that if the above team (and any subs used) cannot beat Slovenia, we deserve to be coming home.

[leics_saddler]

We debate and debate but the simplicity of it all is that if the above team (and any subs used) cannot beat Slovenia, we deserve to be coming home.

Indeed.

[Pedagogue]

My team, for the record:

James,
G.Johnson (because we have to), Terry, Upson, A.Cole,
Lennon (see Johnson), Barry, Lampard, J.Cole,
Gerrard,
Rooney.

I agree with that starting eleven but I would be inclined to start with an "inverted Christmas tree" formation, so beloved of Terry Venables:-

James
Johnson, Upson, Terry, A.Cole
Lennon, Barry, J.Cole
Gerrard, Lampard
Rooney

Gerrard and Lampard are outstanding players at top club level but they should be released from Capello's tactical shackles to do what they both do best, i.e. arrive late from deeper positions and have a crack at goal. Rooney should be told to stop chasing back and running round like a blue-a***d fly and concentrating instead on upsetting the Slovenian defence.

[philthesaddler]

First things first, I'd drop Rooney. No one player is bigger than the team, and no one should be allowed to put in a performance like Rooneys which was low of skill, and even lower on effort. He needs to be taught a lesson and have his ego taken down a peg or two, he needs to be shown that the team can still perform without him and that he isnt the be all and end all.

I'd be tempted to give Crouch and Defoe a start up front together, Joe Cole on the left, Gerrard and Barry in the middle and Lennon or Milner on the right. I dont believe Lampard deserves his place.

[SheffieldSaddler]

Whilst part of me would like to swap all 10 outfield players just to prove a point, I know we can't so I'd go down a Venables route personally... 4-3-2-1

James
Johnson - Dawson - Terry - A Cole
Milner - Lampard - Barry
Gerrard - Cole
Rooney

Get Barry to sit, Milner to work hard and Lampard to get forward, knowing he still has two others behind him.

Gerrard told to get on the ball and dictate play, Cole told to do whatever he likes and Rooney told if he comes into his own half he'll be subbed.

I doubt he'll do that... At a worst, I'd like to see a 4-4-1-1 with Cole on for Heskey, moving Cole to wide left and Gerrard behind Rooney.

Snap. Players in places they are familiar with and giving the right balance of creativity and "energy" (snigger) in midfield to create. Capello should just go for it, then if they turn in another awful performance they can't come out with lame excuses that they don't play there for their club.

Capello may be stubborn but he did say after the match last night that it's time for change, and I don't think he meant just a change of players.

Agree, but would have Upson instead of Dawson.

Anyone with half off brain should realise that the reason Lampard doesnt play his best for England is because he is not played in the right position.
How can a player who as scored 20+ goals in last 5 seasons suddenly be rubbish?
Exactly!

[Neil Ravenscroft]

Whilst part of me would like to swap all 10 outfield players just to prove a point, I know we can't so I'd go down a Venables route personally... 4-3-2-1

James
Johnson - Dawson - Terry - A Cole
Milner - Lampard - Barry
Gerrard - Cole
Rooney

Get Barry to sit, Milner to work hard and Lampard to get forward, knowing he still has two others behind him.

Gerrard told to get on the ball and dictate play, Cole told to do whatever he likes and Rooney told if he comes into his own half he'll be subbed.

I doubt he'll do that... At a worst, I'd like to see a 4-4-1-1 with Cole on for Heskey, moving Cole to wide left and Gerrard behind Rooney.

Snap. Players in places they are familiar with and giving the right balance of creativity and "energy" (snigger) in midfield to create. Capello should just go for it, then if they turn in another awful performance they can't come out with lame excuses that they don't play there for their club.

Capello may be stubborn but he did say after the match last night that it's time for change, and I don't think he meant just a change of players.

Agree, but would have Upson instead of Dawson.

Anyone with half off brain should realise that the reason Lampard doesnt play his best for England is because he is not played in the right position.
How can a player who as scored 20+ goals in last 5 seasons suddenly be rubbish?
Exactly!

And there I was, thinking he was a midfielder. Face up to it, he's another John Barnes, World beater at club level, donkey with three legs at internaional level

[We-ARE-Walsall]

I don't think you can even talk about Lampard in the same breath as John Barnes, Barnes was a truly world class player, absolute genius, without doubt one of the best players I have ever seen play live. Okay I'm not old enough to remember Best and co.

His performances for England were always worse at Wembley, where he was slated from start to finish by the cockney toss pots who filled it.

[Neil Ravenscroft]

I don't think you can even talk about Lampard in the same breath as John Barnes, Barnes was a truly world class player, absolute genius, without doubt one of the best players I have ever seen play live. Okay I'm not old enough to remember Best and co.

His performances for England were always worse at Wembley, where he was slated from start to finish by the cockney toss pots who filled it.

Whereas, it would seem, in the world of Sheff, Lampard is some sort of genius superhero whose efforts at playing at International level are thwarted by Managers playing the central midfielder in the unfamiliar role of central midfielder, so he looses all his power to the extent all his corners hit the first defender?

[We-ARE-Walsall]

I don't think you can even talk about Lampard in the same breath as John Barnes, Barnes was a truly world class player, absolute genius, without doubt one of the best players I have ever seen play live. Okay I'm not old enough to remember Best and co.

His performances for England were always worse at Wembley, where he was slated from start to finish by the cockney toss pots who filled it.

Whereas, it would seem, in the world of Sheff, Lampard is some sort of genius superhero whose efforts at playing at International level are thwarted by Managers playing the central midfielder in the unfamiliar role of central midfielder, so he looses all his power to the extent all his corners hit the first defender?

That's Sheff, I'd defend Lampard in as much as he was no worse than anyone else the other night, that's it. Scholes retired from International football far to early, the same as Gerrard is now, he was moved around to accomodate Lampard, when in reality, Lampard has never been in the same class as Scholes, at International, or club level. Okay Scholes is finished now, but even now we still seem to have to accomodate Lampard, when the team should be built around the best players (Rooney, and Gerrard) Gerrard wont make another World cup, what a complete waste of a talent he has been.

[Stu]

Anyone with half off brain should realise that the reason Lampard doesnt play his best for England is because he is not played in the right position.
How can a player who as scored 20+ goals in last 5 seasons suddenly be rubbish?
Exactly!

He hasn't suddenly become rubbish, he has always been gash for England. :lol:

[SheffieldSaddler]

I don't think you can even talk about Lampard in the same breath as John Barnes, Barnes was a truly world class player, absolute genius, without doubt one of the best players I have ever seen play live. Okay I'm not old enough to remember Best and co.

His performances for England were always worse at Wembley, where he was slated from start to finish by the cockney toss pots who filled it.

Whereas, it would seem, in the world of Sheff, Lampard is some sort of genius superhero whose efforts at playing at International level are thwarted by Managers playing the central midfielder in the unfamiliar role of central midfielder, so he looses all his power to the extent all his corners hit the first defender?

The bloke is a genius alright, played in the right position.
I am sure you will understand Neil, everyone makes the odd mistake in a football match.
But lets be honest, it is never as bad as your gaff that you made mate!
:wink:

[Fray Bentos is God!]

I don't think you can even talk about Lampard in the same breath as John Barnes, Barnes was a truly world class player, absolute genius, without doubt one of the best players I have ever seen play live. Okay I'm not old enough to remember Best and co.

His performances for England were always worse at Wembley, where he was slated from start to finish by the cockney toss pots who filled it.

Whereas, it would seem, in the world of Sheff, Lampard is some sort of genius superhero whose efforts at playing at International level are thwarted by Managers playing the central midfielder in the unfamiliar role of central midfielder, so he looses all his power to the extent all his corners hit the first defender?

The bloke is a genius alright, played in the right position.
I am sure you will understand Neil, everyone makes the odd mistake in a football match.
But lets be honest, it is never as bad as your gaff that you made mate!
:wink:

You mean central midfield? :?

He even admits that he's a midfielder on the ITV diddler before the game.

[latviancheese]

Great when you see him play for Chelsea yes, mind you ive yet to see Gerrard play like he does for Liverpool either...

[Neil Ravenscroft]

I don't think you can even talk about Lampard in the same breath as John Barnes, Barnes was a truly world class player, absolute genius, without doubt one of the best players I have ever seen play live. Okay I'm not old enough to remember Best and co.

His performances for England were always worse at Wembley, where he was slated from start to finish by the cockney toss pots who filled it.

Whereas, it would seem, in the world of Sheff, Lampard is some sort of genius superhero whose efforts at playing at International level are thwarted by Managers playing the central midfielder in the unfamiliar role of central midfielder, so he looses all his power to the extent all his corners hit the first defender?

The bloke is a genius alright, played in the right position.
I am sure you will understand Neil, everyone makes the odd mistake in a football match.
But lets be honest, it is never as bad as your gaff that you made mate!
:wink:

I'm still waiting to hear how come central midfield is out of position for a central midfielder!

[Neuromantic]

I would go:

------------James--------------

Johnson Terry Upson A.Cole

------Barry------Carrick--------

Lennon----Gerrard------J.Cole

------------Rooney--------------

[SheffieldSaddler]

I'm still waiting to hear how come central midfield is out of position for a central midfielder!

Let me explain in simple terms for you Neil, so you will understand.
In football, a player in central midfield may have various roles, although he is still classed as a central midfield player.
For example in the England squad, players like Barry and Carrick fulfil different central midfield roles than players like Gerrard and what should be Lampard.
i.e Carrick and Barry are more defensive.
If you want Lampard to produce is best for England, which I am sure you and everyone does, he should be playing in the role he does for Chelsea.
That is, given unlimited freedom to get into dangerous positions from the central midfield role, hence why he has such a successful goal ratio at club level.
I hope you are following so far Neil.
At Chelsea, players like Mikel, make up for Lampard doing this by playing a more defensive role to counter Lampards more attacking role.
In England the Mikel role would be left to Barry or Carrick.
If you need anymore help in understanding the above, let me know.

[PINNACLE]

I'm still waiting to hear how come central midfield is out of position for a central midfielder!

Let me explain in simple terms for you Neil, so you will understand.
In football, a player in central midfield may have various roles, although he is still classed as a central midfield player.
For example in the England squad, players like Barry and Carrick fulfil different central midfield roles than players like Gerrard and what should be Lampard.
i.e Carrick and Barry are more defensive.
If you want Lampard to produce is best for England, which I am sure you and everyone does, he should be playing in the role he does for Chelsea.
That is, given unlimited freedom to get into dangerous positions from the central midfield role, hence why he has such a successful goal ratio at club level.
I hope you are following so far Neil.
At Chelsea, players like Mikel, make up for Lampard doing this by playing a more defensive role to counter Lampards more attacking role.
In England the Mikel role would be left to Barry or Carrick.
If you need anymore help in understanding the above, let me know.

Lets hope he doesn't have to take a penalty then. :lol:

[Fray Bentos is God!]

I'm still waiting to hear how come central midfield is out of position for a central midfielder!

Let me explain in simple terms for you Neil, so you will understand.
In football, a player in central midfield may have various roles, although he is still classed as a central midfield player.
For example in the England squad, players like Barry and Carrick fulfil different central midfield roles than players like Gerrard and what should be Lampard.
i.e Carrick and Barry are more defensive.
If you want Lampard to produce is best for England, which I am sure you and everyone does, he should be playing in the role he does for Chelsea.
That is, given unlimited freedom to get into dangerous positions from the central midfield role, hence why he has such a successful goal ratio at club level.
I hope you are following so far Neil.
At Chelsea, players like Mikel, make up for Lampard doing this by playing a more defensive role to counter Lampards more attacking role.
In England the Mikel role would be left to Barry or Carrick.
If you need anymore help in understanding the above, let me know.

What? You mean like having a Gareth Barry type player next to him? Like on Saturday? The Mikel role taken up by Gareth Barry? In central midfield? For England?