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England v Croatia

Walsall supporters react to England's despairs - as they happened. No text speak, please.
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Duke
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:52 pm

PJD wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:What a complete JOKE. Some of the complete tosh written in that was beyond belief.
So Michael Owen (1 year younger than Lampard) and over 30 when the next World cup takes place is finished then as well as Lampard?
Lets right everyone off over 30 shall we?

Oh, but unless your name is Beckham who has lived on a reputation for the last 2 World Cups and European Championships, who deserve a 100th cap?
So Neil, what was Beckhams contribution to our last 3 major tournments?
And last night, besides the cross to Crouch he was utterly useless.

Open your eyes.


Beckham contributed far more to England during the last world cup than Lampard - simple as


agreed , Lampard is a good club player can't deny that, but for me he as never done it a international level.
I wish Beckham would return to England and play in the premiership he could still do a job for us imo.

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Plastic Hawk
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:54 pm

KJC wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
Registered Saddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:Have you actually noticed that you are in a minority of excactly one?


He hasn't. That's why Hope keep ending up in the bottom two.


God, he doesn't actually like them as well, does he? They are really, really crud - on a par with Bridge last night.


I haven't had time to read through this, or the countless other England threads, but I'm glad you've mentioned him.

Bridges performance ranks right up there (or should it be down there?) as one of the most inept full-back performances I have ever seen at any level.


I've been trying to avoid talking about individuals, but Bridge was dire. However (in no particular order), Cole, Carson, Defoe, Lampard, Gerrard, Wright-Phillips, Richards, Barry, Lescott and Campbell probably also fit into that category - and Crouch's flick-ons might have looked good, but he has no idea where they're going to go, so you can't really blame his team-mates for not reading them (he's off the "dire" list because he scored, Beckham because he set him up, Bent because he was only on fifteen minutes). You can't really get away with eleven players massively underperforming in a Sunday League game, let alone in an International.

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KJC
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:59 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:I'll put the front page link back up for you, then. About the only thing that stopped Micah Richards's absentee performance at right back being the worst I've ever seen at International level is the fact that Michael Bridge's was, undoubtably, easily and ineptly the worst by far.

http://upthesaddlers.com/wp/archives/20 ... t-mcclown/


Good report, Neil.
I agree with most of that!!!

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KJC
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:05 pm

Plastic Hawk wrote:I've been trying to avoid talking about individuals, but Bridge was dire. However (in no particular order), Cole, Carson, Defoe, Lampard, Gerrard, Wright-Phillips, Richards, Barry, Lescott and Campbell probably also fit into that category - and Crouch's flick-ons might have looked good, but he has no idea where they're going to go, so you can't really blame his team-mates for not reading them (he's off the "dire" list because he scored, Beckham because he set him up, Bent because he was only on fifteen minutes). You can't really get away with eleven players massively underperforming in a Sunday League game, let alone in an International.


I agree with most of that too.

Regarding Crouch's flick-ons though... I think the runs being made from SWP and J.Cole in behind him, were probably as bad as they could have been.

I thought that most of the flick-ons went to the right places, it was just that the runs being made were to the wrong places.

If that makes sense.

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:11 pm

You can add Owen to the list of those that will be off before the next World Cup as well. I thought he'd still be under thirty, but he won't be.

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KJC
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:14 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:You can add Owen to the list of those that will be off before the next World Cup as well. I thought he'd still be under thirty, but he won't be.


If Owen can stay injury free for a sustained period of time, and get some games and goals under his belt, then I still think he has an England future.

Big ask, though.

latviancheese
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:19 pm

Who does wayne bridge play for these days? :?

leics_saddler
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:20 pm

KJC wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:You can add Owen to the list of those that will be off before the next World Cup as well. I thought he'd still be under thirty, but he won't be.


If Owen can stay injury free for a sustained period of time, and get some games and goals under his belt, then I still think he has an England future.

Big ask, though.


Indeed, this is why Walcott needs to make the step up from U21 level now.
I forgot to add earlier that Heskey is still capable at international level as a very experienced striker (though a very different type from Owen) providing he recovers from his own injury problems.

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Plastic Hawk
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:28 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:You can add Owen to the list of those that will be off before the next World Cup as well. I thought he'd still be under thirty, but he won't be.


You do need some experience though. Players can't be written off just because they're a year or two the wrong side of 30. Gary Neville (who I despise when he plays for United) should be a candidate for captain, not thrown on the scrapheap because he'll be 35 at the next World Cup. If he's still playing well enough to be in the side then he should be selected. Obviously Owen should play too - he'll more than likely be our record international goalscorer by the time of the next World Cup - and still only 30 (and six months).

Micah Richards has plenty of potential, but he looked out of his depth yesterday because he just doesn't have the positional sense he needs yet and his pace isn't enough to dig him out of as many holes at international level as it does or Man City.

Of the players on display yesterday the only ones whose international careers should definitely be over are Beckham and Campbell. Some of the rest should go to the back of the queue as far as selection goes, but with good performances on a consistent basis for their clubs there's no reason why they can't come back.

Also, you've written Carson off on the back of one (admittedly very poor) match, despite his inexperience and youth. Don't you remember some of Seaman's early games for England after Shilton's retirement? If we are going to bring through the next generation of young players then we need to be patient with them, just like we say about the kids DD is bringing through at Walsall. Carson may or may not be first choice in five years (my guess is still that he will be), but he'll have more than two caps, of that I'm sure. Keepers make mistakes just like other players and they're a part of the team just like other players, not an extra you have on the side. I notice that you don't say Richards should never play for England again, yet the only real difference between the quality of their performances yesterday was that Carson wore a yellow shirt for his and Richards a white one.

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kshammer
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:44 pm

I thought Neville should've been made captain after Becks lost it. To me Terry and Gerrard are great club players but had done nothing at international level to warrant the captaincy. I saw Neville as captain for 2-4 years while one of those two tried to prove they were worthy of it.

Oh and can I say KJC's avatar is the best ever.

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KJC
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:49 pm

kshammer wrote:I thought Neville should've been made captain after Becks lost it. To me Terry and Gerrard are great club players but had done nothing at international level to warrant the captaincy. I saw Neville as captain for 2-4 years while one of those two tried to prove they were worthy of it.


I agree

kshammer wrote:Oh and can I say KJC's avatar is the best ever.


I agree :D


Thanks

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Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:11 pm

bangsection wrote:Happy with last night's result and here's why:

1. The best team won.

2. The FA might actually learn something from the botched appointment of McLaren.
3. Europe can enjoy a football tournament without the In-Ger-Lund pondlife despoiling their lovely countries and treating bemused locals to 'Ten Austrian Bombers' whilst urinating in a fountain.

4. England can enjoy a summer without the frenzied, over-hyped circus that surrounds this consistently average team of millionaires. No WAGs. No ubiquitous St George's flags. No patronising '10 things you didn't know about Romania' articles in The Sun. No attacks on Italian/Turkish/Greek restaurants when we lose to Italy/Turkey/Greece. No soul-searching when we get knocked out. Just a football tournament that we can watch because we like watching football.

5. In December, the FA finally decide whether to revive the mothballed National Football Centre at Burton (shelved because of the overspend on Wembley). Our failure to qualify for this tournament should at least make it extremely difficult for the FA to argue that we don't need a facility to make our younger players better.

Doubtful, as the man given the job of finding a replacement is Brian Barwick. The same Brian Barwick who oversaw the appointment of McClown. His reward for failing to get the right man........ ONE MORE CHANCE! Fantastic. :roll:

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SheffieldSaddler
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:48 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:You can add Owen to the list of those that will be off before the next World Cup as well. I thought he'd still be under thirty, but he won't be.


Front page facts incorrect again!
My god, what a surprise! :roll:
Apology would be greatly accepted!

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SheffieldSaddler
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:49 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:Match reaction

http://www.steveroy.com/walsall/


What a complete JOKE. Some of the complete tosh written in that was beyond belief.
So Michael Owen (1 year younger than Lampard) and over 30 when the next World cup takes place is finished then as well as Lampard?
Lets right everyone off over 30 shall we?

Oh, but unless your name is Beckham who has lived on a reputation for the last 2 World Cups and European Championships, who deserve a 100th cap?
So Neil, what was Beckhams contribution to our last 3 major tournments?
And last night, besides the cross to Crouch he was utterly useless.

Open your eyes.


Have you actually noticed that you are in a minority of excactly one?


So answer the question on Beckham then.

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KJC
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:54 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:You can add Owen to the list of those that will be off before the next World Cup as well. I thought he'd still be under thirty, but he won't be.


Front page facts incorrect again!
My god, what a surprise! :roll:
Apology would be greatly accepted!



Apology for what???
Who to????

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Magic Man Fan
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:55 pm

KJC wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:You can add Owen to the list of those that will be off before the next World Cup as well. I thought he'd still be under thirty, but he won't be.


Front page facts incorrect again!
My god, what a surprise! :roll:
Apology would be greatly accepted!



Apology for what???
Who to????


Sheff the great God of course. He who rules the world and must be obeyed.

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:07 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:
KJC wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:You can add Owen to the list of those that will be off before the next World Cup as well. I thought he'd still be under thirty, but he won't be.


Front page facts incorrect again!
My god, what a surprise! :roll:
Apology would be greatly accepted!



Apology for what???
Who to????


Sheff the great God of course. He who rules the world and must be obeyed.


It is almost surreally wierd, isn't it?

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Magic Man Fan
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:09 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:
KJC wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:You can add Owen to the list of those that will be off before the next World Cup as well. I thought he'd still be under thirty, but he won't be.


Front page facts incorrect again!
My god, what a surprise! :roll:
Apology would be greatly accepted!



Apology for what???
Who to????


Sheff the great God of course. He who rules the world and must be obeyed.


It is almost surreally wierd, isn't it?


I think you should apologise Neil




















































but only when Sheff apologises for the bee in his bonnet and being a complete @rse all the time. :D

About the same time I will apologise for being arrogant. :D

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Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:10 pm

I think that both Gerrard and Lampard thought that they cuold carry out Beckham's role,
the problem is neither of them is up to it, so start the search now for a player who can pass accurately, deliver meaningful crosses,has better than average control of the ball and will chase back as Beckham did in his prime.

I think that the famed 'old guard' midfield have had their day, they have let the fans down too often so get rid and whoever takes over should start re-building as soon as possible

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SheffieldSaddler
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:32 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:
KJC wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:You can add Owen to the list of those that will be off before the next World Cup as well. I thought he'd still be under thirty, but he won't be.


Front page facts incorrect again!
My god, what a surprise! :roll:
Apology would be greatly accepted!



Apology for what???
Who to????


Sheff the great God of course. He who rules the world and must be obeyed.


It is almost surreally wierd, isn't it?


Whatever.
You know full well what trash you right on the front page.

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Magic Man Fan
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:59 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:
KJC wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:You can add Owen to the list of those that will be off before the next World Cup as well. I thought he'd still be under thirty, but he won't be.


Front page facts incorrect again!
My god, what a surprise! :roll:
Apology would be greatly accepted!



Apology for what???
Who to????


Sheff the great God of course. He who rules the world and must be obeyed.


It is almost surreally wierd, isn't it?


Whatever.
You know full well what trash you right on the front page.


At least he doesn't write it on every page. :P

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loop
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Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:18 pm

Knorr have released a new red and white Oxo cube to commemorate England's Euro qualifying campaign.





















It's called the laughing stock !!!!!!!!!!!!



:oops: IGMC

latviancheese
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Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:11 am

three lions on the shirt are being replaced by three tampons to represent the worst period we've ever had.

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:07 am

SheffieldSaddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:
KJC wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:You can add Owen to the list of those that will be off before the next World Cup as well. I thought he'd still be under thirty, but he won't be.


Front page facts incorrect again!
My god, what a surprise! :roll:
Apology would be greatly accepted!



Apology for what???
Who to????


Sheff the great God of course. He who rules the world and must be obeyed.


It is almost surreally wierd, isn't it?


Whatever.
You know full well what trash you right on the front page.


Simple answer then - don't read it! (Mind you, from some of the misrepresentations, I don't know if you do!)

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kshammer
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Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:00 am

Ok so Owen will be over 30 as well as Lampard.

The difference is Owen is one of the few players who actually delivers for England. He does his job... scores goals... scores important goals in big games. Even when he's over 30 he'll still sniff a goal out (injuries permitting).

Lampard doesn't. He's rubbish in most games... why? Because without his Chelsea team, who all revolve around getting the best out of him (ie doing his running), he is poor.

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Magic Man Fan
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Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:09 am

kshammer wrote:Ok so Owen will be over 30 as well as Lampard.

The difference is Owen is one of the few players who actually delivers for England. He does his job... scores goals... scores important goals in big games. Even when he's over 30 he'll still sniff a goal out (injuries permitting).

Lampard doesn't. He's rubbish in most games... why? Because without his Chelsea team, who all revolve around getting the best out of him (ie doing his running), he is poor.


That's not the reason. He's because he's too similar to Gerrard. All good attacking midfielders need someone to do the running and break up the play.

We finally got there with Barry and Gerrard then he bottled it when it didn't work in one game. Barry and Gerrard or Barry and Lampard is far better than them both together just like Parker, Carrick or Hargreaves would have been better if Sven had chose them more often.

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:02 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:
kshammer wrote:Ok so Owen will be over 30 as well as Lampard.

The difference is Owen is one of the few players who actually delivers for England. He does his job... scores goals... scores important goals in big games. Even when he's over 30 he'll still sniff a goal out (injuries permitting).

Lampard doesn't. He's rubbish in most games... why? Because without his Chelsea team, who all revolve around getting the best out of him (ie doing his running), he is poor.


That's not the reason. He's because he's too similar to Gerrard. All good attacking midfielders need someone to do the running and break up the play.

We finally got there with Barry and Gerrard then he bottled it when it didn't work in one game. Barry and Gerrard or Barry and Lampard is far better than them both together just like Parker, Carrick or Hargreaves would have been better if Sven had chose them more often.


Precisely. It's about getting the balance right, not picking the best 11 individuals.

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Plastic Hawk
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Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:08 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:
kshammer wrote:Ok so Owen will be over 30 as well as Lampard.

The difference is Owen is one of the few players who actually delivers for England. He does his job... scores goals... scores important goals in big games. Even when he's over 30 he'll still sniff a goal out (injuries permitting).

Lampard doesn't. He's rubbish in most games... why? Because without his Chelsea team, who all revolve around getting the best out of him (ie doing his running), he is poor.


That's not the reason. He's because he's too similar to Gerrard. All good attacking midfielders need someone to do the running and break up the play.

We finally got there with Barry and Gerrard then he bottled it when it didn't work in one game. Barry and Gerrard or Barry and Lampard is far better than them both together just like Parker, Carrick or Hargreaves would have been better if Sven had chose them more often.


Precisely. It's about getting the balance right, not picking the best 11 individuals.


Does that include the balance between youth and experience? Or do you still want to chuck out any player over the age of 27 and 5 months? :roll:

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:38 pm

Plastic Hawk wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:
kshammer wrote:Ok so Owen will be over 30 as well as Lampard.

The difference is Owen is one of the few players who actually delivers for England. He does his job... scores goals... scores important goals in big games. Even when he's over 30 he'll still sniff a goal out (injuries permitting).

Lampard doesn't. He's rubbish in most games... why? Because without his Chelsea team, who all revolve around getting the best out of him (ie doing his running), he is poor.


That's not the reason. He's because he's too similar to Gerrard. All good attacking midfielders need someone to do the running and break up the play.

We finally got there with Barry and Gerrard then he bottled it when it didn't work in one game. Barry and Gerrard or Barry and Lampard is far better than them both together just like Parker, Carrick or Hargreaves would have been better if Sven had chose them more often.


Precisely. It's about getting the balance right, not picking the best 11 individuals.


Does that include the balance between youth and experience? Or do you still want to chuck out any player over the age of 27 and 5 months? :roll:


I'm not saying that they should be left out, but, let's face facts, with several regulars in the side being 31/32 by the time of the next World Cup, loss of form and injury could well be taking their toll, especially with players like Owen, who depend on pace. Forward (and, indeed, succession) planning should be the name of the game.

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