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England v Croatia

Walsall supporters react to England's despairs - as they happened. No text speak, please.
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mikey
 
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England v Croatia

Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:39 am

So we get a second chance.

I've got to say I am totally shocked that we are still in this competition. It's still got the potential to go the shape of the pear, but we have the opportunity to qualify now.

I still think we are going to struggle on Wednesday, and my faith in McClown hasn't been restored in the slightest, but we could still blag it.

I hope we do :D


Come on England

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Duke
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Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:37 am

A draw needed against a team thats already qualified , surely we can't mess this up . :?

can we

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Whitti Steve
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Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:43 am

McClaren will be in church today, his prayers were well and truly answered last night!

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swiftyboy
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Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:03 am

Duke wrote:A draw needed against a team thats already qualified , surely we can't mess this up . :?

can we


We are talking about England here Duke, so YES, we CAN mess it up!!!

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Gaz the Train
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Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:38 am

I know this is going to sound bad and people might disagree, And let me quantify this by first saying I hope we do qualify. but in some respects, I hope we don't qualify, scraping through in this manner is only ever going to be papering over the cracks, McClown will stay on because its job done, but no, it should have been done ages ago without any of this will we wont we hanging over us. Ideal situation is we qualify, McClaren goes, and of his own accord, acknowledging that he is not up to the job, we bring in someone, anyone, that puts out the best England TEAM, not necessarily just the best 11 players, and gets the side gelling and playing. I just dread to think of what disasters lie ahead if McClaren does stay on. If I'm wrong and he brings home some silverware, i will apologise humbly and doff my cap to the man, but I just do not see it happening

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Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:03 pm

The fact is McClown should never have been put in charge and was never good enough to be an international manager. The main problem that seems to be overlooked oh so often now is that its the fossils at the FA who are and have turned our national team and its set up into the farce it is today.

It goes far beyond McClown and the starting eleven, its about the doddering old fools at the top who havent got a clue about what we need. :evil: :twisted:

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Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:10 pm

Gaz the Train wrote:I know this is going to sound bad and people might disagree, And let me quantify this by first saying I hope we do qualify. but in some respects, I hope we don't qualify, scraping through in this manner is only ever going to be papering over the cracks, McClown will stay on because its job done, but no, it should have been done ages ago without any of this will we wont we hanging over us. Ideal situation is we qualify, McClaren goes, and of his own accord, acknowledging that he is not up to the job, we bring in someone, anyone, that puts out the best England TEAM, not necessarily just the best 11 players, and gets the side gelling and playing. I just dread to think of what disasters lie ahead if McClaren does stay on. If I'm wrong and he brings home some silverware, i will apologise humbly and doff my cap to the man, but I just do not see it happening


I agree. I think, on balance, my desire to see England competing at Euro 2008 outweighs my wish to see McClaren removed ASAP and us get someone in who knows what he is doing. The only way McClaren will leave is if we lose to Croatia, but I really don't want that to happen. However, I just see us having a disastrous finals campaign next year and then he'll go anyway. Might as well get rid now, so Austria/Switzerland (should we get there) isn't a write-off before a ball is kicked.

Like you say, though, if he has a lobotomy between now and the summer and gets us to do well, then full credit to him, I'll eat my words. Unfortunately, I can't see it happening.

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Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:42 pm

waffle wrote:The fact is McClown should never have been put in charge and was never good enough to be an international manager. The main problem that seems to be overlooked oh so often now is that its the fossils at the FA who are and have turned our national team and its set up into the farce it is today.

It goes far beyond McClown and the starting eleven, its about the doddering old fools at the top who haven't got a clue about what we need
. :evil: :twisted:


That, I do agree on, which is what I mean, if we do qualify it will just paper over the cracks that are there, the whole organization needs a radical change, with forward thinking people at the helm and fresh ideas and not just on the playing side of it. Wembley was a disaster, great ground but an absolute embarrassment in its construction. The academy at Burton, whats going on with that? because there is a great idea and useful facility that has been put on the back burner becasue of cost. There are plenty of young dynamic people in football, sport in general and business with fresh ideas and new direction that can push OUR national sport, the game WE invented forward. So get rid of the dinosaurs and lets get radical

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Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:48 am

England will win.

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Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:55 pm

big baz 1 wrote:England will win.


We all hope so!

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Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:08 pm

We need to avoid defeat but if we go out and play for a draw it will more than likely come back and bit us and end up losing. I think that we should get the draw that we need but I also think that there needs to be a serious look at the set up in England.

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Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:52 pm

We'll win, no dount. And paper over the cracks until we get hopelessly thumped in Euro 08.

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Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:58 pm

Gaz the Train wrote:
waffle wrote:The fact is McClown should never have been put in charge and was never good enough to be an international manager. The main problem that seems to be overlooked oh so often now is that its the fossils at the FA who are and have turned our national team and its set up into the farce it is today.

It goes far beyond McClown and the starting eleven, its about the doddering old fools at the top who haven't got a clue about what we need
. :evil: :twisted:


That, I do agree on, which is what I mean, if we do qualify it will just paper over the cracks that are there, the whole organization needs a radical change, with forward thinking people at the helm and fresh ideas and not just on the playing side of it. Wembley was a disaster, great ground but an absolute embarrassment in its construction. The academy at Burton, whats going on with that? because there is a great idea and useful facility that has been put on the back burner becasue of cost. There are plenty of young dynamic people in football, sport in general and business with fresh ideas and new direction that can push OUR national sport, the game WE invented forward. So get rid of the dinosaurs and lets get radical


But, Gaz, the money for Burton went on building the montrosity that is Wembley, so that the entire middle tier can be filled with people on corporate freebies who don't turn up until 25 minutes into the second half and help ruin the atmosphere.

Personally, I'm on holiday during the finals next year and aren't bothered if we don't make it, so I hope in some ways we don't, just so the whole set up gets the root and branch shake up it needs - trouble is I don't think even that would be enough. What it really needs is fans to stop going, then, with the Wembley debts crippling them, they'd have to take some action.

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Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:08 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
Gaz the Train wrote:
waffle wrote:The fact is McClown should never have been put in charge and was never good enough to be an international manager. The main problem that seems to be overlooked oh so often now is that its the fossils at the FA who are and have turned our national team and its set up into the farce it is today.

It goes far beyond McClown and the starting eleven, its about the doddering old fools at the top who haven't got a clue about what we need
. :evil: :twisted:


That, I do agree on, which is what I mean, if we do qualify it will just paper over the cracks that are there, the whole organization needs a radical change, with forward thinking people at the helm and fresh ideas and not just on the playing side of it. Wembley was a disaster, great ground but an absolute embarrassment in its construction. The academy at Burton, whats going on with that? because there is a great idea and useful facility that has been put on the back burner becasue of cost. There are plenty of young dynamic people in football, sport in general and business with fresh ideas and new direction that can push OUR national sport, the game WE invented forward. So get rid of the dinosaurs and lets get radical


But, Gaz, the money for Burton went on building the montrosity that is Wembley, so that the entire middle tier can be filled with people on corporate freebies who don't turn up until 25 minutes into the second half and help ruin the atmosphere.

Personally, I'm on holiday during the finals next year and aren't bothered if we don't make it, so I hope in some ways we don't, just so the whole set up gets the root and branch shake up it needs - trouble is I don't think even that would be enough. What it really needs is fans to stop going, then, with the Wembley debts crippling them, they'd have to take some action.


That is exactly whats needed, but unlike me, many others suport theyre country no matter what. I cant see why, nothing to be proud of really is there.

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Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:21 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
Gaz the Train wrote:
waffle wrote:The fact is McClown should never have been put in charge and was never good enough to be an international manager. The main problem that seems to be overlooked oh so often now is that its the fossils at the FA who are and have turned our national team and its set up into the farce it is today.

It goes far beyond McClown and the starting eleven, its about the doddering old fools at the top who haven't got a clue about what we need
. :evil: :twisted:


That, I do agree on, which is what I mean, if we do qualify it will just paper over the cracks that are there, the whole organization needs a radical change, with forward thinking people at the helm and fresh ideas and not just on the playing side of it. Wembley was a disaster, great ground but an absolute embarrassment in its construction. The academy at Burton, whats going on with that? because there is a great idea and useful facility that has been put on the back burner becasue of cost. There are plenty of young dynamic people in football, sport in general and business with fresh ideas and new direction that can push OUR national sport, the game WE invented forward. So get rid of the dinosaurs and lets get radical


But, Gaz, the money for Burton went on building the montrosity that is Wembley, so that the entire middle tier can be filled with people on corporate freebies who don't turn up until 25 minutes into the second half and help ruin the atmosphere.

Personally, I'm on holiday during the finals next year and aren't bothered if we don't make it, so I hope in some ways we don't, just so the whole set up gets the root and branch shake up it needs - trouble is I don't think even that would be enough. What it really needs is fans to stop going, then, with the Wembley debts crippling them, they'd have to take some action.


Thats exactly my point Neil, money has been frittered away, and I seem to remember perhaps Adam Crozier saying that money was going to be used at grass roots and bringing through and promoting talent within the game, then instead its gets spent on corporate fat cats who don't give two hoots.

I have to say I'm really torn between wanting my England at that tournament for me to cheer on (I'd even drop my campaign of hate against McClaren if it helped, I have nothing personal against the guy and if he turned things round, then great) and Us not qualifying in order for the big post postmortem and hopefully the reshape that is needed. But like you say, would that happen, they will probably just commission a report into finding out why we failed, employ an octogenarian ex judge to compile a dossier and then say it was the managers fault we need to do this this and this and then watch as it never gets done.

On the point of fans not showing up, I think its an absolute disgrace that Wembley remains half full for games because business big wigs cant be bothered to get up of their fat behinds and go and watch games when honest football fans are either unable to get tickets, or priced out of going to matches, when there are spare seats that people know they are not going to use. The Fa have been clever in this knowing that come what may, they are going to get their money. I honestly fear for the future of our national game and I don't blame foreign players, if our own FA did enough to promote young british talent, then they would be in the top teams on merit, competing against the best players in the world without having to impose limits on how many foreigners can play, this is what we should concentrate on, not sitting there going "whinge whinge whinge, we dont have enough top english players anymore lets throw the foreigners out", Make our players better, give them facilities to become the best they can, and give us a team we can be proud of because they are talented, and hard working, young guys that want to be the best on the field, and not just famous because they look good in a copy of Grazia.

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Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:54 pm

RED 5 wrote:
big baz 1 wrote:England will win.


We all hope so!


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:23 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
Gaz the Train wrote:
waffle wrote:The fact is McClown should never have been put in charge and was never good enough to be an international manager. The main problem that seems to be overlooked oh so often now is that its the fossils at the FA who are and have turned our national team and its set up into the farce it is today.

It goes far beyond McClown and the starting eleven, its about the doddering old fools at the top who haven't got a clue about what we need
. :evil: :twisted:


That, I do agree on, which is what I mean, if we do qualify it will just paper over the cracks that are there, the whole organization needs a radical change, with forward thinking people at the helm and fresh ideas and not just on the playing side of it. Wembley was a disaster, great ground but an absolute embarrassment in its construction. The academy at Burton, whats going on with that? because there is a great idea and useful facility that has been put on the back burner becasue of cost. There are plenty of young dynamic people in football, sport in general and business with fresh ideas and new direction that can push OUR national sport, the game WE invented forward. So get rid of the dinosaurs and lets get radical


But, Gaz, the money for Burton went on building the montrosity that is Wembley, so that the entire middle tier can be filled with people on corporate freebies who don't turn up until 25 minutes into the second half and help ruin the atmosphere.

Personally, I'm on holiday during the finals next year and aren't bothered if we don't make it, so I hope in some ways we don't, just so the whole set up gets the root and branch shake up it needs - trouble is I don't think even that would be enough. What it really needs is fans to stop going, then, with the Wembley debts crippling them, they'd have to take some action.


Have you been? Because in my personal opinion, it is easily the best football stadium I have ever been to (much better than the Millennium Stadium). Yes it should have been built in Birmingham, yes the local area is a dump, yes it's a pain to get to and away from - but it is a fantastic football stadium, it actually takes your breath away the first time you sit in it.

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Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:31 pm

latviancheese wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
Gaz the Train wrote:
waffle wrote:The fact is McClown should never have been put in charge and was never good enough to be an international manager. The main problem that seems to be overlooked oh so often now is that its the fossils at the FA who are and have turned our national team and its set up into the farce it is today.

It goes far beyond McClown and the starting eleven, its about the doddering old fools at the top who haven't got a clue about what we need
. :evil: :twisted:


That, I do agree on, which is what I mean, if we do qualify it will just paper over the cracks that are there, the whole organization needs a radical change, with forward thinking people at the helm and fresh ideas and not just on the playing side of it. Wembley was a disaster, great ground but an absolute embarrassment in its construction. The academy at Burton, whats going on with that? because there is a great idea and useful facility that has been put on the back burner becasue of cost. There are plenty of young dynamic people in football, sport in general and business with fresh ideas and new direction that can push OUR national sport, the game WE invented forward. So get rid of the dinosaurs and lets get radical


But, Gaz, the money for Burton went on building the montrosity that is Wembley, so that the entire middle tier can be filled with people on corporate freebies who don't turn up until 25 minutes into the second half and help ruin the atmosphere.

Personally, I'm on holiday during the finals next year and aren't bothered if we don't make it, so I hope in some ways we don't, just so the whole set up gets the root and branch shake up it needs - trouble is I don't think even that would be enough. What it really needs is fans to stop going, then, with the Wembley debts crippling them, they'd have to take some action.


That is exactly whats needed, but unlike me, many others suport theyre country no matter what. I cant see why, nothing to be proud of really is there.


Do you support Walsall no matter what? Most of us do and most of us feel the same way about England. It's not about liking the players or the manager, it's about supporting your country and being proud to be English. I personally can't understand any different view point.

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Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:53 pm

Sorry, Cueball, but it doesn't matter how good it is, at £900 million and around 5 to 6 times the cost of the Millennium, it is a financial millstone around the neck of football in this country (and will be for many, many years to come) and that makes it a monstrosity in my book.

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Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:30 pm

3-0 England. But it could go desperately wrong. :?

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Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:49 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:it is a financial millstone around the neck of football in this country (and will be for many, many years to come)


I don't think people quite appreciate the lasting impact of the disaster that was the Wembley Stadium rebuild. For years and years everything will be tied up at Wembley - FA Cup semis, England internationals, and so on - further isolating rank and file fans in other parts of the country. In the mid-90s, attendances went as low as 20,000 for a friendly at Wembley. Can you imagine that happening in any other part of the country? With England becoming a team for London fans only again, I predict we will return to those days soon. In the meantime, we'll have to cope with a whole tier standing empty for all the play-off finals because none of the Club Wembley prawn sandwich brigade would dare mix it with the hoi polloi of the Football League. Still, so long as it looks pretty, that's ok then...

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Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:55 pm

2-1 to croatia with england scorinf in the 1st half then conceding 2 late goals :x

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Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:30 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:it is a financial millstone around the neck of football in this country (and will be for many, many years to come)


I don't think people quite appreciate the lasting impact of the disaster that was the Wembley Stadium rebuild. For years and years everything will be tied up at Wembley - FA Cup semis, England internationals, and so on - further isolating rank and file fans in other parts of the country. In the mid-90s, attendances went as low as 20,000 for a friendly at Wembley. Can you imagine that happening in any other part of the country? With England becoming a team for London fans only again, I predict we will return to those days soon. In the meantime, we'll have to cope with a whole tier standing empty for all the play-off finals because none of the Club Wembley prawn sandwich brigade would dare mix it with the hoi polloi of the Football League. Still, so long as it looks pretty, that's ok then...



Well said, why does it have to be in london? The most inaccesible city in the country.

To be honest, i dont see the need for a wembley at all, why cant they just go around the country like the last few years. We have enough nice grounds in this country, without having to build one that will only be used about 10 times a year.

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Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:10 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:it is a financial millstone around the neck of football in this country (and will be for many, many years to come)


I don't think people quite appreciate the lasting impact of the disaster that was the Wembley Stadium rebuild. For years and years everything will be tied up at Wembley - FA Cup semis, England internationals, and so on - further isolating rank and file fans in other parts of the country. In the mid-90s, attendances went as low as 20,000 for a friendly at Wembley. Can you imagine that happening in any other part of the country? With England becoming a team for London fans only again, I predict we will return to those days soon. In the meantime, we'll have to cope with a whole tier standing empty for all the play-off finals because none of the Club Wembley prawn sandwich brigade would dare mix it with the hoi polloi of the Football League. Still, so long as it looks pretty, that's ok then...


It's a good point. But it's also important that as a major footballing nation that we have a stadium of the highest order. When I go to Wembley it makes me proud to know that we have one of the best (if not the best) football stadiums in the world. I don't know whether you have been yet, but maybe it's just something you have to see in the flesh. And no offence, but England isn't a team for London fans. Every time I go down, the majority of fans seem to be from teams outside of London (we always see at least 10 other Saddlers!!). Join EnglandFans and you'll never have a problem getting a ticket, in fact I'm quite amazed how easy it is to get tickets starting from just £25.

I only wish it had been built in Birmingham....

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Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:23 pm

Cueball wrote:
Registered Saddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:it is a financial millstone around the neck of football in this country (and will be for many, many years to come)


I don't think people quite appreciate the lasting impact of the disaster that was the Wembley Stadium rebuild. For years and years everything will be tied up at Wembley - FA Cup semis, England internationals, and so on - further isolating rank and file fans in other parts of the country. In the mid-90s, attendances went as low as 20,000 for a friendly at Wembley. Can you imagine that happening in any other part of the country? With England becoming a team for London fans only again, I predict we will return to those days soon. In the meantime, we'll have to cope with a whole tier standing empty for all the play-off finals because none of the Club Wembley prawn sandwich brigade would dare mix it with the hoi polloi of the Football League. Still, so long as it looks pretty, that's ok then...


It's a good point. But it's also important that as a major footballing nation that we have a stadium of the highest order. When I go to Wembley it makes me proud to know that we have one of the best (if not the best) football stadiums in the world. I don't know whether you have been yet, but maybe it's just something you have to see in the flesh. And no offence, but England isn't a team for London fans. Every time I go down, the majority of fans seem to be from teams outside of London (we always see at least 10 other Saddlers!!). Join EnglandFans and you'll never have a problem getting a ticket, in fact I'm quite amazed how easy it is to get tickets starting from just £25.

I only wish it had been built in Birmingham....


I agree we need a flagship national stadium, I mean this is our national game......BUT the way in which it was managed was a joke and an embarrassment and they cost spiraled to the detriment of the academy in Burton, which as pioneers of football, is another vital facility we need. For me its not of great importance where it is, to be fair, lets not kid ourself and pretend it was going to be anywhere other than London. But I agree the financial burden of Wembley stadium is going to affect English football for many years, I really detest cup semi finals being played there, the Idea is to get to a Wembley FINAL, there is enough large neutral grounds around the country to remove the need for this, but the financial need to play matches at Wembley dictates otherwise. Just an Idea, but could there not been a joint proposal put forward for an Olympic stadium and national football stadium, with the Olympic stadium being converted into a top notch soccer venue by removing the track and replacing the area with seatsafterwards, and then a smaller arena built next door for warm up purposes in the Olympics and then for ongoing athletic use afterwards, instead of having A soccer stadium we cannot really afford, and an olymic stadium that we don't really need?

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Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:06 pm

Is the match on ITV, BBC or Sky?

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Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:10 pm

Asps wrote:Is the match on ITV, BBC or Sky?


BBCONE

7:30 pm
Match of the Day Live
Gary Lineker presents live coverage of the final game of the Euro 2008 qualifying campaign as England host Croatia at Wembley, knowing that a draw will be enough to reach next summer's tournament. [S]

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Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:13 pm

YGA Saddler wrote:
Asps wrote:Is the match on ITV, BBC or Sky?


BBCONE

7:30 pm
Match of the Day Live
Gary Lineker presents live coverage of the final game of the Euro 2008 qualifying campaign as England host Croatia at Wembley, knowing that a draw will be enough to reach next summer's tournament. [S]


Thanks mate.

What time do you want me round?:lol:

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Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:20 pm

What a suprise, he's grinning again . . . .

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7106414.stm


Im sorry, but any England manager who had a PR guru on they payroll, and always talks to his sports psycologist before interviews is not in the right frame of mind to be in charge. I mean, why dont we just interview the sports psycologist?

Shockingly, my grudge isnt personal. I just think hes an idiot. Not entirely his fault hes wandered into the role

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Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:57 pm

Cueball wrote:It's a good point. But it's also important that as a major footballing nation that we have a stadium of the highest order. When I go to Wembley it makes me proud to know that we have one of the best (if not the best) football stadiums in the world. I don't know whether you have been yet, but maybe it's just something you have to see in the flesh. And no offence, but England isn't a team for London fans. Every time I go down, the majority of fans seem to be from teams outside of London (we always see at least 10 other Saddlers!!). Join EnglandFans and you'll never have a problem getting a ticket, in fact I'm quite amazed how easy it is to get tickets starting from just £25.

I only wish it had been built in Birmingham....


You make fair points (particularly the last one :wink: ), I can't deny that. I feel though that the overall impact will be detrimental to the national team in the long run - the cost implications, the effect on Burton, the location, the PR disaster of the empty seats in the middle tier. It seemed to be handled so badly that whatever the finished product (you're right, I haven't been there yet, but it does look immensely impressive), it can't mitigate completely for the price 'football' will have to pay.

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