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Russia v England

Walsall supporters react to England's despairs - as they happened. No text speak, please.
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Plastic Hawk
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Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:27 am

Blazing_Saddler wrote:Hiddink would have been my first choice. Then Scolari. Having screwed that up, Big Sam

I don't think Mclaren did that great a job at Boro, he had shed loads of money, and one good run in the mickey mouse cup of Europe as it is now.

If Newcastle give Allardyce the time, he will get things right. It isn't an easy job, how many have been there and failed now.

Bolton were a team no one wanted to play, they got a reputation for the kind of football they played, but he just played them to their strengths.


And McClaren won the League Cup. No arguments that it's a Mickey Mouse Cup, but he's the only English manager to win a trophy with a Premiership club for over 10 years.

I agree with you about Newcastle actually. I just doubt that the board will give him time. They should be looking for halfway up the table this season, but I suspect that they're thinking top 6.

As I say, Allardyce did make Bolton tough to play - and did a good job. I just need him to go somewhere else and show a bit more adaptability before I'm convinced that he's a really top manager. There are plenty of managers who've had great success at one club but not really been able to adapt to a step up. Graham Taylor is one example - and I fear that an England side under Allardyce would follow the same pattern as Taylor's.

Obviously McClaren has been no better - and I can't honestly say that I'm surprised at that. I think that it was a toss-up between the two of them (having scared off all the top candidates) and McClaren probably got the nod for non-footballing reasons to be honest.

We-ARE-Walsall
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Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:32 am

Fair enough, you entitled to your opinion. I honestly think Sam was more deserving of a chance than Mclaren, If he does a good job at Newcastle, no doubt his time will come, that is if he doesn't stick two fingers up at the FA. I doubt that though, I don't think he is that kind of man.

I like the way Allardyce does things. He goes the extra mile to gain the smallest of edges. I honestly think you would have seen an England team with some kind of plan. Whether everyone agreed with the team selection or not

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SaddlerSteve
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Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:41 am

Its the morning after the night before syndrome and i may be wrong but if Croatia lose to Macedonia (i know its unlikely) and we beat Croatia in the last game don't we scrape through on goal difference??

Talk about clutching at straws.

All this talk of Mourinho, Scolari etc is a bit pie in the sky i think.
Does anyone think any world class manager is going to take on a job where they will be twiddling their thumbs for hte best part of a year due to not qualifying for the Euro's?

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Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:44 am

SaddlerSteve wrote:Its the morning after the night before syndrome and i may be wrong but if Croatia lose to Macedonia (i know its unlikely) and we beat Croatia in the last game don't we scrape through on goal difference??

Talk about clutching at straws.

All this talk of Mourinho, Scolari etc is a bit pie in the sky i think.
Does anyone think any world class manager is going to take on a job where they will be twiddling their thumbs for hte best part of a year due to not qualifying for the Euro's?


It goes on head to head first not goal difference

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Plastic Hawk
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Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:55 am

Blazing_Saddler wrote:
SaddlerSteve wrote:Its the morning after the night before syndrome and i may be wrong but if Croatia lose to Macedonia (i know its unlikely) and we beat Croatia in the last game don't we scrape through on goal difference??

Talk about clutching at straws.

All this talk of Mourinho, Scolari etc is a bit pie in the sky i think.
Does anyone think any world class manager is going to take on a job where they will be twiddling their thumbs for hte best part of a year due to not qualifying for the Euro's?


It goes on head to head first not goal difference


So we'd need to beat them 2-0 or by three clear goals (there's away goals in the head-to-head). I guess we might win 2-0 at a push, but they won't lose to Macedonia. Our best chance is that Russia fail to score against Israel (not impossible), draw 0-0 and we just pip them.

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myleftknee
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Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:01 am

Plastic Hawk wrote:
Blazing_Saddler wrote:
SaddlerSteve wrote:Its the morning after the night before syndrome and i may be wrong but if Croatia lose to Macedonia (i know its unlikely) and we beat Croatia in the last game don't we scrape through on goal difference??

Talk about clutching at straws.

All this talk of Mourinho, Scolari etc is a bit pie in the sky i think.
Does anyone think any world class manager is going to take on a job where they will be twiddling their thumbs for hte best part of a year due to not qualifying for the Euro's?


It goes on head to head first not goal difference


So we'd need to beat them 2-0 or by three clear goals (there's away goals in the head-to-head). I guess we might win 2-0 at a push, but they won't lose to Macedonia. Our best chance is that Russia fail to score against Israel (not impossible), draw 0-0 and we just pip them.


Any sort of a draw will do that would leave them on 25 and us on 26 if we beat Croatia. If Israel can put three past Croatia they are no mugs at home.

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Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:08 am

Of the possible replacements I'd go with big Sam every time, english, got a decent rap with the media, not afraid to open his mouth and is very thorough in his approach to the game, but where he wins it for me is he's not afraid to mix it up, look at his Bolton teams, a mix of superstars and journeymen and people we hadnt ever heard of, and he knew how to handle and get the best out of all of them, and surely thats what this job needs, someone who isnt afraid to drop a Rooney and pop in a crouch or heskey if thats what kind of game its going to be.

BIG SAM IN!!!!!!

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Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:20 am

I don't believe I'm actually saying this but I've been impressed with McLaren the last couple months but if we don't qualify it counts for nothing, it would be like Man Utd getting relegated from the Championship, let alone the Premiership. As for a replacement I would like Mourinhio but has already said he would never take the job and I doubt the FA would ever offer it to him, Lippi maybe? They're not falling from trees to be honest.

Ulster Saddler
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Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:04 am

For years I have been banging on about England's woes and how overrated they are and how we only have one genuine world class player etc (although I undersatand he was poor last night).

The only way I can describe the FA/McClaren/Sven/England players is to equate them to an alcoholic who keeps returning to the bar for one last drink.

I believe that I and others on this board would do at the very worst the same job for England as McClaren has done - and don't forget this is a man who was with England with Sven and therefore is supposed to know these players inside out and would have had the benefit of seeing at close hand what worked and what didn't under Sven.

It seems that he has learned nothing in his time as Sven's no.2.

I think he should be sacked and if he has any self esteem would refuse compensation.

A judicial review should take place into the entire running tof the FA.

My main gripe is that everyone is running round talking about accepting responsibility - but in reality do not accept responsiblity.

Finally, I think the players have gotten off far too lighlty over the years and someone needs to take them to task for their performances and effort and basic errors - they are simply too pampered and do not appear to have to suffer any repercussions for poor performance which is something that I thought only existed in the civil service.

McClaren is paid to accept responsibility - well this means resigning if England do not qualify - it is as simple as that - DO NOT WAIT TO BE SACKED.

If England do not qualify then the one thing we will miss is them threatening to go on strike if they do not get enough money for playing in the tournament.

UP THE SADDLERS

We-ARE-Walsall
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Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:33 am

Nice post Ulster

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Neuromantic
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Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:08 pm

The special one is the answer.

Another point is, that defeat last night is probably the end of Beckhams international career as well, which is disgusting in itself. At least he shows passion when he plays.

Steve - my point about Gerrard is as captain and if yo uread my post I say the whole team was inept and passionless. Its this stigma of being the 'great steven gerrard' theat gets on my nerves, he has done nothing for England of any importance since scoring against Germany 6 years ago.

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SheffieldSaddler
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Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:09 pm

Blazing_Saddler wrote:Nice post Ulster


Agreed.
As I have said on another thread. lets have some ex players like Lineker and Shearer within the FA.
i.e People who have played at International level, are respected and have a knowledge base of football.
Get them to employ the right manager for the job.

The players have a lot to answer for no doubt.

Oh, perhaps added onto the panel of FA we can have someone who has sense, knows what it is like to win a big tournment, is superb tactically and is a superb motivator.
Step forward Clive Woodward.
As I say, not football experience, but the big tournement winning mentality experience.

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King Crimson
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Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:13 pm

Ego Sum Ego Existo wrote:Steve - my point about Gerrard is as captain and if yo uread my post I say the whole team was inept and passionless. Its this stigma of being the 'great steven gerrard' theat gets on my nerves, he has done nothing for England of any importance since scoring against Germany 6 years ago.


Two against Estonia, when no one else looked (a) bothered (b) like scoring? :idea:

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SheffieldSaddler
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Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:18 pm

King Crimson wrote:
Ego Sum Ego Existo wrote:Steve - my point about Gerrard is as captain and if yo uread my post I say the whole team was inept and passionless. Its this stigma of being the 'great steven gerrard' theat gets on my nerves, he has done nothing for England of any importance since scoring against Germany 6 years ago.


Two against Estonia, when no one else looked (a) bothered (b) like scoring? :idea:


His "Super" performances over the last 3 years, with Rooneys can be written on the back of a postage stamp.

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King Crimson
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Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:23 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Ego Sum Ego Existo wrote:Steve - my point about Gerrard is as captain and if yo uread my post I say the whole team was inept and passionless. Its this stigma of being the 'great steven gerrard' theat gets on my nerves, he has done nothing for England of any importance since scoring against Germany 6 years ago.


Two against Estonia, when no one else looked (a) bothered (b) like scoring? :idea:


His "Super" performances over the last 3 years, with Rooneys can be written on the back of a postage stamp.


There aren't many players whose individual performances are memorable for me, Sheff. I think England's most consistent player in recent months has been Joe Cole.

I was working last night, didn't see any of the game, so can't really comment on it. I think its fair to say though that both Super Frank and Super Steve play better in the blue of Chelsea and red of Liverpool respectively than they do for England (although neither have been in stunning club form recently). Why this is the case is another matter. Agree about Rooney too.

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Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:27 pm

King Crimson wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Ego Sum Ego Existo wrote:Steve - my point about Gerrard is as captain and if yo uread my post I say the whole team was inept and passionless. Its this stigma of being the 'great steven gerrard' theat gets on my nerves, he has done nothing for England of any importance since scoring against Germany 6 years ago.


Two against Estonia, when no one else looked (a) bothered (b) like scoring? :idea:


His "Super" performances over the last 3 years, with Rooneys can be written on the back of a postage stamp.


There aren't many players whose individual performances are memorable for me, Sheff. I think England's most consistent player in recent months has been Joe Cole.

I was working last night, didn't see any of the game, so can't really comment on it. I think its fair to say though that both Super Frank and Super Steve play better in the blue of Chelsea and red of Liverpool respectively than they do for England (although neither have been in stunning club form recently). Why this is the case is another matter. Agree about Rooney too.


I agree aak. Id rather see players who are passionate and havent let us down like Hargreaves and Joe Cole, our best two players over the interim period between the world cup and now I would say. Robinson surely cannot start in goal for the next match.

I think it needs a total overhaul after we are knocked out, be it in a month or in the quarter finals. The young blood should be brought through.

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Plastic Hawk
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Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:16 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Ego Sum Ego Existo wrote:Steve - my point about Gerrard is as captain and if yo uread my post I say the whole team was inept and passionless. Its this stigma of being the 'great steven gerrard' theat gets on my nerves, he has done nothing for England of any importance since scoring against Germany 6 years ago.


Two against Estonia, when no one else looked (a) bothered (b) like scoring? :idea:


His "Super" performances over the last 3 years, with Rooneys can be written on the back of a postage stamp.


It's not about players (any players, be they Lampard, Rooney, Gerrard, Beckham), it's about teams. One of the biggest problem with the England side is that we all get drawn into this massive debate about individual players, building up our own favourites at the expense of their rivals. Then there ends up being a massive clash of egos on the pitch.

Who won the last European Championships? How many stars did they have?

Did the backlash against football in Italy after the Juventus saga force the Italian side to pull together as a team to try to rescue the game in their country? Was that a major factor in their World Cup victory?

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Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:31 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Ego Sum Ego Existo wrote:Steve - my point about Gerrard is as captain and if yo uread my post I say the whole team was inept and passionless. Its this stigma of being the 'great steven gerrard' theat gets on my nerves, he has done nothing for England of any importance since scoring against Germany 6 years ago.


Two against Estonia, when no one else looked (a) bothered (b) like scoring? :idea:


His "Super" performances over the last 3 years, with Rooneys can be written on the back of a postage stamp.


So could Franks and you would still have half of it left to write down all of Robinson's blunders.

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SheffieldSaddler
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Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:26 pm

WFC4Eva wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Ego Sum Ego Existo wrote:Steve - my point about Gerrard is as captain and if yo uread my post I say the whole team was inept and passionless. Its this stigma of being the 'great steven gerrard' theat gets on my nerves, he has done nothing for England of any importance since scoring against Germany 6 years ago.


Two against Estonia, when no one else looked (a) bothered (b) like scoring? :idea:


His "Super" performances over the last 3 years, with Rooneys can be written on the back of a postage stamp.


So could Franks and you would still have half of it left to write down all of Robinson's blunders.


But we are not discussing that. Can you not read?

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Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:36 pm

Haven't read this thread cos England don't concern me half as much as WFC but Robinson is to blame more for this mess than McLaren, apart from the fact he shouldn't have kept picking him.

Butterfingers for club and country. Spilling easy shots that goalkeepers are coached to parry into safety then defend the set piece. Not Nobrot Robinson.

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Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:04 pm

I did not bother watching it although I could have, I'm afraid the current England team and it's players are over rated mainly by the popular press and the radio stations, too many people get conned into believing some of the crud that is spouted by the media.
We haven't had a truly world class consistant player since Gazza drank himself to oblivion.
The Manager is content to pick his favourites despite their lack of form.
Captain - Terry, before he did his knee was happy to play even though he was not fully fit, he should not even have gone to Russia.
Goalie.- nothing need be said, if he's truly the best we have then woe betide us.
Richards.- looks good at right back.
Campbell. looked o.k.
Ferdinand. in good form?
Lescott.- could be, but not yet
Cole, - looks good with 3 yards of space in front of him.
Gerrard.- in good form?
Barry.- in there because there's no-one else to do the job but lacks pace.
Wright -Phillips.- delivery not consistant.
Rooney.- promises,promises.
Owen.- if he's fit good.

England will always struggle against teams that close them down and attack the back four.
I'd rather watch the Super Saddlers.

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SaigonSaddler
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Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:01 am

Wrecked! :( :cry: :( :cry: :( :cry: :( :x :evil:

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Fray Bentos is God!
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Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:31 pm

well, thats a summer free :cry:

We-ARE-Walsall
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Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:42 pm

Fray Bentos is God! wrote:well, thats a summer free :cry:


Come to Hungary with me if you want

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Fray Bentos is God!
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Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:47 pm

Blazing_Saddler wrote:
Fray Bentos is God! wrote:well, thats a summer free :cry:


Come to Hungary with me if you want


Lets roll

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