England v Russia

[Bristol Fan]

Two very professional performances in two games, but two swallows don't make a summer. Heskey is now and has always been a far better footballer than Crouch, but he isn't the second coming and the tv pundits, as is their tendency, have gone rather OTT in their praise (saying he should start ahead of Rooney!?) He has been great in both games, but would he be against Italy or Brazil or Argentina? Barry is a far, far better foil for Gerrard than Lampard is, but I bet Lampard will be back for the next game. I still think we have weaknesses that better teams than Israel and Russia will exploit to the hilt - and sadly there are a great many teams who are better than Israel and Russia and we would have to beat at least one of those great many teams to get any further than the quarter finals of a major tournament.

[latviancheese]

we did score three against a team who had only conceded 1 goal before hand though.

[Bristol Fan]

Very true, but when you look at the teams they had played beforehand it doesn't seem like a massive accomplishment for them. I don't want to take anything away from two good England performances, but I still don't see how we're going to be any better off when it comes to the next tournament than we have been for the last two or three, when McLaren's first choice team is the same as Eriksson's first choice team, probably apart from Wright-Philips instead of Beckham.

[latviancheese]

McClaren has just papered over some cracks, he is still a piss poor manager who has NEVER done anything.

I have to say, Owen is looking good, all he needs to do now is stay fit. And then he will of made me eat my words. Somehow i cant see him staying fit.

Barry is good, but i really dont see what gerrard has done in the last two games to justify people saying he is better than Lampard.

Wright Phillips is showing us what he can do, still needs to learn to cross more consistnly.

On paper our defence looks really good, but its really not. If we were to play a top team, theyd get past it. If Russia had put more than one man in the box at a time they would of had so many chances.

Heskey has shown Peter crouch up imho, crouch is an ugly beast. Thats all. I dont think ive seen Crouch win a header and put it in the vicicnity of an england player. Heskey is a far better play at this. People say heskey hasnt been a profilic goalscorer for years, thats because he's the ideal target man.

If we had a competent manager id say we are almost there, but we dont, sooner The FA sack their muppet puppet the better.



And i do wish the England "band" would do a running jump of a cliff and f*** off. Its just a sad twonk with a trumpet and another sad twonk with a drum, who use it as an excuse to get in for free. And they cant even keep a tune. I could play better farting through a trumpet.

Oh and Mark Lawrenson or however you spell his name, is the biggest condescending t*** on the planet, and on top of that we have John Motson unable to pronounce any russian names, boring us with pointless facts, and anytime the ball goes near the box he screams like a fat girl when she's seen chocolate cake. BBC should sort it out, what do we pay our Tv licence fee for! (RANT OVER)

[Exile]

McClaren has just papered over some cracks, he is still a pee poor manager who has NEVER done anything.

I have to say, Owen is looking good, all he needs to do now is stay fit. And then he will of made me eat my words. Somehow i cant see him staying fit.

Barry is good, but i really dont see what gerrard has done in the last two games to justify people saying he is better than Lampard.

Wright Phillips is showing us what he can do, still needs to learn to cross more consistnly.

On paper our defence looks really good, but its really not. If we were to play a top team, theyd get past it. If Russia had put more than one man in the box at a time they would of had so many chances.

Heskey has shown Peter crouch up imho, crouch is an ugly beast. Thats all. I dont think ive seen Crouch win a header and put it in the vicicnity of an england player. Heskey is a far better play at this. People say heskey hasnt been a profilic goalscorer for years, thats because he's the ideal target man.

If we had a competent manager id say we are almost there, but we dont, sooner The FA sack their muppet puppet the better.



And i do wish the England "band" would do a running jump of a cliff and f*** off. Its just a sad twonk with a trumpet and another sad twonk with a drum, who use it as an excuse to get in for free. And they cant even keep a tune. I could play better farting through a trumpet.

Oh and Mark Lawrenson or however you spell his name, is the biggest condescending t*** on the planet, and on top of that we have John Motson unable to pronounce any russian names, boring us with pointless facts, and anytime the ball goes near the box he screams like a fat girl when she's seen chocolate cake. BBC should sort it out, what do we pay our Tv licence fee for! (RANT OVER)

Sure you haven't missed anything? How about the colour of the programmes?

[Duke]

Barry was my MOTM . always made himself available , never wasted a ball outstanding. Owen after many including myself had wrote him off is back to his brilliant best. Qualification is now in our own hands
I wonder if McClaren has tHe balls to leave the likes of Rooney , Hargreaves and Lampard out of the starting X1 .

[Plastic Hawk]

Barry was my MOTM . always made himself available , never wasted a ball outstanding. Owen after many including myself had wrote him off is back to his brilliant best. Qualification is now in our own hands
I wonder if McClaren has tHe balls to leave the likes of Rooney , Hargreaves and Lampard out of the starting X1 .

Short answer, no.

[jnks]

Barry was my MOTM . always made himself available , never wasted a ball outstanding. Owen after many including myself had wrote him off is back to his brilliant best. Qualification is now in our own hands
I wonder if McClaren has tHe balls to leave the likes of Rooney , Hargreaves and Lampard out of the starting X1 .

Short answer, no.

Well it's now a month until the next qualifier and you'd like to think that how those players play for their clubs between now and then would have some bearing on it. But it won't. I think they're guaranteed their place, purely on reputation, not form, which has been our problem all along. These two games have shown what you can do if you ignore the tabloids and pick players who are in great form - like Barry and, to some extent, Heskey.

The trouble is, it's Estonia at home next, so whatever team he picks should be able to turn them over and then all of the good work done by those players in these two games will be forgotten because the 'Big' names will be back in the team.

[myleftknee]

Barry was my MOTM . always made himself available , never wasted a ball outstanding. Owen after many including myself had wrote him off is back to his brilliant best. Qualification is now in our own hands
I wonder if McClaren has tHe balls to leave the likes of Rooney , Hargreaves and Lampard out of the starting X1 .

Short answer, no.

That is the question for me, some how McLaren has stumbled across this team that is well balanced and complements each other and I must give him his dues. How refreshing it is seeing an English side playing like an English side and not having to fight against players out of position and taste testing different players in unfamiliar roles.

This could prove to be the foundations of a good team, belief goes a long way and with suspensions and injuries there is always going to be the chance for Rooney, Lampard, Beckham and Hargreaves to lay their claims for a starting role but for now McLaren must stay with this team and nurture its natural growth. This sends all the right messages out to the media, the fans and most importantly the players, the message being names mean nothing in this team just performances.

[cyclothymic]

Over the last two matches England have looked good - and it has been a while since they looked good

I for one thought the manager couldn't inspire anything but I am prepared to be proved wrong - lets hope so

[priestley_saddler]

Two very professional performances in two games, but two swallows don't make a summer. Heskey is now and has always been a far better footballer than Crouch, but he isn't the second coming and the tv pundits, as is their tendency, have gone rather OTT in their praise (saying he should start ahead of Rooney!?) He has been great in both games, but would he be against Italy or Brazil or Argentina? Barry is a far, far better foil for Gerrard than Lampard is, but I bet Lampard will be back for the next game. I still think we have weaknesses that better teams than Israel and Russia will exploit to the hilt - and sadly there are a great many teams who are better than Israel and Russia and we would have to beat at least one of those great many teams to get any further than the quarter finals of a major tournament.

The thing is, the next three games aren't against these teams, they're against Estonia, Russia again and Croatia. If he keeps his form up, then he will play well against these teams and for that reason he deserves to keep his place. You can't not pick a player against Estonia because he might struggle against the world champions.

As for the three teams you mentioned, thanks to the Scots, Italy might not qualify. And I can't see Brazil or Argentina causing us to many problems at the Euro's :wink:

[priestley_saddler]

Barry was my MOTM . always made himself available , never wasted a ball outstanding. Owen after many including myself had wrote him off is back to his brilliant best. Qualification is now in our own hands
I wonder if McClaren has tHe balls to leave the likes of Rooney , Hargreaves and Lampard out of the starting X1 .

Short answer, no.

That is the question for me, some how McLaren has stumbled across this team that is well balanced and complements each other and I must give him his dues. How refreshing it is seeing an English side playing like an English side and not having to fight against players out of position and taste testing different players in unfamiliar roles.

This could prove to be the foundations of a good team, belief goes a long way and with suspensions and injuries there is always going to be the chance for Rooney, Lampard, Beckham and Hargreaves to lay their claims for a starting role but for now McLaren must stay with this team and nurture its natural growth. This sends all the right messages out to the media, the fans and most importantly the players, the message being names mean nothing in this team just performances.

I tend to agree.

The test for McClaren wasn't as much last night, it's what he does when all his players are fit. Heskey, Barry and SWP all deserve another chance. What message will it send out to them if they're dropped again now? What more can they do to justify a regular slot in the team? If McClaren reverts to type and keeps faith with the big names who have let England down so many times before, the players who played last night may end up spending International week sulking with Jamie Carragher.

[Plastic Hawk]

Barry was my MOTM . always made himself available , never wasted a ball outstanding. Owen after many including myself had wrote him off is back to his brilliant best. Qualification is now in our own hands
I wonder if McClaren has tHe balls to leave the likes of Rooney , Hargreaves and Lampard out of the starting X1 .

Short answer, no.

Well it's now a month until the next qualifier and you'd like to think that how those players play for their clubs between now and then would have some bearing on it. But it won't. I think they're guaranteed their place, purely on reputation, not form, which has been our problem all along. These two games have shown what you can do if you ignore the tabloids and pick players who are in great form - like Barry and, to some extent, Heskey.

The trouble is, it's Estonia at home next, so whatever team he picks should be able to turn them over and then all of the good work done by those players in these two games will be forgotten because the 'Big' names will be back in the team.

I'm not sure it's all about picking the "form" player (although that should be a consideration). I think it's about picking players that complement one another and can bring out the best of each other's game. Too often McClaren has tried to pick the best 11 players and shoehorn them into some kind of shape, when his job is to make the team as effective as possible. Clearly this is motivated at least partly by a fear of the tabloids - if he drops Lampard or Rooney and we lose then he's going to get absolutely slaughtered, but if he picks the side that the Sun have been lobbying for all week and we still lose then they're going to have to be a bit more restrained.

Clearly Lampard and Gerrard don't complement one another, so shouldn't play together in central midfield. We also need pace on at least one wing, so Wright-Phillips should probably stay there (even if he hasn't played as well as the BBC make out - if I ever play pro football I hope I can have my Dad doing the analysis too!!). That means that either Lampard or Gerrard has to miss out. After four years of trying to accomodate them that probably won't be too controversial.

Hargreaves probably should come back in for Barry if he's fit.

Rooney's the more difficult one. Him and Owen are not a natural combination at all. Since neither Rooney nor any of his potential partners (except Owen) don't score that many goals then really Owen ought to be an automatic choice. And Owen's more effective alongside a big man, so you'd want Crouch or Heskey in there with him. That means no space for Rooney (unless you play him left wing) in the best team, even though he's one of our best individual players. But that's a huge call to make - and one that I seriously doubt McClaren has the bottle to make.

[Stu]

Of course McLaren will revert to type... I might believe that he'd stick with this team if he actually chose this team, but let's be honest, he was forced into selecting this team because of injuries.

If Rooney, Lampard, Neville and Hargreaves were fit, they would have played. As it was the team pretty much picked itself, espeically with Crouch's suspension and Carrick's inept performance against the Germans meaning we needed a 'presence' up front and meaning he had no choice but to finally give Barry a chance.

The only chance of keeping the same side and showing Lampard and Rooney that they really have to perform to keep their places, is for the press to virtually railroad McClaren into picking the same team and hope be bows to their demand under pressure.

[Bristol Fan]

Two very professional performances in two games, but two swallows don't make a summer. Heskey is now and has always been a far better footballer than Crouch, but he isn't the second coming and the tv pundits, as is their tendency, have gone rather OTT in their praise (saying he should start ahead of Rooney!?) He has been great in both games, but would he be against Italy or Brazil or Argentina? Barry is a far, far better foil for Gerrard than Lampard is, but I bet Lampard will be back for the next game. I still think we have weaknesses that better teams than Israel and Russia will exploit to the hilt - and sadly there are a great many teams who are better than Israel and Russia and we would have to beat at least one of those great many teams to get any further than the quarter finals of a major tournament.

The thing is, the next three games aren't against these teams, they're against Estonia, Russia again and Croatia. If he keeps his form up, then he will play well against these teams and for that reason he deserves to keep his place. You can't not pick a player against Estonia because he might struggle against the world champions.

As for the three teams you mentioned, thanks to the Scots, Italy might not qualify. And I can't see Brazil or Argentina causing us to many problems at the Euro's :wink:

I agree but the ultimate aim is to win a tournament and it's hard to see at the moment how we can go any further than we have done at the last few. When you look at the team that played so well and came so close in Euro 96 then it's easy to see that you can do well with less fancy players, so let's hope it happens again, but you can bet your bottom dollar that Lampard will be accommodated again as soon as he's fit, and then you're back to moving Gerrard out of his best position in order to do it. Now, Gerrard hasn't been at his best in the last two games, but he's still our finest player and asking him to play somewhere where you can't bring the best out of him, in order to play someone worse in his favoured position, is just crazy and has been the pivotal reason for many of our insipid performances in recent years.

[Stu]

I agree but the ultimate aim is to win a tournament and it's hard to see at the moment how we can go any further than we have done at the last few. When you look at the team that played so well and came so close in Euro 96 then it's easy to see that you can do well with less fancy players, so let's hope it happens again, but you can bet your bottom dollar that Lampard will be accommodated again as soon as he's fit, and then you're back to moving Gerrard out of his best position in order to do it. Now, Gerrard hasn't been at his best in the last two games, but he's still our finest player and asking him to play somewhere where you can't bring the best out of him, in order to play someone worse in his favoured position, is just crazy and has been the pivotal reason for many of our insipid performances in recent years.

I actually thought his last two performances have been two of his better for England for a while, he was much more reminiscent of how he plays for Liverpool. Really driving from midfield, got forward a lot more, got into the box a lot more as well. Generally doing the things that Lampard stops him doing in my opinion. I rate both players, but Gerrard is the better for me, a leader without doubt and an inspiration to those around him.

[priestley_saddler]

I agree but the ultimate aim is to win a tournament and it's hard to see at the moment how we can go any further than we have done at the last few. When you look at the team that played so well and came so close in Euro 96 then it's easy to see that you can do well with less fancy players, so let's hope it happens again, but you can bet your bottom dollar that Lampard will be accommodated again as soon as he's fit, and then you're back to moving Gerrard out of his best position in order to do it. Now, Gerrard hasn't been at his best in the last two games, but he's still our finest player and asking him to play somewhere where you can't bring the best out of him, in order to play someone worse in his favoured position, is just crazy and has been the pivotal reason for many of our insipid performances in recent years.

I actually thought his last two performances have been two of his better for England for a while, he was much more reminiscent of how he plays for Liverpool. Really driving from midfield, got forward a lot more, got into the box a lot more as well. Generally doing the things that Lampard stops him doing in my opinion. I rate both players, but Gerrard is the better for me, a leader without doubt and an inspiration to those around him.

Agreed, and thats why if Lampard has to come back into the team, it must be for Gerrard and can't be for Barry.

Also, with everyone mentioning Barry and Heskey keeping their places. One of our strengths over the last two games have been Richards and SWP on the right. Will they keep their places when Gary Neville and Beckham are fit, or have their international careers been brought to an abrupt end?

[Duke]

I didn't know till last night that Barry and Gerrard had played together at youth level and are good friends. For me they are the ideal central mid partnership.
Another interesting fact to emerge last night was , Owen and Heskey have started 14 games together , in which Owen has scored 14 goals. something McClaren must take notice of.
Yes Rooney is a much better played than Heskey , but is he a better team player .

The next 3 games are IMO, .a massive test for the England coach I hope he's up to it.

[Plastic Hawk]

I agree but the ultimate aim is to win a tournament and it's hard to see at the moment how we can go any further than we have done at the last few. When you look at the team that played so well and came so close in Euro 96 then it's easy to see that you can do well with less fancy players, so let's hope it happens again, but you can bet your bottom dollar that Lampard will be accommodated again as soon as he's fit, and then you're back to moving Gerrard out of his best position in order to do it. Now, Gerrard hasn't been at his best in the last two games, but he's still our finest player and asking him to play somewhere where you can't bring the best out of him, in order to play someone worse in his favoured position, is just crazy and has been the pivotal reason for many of our insipid performances in recent years.

I actually thought his last two performances have been two of his better for England for a while, he was much more reminiscent of how he plays for Liverpool. Really driving from midfield, got forward a lot more, got into the box a lot more as well. Generally doing the things that Lampard stops him doing in my opinion. I rate both players, but Gerrard is the better for me, a leader without doubt and an inspiration to those around him.

Agreed, and thats why if Lampard has to come back into the team, it must be for Gerrard and can't be for Barry.

Also, with everyone mentioning Barry and Heskey keeping their places. One of our strengths over the last two games have been Richards and SWP on the right. Will they keep their places when Gary Neville and Beckham are fit, or have their international careers been brought to an abrupt end?

Agree on Lampard. Personally I'd leave Gerrard in there. Considering he's not played for three weeks I think those two performances were very creditable. As I've said above, though, I would bring Hargreaves back in place of Barry. No slight on Barry, who's played well, but I just think Hargreaves is fundamentally a better player.

I can't see a case for bringing Beckham back either (although I'd have him in the squad). I'm not convinced by Wright-Phillips, especially his delivery, but he gives defenders something different to think about with his pace. I probably would bring Neville in for Richards though (against Russia, maybe not against Latvia). I think Neville's more defensively sound than Richards at the moment and I'd imagine we'll be under pressure for long spells in Moscow.

[Plastic Hawk]

I didn't know till last night that Barry and Gerrard had played together at youth level and are good friends. For me they are the ideal central mid partnership.
Another interesting fact to emerge last night was , Owen and Heskey have started 14 games together , in which Owen has scored 14 goals. something McClaren must take notice of.
Yes Rooney is a much better played than Heskey , but is he a better team player .

The next 3 games are IMO, .a massive test for the England coach I hope he's up to it.

Did they play together in midfield though? Remember that Barry was a defender as a kid.

[Student]

McClaren has just papered over some cracks, he is still a pee poor manager who has NEVER done anything.

I have to say, Owen is looking good, all he needs to do now is stay fit. And then he will of made me eat my words. Somehow i cant see him staying fit.

Barry is good, but i really dont see what gerrard has done in the last two games to justify people saying he is better than Lampard.

Wright Phillips is showing us what he can do, still needs to learn to cross more consistnly.

On paper our defence looks really good, but its really not. If we were to play a top team, theyd get past it. If Russia had put more than one man in the box at a time they would of had so many chances.

Heskey has shown Peter crouch up imho, crouch is an ugly beast. Thats all. I dont think ive seen Crouch win a header and put it in the vicicnity of an england player. Heskey is a far better play at this. People say heskey hasnt been a profilic goalscorer for years, thats because he's the ideal target man.

If we had a competent manager id say we are almost there, but we dont, sooner The FA sack their muppet puppet the better.



And i do wish the England "band" would do a running jump of a cliff and f*** off. Its just a sad twonk with a trumpet and another sad twonk with a drum, who use it as an excuse to get in for free. And they cant even keep a tune. I could play better farting through a trumpet.
Oh and Mark Lawrenson or however you spell his name, is the biggest condescending t*** on the planet, and on top of that we have John Motson unable to pronounce any russian names, boring us with pointless facts, and anytime the ball goes near the box he screams like a fat girl when she's seen chocolate cake. BBC should sort it out, what do we pay our Tv licence fee for! (RANT OVER)

I'm not a big fan of the band I must admit, but I have been to a lot of games, particularly away from home, where they have 'made' the atmosphere. And as far as I know they pay their way and have to apply for tickets like any other fan.

[Duke]

I didn't know till last night that Barry and Gerrard had played together at youth level and are good friends. For me they are the ideal central mid partnership.
Another interesting fact to emerge last night was , Owen and Heskey have started 14 games together , in which Owen has scored 14 goals. something McClaren must take notice of.
Yes Rooney is a much better played than Heskey , but is he a better team player .

The next 3 games are IMO, .a massive test for the England coach I hope he's up to it.

Did they play together in midfield though? Remember that Barry was a defender as a kid.

no sure but they do have an great understading. Barry's international career as suffered because of is versatility. I really do think McClaren as stumbled across a great partnership.

[Cueball]

Went to the game last night. First game at New Wembley - amazing. Great performance, Heskey my man of the match.
Held the ball up brilliantly and won everything (EVERYTHING!!) in the air. Saw a Walsall fan in the stadium wearing last
season's home shirt (top man!). Saw some other Saddlers in the boozer outside the ground, stood on the decking with a
big Walsall flag. We get everywhere!!!

In the draw for Croatia tickets now - that will be some game.......

[Registered Saddler]

Kind of reminds me of when we went to 4-5-1 under Merson. By luck rather than judgement, we found a system that suited us to a tee. Playing that way, we played top-six sides Hartlepool and Hull off the park and also picked up good away wins at Swindon, Bristol City, Rotherham and Peterborough. However it soon went to pot when we changed back to 4-4-2 or the ridiculous 4-3-1-2.

I fear that as soon as the big names become available they will come straight back in the team and we will return to our previous insipid performances under McLaren. I am, however, desperate to be proved wrong.

[myleftknee]

Kind of reminds me of when we went to 4-5-1 under Merson. By luck rather than judgement, we found a system that suited us to a tee. Playing that way, we played top-six sides Hartlepool and Hull off the park and also picked up good away wins at Swindon, Bristol City, Rotherham and Peterborough. However it soon went to pot when we changed back to 4-4-2 or the ridiculous 4-3-1-2.

I fear that as soon as the big names become available they will come straight back in the team and we will return to our previous insipid performances under McLaren. I am, however, desperate to be proved wrong.

Me too, I've never wanted to be wrong so much in all my life. Come on McClaren, lets see how big your ginger clangers really are.

[SaigonSaddler]

Kind of reminds me of when we went to 4-5-1 under Merson. By luck rather than judgement, we found a system that suited us to a tee. Playing that way, we played top-six sides Hartlepool and Hull off the park and also picked up good away wins at Swindon, Bristol City, Rotherham and Peterborough. However it soon went to pot when we changed back to 4-4-2 or the ridiculous 4-3-1-2.

I fear that as soon as the big names become available they will come straight back in the team and we will return to our previous insipid performances under McLaren. I am, however, desperate to be proved wrong.

Depends how vocal the Chelsea mob are in baying for Lampard to return, I'm sure the FA will have a quiet word with McClaren to fit the fat cockney goon back into the side, think of all the sponsorship money :roll:

[KJC]

Kind of reminds me of when we went to 4-5-1 under Merson. By luck rather than judgement, we found a system that suited us to a tee. Playing that way, we played top-six sides Hartlepool and Hull off the park and also picked up good away wins at Swindon, Bristol City, Rotherham and Peterborough. However it soon went to pot when we changed back to 4-4-2 or the ridiculous 4-3-1-2.

I fear that as soon as the big names become available they will come straight back in the team and we will return to our previous insipid performances under McLaren. I am, however, desperate to be proved wrong.

Depends how vocal the Chelsea mob are in baying for Lampard to return, I'm sure the FA will have a quiet word with McClaren to fit the fat cockney goon back into the side, think of all the sponsorship money :roll:

I agree :cry:

[derbysaddler]

Tell you what,

It was nice to watch a game with England and actually enjoy the game for a change. 3 points is great yes, but the manner in which they played was pleasing.
Fair play to Barry, turned in a solid performance.

[Cueball]

Kind of reminds me of when we went to 4-5-1 under Merson. By luck rather than judgement, we found a system that suited us to a tee. Playing that way, we played top-six sides Hartlepool and Hull off the park and also picked up good away wins at Swindon, Bristol City, Rotherham and Peterborough. However it soon went to pot when we changed back to 4-4-2 or the ridiculous 4-3-1-2.

I fear that as soon as the big names become available they will come straight back in the team and we will return to our previous insipid performances under McLaren. I am, however, desperate to be proved wrong.

How bizarre. You're Mr. Positive when it comes to Walsall (second from bottom of the league) and Mr. Negative when it comes
to England (second top in the Group). Why not give McLaren some credit? His decision to bring back Heskey (widely derided at the time)
has proved to be a masterstroke. The last two performances have been as good as any in the last 5 years. He's got us playing as a team, not
a bunch of individuals. Still, you just put it all down to luck (like it's bad luck Walsall are second bottom in the league..) :evil:

[Stourbridge_Andy]

Would McLaren have picked Richards, Barry and Heskey if his hand hadn't been forced by injuries?

Has he stumbled on a good blend of players by accident?

If he has the courage to stick with this team and resist the clamour to bring back highly rated but under performing players like Beckham, Lampard, Hargreaves and (in particular) Gary Neville then all credit to him

If he caves in then he is the muppet some people claim he is