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Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Reports and reaction from the 2014-2015 season as Walsall finished 3rd in League 1
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sallian
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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:30 pm

Leatherman wrote:
Perhaps if we stopped passing to feet and instead roll the ball into space for players to run on to especially in the box, we might threaten the goal more.

P.S. Note to one to two of the more 'talented' players: you have two feet, there is no law in football which insists that you only use The same one all game to shift the ball.
.


Yes it is a good point, Walsall under Smith never utilized passing into space properly....it is especially vital in the last third of the field

One of the main problems with British coaching, is the failure to get players to use both feet.....they regularly get trapped on one side and almost become 50% less effective.... It is something that can be rectified with continuous practice even at a later age

coop63
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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:13 pm

Something I noticed about Rochdale was that when they attacked in the box they almost always dragged the moving ball back into the space in the box (away from the goal) rather than through a crowded group (incl the goalie) nearer to the goal line...

I know it's not rocket science and we probably do it too at times but for some strange reason it struck me afterwards as being very obvious and a part of their intentional game plan.. Equally, you can argue it was very effective for them (it worked for their first goal that's for sure..)

We seemed to struggle with it at the back (as we did most things yesterday!) :?

Just a thought..

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WFC_Rob
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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:33 pm

Walsallone wrote:having had further time for reflection I don't think we should get too hung up on systems...the fact is none of our outfield players played well and that was the reason we got hammered.

I think we have every right to question a system when it's completely different to any we played in a run to the top of the league.

Both of their full backs had free reign to run with the ball in a straight line until they got about 20 yards from our byline. Why? Because we had the narrowest midfield I've seen in a long time. I'm not one of these who thinks getting the ball wide is always the answer, but having someone playing in front of Demetriou and Taylor might have let us win the ball further up the pitch and stop them coming at us at will.

Granted, I don't think our players would lose that game 3-0 again, even if we played the same system, but O'Driscoll does need to get us back playing to our strengths again.

latviancheese
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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:06 pm

The second and third goals are utterly horrific. I like to look at the goals on tv before commenting on them individually. There was no desire to make challenges.

Infact, watching the highlights shows up the sad demise of Andy Taylor even more so than i thought at the time.

I also have to say during the game too a fair few heads dropped and we lacked real leadership, bar a few hand gestures from Lalkovic. I put it down to tiredness but i was worried how we capitulated after 3 minutes.

I hope its just a blip, credit to Rochdale in hindsight, they absolutely destroyed us. If we hadnt put such little fight id say they are the best team we have played.

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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:44 pm

WFC ROB...i agree the system was different but it was the one we played against Peterborough however against a less fancied team we did not play it very well. I also agree we should get back to playing as we played before as clearly our players are more comfortable with it however I don't think we can wholly blame the system for bad passing and little movement. I would put that down to loss of form/tiredness.

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mister marmite
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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:43 pm

Nothing wrong with us tinkering with systems and having that diamond in midfield up our sleeve ...

I think the first 20/30 mins against the posh it worked - but they figured out how to deal with it and then Rochdale turned up expecting it.

The body language of Lalkovic, Sawyers and Cook seemed to indicate they were frustrated at how it was going.

A good pattern / style of play will not drop in to place over night - will be concerned if we trot this system out again and again as this ain't the time to be Guinea pigging

Sawyers and Bradshaw in the final third works
A mix of Cook, Milan, Morris, Forde out wide works

Not sure a diamond brings out the best in these lads but SOD is the blood getting paid for it !

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Whitters
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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:23 am

PT wrote:The standard of officiating this season is probably worst I've ever seen, but if the refs don't know the rules then it is even worse than I thought.

Well is anyone surprised refs are "getting worse"?
Would you like to be exposed to the insanity from players, managers and spectators they are?
I expect the pool of potential refs is alarmingly small.
Is it time to look abroad for refs as well as players?

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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:24 am




Content was 'fortunately' not available in my country... :roll:

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Guest
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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:48 am

usa_saddler wrote:



Content was 'fortunately' not available in my country... :roll:



You're in luck. My version has been blocked on YouTube.

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saddla
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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:33 am

Here you go. For Saddlers everywhere. You won't enjoy it though :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7hEo_FPe34

portlandbill
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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:22 am

Just watched that!
Not even good well worked goals. All gifts.Second to the ball,stepping on the ball, no challenges, no marking at set pieces. Completely outclassed by a team that has found winning away nearly impossible. I fear for us in next two games,playing teams that have been showing a bit of form!
I hope it was a one off.

Mazza01
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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:23 pm

Lets not forget under Smith we lost at Home to Chesterfield and failed to beat Crewe and Oldham etc, these things happen.

All good teams get these results even at the top top level.

Take Gillingham they took a hiding at home to Burton and away to Cov but bounced back. Its now down to the players to show what their made of.

oh and we need to stop messing around with Bradshaw and Rico, they should be playing!

philthesaddler
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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:25 pm

Its swings and roundabouts.

As others have already said, I don't think we'd have beaten Peterborough if it wasn't for SOD's more aggressive and attacking approach. Under Smith, that would probably have been a stalemate, or defeat.

Similarly, I think we'd have done better against Rochdale than we did under Smith because I think he'd have started with Rico and Bradshaw and maybe set up with more protection on the wings.

SOD should be wary of differing too much from the formula that Smith had found that got us where we are this season.

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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:22 pm

Sorry you may have missed my positive feedback for a while, but have just got back from Wigan General after a stroke scare! Unluckily for a few on here I'm back, and inform!

The Blues & two's incident was on Saturday, so I missed what seems to have been an utterly diabolical game, and I was going to go an'all!

Brentford will obviously scag us, but I worry that Coventry will also scag us, which would be very worrying for our league position and would regrettably cause a total drop in confidence. From what I have read above I would put this shambles and lack of desire on Saturday down to 'tinkering' from SOD. As has been mentioned above 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' Why change winning formations?

Hope it was just a blip, but it was an utterly embarrassing blip that will have the likes of Gillingham, (who should walk away with this league now), Burton & Coventry wringing their hands that our form has suddenly sunk without trace.

Come on you Saddlers, get us to the Championship before I cark!!! :lol: :lol:

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chestersaddler
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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:12 pm

Ancient Moaner wrote:Sorry you may have missed my positive feedback for a while, but have just got back from Wigan General after a stroke scare! Unluckily for a few on here I'm back, and inform!

The Blues & two's incident was on Saturday, so I missed what seems to have been an utterly diabolical game, and I was going to go an'all!

Brentford will obviously scag us, but I worry that Coventry will also scag us, which would be very worrying for our league position and would regrettably cause a total drop in confidence. From what I have read above I would put this shambles and lack of desire on Saturday down to 'tinkering' from SOD. As has been mentioned above 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' Why change winning formations?

Hope it was just a blip, but it was an utterly embarrassing blip that will have the likes of Gillingham, (who should walk away with this league now), Burton & Coventry wringing their hands that our form has suddenly sunk without trace.

Come on you Saddlers, get us to the Championship before I cark!!! :lol: :lol:


Hope you are feeling better, Ancient.

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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:48 pm

Ancient Moaner wrote:Sorry you may have missed my positive feedback for a while, but have just got back from Wigan General after a stroke scare! Unluckily for a few on here I'm back, and inform!

The Blues & two's incident was on Saturday, so I missed what seems to have been an utterly diabolical game, and I was going to go an'all!

Brentford will obviously scag us, but I worry that Coventry will also scag us, which would be very worrying for our league position and would regrettably cause a total drop in confidence. From what I have read above I would put this shambles and lack of desire on Saturday down to 'tinkering' from SOD. As has been mentioned above 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' Why change winning formations?

Hope it was just a blip, but it was an utterly embarrassing blip that will have the likes of Gillingham, (who should walk away with this league now), Burton & Coventry wringing their hands that our form has suddenly sunk without trace.

Come on you Saddlers, get us to the Championship before I cark!!! :lol: :lol:


You never know, AM, there is life in the old dog yet... :wink:

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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:11 pm

Thanks folks! :D :D :D

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Andy W Taylor
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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:07 pm

PT wrote:Just one last thing on yesterday's game. Jordan Cook went off with a cut. The ref waited through several phases of play and until the ball went out of play before allowing him back on. I think this was a complete mis-interpretation of the laws of the game. Whilst it is at the refs discretion, the only reason for such a delay would be that the ref needed to ensure that the bleeding had stopped. I didn't see him examine Cook in any way, shape or form so must conclude that he felt the ball needed to go out before he he could wave him back on which is wrong.

The standard of officiating this season is probably worst I've ever seen, but if the refs don't know the rules then it is even worse than I thought.


Wondered if anyone would mention this as it was the most animated our fans got all afternoon! :lol:

The relevant rule (from the official FIFA guide for the 2015/6 season - http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/FootballDevelopment/Refereeing/02/36/01/11/LawsofthegamewebEN_Neutral.pdf) says that the referee:

"ensures that any player bleeding from a wound leaves the field of play. The
player may only return on receiving a signal from the referee, who must be
satisfied that the bleeding has stopped"

No discretion as such - the ref had to be "satisfied" that the bleeding had stopped rather than just take Cook/Whitney's word for it BEFORE he could allow him back on the pitch. In late November there were also updated guidelines issued to refs by the FA regarding head injuries and concussions (http://www.thefa.com/~/media/files/pdf/my-football/the-fa-concussion-guidelines-2015.ashx?la=en) so he might have been acting in accordance to how these more stringent instructions, brought in to protect players, are now being interpreted.

Play was still going on well away from where Cook was standing on the halfway line (as it was most of the time he was on the pitch!! :evil:), so neither the ref nor the linesmen had a chance to check him directly until the ball next went dead. If he'd been on the other side of the pitch then the 4th official could have checked and let the ref know he was OK to come on.

Don't know what you mean when you say he didn't examine Cook after he did hold up play - he only had to satisfy himself that there was no bleeding (i.e. no blood visible seeping through the white bandage) or excessive amount on his shirt/face. He would already have seen the scale of the injury before he went off for treatment and, after he ran over to them, he spent a couple of seconds talking to both Cook and Whitney before allowing him back on so had ample time to use his eyes to see everything now OK (and assure himself no grogginess) without making him lie down or get a stethoscope on him.

I'm not here to defend refs in general and agree that in this instance (and probably many others) it was a hit overkill but, as I say, the new interpretations are there to protect players better (from themselves in many cases) so can't really argue against a ref following proper procedure just because it seemingly worked against us on this one occasion.


BTW If it had been a boxing referee he'd have stopped the game due to us not being in a fit state to defend ourselves way before half time!!! :wink:

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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:00 am

Regarding the ref, it was my understanding that he wanted to check for blood - and he did seem to inspect the lad for blood for a while, but also spent time remonstrating with Jon Whitney.

The standard of refs this season has been appalling - I think it was you PT who posted something about there being a first-half "amnesty" nowadays, where players can pretty much get away with anything.

There was a perfect example of this against Rochdale - their right back, number 27, for example, he got skinned by Anthony Forde, and proceeded to tug his shirt back bringing Forde down and stopping the counter attack. Thats a straight forward yellow card all day long.

Then, in the 2nd half, the very same player did exactly the same thing and got booked.

There's absolutely no excuse for that type of refereeing - it's a booking, plain and simple.

latviancheese
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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:10 pm

Its consistency that refs dont have.

They are all over the place.

Also, the linesmen at this level are shocking.

Surely, it cannot be hard to train these people up properly?

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Cheesebag
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Re: Rochdale (H) League One, 2 January 3pm

Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:56 pm

Not at the races at all... bad day, move on

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