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Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Reports and reaction from the 2014-2015 season as Walsall finished 3rd in League 1
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OldPenkSaddler
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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:25 am

There is no substitute for a bit of quality in the side and we have none. Smith has brought in average players AGAIN and concentrated on the wrong positions.

If we had Cassidy up front with Bradshaw we would have won.

We will get mullered on a regular basis if we continue with that formation because neither Downing nor Taylor are good enough.

What has Smith been doing over the summer?

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:28 am

Surprised people are giving O'Connor MOM, to me he was the main culprit for the goal, just head it out for a throw in ffs, instead he lets guy beat him who then runs away and crosses if for Forte.

With the 3 at the back you really need one of the CBs to be quick and good on the ball to bring it out, not sure who was doing that yesterday, Taylor?

Will reserve judgement until I see it live v Bury...if it hasn't been ditched.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:33 am

OldPenkSaddler wrote:
What has Smith been doing over the summer?


I may have mis-heard but I think he said it had been quiet and he'd had his phone turned off most of the time.

This was on the SSN thing where they went round all the clubs and that kid asked Dean far better questions than the "journalist"

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:44 am

I don't think 1-1 yesterday was necessarily a bad result. There's plenty taking the view that "we should be beating teams like Oldham at home," but I actually thought they looked like a pretty handy side. The fact they kept last season's top scorer on the bench until late on shows they probably did a half decent job on the recruitment side of things over the summer. Cassidy was a real handful all afternoon.

I'm all for playing this new system, but we definitely have some issues to iron out soon of it's to work long term. We didn't get the ball to the wing-backs enough, which is a problem when they're supposedly your extra men going forward. We also had a situation for the last ten minutes (before we switched to a 4-4-2) where Taylor inexplicably started playing as a left back with Henry more or less doing the same. Because of that, O'Conmor got dragged further over to the left too and suddenly there were gaps everywhere. Their goal was a case in point - look where O'Connor and Downing ended up when the ball came in.

I also thought we got completely overrun in the middle of midfield. Chambers started well before fading badly, and Mantom looked sluggish at best all afternoon. It felt like we were too flat in there - all too often Oldham found a gap either between our front three and midfield two, or behind our midfield two just in front of our back three. The two in midfield don't necessarily need to hold hands and play right alongside eachother all the time.

Cook really did look out of his depth. For a player who claims to be a striker, I can't understand why he looked so lethargic playing up there yesterday. Although I expect Lalkovic to be the preferred option for most of the season, Morris needs to come in next week and run the channels from time to time, because Cook didn't do that once yesterday.

Constructive criticisms aside, there were plenty of positives:
- Etheridge looks decent and comes for absolutely every cross from a set piece. He'll get caught out a few times this season, but at least you know where you stand with a goalie who does that.
- O'Connor looked very solid at the back despite being given a tough time by Cassidy.
- Henry and Demetroiu get up and down that touch line very effectively. We just have to get the ball to them more often.
- Bradshaw being a marked man does have the potential to create more space for Sawyers - if they can get close enough to eachother, as they did for the goal. Both played pretty well without quite giving their defence the runaround.

I think an element of yesterday's performance was a case of teething problems with the new system and in that respect, Smith can't really win. He keeps the squad together for continuity but cancels that out with a system they've barely played before in a search for more goals, or he plays the same system as before and gets derided for being stubborn. I saw enough yesterday to suggest the new system could work, but with a fully-fit squad to choose from he needs to get the personnel right first.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:51 am

PT wrote:Yesterday he was being out-flanked by some wiley old foxes who knew their way through a third division game. Yesterday he was up against a rookie and was completely done in a game where we looked relieved to hang on for a point at home to the most average of average sides in a very average league.

Just to play devil's advocate here, how do we know after one game whether Oldham even are the most average of sides in this league?

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:21 am

WFC_Rob wrote:
PT wrote:Yesterday he was being out-flanked by some wiley old foxes who knew their way through a third division game. Yesterday he was up against a rookie and was completely done in a game where we looked relieved to hang on for a point at home to the most average of average sides in a very average league.

Just to play devil's advocate here, how do we know after one game whether Oldham even are the most average of sides in this league?


My Walsall debut was the 74-75 season. I think in the subsequent 41 seasons ive probably watched around 1,000 third division games. Yesterday to me, was the definition of average over those thousand games. Seen far worse teams - seen far better.

If Oldham are much better than average this year then this season's league is probably weaker than average. But with a new young manager learning his trade, they may improve. We'll see.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:24 am

Just a note on yesterday and our manager. He was found out tactically by a rookie who was taking charge of his first league match as manager. I have mainly sat on the fence regarding DS but yesterday just showed up the same inadequacies as previous seasons. The playing staff and managerial staff need a kick up the arse. Did Gamble say in the media that we had a bigger budget to put pressure on DS? Perhaps just perhaps the board may want more this season.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:25 am

WFC_Rob wrote:
PT wrote:Yesterday he was being out-flanked by some wiley old foxes who knew their way through a third division game. Yesterday he was up against a rookie and was completely done in a game where we looked relieved to hang on for a point at home to the most average of average sides in a very average league.

Just to play devil's advocate here, how do we know after one game whether Oldham even are the most average of sides in this league?


Oldham will be nowhere near top 6, they've been in this division for seemingly ever which gives you an indication they don't tend to be at either end much.

Have a bottom half budget, unknown as manager, they started last season well enough but were still struggling at the end of the season.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:31 am

caldy wrote:Just a note on yesterday and our manager. He was found out tactically by a rookie who was taking charge of his first league match as manager. I have mainly sat on the fence regarding DS but yesterday just showed up the same inadequacies as previous seasons. The playing staff and managerial staff need a kick up the arse. Did Gamble say in the media that we had a bigger budget to put pressure on DS? Perhaps just perhaps the board may want more this season.


Which is probabl/possibly the reason he hasn't spent the increased budget ? For the life of me if he has I can't see where it's gone. If they are paying Lalkovic a kinds ransom, then it's a piss poor signing to he honest.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:11 am

After a promising start and a cracking finish from Sawyers another lacklustre performance.

I don't think this is due to systems or formation, I think it's mostly psychological.

None of them looked like winners yesterday. When they had the ball they gave it away; when they didn't have the ball they struggled to get it back.

Plus points:
Ethridge has promise. Henry and Demetriou likewise.

The rest looked fudge before a ball had been kicked and why Smith didn't change it after 60mins God only knows.

Leadership urgently required on (and possibly off) the pitch.

Other than that it was great to be at a football match on a sunny Saturday afternoon.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:16 am

Good first what? 15-20 minutes, great goal in that time too. After that we got completely found out and we never looked to change it up, which is where Smith's stubbornness seemed to have crept in again. Lucky to draw in the end, pressed constantly Oldham and I really did think we're gonna lose this.

Seems like more of the same but you never fully know, only one game in to be fair, be an idiot to completely judge.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:25 am

caldy wrote:Just a note on yesterday and our manager. He was found out tactically by a rookie who was taking charge of his first league match as manager. I have mainly sat on the fence regarding DS but yesterday just showed up the same inadequacies as previous seasons. The playing staff and managerial staff need a kick up the arse. Did Gamble say in the media that we had a bigger budget to put pressure on DS? Perhaps just perhaps the board may want more this season.


I have criticised our Manager over the past few years but regarding yesterday and a new system he is in a no win situation. The way forward this season has to be to score more goals and arguably with Sawyers being our best and most influential player he needs a system to best use his skills. He is not effective in a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 system, therefore the way to achieve aim is 3-5-2, and as most supporters were crying out for two strikers last season this may be the way forward, time will tell.

The problem yesterday was more about poor individual performances than systems. Cook is not the answer up front and just looks completely off the pace, no runs in behind, no holding the ball up and generally offering very little, Morris should be given the chance to play up there, at least we would have more movement and running in behind and more energy. Central midfield was poor yesterday, at no stage of the game did we dominate in that area, hopefully a bad day at the office for Mantom and Chambers but if we cannot get hold of that area of the pitch the supply to our wingbacks will suffer and they will not be effective, don't think Flanagan is the answer at the moment so a new face may be the answer. Finally we desperately need a dominant centre half, doesn't matter what the system is we have to find a ball winning centre half, we went into last season weak in this area and have gone into the new season exactly the same, it can't be that difficult to find the answer, other teams have done it,let's hope something is lined up!

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:49 am

WFC_Rob wrote:
PT wrote:Yesterday he was being out-flanked by some wiley old foxes who knew their way through a third division game. Yesterday he was up against a rookie and was completely done in a game where we looked relieved to hang on for a point at home to the most average of average sides in a very average league.

Just to play devil's advocate here, how do we know after one game whether Oldham even are the most average of sides in this league?


They won't be in the top 6 come the end of the season. The stated aim of the club (mentioned by Smith, Gamble and many of the players) is a serious tilt at the play-off's. Now I know all the mutterings about "we can't expect to just turn up and beat teams" but any team with serious ambitions of a top 6 finish really needs to be putting teams like Oldham to the sword.

People are bleating about "it's only 1 game in". Does the previous two seasons not count for anything? Does Smith have the slate wiped clean every August? It may only be one game but the same failings are clear to be seen by anybody that wants to look. If the club have REAL ambitions for a play-off spot I hope they don't dither and dather too long if the same old same old continues.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:06 am

A decent first half followed by a poor second one. This formation left us more open, but we also looked more dangerous going forward in the first 20 mins or so, so I didn't mind too much. However, in the second half we remained just as vulnerable at the back but lost nearly all of the attacking prowess.

Oldham kept the ball well, but were limited in what they could do with it. Nine times out of ten their final ball was terrible. I think a good side would have put four or five past us yesterday.

Positives
We scored a lovely goal
Henry looks a real prospect and plays without fear
Etheridge was solid enough

Negatives
Cook was very poor, looked lost to be honest.
Deano was outdone by the Oldham manager who changed the game
Oldham introduced two good players from the bench - Dunn and Forte - we seemed to change nothing even though it was obvious the game had gotten away from us
Oldham seemed a lot more determined and up for the fight, I think they wanted it more

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:23 am

Last edited by Guest on Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:16 pm

Same old mistakes from Smith again.

He is a reactive manager - not proactive. It was blindingly obvious what they were doing in the second half and the goal was inevitable. Then, to change to 1 up front with 5 minutes left AT HOME is just ludicrous.

Our squad is unbalanced and we basically have one striker. Absolutely ridiculous.

The worrying thing, is that when Milan came on up front yesterday, we could not make an attacking change that wouldn't have resulted in a different formation. The decision to take Rico off was also stupid.

I hope he learns. Getting old now.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:29 pm

Neuromantic wrote:Same old mistakes from Smith again.

He is a reactive manager - not proactive. It was blindingly obvious what they were doing in the second half and the goal was inevitable. Then, to change to 1 up front with 5 minutes left AT HOME is just ludicrous.

Our squad is unbalanced and we basically have one striker. Absolutely ridiculous.

The worrying thing, is that when Milan came on up front yesterday, we could not make an attacking change that wouldn't have resulted in a different formation. The decision to take Rico off was also stupid.

I hope he learns. Getting old now.


What is your point here? Seems reasonable enough to hang on for the point in that position when Oldham had the momentum.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:12 pm

Andy_Petterson wrote:
Neuromantic wrote:Same old mistakes from Smith again.

He is a reactive manager - not proactive. It was blindingly obvious what they were doing in the second half and the goal was inevitable. Then, to change to 1 up front with 5 minutes left AT HOME is just ludicrous.

Our squad is unbalanced and we basically have one striker. Absolutely ridiculous.

The worrying thing, is that when Milan came on up front yesterday, we could not make an attacking change that wouldn't have resulted in a different formation. The decision to take Rico off was also stupid.

I hope he learns. Getting old now.


What is your point here? Seems reasonable enough to hang on for the point in that position when Oldham had the momentum.


His point is WE WERE AT HOME and rather than be Mr Boring as normal why not try and change something and go for the win rather than defend for a point.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:35 pm

IHTC. wrote:
Andy_Petterson wrote:
Neuromantic wrote:Same old mistakes from Smith again.

He is a reactive manager - not proactive. It was blindingly obvious what they were doing in the second half and the goal was inevitable. Then, to change to 1 up front with 5 minutes left AT HOME is just ludicrous.

Our squad is unbalanced and we basically have one striker. Absolutely ridiculous.

The worrying thing, is that when Milan came on up front yesterday, we could not make an attacking change that wouldn't have resulted in a different formation. The decision to take Rico off was also stupid.

I hope he learns. Getting old now.


What is your point here? Seems reasonable enough to hang on for the point in that position when Oldham had the momentum.


His point is WE WERE AT HOME and rather than be Mr Boring as normal why not try and change something and go for the win rather than defend for a point.



What more do you people want? We've won 15 and scored 50 in our last 47 home games. You'll be wanting the moon on a stick next :roll:

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:52 pm

IHTC. wrote:
Andy_Petterson wrote:
Neuromantic wrote:Same old mistakes from Smith again.

He is a reactive manager - not proactive. It was blindingly obvious what they were doing in the second half and the goal was inevitable. Then, to change to 1 up front with 5 minutes left AT HOME is just ludicrous.

Our squad is unbalanced and we basically have one striker. Absolutely ridiculous.

The worrying thing, is that when Milan came on up front yesterday, we could not make an attacking change that wouldn't have resulted in a different formation. The decision to take Rico off was also stupid.

I hope he learns. Getting old now.


What is your point here? Seems reasonable enough to hang on for the point in that position when Oldham had the momentum.


His point is WE WERE AT HOME and rather than be Mr Boring as normal why not try and change something and go for the win rather than defend for a point.


Because there was a risk that Oldham would win if we did. :idea:

Criticise Smith for letting Oldham back in the game if you like. But given they looked the better side at the end, I didn't have a problem with switching to 4-5-1

PS you get the same number of points for a win away as at home.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:55 pm

You do get the same amount of points for a win home and away. That said, our home form has been horrible for a long while now. It's been dull and boring, and ultimately stopped me buying a season ticket for me and the kids. I go away too, but I mean 300 is about as good as it gets away these days, the rest of the fans are judging on home games only.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:05 pm

Andy_Petterson wrote:
IHTC. wrote:
Andy_Petterson wrote:
Neuromantic wrote:Same old mistakes from Smith again.

He is a reactive manager - not proactive. It was blindingly obvious what they were doing in the second half and the goal was inevitable. Then, to change to 1 up front with 5 minutes left AT HOME is just ludicrous.

Our squad is unbalanced and we basically have one striker. Absolutely ridiculous.

The worrying thing, is that when Milan came on up front yesterday, we could not make an attacking change that wouldn't have resulted in a different formation. The decision to take Rico off was also stupid.

I hope he learns. Getting old now.


What is your point here? Seems reasonable enough to hang on for the point in that position when Oldham had the momentum.


His point is WE WERE AT HOME and rather than be Mr Boring as normal why not try and change something and go for the win rather than defend for a point.


Because there was a risk that Oldham would win if we did. :idea:

Criticise Smith for letting Oldham back in the game if you like. But given they looked the better side at the end, I didn't have a problem with switching to 4-5-1

PS you get the same number of points for a win away as at home.


I'd rather gamble and go for 3 points rather than accept 1 especially at home. Really cannot understand why people will so readily accept mediocrity,where's the ambition effing gone?

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:10 pm

Smith has always been happier not to lose, than consider trying to win a game. That was what 3 points for a win was brought in for all those years ago. 3 draws is the equivalent of 2 defeats in points terms.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:29 pm

Could you imagine Bristol City last season or Wolves 2 years ago trying to see out a draw at home with 5 minutes to go? Would they heck as like they would have thrown the kitchen sink at Oldham. That's the winning mentality Smithout does not have.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:39 pm

IHTC. wrote:Could you imagine Bristol City last season or Wolves 2 years ago trying to see out a draw at home with 5 minutes to go? Would they heck as like they would have thrown the kitchen sink at Oldham. That's the winning mentality Smithout does not have.



Yes, That and about £10million quid to spend on wages...

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:13 pm

Andy_Petterson wrote:
IHTC. wrote:Could you imagine Bristol City last season or Wolves 2 years ago trying to see out a draw at home with 5 minutes to go? Would they heck as like they would have thrown the kitchen sink at Oldham. That's the winning mentality Smithout does not have.



Yes, That and about £10million quid to spend on wages...


What a complete cop out that is in the context of this discussion. you don't need any money (let alone millions) to install a winning mentality. You could install it in a Sunday pub team. It doesn't mean they have to win every game but they will bloody bust a gut to try to. None of that with Mr Mediocrity, too happy to quietly take the draw and reel off a list of excuses for the lack of points gained.

This, "we should be happy with our lot, and not demand too much" mentality has spread from Uncle Cyprus, down to the board, manager, players and even fans are now toeing the company line.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:19 pm

Andy_Petterson wrote:
IHTC. wrote:Could you imagine Bristol City last season or Wolves 2 years ago trying to see out a draw at home with 5 minutes to go? Would they heck as like they would have thrown the kitchen sink at Oldham. That's the winning mentality Smithout does not have.



Yes, That and about £10million quid to spend on wages...




:lol: Smith apologists at their very best.

You can imagine it at 5 pm

'what a great point that was'. And spunking over themselves because Smith had managed to secure a point at home against Oldham.


:roll:

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:23 pm

IHTC. wrote:Smith had managed to secure a point at home against Oldham.


It's what dreams are made of mate, what dreams are made of!

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:30 pm

tinned wrote:
Andy_Petterson wrote:
IHTC. wrote:Could you imagine Bristol City last season or Wolves 2 years ago trying to see out a draw at home with 5 minutes to go? Would they heck as like they would have thrown the kitchen sink at Oldham. That's the winning mentality Smithout does not have.



Yes, That and about £10million quid to spend on wages...


What a complete cop out that is in the context of this discussion. you don't need any money (let alone millions) to install a winning mentality. You could install it in a Sunday pub team. It doesn't mean they have to win every game but they will bloody bust a gut to try to. None of that with Mr Mediocrity, too happy to quietly take the draw and reel off a list of excuses for the lack of points gained.

This, "we should be happy with our lot, and not demand too much" mentality has spread from Uncle Cyprus, down to the board, manager, players and even fans are now toeing the company line.


Er no it's called reality. It saves me from going through life with the emotional development of a toddler. :idea:

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Re: Oldham Athletic (H) League One August 8th 3pm

Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:30 pm

IHTC. wrote:
Andy_Petterson wrote:
IHTC. wrote:Could you imagine Bristol City last season or Wolves 2 years ago trying to see out a draw at home with 5 minutes to go? Would they heck as like they would have thrown the kitchen sink at Oldham. That's the winning mentality Smithout does not have.



Yes, That and about £10million quid to spend on wages...




:lol: Smith apologists at their very best.

You can imagine it at 5 pm

'what a great point that was'. And spunking over themselves because Smith had managed to secure a point at home against Oldham.


:roll:


Let us know when you've finished the imaginary conversations with imaginary people.

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