Scunthorpe United (H) League One 10th Jan, 3pm

[philthesaddler]

Phil I am perplexed with my thoughts regarding you and your stance.

I find myself angry that whenever we win it is because we/smith got lucky and you barely comment yet when we lose you are so quick to pounce and say how crap we are and how Smith is such a poor manager, and I think this is were you lose your arguments because if you were to let the dust settle and say comment at 9pm rather that 4.59 or how soon it is people would take you more seriously. Annoyingly I find myself agreeing with alot of what you say, apart from the Purkis thing imho he's our best RB at the club who can make 30yards passes with his eyes closed and offers an attacking outlet.

I am never going to be Smith's biggest fan and a part of me thinks he should go as he has been an extremely lucky manager but if he gets us to Wembley (and at 40years old I thought I may never get there) then he can stay aslong as he wants, yes I am that fickle.

p.s you are absolutely spot on regarding the budget, people harp on about how small it is yet Smith has has virtually wasted most of it on players who we have absolutely no need for and struggle in areas we are desperate for players. And then people say he has no options on the bench, well I am sorry but who's flaming fault is that?

I ain't fickle, I just call a spade a spade, and Smiths teams are nowhere near competing for a playoff spot, yet some people seem to be blinding by this weird sexy football mantra, and the fact he's been in charge for 4 years.

Look at our last 2 victories.

Firstly, mk Dons. We were gifted a soft own goal after 4mins and then spent the remainder of the first half camped in our own half, God only knows how mk Dons didnt score, ODonnell once again made a couple of great saves.

Then as the game wore on, mk pushed forward and left gaps at the back, which we exploited.

My classification of that game was lucky - we only won by virtue of the facts we were handed an early goal and their wastefulness in front of goal.

By that I mean, more often than not, MK Dons would have put those chances away and the result would have been very different.

Yet, Smith pats himself and the players on the back, for what was IMO an organised performance witha hefty slice of luck.

Secondly, Preston away - if it weren't for ODonnell, we could have been out of the game and the tie by half time. Again, I classify that as luck, 9 times out of 10 a striker presented with chances like those that Beckford got, would have buried them.

Second half we were fantastic btw - we held the ball better, and closed Gallacher down better, but we only scored thanks to 2 pieces of luck - firstly, the keepers poor clearance which went straight to Sawyers, which lead to the free kick from which Forde scored. Then, the poor pass back that lead to Bradshaw scoring.

So I think it is only fair to say that the last 2 games that we have won we have been very lucky. I know luck comes and goes, but it shouldn't be the basis of your results, and when it does form a large part of your results, that is a warning sign.

In between those two wins, we've been thrashed by Swindon, Coventry and today Scunthorpe ... And yet people refuse to admit there are serious issues with Smiths management.

The time at which I post shouldn't have an impact on the opinion of those who read it. I'm lucky enough to live nearby and I am usually home quite quickly and like to post quite quickly whilst it's fresh in my mind. If people find themselves disagreeing with what I say because of the time it appears in front of their eyes then I would suggest that is their problem, not mine.

[ShyTallKnight]

Call me stupid (and most people do) but I thought the booing was for the substitution of Sawyers rather than aimed at him i.e. indirectly at Smith

[philthesaddler]

IHTC, idiots like the above don't bother me one iota. If that's the sum total of their considered opinion on wfc, then we're intellectually light years apart

[deldras]

If your at the game then why the hell are you posting on UTS anyway? Football has changed....

Armchair fan criticizes those that showed up and kept him informed with a first hand experience as opposed to......oh never mind :roll:

I take it you weren't at the game ..... again!

whatchutalkinabout?..........funk's Walsall's #1 fan :shock:

[bush360]

Myself from today I am concerned, we have no plan B, we went two goals down after dominating the Iron, from a defence perspective it is not working, as other posters have stated. We have 7 full back and no real centre halves. We need a dominating CH
Got to stop playing the same home and away, Ned Kelly and Dobbins had done their homework on us and know how to stop us playing.
We must be able to change the game
If Smiths plan B was to trow 3 up front and take off the wide men heaven help us as Grimes, Manset and Tom had no idea, see how many men can you get in the box with no room
We need alternatives and different types of players to bring on another 3 pass and move men will not work, we have tried 80 mins of that

[mosaddler]

On chances created a draw would have been a fair result. ROD did not have to do much apart from picking the ball out of the net.

We started off well in the opening minutes and had a few good attempts at goal. They got into the game alot more after the own goal.
2nd half we started well and were on top and the goal came from a good move.
as for the penalty dont know why the defenders had to make challange as the ball was kicked ahead from the player who went down and he would not have got the ball.
then 2 minutes later another went in and that was it.

the wind helped them out in the 1st half and I would have taken off Sawyers at half time and played manset and be more direct. Bradshaw was isolated today and wanted a partner to play alongside him. Dont agree with the sarcastic cheering when Romaine went off. my motm would have been Taylor.

anyways keep the faith

UTS

[SaddlerSteve]

Still, we've had 17 shots to their 5.

Really? Jesus.

Funny old game.

18 now, 6 on target. They've had 3 on target and scored 4. (See above)

At half-time we'd had 70% possession and were 2-0 down.

Really?? Why don't we lobby the league to scrap the whole "goals win games" rule and ask them to award points based on possession instead, we'd be top of them league!

Lol, calm down Phil.
I wasn't suggesting it was a positive. More that we had shed loads of the ball but did bugger all with it.

My frustration with these last 3 home games is that we're better than the performances suggest.
The majority of the goals we've conceded have come from moments of ineptitude from our own players.
We have patches of games where we're playing well and creating chances then lapses of concentration cost us and it all goes pear shaped very quickly.

I don't agree with Sawyers getting booed but I think he had one of his poor games (along with most of the team). He's got the ability but he generally either has a good game or a bad one. There doesn't seem to be an in between. At times he's his own worst enemy. He seems to have an obsession with trying to cram as many little back heels and flicks into a game as possible... mostly which don't come off and end up in him losing the ball. Frustrating at the best of times but absolutely infuriating when we're losing and trying to get back into a game. If he kept it simple instead of showboating I think he'd actually have far more great games.

[WFC_Rob]

Call me stupid (and most people do) but I thought the booing was for the substitution of Sawyers rather than aimed at him i.e. indirectly at Smith

The substitution didnt get booed though - it got cheered. The Forde substitution got booed, and rightly so because he'd been our only attacking outlet in the second half.

[Big Dave wfc]

IHTC, idiots like the above don't bother me one iota. If that's the sum total of their considered opinion on wfc, then we're intellectually light years apart

as it stands phil the top 6 are as follows
1.bristol, 2 Swindon, 3 mk dons, 4 preston, 5 Bradford, 6 sheff utd

teams with far bigger budgets, bigger attendances etc etc...... you seem to think a manager could come in and make us sweep sides away to break into this, for someone with what you say is intellectually light years ahead, id go as far to say your not far short of a numpty.

btw I am very well aware of smiths floors, and as blatant and obvious as they are he seems unable to change them, on the flip side I believe things could be worse, not to keep bleating on but we are only all be it a very difficult game away from making it to Wembley, 6 points off the play offs although I think we wont make it.

but to be in-touch of the top 6 as above with our resource, squad as paper thin as it is, to me it shows smith is not a complete failure, but for some reason you want to crucify the man for something that I don't think can be argued with, he genuinely cares about this club and wants to take us forward, cant say the same about the few managers before him.

[Chomper]

You don't fluke a lucky win by three or two goals away from home to sides in the top 4. Lucky wins are 1-0 deflections!

And we don't have 7 full backs, we have 8 defenders, people who can play across the back line, 2 of which are kids whom I don't really count.

Smith needs to seriously think about our home tactics, they clearly aren't working and haven't been for some time.

[kshammer]

Scunthorpe were so average it was untrue yet we were cack beyond belief. Another slow start cost us, but yet at 2-1 we actually had some momentum and looked like we'd get back into it - oh how wrong. J Chambers is NOT a centre half (never was, unless as cover for injury etc). Cook is shockingly bad in any defensive duty (if he actually bothers to come back) and the whole team lacks strength and physicality, something that i've banged on about all season (and last) and explains why we play better against teams who try to play a bit and cack against the so called, worse teams.

How our fans can have a go at Sawyers is beyond me. Noone is immune from criticism and it was not his best game today but was not near our worse performer. I read Preston fans comments saying he was the best player on the pitch - a pitch with Davies, Beckford, Gallagher etc on it - yet a few idiots can't see what he brings to the team. Why wasn't J Chambers, O'Connor, Cook or any of the others had a go at - I heard one bloke shouting that he needs to learn to tackle, but funnily enough didn't need to shout it at our defenders... after conceding 4 fudge goals! He has a alot to learn about keeping it simple at times but should do it elsewhere and be appreciated, and then we can replace him with Grimes or Baxendale who will run around loads but create jack.

Finally, am I the only one who reads phil's posts with a Blakey from On The Buses voice in my head?

[kshammer]

Miguel Llera did exactly that job for Scunthorpe today. Missed a chance getting him in on a free last summer

Spot on - we said the same. Cracking centre half.

[SWS1]

FFS, they had three shots on target all game and won 4 - 1.
FFS WTF is going on?
It's ridiculous.
:evil:

[m&m]

Both Chambers bros were awful today but Smith likes them....
Their age is starting to show.

[Chomper]

They were just lucky... :?

[Ghostofwalsallpast]

IHTC, idiots like the above don't bother me one iota. If that's the sum total of their considered opinion on wfc, then we're intellectually light years apart

as it stands phil the top 6 are as follows
1.bristol, 2 Swindon, 3 mk dons, 4 preston, 5 Bradford, 6 sheff utd

teams with far bigger budgets, bigger attendances etc etc...... you seem to think a manager could come in and make us sweep sides away to break into this,

I seem to remember........

1. Fulham
2. Walsall
3. Man City

So it is achievable

Achieved with a small budget but used wisely by a man who could organise and used those things called Wingers and, god forbid, played two up top.

Smith is Smith, a man who does genuinely care about the club and tries his best but is sadly lacking and will produce mid table security/the odd flirt with relegation. Our requirement of needing another 20 odd points from the remaing 20 odd games will very much depend on Super Tom's availability and form.

Smith will no doubt go down in history as a hero if he gets us to Wembley but given his set up for home games we have a real battle remaining to get there.

[Whitters]

I'm all for dynasties and DNA and suchlike but losing 4-1 at home is donalding Scunthorpe useless.
FFS is it still Christmas?

I've just watched a doco on the American Samoan football team who famously were the worst team in the World Cup. Probably still are.
We are slightly better than them.
Sometimes.

[redalways]

We had four attacking players today, three of whom rarely score and cannot defend. Is it any wonder the two defensive midfielders struggle, Cain being inexperienced. Is it any wonder we concede from crosses, some of which could be prevented with effective cover for the fullbacks.

In the days of Richard Money, we played with one winger and one wide midfield player. Would it not be worth while to try Kinsella or Henry in front of one of the full backs? Why is Kinsella out of the squad when reports were so good early season. An explanation is long overdue.

We are really missing Mantom as he can defend and support the forwards. Sawyers cannot do both.

Our man management of Grimes is also dreadfull. After his disallowed goal against Swindon, I thought that might give him some confidence. However he has not been given any opportunities recently other than the last 10 minutes of a game. If he cannot score in the first team he should be playing in the reserves, the youth team or be loaned out to the Dog and Duck until he starts performing. We really need him scoring along side Bradshaw.

As a general rule if you are not improving, you start to go downhill. We are not going to reach the top six and I fear we will be relegated in the next year or two unless something positive happens very soon. I certainly hope I am wrong.

[Guest]

WARNING: NOT SUITABLE FOR SMITHINS :(

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Voy7-SVVqnY

[sallian]

Today was extremely disappointing, especially after the positivity following the win on Wednesday. We really don't have a formula for beating teams who are strong, physical and defensively organised. When we got into their last third, we just lack any ideas or creativity. Lots of possession in their half but no penetration or pressure to worry or concern the opposition. I feel sorry for Bradshaw yet again who was isolated all game with no real service. We were very poor defensive today, the back four were all over the place at times. I would like to see Purkiss replace O'Connor, from what i've seen so far this season, he hasn't impressed at all.

I must say that i am more of a fan of Smith than a hater and believe that he is doing a decent job. Many people constantly moan about us never reaching for the play-offs or the top 10. These deluded people need to wake up! Please have a look at the current league table at the top 6 teams. Their budgets are significantly larger than ours, compared to our depleted budget after each season. I can acknowledge that Smith can be tactically inept at times and is reluctant to make changes and adapt to a different variety of teams. However, he can only operate and manage with what he has. It's not as if he has a wide range of quality on the bench to come on and change a game. In my opinion, he has made many great acquisitions considering our modest budget and when we do start to have some degree of success, the players get sold. Some fans need to join us back in reality and realise Dean Smith isn't a miracle worker!

No Walsall are not losing due to budget....Walsall do have a squad capable of reaching play offs....as Dean Smith said himself. That is one of the good things he has done, gathered good players with no money. And many performances and results this season have shown Walsall can compete with the best in the division...However the failing is in monotone tactics and formation.... The failing is in no flexibility in style, formation and tactics...along with some poor decision making and lack of concentration on the pitch.

[sallian]

I'm angry after that performance. I turned up today expecting it to be a real battle, and I also expected there to be something of a hangover after Wednesday, but to self destruct like that is unacceptable.

The fact we started so well suggests there wasn't a hangover from Wednesday at all - in actual fact, we looked full of confidence, played some really tidy stuff, and probably could have gone ahead had one of those chances gone in.

24 minutes in, Cain wildly smashes what should have been a relatively simple ball out to O'Connor whose first touch wasn't the best, the cross comes in and we're one down. We never really recovered from that, but for a 10 minute spell at the start of the second half. Just to say, while I don't think O'Connor was any more at fault than Cain for the first goal, he's so much worse than Purkiss in every respect, I've got no clues as to why he's in the side.

For me, the reason we'be been so poor at home and the reason we've been leaking so many goals is one and the same - we lack bottle. We lack the bottle to make that run beyond the striker, or drive that early low cross into the box, just like we lack the bottle to regroup and get ourselves back into the game when we go behind. Downing and Chambers were a bag of nerves for most of today's game and if you're talking about building foundations from the back, that really doesn't bode well for the rest of the side. Forget signing a striker as backup to Bradshaw, or a winger to fill in when Forde/Cook has a bad spell - surely there's a case to be made for signing a centre half who's that bit more no-nonsense?

As for the squad itself, today showed how paper thin it is. Even at 4-1 down, it took Smith a few minutes to make any changes - probably because he knew that none of his subs were likely to come on and change the game. Of course, we could go back to the crux of the issue being a poor use of his budget, but that's probably one for another thread.

Finally, let's bring up the reception Sawyers got when he went off. If you're one of the vocal minority who booed him, sod off down to Villa park. People wonder why we struggle to keep our best players and there's part of the answer. He had a reasonably decent game today after a great performance on Wednesday and without him, we'd be right in the mire. I always wonder whether that's a position some would prefer to see us in though.

Preston have every right to think they can still get to Wembley yet. I just hope we stay true to recent form and nick something at Colchester next week.

The reason why subs have no impact is because he he only does like for like position swaps....and doesn't change the shape...he also makes changes too late. And Sawyers wasn't very good on Wednesday...Baxendale is better in his position and would probably create more chances and score more goals

[sallian]

Our man management of Grimes is also dreadfull. After his disallowed goal against Swindon, I thought that might give him some confidence. However he has not been given any opportunities recently other than the last 10 minutes of a game. If he cannot score in the first team he should be playing in the reserves, the youth team or be loaned out to the Dog and Duck until he starts performing. We really need him scoring along side Bradshaw.

As a general rule if you are not improving, you start to go downhill. We are not going to reach the top six and I fear we will be relegated in the next year or two unless something positive happens very soon. I certainly hope I am wrong.

YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT

He is being made impotent by Smith in every way....time, position etc

I think Grimes is probably better than Bradshaw technically...but he is not given a chance at all, if he was alongside Bradshaw even Bradshaw would score more too.

I can't imagine any manager misusing and nullifying his strike force the way Smith has

[SaigonSaddler]

League season over...10 goals at home in three consecutive matches? This is monstrous, Preston walking over us in the second game.....Prestons forward line will have a field day!
The Wembley dream, now just a dream, it aint gonna happen! :(
....it's just diabolical.
5 points clear of the relegation zone, and that's the direction we will be looking towards.
Very sad after Wednesday...The 'drop like a stone' candidates for the second half of the season, looks to be us. :(

And this from the man who stated confidently 'we'd get nothing from MK Dons' and has insisted we'd be relegated for the past five seasons.

I won't rush to the bookies just yet. :|

Thanks. :wink:

[paddy]

Can that 10k cheque we received be spent on a commanding centre back please

[SaigonSaddler]

Oh help, Walsall lost a game. How could this possibly happen?

What a gaggle of wobbly washer-women. Stop flapping.

The usual candidates have reared up, declaring the end of Walsall Football Club as we know it, relegation, doom, despair. Again.

Does it seem logical to blame any and every misfortune on the manager, yet ascribe any half decent player acquistion or positive result down to mere luck? How about a bit of perspective?

And what are the expectations? That somehow it's our turn to commence our tenure in the Championship in a glorious procession, because wait for it, we've done it before. That a different manager would be able to release the innate and thus far untapped potential of the players leading us effortlessly to the promised land.

Grow up and wake up.

The reality is this - we have some decent players and we have a decent first team, capable of beating anyone in the division. But where is the depth in the squad? There isn't any purely as a function of the limited finances we are constricted by, especially the wage structure we are able to offer. To deny this is to deny the unalienable truth.

Yes, I'd like to employ (or keep) a host of talented players in their prime and at the top of their game, a proven manager with the resources to strengthen as and when he see's fit. But that's not where we are. Is it?

[Chomper]

Oh help, Walsall lost a game. How could this possibly happen?

What a gaggle of wobbly washer-women. Stop flapping.

The usual candidates have reared up, declaring the end of Walsall Football Club as we know it, relegation, doom, despair. Again.

Does it seem logical to blame any and every misfortune on the manager, yet ascribe any half decent player acquistion or positive result down to mere luck? How about a bit of perspective?

And what are the expectations? That somehow it's our turn to commence our tenure in the Championship in a glorious procession, because wait for it, we've done it before. That a different manager would be able to release the innate and thus far untapped potential of the players leading us effortlessly to the promised land.

Grow up and wake up.

The reality is this - we have some decent players and we have a decent first team, capable of beating anyone in the division. But where is the depth in the squad? There isn't any purely as a function of the limited finances we are constricted by, especially the wage structure we are able to offer. To deny this is to deny the unalienable truth.

Yes, I'd like to employ (or keep) a host of talented players in their prime and at the top of their game, a proven manager with the resources to strengthen as and when he see's fit. But that's not where we are. Is it?

▲ this ▲

Although I do agree with others that we have to start changing our shape & tactics at 'om. I'd like to see Grimes given a run of games cos I do think he has got something to offer.

[Wragbyred]

Look at our last 2 victories.

Firstly, mk Dons. We were gifted a soft own goal after 4mins and then spent the remainder of the first half camped in our own half, God only knows how mk Dons didnt score, ODonnell once again made a couple of great saves.

Then as the game wore on, mk pushed forward and left gaps at the back, which we exploited.

My classification of that game was lucky - we only won by virtue of the facts we were handed an early goal and their wastefulness in front of goal.

By that I mean, more often than not, MK Dons would have put those chances away and the result would have been very different.

Yet, Smith pats himself and the players on the back, for what was IMO an organised performance witha hefty slice of luck.

Secondly, Preston away - if it weren't for ODonnell, we could have been out of the game and the tie by half time. Again, I classify that as luck, 9 times out of 10 a striker presented with chances like those that Beckford got, would have buried them.

Second half we were fantastic btw - we held the ball better, and closed Gallacher down better, but we only scored thanks to 2 pieces of luck - firstly, the keepers poor clearance which went straight to Sawyers, which lead to the free kick from which Forde scored. Then, the poor pass back that lead to Bradshaw scoring.

MK Dons v Walsall statistics
MK 16 shots 6 on target
WFC 12 shots 5 on target
You think thats a lucky win? :roll: :roll:
The goals at Preston were caused by Walsall players chasing down the ball, whats lucky about that?
And, it may surprise you, but goalkeepers are there to make saves.

Scunthorpe 5 shots 3 on target
WFC 18 shots 6 on target
The Preston game we were very lucky that they didn't put the chance away in the first half, but they didn't and in the end we were clear winners.
Sounds a bit like today don't you think?
Does luck come into it? not really

[chestersaddler]

IHTC, idiots like the above don't bother me one iota. If that's the sum total of their considered opinion on wfc, then we're intellectually light years apart

as it stands phil the top 6 are as follows
1.bristol, 2 Swindon, 3 mk dons, 4 preston, 5 Bradford, 6 sheff utd

teams with far bigger budgets, bigger attendances etc etc...... you seem to think a manager could come in and make us sweep sides away to break into this,

I seem to remember........

1. Fulham
2. Walsall
3. Man City

So it is achievable

Achieved with a small budget but used wisely by a man who could organise and used those things called Wingers and, god forbid, played two up top.

Smith is Smith, a man who does genuinely care about the club and tries his best but is sadly lacking and will produce mid table security/the odd flirt with relegation. Our requirement of needing another 20 odd points from the remaing 20 odd games will very much depend on Super Tom's availability and form.

Smith will no doubt go down in history as a hero if he gets us to Wembley but given his set up for home games we have a real battle remaining to get there.

To compare everything back to the Graydon era will always result in a feeling of underachieviement. It was the pinnacle of our 127 year history and is unlikely to repeat itself anytime soon.

[TheSwift]

As much as 'Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now' is a nice song, it created no atmosphere in the build up as you can't clap along to it like 'Ring of Fire'. Everyone stood there like lemons until the team came out the huddle. Almost laughed at Swifty's beligured efforts to get the stand clapping.

O.G's happen from time to time, unfortunately it was today.

Disgusted about the second goal. I was screaming at Cook to mark his man first time round. Second time he strolls up to the ball and gets nutmegged. Cross. Goal. I'd bring Brandy back because at least he has pace and can and does defend.

Third was never a penalty. Can't blame O'D or Downing really.

Fourth was just onside I think. Deano needs to tell them to carry on playing even if they believe an offside decision has gone against us either end.

Smith can't keep making excuses about the goals like 'one was a wonder goal' and 'one was an own goal' as if they don't count against us. Believe it or not Smith, they are still goals against us. Work on a system that helps prevent this, don't just dismiss them as if they will never happen again.

Forde was excellent again. People were right to boo the substitution as he was by far our most creative player.
Bradshaw had next to no service bar the Cain goal which he assisted.
Cain was poor again actually bar his goal.
Taylor looked back to his best I thought.
Grimes was unlucky at the end and Manset's cameo gave me the impression that he finally has some fitness.
Sawyers was god awful again. Sit him out for a bit as that might give him a kick up the bum. His motm topped off an almost laughable afternoon. Hope this wakes Smith up to the need we must utilise the loan market.

Worried about Preston now!

Uts!

[ToeJoe Jnr]

Did we win or draw yesterday?

The only reason I ask is I am reading a lot about how poor we were offensively yet excuses being made for how bad we were defensively! If I was at the same game as everyone else we conceded four at home for the second time in 3 home games.

The first two goals, while Cain's pass to O'connor was poor and cook switched off (he needs to buck his ideas up as he is offering nothing at the moment) we still could have dealt better with the crosses.

Okay it may not have been a stonewall penalty, but it was a clumsy challenge by Downing who got turned easily again, and remember we had just had a warning shot from the ref who had blown for a penalty previously.

The 4th had Chambers beaten in the air and Downing waving a leg at the knock on! All to easy for Scunthorpe.

Sawyers could have scored a ha trick today and still finished on the losing side and some on here would still hold him accountable for the defeat.

The biggest worry is we are giving even more reasons for Preston to come here and have a real go at us in the JPT as we appear to be content to give goals away at home! A two goal cushion is nothing when you are conceding on average 3 in the last 3 home games.