Coventry (H) League One, 3rd Jan 3pm

[windowman]

I need to see this offside again. At the time I assumed it was a mistake my Downing or Chambers which meant their player wasn't offside when it was through to him. I may be wrong as I was too busy absorbing the flavours of an overpriced yorkie. Officials were useless though. Worst i've seen this season.

It was offside; and tbh had Nouble scored I would have had to change my pants in delight of such daylight robbery. Maybe the assistant was just afraid that Nouble might nut him otherwise - he only put up his flag after the shot had missed.

The challenge on Sawyer was nasty; but boy did Sawyer make a meal of it. That said, any of our players would have done the same.

Ah fair enough :D

:D
whats pusb stand for,is it pay up sky blues ?

Good luck for the rest of the season.

[pumajaguar]

Frustrating, we didn't show up, as always seems to be the case when a top six place is on offer. Overall they deserved to win, although we were unlucky not to equalise in a strong 20 minute spell in the second half, when we hit the post twice and Bradshaw drew a good save.

The rent dodgers are certainly a boggie team for us. They looked a good side in the first half and could have been two or three up, strangely they decided to resort to fouling and time wasting for the second half rather then playing football.

Officials were awful, the ref seemed obsessed with playing advantage rather then giving free kicks. This played into Coventry's hands as they were very physical.

Can't believe some on here saying O'Donnell didn't deserve MOTM. Yes, he did a few dodgy kicks, but more than made up for that by saving a penalty and pulling off another two great stops.

As for his positioning on the first goal, I think the reason behind it was because he had moved forwards expecting Downing to let the ball through but he instead tried to clear it, didn't do a great job, and it dropped to the Coventry player. I don't know if O'Donnell shouted for Downing to leave it, but he certainly should have done as I yelled "leave it" from where I was sitting!

What does Smith think of Manset and Grimes when his first option when chasing a game is to throw on a left back, and not a particularity good one, rather than those two?

I actually thought Baxendale was our brightest attacking midfielder today and the most likely to make something happen. A few nice touches from Sawyers, but it was another underwhelming performance, until his good games outweigh the average and bad, talk of a move to the Championship is fanciful.

Forde had a good 20 minutes or so, but that's all you ever seem to get from him. It's not surprising he seems to make more of an impact when coming off the bench.

[moaning saddler]

well said sadders-you put it much better than me,but I don't agree about O'donnell-his save this afternoon down to his left in the first half was brilliant-the great JW would have been pleased with that. I think he is a good goalkeeper who continues to improve.

Yes, O'Donnell actually kept us in the game in the first half.
Unfortunately, Sadders has a massive blind spot about one particular Walsall player for some unfathomable reason. I can only think that O'Donnell must have caused him or his family some grievous harm.
Make a less than positive comment about anything else to do with WFC, and Sadders is guaranteed to go apoplectic with rage and proclaim his shame at being associated with such disgusting "supporters".
Make a less than positive comment about O'Donnell, and Sadders will be highlighting your text and lauding you to the skies.
Laughable really.

[moaning saddler]

Frustrating, we didn't show up, as always seems to be the case when a top six place is on offer. Overall they deserved to win, although we were unlucky not to equalise in a strong 20 minute spell in the second half, when we hit the post twice and Bradshaw drew a good save.

The rent dodgers are certainly a boggie team for us. They looked a good side in the first half and could have been two or three up, strangely they decided to resort to fouling and time wasting for the second half rather then playing football.

Officials were awful, the ref seemed obsessed with playing advantage rather then giving free kicks. This played into Coventry's hands as they were very physical.

Can't believe some on here saying O'Donnell didn't deserve MOTM. Yes, he did a few dodgy kicks, but more than made up for that by saving a penalty and pulling off another two great stops.

As for his positioning on the first goal, I think the reason behind it was because he had moved forwards expecting Downing to let the ball through but he instead tried to clear it, didn't do a great job, and it dropped to the Coventry player. I don't know if O'Donnell shouted for Downing to leave it, but he certainly should have done as I yelled "leave it" from where I was sitting!

What does Smith think of Manset and Grimes when his first option when chasing a game is to throw on a left back, and not a particularity good one, rather than those two?

I actually thought Baxendale was our brightest attacking midfielder today and the most likely to make something happen. A few nice touches from Sawyers, but it was another underwhelming performance, until his good games outweigh the average and bad, talk of a move to the Championship is fanciful.

Forde had a good 20 minutes or so, but that's all you ever seem to get from him. It's not surprising he seems to make more of an impact when coming off the bench.

Completely agree.
All that was certain about the first goal was that Downing's attempt at a clearance was weak.
The appearance of Benning coincided with all our attacking momentum in the second half being lost - a very weird "Plan B".

[SoccerHQ]

Did Cook miss out with a knock or is it a serious injury?

Him and Chambers potentially being out for Wednesday wouldn't be good news at all as we see the team decline when the squad players start to get regular games.

[Whitters]

Dean 'Mediocre' Smith strikes again.

Personally, I don't think Smith will ever amount to anything more than an average manager, and will never get us anywhere near the playoffs.

For every good performance, there is an equally dire one

Just call me Mystic Meg.

Poor performance today, started sluggishly and out-muscled in the first half, they were the better side. Second half we came out all guns blazing, but as has been the case numerous times this season, we just can't put the ball in the net. If we had scored early in the 2nd, I'd have fancied us to go on and win the game.

All in all 4 points from the Sheff Utd, Swindon, Mk Dons and Coventry games...and yet people still think we stand a chance of the playoffs? LOL.

We're a poor-to-average team (just look at the league table, dont take my word for it), with a poor manager who has a one-dimensional idea of tactics and we have a poor squad...Mal Benning is now our plan B. LOL.

I'm not sure what you're looking for by supporting WFC Phil.
And you are a really good supporter - attending games etc.
And I know we're all different and have different ideas.

Let's just imagine that we had large crowds, bringing in lots of money to spend on players and managers.
Or a sugar daddy ploughing in lots of money.
Let's further imagine that we had spent this money well and have a team and a manager who consistently brush aside opposition so we are close to top if not top of League 1.
Is that what you want?

Because that leads to the Championship and probably more frustration or maybe an attempt to get into the Premiership.
Is that what you want?
Would you be happy with mid table in the Championship?
How long would you be happy with that?

What exactly is it you want from WFC?
Maybe if you define what you want and also say how it's to be achieved then I can see where you're coming from.
At the moment you seem to ignore the constraints we operate under and expect constant miracles and constant good luck.
I find it unrealistic.

Supporting Walsall is a different experience to supporting Chelsea or Manchester United or even Derby or Notts Forest.
Things take ages and thing don't always work out.
We can't change things quickly by throwing ridiculous money at it.

I subscribe to the theory that we are even now punching above our financial weight.
It doesn't mean I don't get excited by a cup run or a good win.
I find it realistic to have expectations which take into account our situation.
What's your theory?

[Big Dave wfc]

I see Phil is on again spouting all sorts of rubbish, your an absolute muppet why don't you do us all a favour and go interfere with your spaniel!

Very disappointing today, just didn't get going in the first half, the team was far too deep to support Bradshaw, coventry change there shape from how they lined up against us at the richo, and it paid off we was out numbered on midfield and smothered on upfront.

Think it was Taylor's worsted game today for us he looked unfit, touch was loose, beaten by the long ball, very unlike him.

Odonnell is a brilliant shot stopper but he has got to get control properly of his area, I'm sure with cutler and his attitude it will come with a bit of time.

Sawyers a passenger first half and showed glimpses on the 2nd, terrible tackle on him, I knew it was a bad one with his reaction, never seen him with so much emotion.

Officials worste I've seen all year but they didn't really affect the goals we conceded, but they allowed coventry to persistently trip, pull, tug and rough up our players to knock us out of any momentum we were building without brandishing cards, the advantages well there wasn't none.

Was impressed with tudgay, he was good in the air and the ball stick like glue to him.

It might be DS biggest squad but the quality on the bench in the attacking sense is not there, hopefully it can be addressed in the loan market,

Hopefully bounce back Wednesday like the mk dons game!

Keep the faith, uts

[Wragbyred]

So we lost at home in mid table league clash? Wow cack happens.
God knows what the response will be if we lose to Preston, who, by the way, managed to leave striking talent such as Kevin Davies, Jermaine Beckford & Sylvan Ebanks-Blakeon the bench against Norwich :shock:
Good luck boys

[IHTC.]

Did Cook miss out with a knock or is it a serious injury?

Him and Chambers potentially being out for Wednesday wouldn't be good news at all as we see the team decline when the squad players start to get regular games.

Illness.

[IHTC.]

Why do you sing about Chelsea and Tottenham ?
When do you think you will be playing them again?
You need a new song to include the likes of fleet wood and Crawley?

Why would someone who has admitted they prefer the glory of supporting a premier league team hang out on a Walsall forum?
Some people are beyond reason, I guess.

Fixed it for you

[otiswfc]

How we weren't 3/4 down by half time is beyond me. We were diabolicle. Sawyers gave away a blantent penalty, I don't know why people were arguing it. The save should've been the wake up call we needed but it didn't work. Good strike by O'Brien, but once again O'Donnell's positioning from a long range strike was questionable. Why did he come off his line for the initial ball, which he was never getting anywhere near, as when it went out to O'Brien it meant he was still adjusting himself. Only a lucky deflection and a good reaction save stopped is being more than one down at the break.

Second half, we started well and dominated the first 15-20 minutes. Hit the post twice and looked threatening. However, as soon as Benning came on we lost all momentum. What Morris has to do to get in the squad is beyond me.

Their second goal felt inevitable. Once again, it was a simple ball into the box and it pretty summed up our afternoon.

A few other points, O'Donnell MOTM was laughable. Bloke had a bad afternoon, especially in the kicking department.
To
Taylor looked unfit. He was blowing out of his rear end after twenty minutes. Not convinced he should've started today.

Purkiss has to come back in for O'Connor should J.Chambers be fit for Wednesday and I pray he is.

The officials were ridiculousy bad. To the point is was laughable. How they are professionals is. Eying me. Even simple decisions they were getting wrong and how none of the Coventry players got booked for time wasting is beyond me.

Overall, very bad afternoon at the office.

Nice to see someone finally seeing eye to eye with me. The man is marginally above average, with some good points to his game and some below par ones. All this Championship talk is utter bollocks. He saved a pen though mate, so buzzin, give him an 8 year deal.

If they had won by enough of a margin, would be in play off places....but even a draw would have been a bad result, but to lose again impotently...

This convinces me they will not be making the play offs....

Can never string 3 wins together.....if two wins ..then just wait for the loss....very predictable

If it's that predictable, please take Phil and bog off permanently. Just to save half the sane people on here the bleeding eyes every Saturday evening. I'm sure the rest of us can front the £40 per home game just to ensure the club don't lose out.

Playing a local team who you knew would be up for a battle, as were Shrewsbury,together with a top six place called for some bottle.

The problem here and against shrews is, as we saw in the wall against crystal palace, this team has no bottle.

So coventry stamped all over us in the first ten minutes and determined the outcome of the game.

Pansies like sawyers and Baxendale just encourage them!

I actually feel sorry for smithout because he genuinely does not know what he is going to get from one game to another and he is tactically inept.

He has no one to bring on because he has wasted money on a 3 year contract for Baxendale, grimes the best finisher he has ever seen so good in fact that when we need a goal he brings on a fullback and plays him upfront instead and Manset who got the cov fans doubled up laughing when he came on.


And so on to Wednesday and a game that means so much to Saddlers fans and will require bottle

What like the bottle we showed to end Fleetwood's 9 month home unbeaten run? Or end the Dons 4 month undefeated league run? Or perhaps the second half comeback at Tranmere?


Completely embarassed to be associated with some on here tonight. We lose 1 game, after a brillant win and all of a sudden we have no bottle, the team needs sacking and the manager is completely inept! It's the sort of cack you see over on Molinuex mix.

* We have NO money
* NO fans
* NO expectations
* Everyone BAR out fans think we are tiny, tinpot and will go down each season
*Our budget is in the bottom 4 or 5 in the division - signing Manset, Grimes and Bradshaw in the summer proves that!
*We are 180 minutes from Wembley, have one of the best forwards in the division and some promising youngsters.
*We are stable, well run and forward thinking in virtually ALL footballing departments.

Please, some people - get a grip! This season up until now is about as good as a 2015 Walsall FC (Current climate, situation, fanbase, finance considered) is EVER > YES, EVER going to be. If you don't enjoy it currently, you may as well quit football permanently.

The only person iv ever seen put that Walsall fc are a tin pot club is you Sadders on the league 1 forum, you never have anything good to say about Walsall the town the football club or the fans you do a very good job in bringing us down I don't know what you're problem is if we're cack I will say we're cack if we play well I will say we've played well you always look for the negative always underestimate our away support and slag off the atmosphere at home to other clubs supporters YOU should be ashamed of yourself.

[chestersaddler]

If they had won by enough of a margin, would be in play off places....but even a draw would have been a bad result, but to lose again impotently...

This convinces me they will not be making the play offs....

Can never string 3 wins together.....if two wins ..then just wait for the loss....very predictable

By "they" do you mean"us". :?

[derbysaddler]

The good ship Smith is inconsistent as always. Dissapointing that we couldnt build up on the result at MK Dons. Seems to me Smith doesnt have the squad options to change things in a game if we are struggling.

If you exclude the top 4, this division is very samey. Plenty of clubs are inconsistent. Do we gamble on that and strengthen now in January to make a decent shot at the playoffs or cross our fingers that Bradshaw will stay fit for the reminder of the season.

[Neuromantic]

The good ship Smith is inconsistent as always. Dissapointing that we couldnt build up on the result at MK Dons. Seems to me Smith doesnt have the squad options to change things in a game if we are struggling.

If you exclude the top 4, this division is very samey. Plenty of clubs are inconsistent. Do we gamble on that and strengthen now in January to make a decent shot at the playoffs or cross our fingers that Bradshaw will stay fit for the reminder of the season.

I did chuckle.

I think we all know the answer to your question Derby (unfortunately). I think the opposite is more likely... and we know how that ended up last time.

*Dusts off the flags*

I would love to be proven wrong and we invest in a proper back up striker (or starter in fact) and another centre half... however...

[IHTC.]

The good ship Smith is inconsistent as always. Dissapointing that we couldnt build up on the result at MK Dons. Seems to me Smith doesnt have the squad options to change things in a game if we are struggling.

If you exclude the top 4, this division is very samey. Plenty of clubs are inconsistent. Do we gamble on that and strengthen now in January to make a decent shot at the playoffs or cross our fingers that Bradshaw will stay fit for the reminder of the season.

And who's fault is that?

[EvenFlow]

A couple of very important points have been made on this thread about squad players, and in particular Benning coming off the bench while recent contract-extendee Morris didn't even make the 18.

I can't criticise a player I've barely seen, so I'll say that Morris' level of involvement this season has been very disappointing. I don't think it's unfair to have expected a third year pro to make, as minimum, a similar contribution to Hemmings' of last season. As such (and I'm sure Dean Smith could fully answer this question; it's not a Smith Out war-cry- I am a fan of our manager, whilst recognising he has a couple of limitations), I'd love the chance to ask our manager why a player who is in borderline "not a kid anymore" territory & has only made around 10 total first team appearances is being given a new contract & subsequently failing to make the first 18 when we have 2 significant injuries.

One of the small things that I am personally starting to believe is a Smith weakness is his fondness of his comfort zone, personnel-wise. Return spells for Mantom, Brandy, Cook, Butler, Gray, and the summer bid for Grigg evidence this. I think we have a nucleus of 7-8 players that make us Top 6 contenders, Cook & Forde who are prone to "quiet" games (so when both are quiet, we are stuffed), and Purkiss who is thoroughly decent. Beyond that, our players fall into the categories of either very young or not good enough for regular 3rd tier football, or to change games when required. This is not exactly a unique situation to us....

... I got to thinking about the Graydon era earlier (as I am often prone to do). Our 98-99 promotion side was similarly balanced, with a general nucleus of Walker, Pointon, Viveash, Roper, Keates, Wrack & Rammell. Brissett, Marsh & loanees like Simpson & Lambert plugged gaps all over the place. Rammell barely played 10 games with the same strike partner. What we did have was a revolving cast of supporting characters, that kept the regulars on their toes. Graydon was prepared to mix it up constantly on the fringes, which compensated for the similarly low success rate of the fringe players- whereas the Icelandic duo, Otta, Mavrak etc met with varying levels of relative success, its important to remember that at various points that season (and in the days of only3 subs), our bench contained the likes of Neil Davis, Wayne Dyer, Ryan Kapagiandis, Mark Watson & Regis Garrault.

Once our starting XI is announced, our bench pretty much picks itself, and there is no-one that we as fans are crying out to see get a run. I'd like to see the Holden and (presumably) Clifford portions of the budget utilised this month on a player or two who can mix things up on the fringes. No harm to Morris, and I genuinely hope he becomes a massive player for us someday, but I was fully expecting the "Morris wage" to form part of this month's utilisable fund, and have my suspicions that our manager may have taken the safe option of sticking with a player that he knows.

[chestersaddler]

The good ship Smith is inconsistent as always. Dissapointing that we couldnt build up on the result at MK Dons. Seems to me Smith doesnt have the squad options to change things in a game if we are struggling.

If you exclude the top 4, this division is very samey. Plenty of clubs are inconsistent. Do we gamble on that and strengthen now in January to make a decent shot at the playoffs or cross our fingers that Bradshaw will stay fit for the reminder of the season.

And who's fault is that?

Smith's of course. He spends fortunes on players and pays them way over the odds. Other Managers' signings always work out, which is why we are in such a desperate position :wink:

[Sadders]

How we weren't 3/4 down by half time is beyond me. We were diabolicle. Sawyers gave away a blantent penalty, I don't know why people were arguing it. The save should've been the wake up call we needed but it didn't work. Good strike by O'Brien, but once again O'Donnell's positioning from a long range strike was questionable. Why did he come off his line for the initial ball, which he was never getting anywhere near, as when it went out to O'Brien it meant he was still adjusting himself. Only a lucky deflection and a good reaction save stopped is being more than one down at the break.

Second half, we started well and dominated the first 15-20 minutes. Hit the post twice and looked threatening. However, as soon as Benning came on we lost all momentum. What Morris has to do to get in the squad is beyond me.

Their second goal felt inevitable. Once again, it was a simple ball into the box and it pretty summed up our afternoon.

A few other points, O'Donnell MOTM was laughable. Bloke had a bad afternoon, especially in the kicking department.
To
Taylor looked unfit. He was blowing out of his rear end after twenty minutes. Not convinced he should've started today.

Purkiss has to come back in for O'Connor should J.Chambers be fit for Wednesday and I pray he is.

The officials were ridiculousy bad. To the point is was laughable. How they are professionals is. Eying me. Even simple decisions they were getting wrong and how none of the Coventry players got booked for time wasting is beyond me.

Overall, very bad afternoon at the office.

Nice to see someone finally seeing eye to eye with me. The man is marginally above average, with some good points to his game and some below par ones. All this Championship talk is utter bollocks. He saved a pen though mate, so buzzin, give him an 8 year deal.

If they had won by enough of a margin, would be in play off places....but even a draw would have been a bad result, but to lose again impotently...

This convinces me they will not be making the play offs....

Can never string 3 wins together.....if two wins ..then just wait for the loss....very predictable

If it's that predictable, please take Phil and bog off permanently. Just to save half the sane people on here the bleeding eyes every Saturday evening. I'm sure the rest of us can front the £40 per home game just to ensure the club don't lose out.

Playing a local team who you knew would be up for a battle, as were Shrewsbury,together with a top six place called for some bottle.

The problem here and against shrews is, as we saw in the wall against crystal palace, this team has no bottle.

So coventry stamped all over us in the first ten minutes and determined the outcome of the game.

Pansies like sawyers and Baxendale just encourage them!

I actually feel sorry for smithout because he genuinely does not know what he is going to get from one game to another and he is tactically inept.

He has no one to bring on because he has wasted money on a 3 year contract for Baxendale, grimes the best finisher he has ever seen so good in fact that when we need a goal he brings on a fullback and plays him upfront instead and Manset who got the cov fans doubled up laughing when he came on.


And so on to Wednesday and a game that means so much to Saddlers fans and will require bottle

What like the bottle we showed to end Fleetwood's 9 month home unbeaten run? Or end the Dons 4 month undefeated league run? Or perhaps the second half comeback at Tranmere?


Completely embarassed to be associated with some on here tonight. We lose 1 game, after a brillant win and all of a sudden we have no bottle, the team needs sacking and the manager is completely inept! It's the sort of cack you see over on Molinuex mix.

* We have NO money
* NO fans
* NO expectations
* Everyone BAR out fans think we are tiny, tinpot and will go down each season
*Our budget is in the bottom 4 or 5 in the division - signing Manset, Grimes and Bradshaw in the summer proves that!
*We are 180 minutes from Wembley, have one of the best forwards in the division and some promising youngsters.
*We are stable, well run and forward thinking in virtually ALL footballing departments.

Please, some people - get a grip! This season up until now is about as good as a 2015 Walsall FC (Current climate, situation, fanbase, finance considered) is EVER > YES, EVER going to be. If you don't enjoy it currently, you may as well quit football permanently.

The only person iv ever seen put that Walsall fc are a tin pot club is you Sadders on the league 1 forum, you never have anything good to say about Walsall the town the football club or the fans you do a very good job in bringing us down I don't know what you're problem is if we're cack I will say we're cack if we play well I will say we've played well you always look for the negative always underestimate our away support and slag off the atmosphere at home to other clubs supporters YOU should be ashamed of yourself.

You couldn't be anymore wrong if you tried. I add balance to my posts, include opposition perspectives and give my honest opinion on players, teams and fans - if people don't like that then that's fine, much like I don't like yours and Phil's opinions on us as a club. It annoys me that you find reason to moan about our manager, our players when we lose random games that are on paper - very loseable. It annoys me that when we win, we are only mediocre but when we lose Smith needs to be sacked, our players are rubbish, our tactics abysmal. When in matter of fact, Smith is about par or over-achieving on his budget reach and squad ability/depth. The damining factor being, that if he left here tommorrow he would have offers from bigger and more expansive football league clubs than Walsall FC. Did you say that about Hutchings? Broadhurst? Merson? We are just a notoriously mid table par League One club, who are now slipping lower than that due to current financial times, fanbase etc.

The only major difference these days is that A) Teams use and have A LOT more money than we do, in our division - which means we don't sign the big players in the league and B) Our fanbase even in the last 10 years has dwindled, so we don't get enough people through the door to compete at the top of the division. It's all fine and dandy having your own perspective set to your own club, but sometimes you need to step away and think about what other clubs can do, what expectations other clubs with MORE right and MORE financial backing can do.

Walsall have a poor fanbase in numbers for a town our size, we have a poor home atmosphere, a woeful league 1 budget, we are considered relegation fodder and tinpot by EVERYONE bar our own fans and club - and that's great, let them underestimate us, but don't be foolish enough to think that they don't think that though. What we do have going for us, is a great football philosophy, a good youth setup, some solid foundations in the board room, a manager who doesn't always get it right but has an optimistic look on things, likes to play football that will earn us as a club plaudits as a whole, whilst making us an option for the more lauded young players out there who may be leaving Premier League clubs or prestidgous academies for our sell on potential and style of football, we are a nice club, people want to wish us well and the media/public like it when we do good things - like beating the MK Dons. We have good morales, we have no criminals playing for us, no bad press and a strict backroom management set up from Youth to first team that will only help us on the pitch down the line and lastly have NO* financial worries in any departments. How many others clubs want to be there in 2015? Stable, the best word I can find.

Just look at Hartlepool/Tranmere/Carlisle as examples of league 1 clubs our size/slightly larger than us as the perfect example of being in a BAD situation. What we are currently experiencing, is reasonable, it's exciting at times, frustrating at others, but you feel we are constantly in any game that we play pre kick off and during. Lastly, we have a good side mixed with young and experienced pro's, we are in mid table and have an opportunity to get to Wembley in the next few weeks. We have a fancied forward who is one of the best in the division and exciting young players like Henry, Kinsella, Downing, Forde, Bradshaw, Flanagan, Bakayoko etc.

Yet you read this messageboard of a Saturday evening and anybody who wasn't a Walsall fan would think that we've just been relegated to the Conference South, with a 40 man squad, Mourihno as the manager and a 25,000 home gate. As I said, your entitled to your opinion but I just fear any outsider reading this messageboard at times and thinking 'Christ, what a deluded bunch Walsall fans are, if they stay up each year it's a decent achievement'...and that's what they will think.

[Walsallone]

Another excellent post Sadders-I dont have your ability with words however you are clearly expressing the views of the vast majority of regular fans. I know many fans and I dont know one who thinks we are on the wrong track.We all applaud our attempts to play football the right way,our disciplinary record is one to be proud of as is the ability to produce a constant stream of young talented players.
The few malcontents who post on here are not typical of our fanbase although ,of course,they are entitled to a view if they go regulary to matches however the over reaction to every defeat is plain daft.
Dean Smith is doing well but he makes mistakes. He did yesterday,in my opinion,with his substitutions but his honest comments on WM after the match showed he is maturing into a fine manager.

[philthesaddler]

Ok, you've convince me.

We have small crowds and therefore expecting anymore than 14th is pure fantasy. We might as well just end the season now then, yeh? fudge idiots. Go and support Villa if all you dream of is 17th.

[PT]

Saddlers, most of the things you post above are sound. Small fan base, low budget etc all true.

But rather than that leading to a shrug of the shoulders as you seem to after a defeat with a "well what should we expect?", there has to be some debate about how we played.

Rather than using words like low and small to describe our budget and resource, how about precious and scarce? Given that our budget is more precious than a lot of our rivals it is right that we scrutinise how it is deployed maybe more than supporters of other clubs. Given that we have fewer resources it is right that we challenge how those scarce resources are utilised.

In the summer, the manager used some of our precious budget on two forward players called Grimes and Manset. This meant that he had stocked our scarce resources in forward positions maybe at the cost of other positions. When we are losing at home against a team beneath us in the league, the manger chooses to ignore the forward resource he invested some of our precious budget in and instead chose to use a young left back who is having a mixed time being deployed in a more advanced position.

So I'd really like to know your view on which of the following you'd agree with;

1/ Smith's decision not to use Grimes or Manset earlier in yesterday's game suggests he wasted some of our precious budget in the summer.
2/ Yesterday, Smith made the wrong call in his substitutions. He used our scarce resources un-wisely.
3/ Using our precious budget on Manset and Grimes was right but given how the game was going, bringing Benning on was still the right decision. In other words Smith was spot on in the summer and yesterday.

If you think number one or two might be right, that doesn't suddenly make you a fifth columnist with no understanding of our budget or our comparative resources. It doesn't mean that you want Dean Smith dismissed immediately or indeed at all. It just means that there are a couple of signings and a couple of in match decisions that you might not agree with. Even if you think number three is right then surely you can see the merit in a discussion around numbers one and two.

In fact, the very conditions you describe are the conditions every Walsall manager has to work under and he has to use every penny of our precious budget and scarce resources wisely. It is right that as paying punters, we keep whoever is managing the team honest around that and don't accept any dereliction of duty as an inevitable consequence of a perceived financial reality. If we did accept that, then there really would be no point, no point at all.

[bangsection]

Ok, you've convince me.

We have small crowds and therefore expecting anymore than 14th is pure fantasy. We might as well just end the season now then, yeh? fudge idiots. Go and support Villa if all you dream of is 17th.

I always find this argument strange. What Walsall fans "hope for" and "expect" can be different but not mutually exclusive. At the start of the season I hoped we'd win the league, as I always do. I expected us to finish about 15th. People with unrealistic expectations are always going to be disappointed.

[Sadders]

Ok, you've convince me.

We have small crowds and therefore expecting anymore than 14th is pure fantasy. We might as well just end the season now then, yeh? fudge idiots. Go and support Villa if all you dream of is 17th.

It's fine to have play-off aspirations - I'd like to think of us making the playoffs. If we don't, or if we lose, or if we play badly on a few occasions - being overally critical of the management, players and general setup just isn't necessary. The Bookies, opposition fans, the media all expect us to fight relegation every year - yes, we may not do and yes, I expect us to be better than that and yes I also hope we do better than that - but if we didn't then it wouldn't be some unexpected happening. Thus, finishing anywhere from 17th - 10th, is 'fine', it's more than acceptable, especially if you add a cup run in, some good home performances and we bring on a player that could become an assett to us. (Of which, all boxes are ticked)

Until we get more home fans, more money or pull off a miracolous Yeovil style one off - then we can't be overally critical of being where we are at. It's all about mindset supporting a club likes ours and if this season so far has been as bad as your posts make out then seriously, I'd advise finding another club to support, alternating your mindset or changing your hobby as you are going to be dissapointed with the ongoings here more often than not.

Saddlers, most of the things you post above are sound. Small fan base, low budget etc all true.

But rather than that leading to a shrug of the shoulders as you seem to after a defeat with a "well what should we expect?", there has to be some debate about how we played.

Rather than using words like low and small to describe our budget and resource, how about precious and scarce? Given that our budget is more precious than a lot of our rivals it is right that we scrutinise how it is deployed maybe more than supporters of other clubs. Given that we have fewer resources it is right that we challenge how those scarce resources are utilised.

In the summer, the manager used some of our precious budget on two forward players called Grimes and Manset. This meant that he had stocked our scarce resources in forward positions maybe at the cost of other positions. When we are losing at home against a team beneath us in the league, the manger chooses to ignore the forward resource he invested some of our precious budget in and instead chose to use a young left back who is having a mixed time being deployed in a more advanced position.

So I'd really like to know your view on which of the following you'd agree with;

1/ Smith's decision not to use Grimes or Manset earlier in yesterday's game suggests he wasted some of our precious budget in the summer.
2/ Yesterday, Smith made the wrong call in his substitutions. He used our scarce resources un-wisely.
3/ Using our precious budget on Manset and Grimes was right but given how the game was going, bringing Benning on was still the right decision. In other words Smith was spot on in the summer and yesterday.

If you think number one or two might be right, that doesn't suddenly make you a fifth columnist with no understanding of our budget or our comparative resources. It doesn't mean that you want Dean Smith dismissed immediately or indeed at all. It just means that there are a couple of signings and a couple of in match decisions that you might not agree with. Even if you think number three is right then surely you can see the merit in a discussion around numbers one and two.

In fact, the very conditions you describe are the conditions every Walsall manager has to work under and he has to use every penny of our precious budget and scarce resources wisely. It is right that as paying punters, we keep whoever is managing the team honest around that and don't accept any dereliction of duty as an inevitable consequence of a perceived financial reality. If we did accept that, then there really would be no point, no point at all.

Nope, I agree with some of your post. After every game I visit, I come on here and give my truthful opinion. I'm no happy clapper and quite frequently give some of the most damining reviews on the performance of players, mangement and team tactics in here. That's not the part that annoys me, it's the comments afterwards. Let's play an example.

We lose a game 2-1, we've played ok but lost overall and there are similarities in previous defeats and patterns of our game play in previous months. Here is what I can accept...

'We were poor today, lost to a better team, once again we continued to over play and look naff upfront....X players were poor...X players were very good...Smith COULD have changed the game differently by bringing X player on for X player (isn't this sounding all rather Frecklington-ish)'

What I can't accept is..

'We were poor today, lost to a better team, but despite there better more expensive players, bigger crowds and bla bla we should have beaten them. Smith was stupid to play him, the entire team has no bottle, they were awful, Smith is a dreadful manager, no bottle, too nice, no tactics'

It's these baffling aspersions that change like Bipolar patients from game to game. Credit to Phil, he's consistent, when we win were still shite and when we lose were even shiter. But others that praise the team and go over the top when we pull of results like Dons and then can't stop slagging Smith off the game after and label the team 'bottlers' are just frankly, idiotic. I'm waffling on so in answer to your questions.

1) Yes I would agree to an extent. However, it's a damning indictment of Smith's budget when the wages he can offer go to the likes of Grimes, Manset and Bradshaw. Grimes released from league 2 Bury, Manset from a foreign team playing in a rubbish league and Bradshaw (Even though he's done well) from relegated league 2 Shrewsbury. I'm afraid to say at that point, when you have that to offer, you really are looking at the bottom of the stack and hoping that 1 of the 3 come on and do well. Bradshaw has blown everyone away, the other 2 poor. It's all a risk and reward game at this level of finance, fan base etc. You could ask every single team in the entire Football League whether they had players (more expensive than ours) that were in hindsight poor signings and a waste of budget.

2) I missed the game due to work, but didn't Benning do well when he came on at the Dons? Set the tap in up for Bradshaw. Maybe Smith thought he would ride the crest of a wave. Afterall, what does it say to any player when you come on and have an impact, only to not be given a shot at doing the same thing next time round. As to whether Benning would change the game, maybe or maybe not - it's worth a try.

Lastly. I'd just like to add. I don't want us to do anything other than win, and win all the time. At the beginning of the season when everyone said we would struggle, I said mid table. I have expectations each season. They are to compete in every game, produce young players that we can sell on and try to improve our financial situation so that we can compete with better players, do well at home, play nice football and look to the cups to progress and bring some excitement if our 'hit and miss, freebies' don't have enough to do well in the league. However, if we don't make the playoffs, don't progress in the cups and end up somewhere outside the bottom 4 then I won't hang Smith, nor the team out to dry. Simple facts of the football pyramid - our chances of doing great things are very minimal.

[EvenFlow]

As to whether Benning would change the game, maybe or maybe not - it's worth a try.

I have to say, as postscript to my previous post, that I do expect to see Benning reasonably regularly on the left side of our midfield for the remainder of the season.

Towards the end of his tenure, Richard Taundry became a bit of a punchline for our support, yet when he first emerged, there was clearly a potential good third tier player there, who regretfully lost his way. Benning's early appearances for us were very encouraging, especially his attack-minded play, so it's easy to see why he has been considered for a role further forward. In the summer, I fully expected Benning to be our first choice left back this season, as I thought Taylor would be moving on. With the emergence of Rico Henry, Benning is clearly 3rd choice left back now, so between now and May looks make or break for his Walsall career. Given, as PT eloquently puts it, our precious resources, its only right that a player we've invested several years into developing should get a decent opportunity to stake his claim.

[pumajaguar]

Morris got a contract extension then?

That one passed me by. Very strange, the fact he's barley been near the team for a while now made me think Deano didn't rate him.

[otiswfc]

Talk about budgets and expectations are irrelevant did Yeovil expect to be promoted the other yr no obviously not but they did look at what Rochdale are doing this season with 3000 crowd's and a low budget, we should have an advantage over other clubs in this league due to us having had the same manager in charge for the last 4 year's the problem is smith is still making the same mistakes he was making from day one his tactics are absolutely shocking his substitutions never have any impact on a game and his player recruitment on the whole is a joke for the last 4 year's we've been the most inconsistent team in the league smith has to take the blame for this.
How will we get on at Preston on Wednesday? who knows we could win 3-0 or lose 3-0 something is obviously wrong with that.

[Andy_Petterson]

Morris got a contract extension then?

That one passed me by. Very strange, the fact he's barley been near the team for a while now made me think Deano didn't rate him.

I think we need to wheat a bit longer for him to make an impact.

[Welsh_Saddler]

Morris got a contract extension then?

That one passed me by. Very strange, the fact he's barley been near the team for a while now made me think Deano didn't rate him.

I think we need to wheat a bit longer for him to make an impact.

That goes against the grain.

[Cully]

You couldn't be anymore wrong if you tried. I add balance to my posts, include opposition perspectives and give my honest opinion on players, teams and fans - if people don't like that then that's fine, much like I don't like yours and Phil's opinions on us as a club. It annoys me that you find reason to moan about our manager, our players when we lose random games that are on paper - very loseable. It annoys me that when we win, we are only mediocre but when we lose Smith needs to be sacked, our players are rubbish, our tactics abysmal. When in matter of fact, Smith is about par or over-achieving on his budget reach and squad ability/depth. The damining factor being, that if he left here tommorrow he would have offers from bigger and more expansive football league clubs than Walsall FC. Did you say that about Hutchings? Broadhurst? Merson? We are just a notoriously mid table par League One club, who are now slipping lower than that due to current financial times, fanbase etc.

The only major difference these days is that A) Teams use and have A LOT more money than we do, in our division - which means we don't sign the big players in the league and B) Our fanbase even in the last 10 years has dwindled, so we don't get enough people through the door to compete at the top of the division. It's all fine and dandy having your own perspective set to your own club, but sometimes you need to step away and think about what other clubs can do, what expectations other clubs with MORE right and MORE financial backing can do.

Walsall have a poor fanbase in numbers for a town our size, we have a poor home atmosphere, a woeful league 1 budget, we are considered relegation fodder and tinpot by EVERYONE bar our own fans and club - and that's great, let them underestimate us, but don't be foolish enough to think that they don't think that though. What we do have going for us, is a great football philosophy, a good youth setup, some solid foundations in the board room, a manager who doesn't always get it right but has an optimistic look on things, likes to play football that will earn us as a club plaudits as a whole, whilst making us an option for the more lauded young players out there who may be leaving Premier League clubs or prestidgous academies for our sell on potential and style of football, we are a nice club, people want to wish us well and the media/public like it when we do good things - like beating the MK Dons. We have good morales, we have no criminals playing for us, no bad press and a strict backroom management set up from Youth to first team that will only help us on the pitch down the line and lastly have NO* financial worries in any departments. How many others clubs want to be there in 2015? Stable, the best word I can find.

Just look at Hartlepool/Tranmere/Carlisle as examples of league 1 clubs our size/slightly larger than us as the perfect example of being in a BAD situation. What we are currently experiencing, is reasonable, it's exciting at times, frustrating at others, but you feel we are constantly in any game that we play pre kick off and during. Lastly, we have a good side mixed with young and experienced pro's, we are in mid table and have an opportunity to get to Wembley in the next few weeks. We have a fancied forward who is one of the best in the division and exciting young players like Henry, Kinsella, Downing, Forde, Bradshaw, Flanagan, Bakayoko etc.

Yet you read this messageboard of a Saturday evening and anybody who wasn't a Walsall fan would think that we've just been relegated to the Conference South, with a 40 man squad, Mourihno as the manager and a 25,000 home gate. As I said, your entitled to your opinion but I just fear any outsider reading this messageboard at times and thinking 'Christ, what a deluded bunch Walsall fans are, if they stay up each year it's a decent achievement'...and that's what they will think.

:lol: That has to be one of the funniest of all your posts. Full of triumphalist statements, bizarre assumptions and generalised nonsense I have read in a long while. Please can we have more statements like..... 'when we lose random games that are on paper - very loseable' and 'we are considered relegation fodder and tinpot by EVERYONE bar our own fans and club - and that's great'.

Can I suggest reading what you've written before posting, I'm afraid it's mainly meaningless waffle. Let your motto be .............Vox nihili!

[WFC_Rob]

This thread's showcased some pretty astute debate about the differing opinions between Walsall fans, that's for sure.

I also think we need to take into account the likelihood that the contend of a post made within an hour of a home defeat is fairly likely to led more by the heart than the head, and may read that bit more dramatically than the poster intends it to be. In reality, barely anyone's called for Smith's head after yesterday's game - nor have they completely written our squad or our season off.

As an aside, whilst 'Hereforawhile' seems to have his/her head screwed on, I don't think the claims that Coventry now struggle with a lack of income really wash when they can name Simeon Jackson, Marcus Tudgay, Frank Nouble and Gary Madine in their match day squad. There's a fair few quid being spent on those four, that's for sure.