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Rochdale Away

Reports and reaction from the 2014-2015 season as Walsall finished 14th in League 1
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Andy_Petterson
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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:23 am

JonnyOwen wrote:Anyone who blames Deano for this is an idiot, I've been sitting here watching us get slaughtered wondering what we could of done differently, I can't think of any, injuries caught up with this. Nothing Deano can do about an astronomical injury list, youth showering their inexperience and individual poor performances from typically solid players.



Sorry Jonny. I've been firmly pro Smith and appreciate the injuries don't help, but that was a shambles.

Some things we could have done to negate Rochdale's tactics

- Played 5 at the back to double up on the Quick Rochdale players running with the ball.
- Played Bakayoko, whose pace would have stretched Rochdale and given some defensive relief.
- (in the first half) have Forde and Benning play deeper to give more defensive cover.
- Make the players fight for the ball. Too many passengers last night.

Yes, this would be very defensive reactive football, but some of my favorite memories are the backs against the wall grind out a draw type games.

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aaaae
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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:26 am

Whitters wrote:Also Chesterfield have a bloke who has now scored consecutive hat tricks - have we ever had a bloke do that?

Buckley? Sadlad will know!

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Andy_Petterson
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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:34 am

Whitters wrote:Thanks for the reports, they give a clearer picture of what happened.
I notice the BBC has us down for only 38% possession.
Is this the lowest % we've had so far in the Smith tippy tappy era?

Rochdale must be gutted at just over 2,000 when they seem to be doing so well.

Also Chesterfield have a bloke who has now scored consecutive hat tricks - have we ever had a bloke do that?



They had quick forwards who ran through gaps in our defense.

When they attacked they switched to a sort of 2-4-4 formation, so had lots of bodies up front. They could do this safe in the knowledge that we had no counter attacking threat due to the worst attacking performance from a Walsall player I have ever seen in Manset. I don't know if he was injured (in which case why was he one the pitch?), but I've seen more movement in a fossil museum.

They used the tactic that Warsaw Pact helpfully highlighted. Long balls to the tall winger who would knock them down for others to run onto.

We haven't got a tall man to directly counter this, but we could have done something like play an extra defender so that any knock downs could have been got to by a Walsall player.

What annoyed me was nothing was done to solve this. The fact that Warsaw Pact made it known that this would happen before the game makes it doubly frustrating. Do we not watch the opposition before a game? I remember Norway using this tactic against England in 1993 and it seems that 20 years hasn't been long enough for Deano to come up with a solution.

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IHTC.
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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:36 am

aaaae wrote:
Whitters wrote:Also Chesterfield have a bloke who has now scored consecutive hat tricks - have we ever had a bloke do that?

Buckley? Sadlad will know!


In my 30 years the closet I remember is Dean Peers 5 in 2.

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Andy_Petterson
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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:37 am

Ancient Moaner wrote:So it's not just me then? :lol: :lol: :lol:

They somewhat reminded me of a Sunday morning pub team, out heavily on the pith the night before, but a had been donated a brand new strip by the pub landlord, the team manager/strategist, is a bloke who sits in the bar always wearing track suit bottoms, who swears he once 'ran the line' for a Northern Counties first round cup tie. :) :) :(

Methinks it's time for a change of management, I've not been in the 'Smith out' brigade before, but after that debacle, the only way we will avoid relegation this year is a clearout at the top.



Wasn't that your first game AM? I think you chose a bad one. We haven't been as poor (albeit not great either) in the other games this season.

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:27 am

IHTC. wrote:
yoda wrote:Is it a UTS rule to call someone a name for having a different view to yourself? Why has everyone that doesn't think the same got to be 'an idiot' or 'clueless' or 'a wolves fan'?

I'm all for Smith but I don't feel the need to be an oppressive douche about it.


Yes especially if they are losing the argument.


I'm afraid that's the nature of football!

I too have been known to use such language :lol: However, a lot of ill-thought out statements are made in the heat of the moment that intelligent minds would find astounding, at all levels of the game. All you have to do is listen to a WM phone-in!

We are closer to Rochdale than a lot would believe, as I am sure our away following will prove. However, we should not be losing 4-0 to Rochdale and although I still do not believe it is time for Smith to go, I don't think that after a result of that nature anyone with a sound mind will call people names or be surprised if there are fans suggesting it's time for him to go.

There are no excuses after a 0-4 to a team like Rochdale. Embarrassing. :oops:
Last edited by funk_hits_the_fan on Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:31 am

Positives:

1. Chips

2. Keith Hill (future England manager)

3. Our fans

4. Er...

Negatives:

1. What is Manset for?

2. If we concede first we're finished

3. Back four ominously poor

4. Everything else

Match report: A carnival of ineptitude.

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:45 am

Only one player was missing from the 11 that played Preston off the park in the second half on Saturday.

Because of that, putting this all down to injuries dosen't wash with me. We were shite from the first whistle, which I just can't understand as you'd have thought the players would have had a real confidence boost from the weekend.

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:23 am

Meat Pie and Chips was bosting!

The performance was that bad I couldn't even get angry

From the first minute, diagonal ball to the excellent number 7, who was out jumping O'Conner every time and flicking the ball on! Smith did nothing to combat this at all.

Playing one up front and the midfield playing so deep meant we couldn't press the ball high up the pitch, smith did nothing to change this

Long balls going to manset, he couldn't trap a bag of sand last night, so we lost the ball, smith did nothing to change this

Players wise, (not blaming the kid) but Flanagan was abysmal, a performance like that can wreck a player. He should of come off at half time

O'Connor is terrible at full back, like erm really bad

Forde is scarred of getting hurt, Sawyers is scarred of getting hurt and scared of heading the ball

Benning is not a winger. He's a better full back then a winger and he aint great at full back, he's also scarred of getting hurt

Clifford was pretty cack as well

Then he brings Clifford off and puts a winger in the middle of the pitch

switching the wingers is starting to really annoy me as well

We have a team of light weight tidy footballers, Rochdale were physical and direct. It could of and should of been 8

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:35 am

What was the formation? It looks like it was 442? If that is so, I think it shows naivety on Smiths part as most of the posters agree that the narrow 4231 works better away from home.

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:40 am

Sadsfan wrote:What was the formation? It looks like it was 442? If that is so, I think it shows naivety on Smiths part as most of the posters agree that the narrow 4231 works better away from home.


It looked like the 4231 to me. Although I have no idea what it was towards the end of the game when we had only one central midfeilder and three wingers.

Benning on the wing isn't working. Especially when he spends half the game on the right. He is a left back for crying out loud!

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:06 am

No way was it 4-4-2

Some kind of 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-3-1

either way it was shittttte.

Taylor played 2nd half with an obvious injury as well, losing him would be a HUGE blow. But he was clearly injured so should of come off

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:15 am

I wonder why he is giving Benning the nod on the wing instead of Morris - he looks a decent prospect and I'd like to see more of him. I can't understand what Baxendale brings to the team, he is too lightweight and doesn't seem creative enough to me. I'd rather we'd kept Featherstone and released Baxendale. I thought Featherstone was a natural successor to Chambers. But finishing the game last night with 3 wingers and only one central midefielder smacks of desperation and someone who doesn't really know how to change things.

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:19 am

Last night was abysmal. Probably one of the worst games/performances I can remember watching.

Rochdale were better than us in every department, and were much quicker to press the ball when we had it than us. I don't remember us having a decent attempt on goal.

O'Donnell - didn't do that much wrong, was let down too often by the defence.
O'Connor - woeful. First match I've been to this season so haven't seen him at CB, but he was crap. Out of position so many times, only remember him winning one header all night, and offered virtually nothing going forward. And why at corners was he marking their number 7 who was a foot taller than him?
Downing - looked very shaky, poor performance.
Butler - more solid than Downing, but not as good as his usual performances from previous seasons. Missed his own goal because I was looking at my phone through boredom.
Taylor - better than O'Connor. Always tried to go forward with the ball and get a cross in. Best of the back 4. In fact, he was the best going forward too.
Forde - not great.
Flanagan - looked out of his depth last night. Hopefully we can get others back from injury quickly and not put too much pressure on him too soon.
Clifford - was disappointed by him. Too many passes from midfield by both him and Flanagan got intercepted, and neither were up for tackling their players when they were going forward.
Benning - poor. Looked good going forward when he played at LB but lacks something when he was stuck on the wing. Didn't really see much of the ball.
Sawyers - so frustrating last night. There were so many times when he got the ball in the middle of the pitch, and instead of passing it out wide quickly in the direction he was facing, he would put his foot on the ball, turn and pass it square to the other side where they had players close to ours. Give Baxendale a run out if Sawyers is like this every week (bar the Preston game).
Manset - poor. did hardly anything. Needs to learn the offside rule after watching him in the first half.

Morris - looked alright when he came on, but he was put in CM rather than out wide.
Grimes - don't remember him touching the ball really.
Baxendale - same as Grimes, apart from one cross field pass that went straight into the stand.


Well done to the others that went, there was a fair few there and were quite loud all night too, even when we were 4-0 down.

I'm not usually that negative about travelling to games and seeing us lose, and don't let it put me off, but last night was a joke. 3 hour round trip on my own to see that shower of shite. Complete waste of time and money.

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:59 am

Purkiss is pretty tall. Maybe he would have done better against their left-winger (if he was available).

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:08 pm

My missus is 5 foot 1 and she would have done better against their winger

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:53 pm

Well I suppose I should come on here and defend Deano and what I said at half time.

First of all, lets talk the team. You are Dean Smith, you have a pretty good record away from home playing a 4231 formation where you can control the game but also attack the opposition because of the space provided when you are an away team in comparison to an away team. This formation has been the staple of his managerial reign, and is also the formation that works well away from home and at home last game against Preston. Why would Dean Smith change this against Rochdale? He trusts his players, he said in the post match interview up on Saddlers Player that they identified that they would play up to their tall number 7, and if they couldn't win that header, to win the second ball. He knows what to do, he knew what to do to counter act their play, however the players didn't do that as we would never pick up the second ball throughout the match, I identified this myself when watching the first half and had my head in my hands at how many second balls we didn't pick up or win. Deano was forced to make two changes to his team because of injury, A Chambers out and Bradshaw out. Before the game, I thought (mistakenly) we would be okay without them both as Clifford and Manset are decent enough players. This is where the problems truly started to bed in. Manset up front offered no threat whatsoever, and when you consider his height and strength he should be ashamed of his performance when it comes to winning headers, appalling. What else could Dean Smith have done in that area up front? Manset was the number 1 back up to Bradshaw, putting in an okay performance against Colchester and impressing during pre-season - but he had a poor, poor game. Deano believed in him to do well and he failed him, that is one position where the player did not perform.

Let's look to the midfield now then, in the centre we had Flanagan and Clifford. Now presumably from Dean Smiths point of view they are both hard working central midfielder's that are full of belief and determination, they can both pass and carry the ball - the problem was that physical they were intimidated and brushed aside by the powerful and swift Rochdale midfielder's that will never have an easier time. A Chambers was a huge miss as he is a player who breaks up the play, brings a more physical side of the game to the squad and who also does the more simple stuff that is VITAL away from home as they will undoubtedly come and press us as the away team. Our two in the centre couldn't deal with them pressing us so high up the pitch, which meant that whenever one of them got the ball we lost it immediately as they would panic and lose it or panic and punt it up the pitch to a Manset who couldn't win a game of connect 4 against an autistic duck. Control of the game from midfield, which we normally have a perfect grasp of the game from, was lost. Poor Flanagan looked out of his depth and I hope he picks his head up and learns from this. Clifford was just as poor passing wise, but he did put plenty of effort in. Deano ended up recognising we needed calm passing in the centre and switched Clifford and Sawyers' positions, and Clifford did a little better chasing down defenders where Sawyers would of stood around, whilst Sawyers passed it a bit calmer where Clifford may have played the long ball. Ultimately this did not much except improve our passing stats, because we still lost the ball and got trounced in the centre of the park by their physical midfielder's.

I feel sorry for Mal Benning, as so many people give him stick for not being a winger, but personally I think he was our best attacker - he could pick the ball and and run with it, he has decent passing so he can get the ball to the player off the front as well as a brilliant touch that no-one gives him plaudits for that can steady an attack and make us immediately a lot more dangerous. He and Andy Taylor were the only players on the pitch for us that were decent. Forde was playing? Didn't see him do anything in 90 minutes.

James O'Connor, what went wrong today with him? Who knows, but he was god awful, he didn't win a header against their number 7 but that's fine - the problem was he couldn't keep up with him in terms of pace and positionally he was all over the place. I remember once in the first half we were being attacked and he was basically stepping on the toes of Downing he had gone infield so much, the only way their winger would of had more space on that flank would be if he left the ground and drove to Preston. Downing was just as bad, he had one of those game that he had a couple of times last season but amplified, beaten for pace every time by their players who would run in between both him and Butler with ease. It wouldn't surprise me to find out Butler and Downing are still turning around to catch their forwards to this day. O'Donnell wasn't bad but he wasn't great, he went too close to the near post for the first goal and got caught off his line once again by the opposition, but not once, not twice but I can count 3 times where they attempted to chip him. One hit the post, one went not far over and the last into his hands - not sure what is going on with him in terms of his positioning, however it is also worth noting that every chip came from forward pressure, winning the ball from our central midfielder's who were hardly in the game, and just having a go. Perhaps he is just used to a comfortable on the ball and reliable central midfield, and us losing it so easily isn't what he was used to from last seasons midfield.

Now Dean Smith, what could he have done to counter act all of this individual mistakes and poor performances? Andy Butler, Paul Downing, Billy Clifford and O'Connor have all been solid in previous games, especially against really physical opposition against Preston on Saturday. They all had stinkers, what could he truly of done about that? People say play 5 at the back, first of all that would put Dean Holden on the pitch, someone EVEN SLOWER than our already too slow back four. We could of played Kinsella at right back, but if O'Connor can't win headers against their number 7 Kinsella wouldn't of stood a chance. Well then what about the second ball, if we add an extra defender to the back 4, the player that comes out would surely either be a winger or Sawyers. Same problem is still there, Clifford and Flanagan both had poor games and are simply not physical enough to compete, they still wouldn't of won the second balls. Lastly, we don't play this tactic of 5 at the back, it's not our style and if we did play it and we still lost Deano would of got a rollicking on here about changing up a winning formation and team.

Could he have played different personnel? Well discounting Manset he played a team who slaughtered an unbeaten Preston team, why would he change a winning team so much, and with injuries plaguing the squad, what could he have done in changes to counter-act Rochdale anyway? Who could of come in? No-one, the only ones who could are out injured. Baxendale is a flair player just like Clifford and Flanagan in the centre of the park, same problems are still evident. Holden? Just as slow, and why would he put Holden in (who many on here say is past it) over the solid Downing and Mr Fantastic And Butler?

Bakayoko up front someone said? Why would he put an unproven up front instead of an impressive Manset, for the speed? Bakayoko is a talent that first of all needs protecting and nurturing, throwing him at the deep end ahead of Manset would of not only been a big risk but also caused a lot on here to scratch their heads. Forde and Benning took him and player deeper? They did, it didn't help, they were too lightweight and lost every second ball - they didn't run at our full backs either, they hoofed it at their wingers who win it and ran at us centrally. The players DID fight for the ball, I even applauded the lads after the game, not because I am happy with the performance, but because the only positive I took from the game was that the lads never stopped trying despite the dreadful performance and individual efforts - you could see what it meant to the them.

Now I can guarantee someone is reading this thinking I am some blind Deano in enthusiast that will never criticize Deano for his performances, and I am just making excuses for him. If you are, go back and look at my posts, when Deano deserves critiquing for his tactics, I do it. Look at the Colchester match thread for fudge sake, I blame him fully for that performance because I believe he deserved it and it was his fault. But what happened last night, I don't think is down to him it is down to the players.

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:29 pm

Outstanding post Johnny, reasoned, well explained without being 'Pro Smith or against Smith'.

Just seen the highlights of the goals and I can say -

1) 3 goals come from there being no right back to be seen (O'Connor out of position as per)
2) Butler is a combination of slow and unlucky for the own goal
3) I'd want O'Donnell to save the first, but he had no protection.
4) Downing looks horrid for the 2nd and 4th goals.


I want to apologise to those that went last night before I make this comment, I feel truly very sorry for you and it's these kinds of nights I'd expect the players to pay for the fans that made the trip up there. BUT, Smith has identified where they were going to cause us problems. He even said if we dont win the headers, lets win the second ball. So he went with a plan and defensive tactic. Once the players cross over that line and they don't do their jobs, it's the players that need the most questioning. What on earth is Downing doing for 2 of the goals? O'Donnell should save the first and O'Connor is absolutely nowhere to be seen for ALL the goals bar the set piece - which happen in football. The players were high on confidence, went with a plan and got stung because THEY didn't perform on the night.

Clearly Smith didn't have the personnel fit to play who he wanted. Bradshaw would be in, Mantom and Chambers would be in, Cook would be in, you could argue that Grimes may have started. But either way, Smith was relying on the back 5 to have a good night and they had probably the Top 5 worst of his 4 year reign. The defence is normally our saviour, but that's the first time we've conceded 4 since The Ricoh almost 2 years ago - that is a very good record for any league one team, nevermind a team with injuries and a woeful budget. We are a small league one team, we will go on the road and get beat - if anything we've overachieved vastly away from home in recent years and underperformed at home - nights like these happen.

My point overall is, yes - this is a hammering, yes it's embarassing and yes, I feel truly sorry for anyone that had to bare witness to it. But for our club is not THAT big a disaster to have a one off hammering when our normally brillant defence have one big night off for the first time in 2 years. IF this continues and IF we suddenly start getting battered by 3, 4 or 5 each away game or each ame, then yes - sack Smith, but please only do it then and that's when we have a fully fit team.


One thing I am going to pick on Smith for and just a couple of points.

1) Manset - Shouldn't ever have settled for him. I'd rather Bakayoko had played or Grimes upfront. We could have still done a deal with a forward who had been fit. Clearly, motivation is an issue for him and he isn't willing to work hard enough to get himself fit. I'd be speaking with him now saying - GET FIT and try hard in this team, or I will bench you and look for another club.

2) O'Connor - The bloke has been horrific at full back. After 15 minutes at Port Vale he had been skinned, caught out of position and looked woeful. Smith should either play him centre back, or get rid.

3) Clifford - Looks a decent technical player, but I'm glad he only got a 6 month deal. He doesn't look creative or like he will score and he's so lightweight. To me, he's a slightly more forward thinking version of Featherstone.

4) Grimes - Not a winger, looks a poor forward. He seems slow, lazy and uninterested. Not acceptable, Smith shouldn't have signed him and I think he will be this years 'Jarvis' who gets loaned out just after January.


Overall. This is bad, very bad and completely unacceptable. But I just wish fans would come out of the 'WE LOST 4-0 FFS' mindset and actually have a broader overview of the situation. Do people expect us to get in the playoffs? If they do, then they are devoid of realism and even if they do - then teams can be near the bottom at Chrismtas (YES 3 MONTHS AWAY STILL!!) and then have a good end to the season and finish 6th - so why panic now? And if people are just thinking 'I'd be happy with mid-table and a cup run' then it only takes a point at Gills and a hard fought win over Donny and we are sat beautifully in 12th place - so that can still happen too.

No excuses in tonight's paper from Smith. Named the defending atrocious, school-boy and completely unacceptable. He has had the players in today (can't remember him ever saying that) on their day off. Other managers would blame the injury list, that Dale are a good side and we were unlucky. I can forgive nights like last night, aslong as they don't become frequent. I firmly believe others do too and if they can't, blame our normally immense back 5 for being atrocious despite being given an obvious tactic and instruction on how to defend before the game.

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:38 pm

I'm exhausted reading that Johnny.

I agree with much of what you say jonny especially about Benning who can be a threat on the left wing.

My argument though is that Deano has brought in inadequate players at this level and bugged them up to be something they clearly are not.
Oconnor/grimes and especially Forde simply are not good enough.
How the hell could he give forde a 2 year deal?

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:37 pm

You cant defend a 4-0 defeat, i dont care how you look at it.

Anyway, its about how they react on Saturday, then we will find out what they are made of.

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:44 pm

I have a feeling Smith is going to hang on by the same way Merson did, 4 or 5 bad results followed by 1 good performance to keep the criticism down for a few weeks longer.

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:48 pm

Comon I really don't think Smith & Merson should be mentioned in the same breath at all. Talk about doing Dean a disservice :evil:

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:04 pm

latviancheese wrote:You cant defend a 4-0 defeat, i dont care how you look at it.

Anyway, its about how they react on Saturday, then we will find out what they are made of.

No-one is defending it, where are you getting this from?

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:22 pm

Smith out!

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:47 pm

belgiansaddler wrote:
Whitters wrote:4 pages of whining so far - most of it from people who didn't go.
Is there anyone can give us an idea why Rochdale won so well - tactically?


They passed it to their own players, were well organised, beat our players, got into space, looked hungry and always had players available to pass to........ Er that's about it. On the other hand we did none of those things. Believe me 4-0 flattered us


The main thing from the WM reports last night is everytime they went to the reporter he was describing (other than another Rochdale goal effortlessly flying in) that Peter Viceneti was winning everything in the air from long diagonals against O'Connor.

This bloke is a big worry for me. Come from the league above so obviously on a decent wage. I think when he signed everyone assumed he'd be a CB but clearly Deano thought not.

I had sympathy with him on the opening day when the Vale winger murdered him for pace as Grimes wasn't tracking back and helping.

However to hear him getting annihilated in the air aswell now...well that's two of the main defensive aspects required surely, to be o.k one-on-one against pace and decent in the air? O'Connor looks rubbish at both so get Kinsella back in there on Saturday and hope Chambers is fit soon.

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:54 pm

IHTC. wrote:
aaaae wrote:
Whitters wrote:Also Chesterfield have a bloke who has now scored consecutive hat tricks - have we ever had a bloke do that?

Buckley? Sadlad will know!


In my 30 years the closet I remember is Dean Peers 5 in 2.


Grigg nearly did it two seasons back I think.

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:54 pm

Andy_Petterson wrote:
Cowshed wrote:Even with our strongest team we wouldn't have got anything tonight Rochdale were far better so the injury list is irrelevant

The 1st choice team just isn't good enough for the league and 3 wins in 26 confirms this.

We will pick up the odd win if we catch teams off form like we did on Saturday.

Replacing smith may not be the answer but what else do you do? How do you get more out of this squad of players?



I've read some nonsense in my time, but that takes the biscuit.



You were obviously not there last night then, if you had been you will know how true that line was.
If we had played the game with 22 of our entire squad, Rochdale would still have scagged us, they were quick, incisive, FIT, well organised, knew exactly how to attack efficiently and will be a power to be reckoned with in this division.

Further to Mr. 'I'm a large overweight slow moving petrol tanker' Mon-Say, love some of the lines in posts above that underlined his totally inept performance!
I have always been a believer in the need for a well proportioned striker/poacher up front (the likes of Akinfenwa) but after last night I have changed my stance
completely.
I honestly think that he will tear up his own contract, or have it terminated by 'mutual consent' and will trot (he can't run) back to Frrrance within a matter of weeks.

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WFC_Rob
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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:05 pm

Smith's been unlucky with injuries, but he's also done what he's done every summer and signed two average players too many - quantity over quality.

Grimes was a completely pointless signing and it's starting to look like O'Connor was too. Neither are better than what we had before, and seem to have actually provided Smith with one of his other weaknesses - choice.

Now I'm not saying that's the reason why we got hammered last night, but the likelihood of things like that does tend to increase when you gamble on so many players with so little about them. Taking Benning as an example, the lad runs his heart out and tries his best every game, but he's just not good enough - it's like the Alex Nicholls scenario all over again. The same goes for Forde, who surely can't remain in the side based on one decent cross in four or five games as a Walsall player.

With all that said, JonnyOwen makes a really good point in saying Smith picked the team 90% of us would have picked. I thought the same after the game last night, and that's the most worrying thing - why did that group of players perform so poorly just three days after such a good showing?

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Andy_Petterson
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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:28 pm

Ancient Moaner wrote:
Andy_Petterson wrote:
Cowshed wrote:Even with our strongest team we wouldn't have got anything tonight Rochdale were far better so the injury list is irrelevant

The 1st choice team just isn't good enough for the league and 3 wins in 26 confirms this.

We will pick up the odd win if we catch teams off form like we did on Saturday.

Replacing smith may not be the answer but what else do you do? How do you get more out of this squad of players?



I've read some nonsense in my time, but that takes the biscuit.



You were obviously not there last night then, if you had been you will know how true that line was.
If we had played the game with 22 of our entire squad, Rochdale would still have scagged us, they were quick, incisive, FIT, well organised, knew exactly how to attack efficiently and will be a power to be reckoned with in this division.

Further to Mr. 'I'm a large overweight slow moving petrol tanker' Mon-Say, love some of the lines in posts above that underlined his totally inept performance!
I have always been a believer in the need for a well proportioned black (can I say that?) striker/poacher up front (the likes of Akinfenwa) but after last night I have changed my stance
completely.
I honestly think that he will tear up his own contract, or have it terminated by 'mutual consent' and will trot (he can't run) back to Frrrance within a matter of weeks.


Erm, I was there AM, and share the frustrations of others, but I know enough about Walsall's squad to say that if Bradshaw, J Chambers, A Chambers and Sam Mantom were 100% and had played we wouldn't have lost 4-0.

Also, A Taylor got injured, and I hope for dear life that Manset had some sort of injury, or at very least wasn't match fit. If he was then he's the worst signing since Neville Chamberlain signed the Munich agreement.

I'm not saying its a get out clause for losing 4-0, but to say the injury list is irrelevant (cowshed's words) is just wrong and doesn't help us to understand what wrong and how it can get better.

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Re: Rochdale Away

Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:04 pm

Saying the mossive injury list is irrelevant is like saying we have good, equivalent cover in every position. Clearly not true. Given a bit of fortune with injuries, this squad IS capable of mid-table. Having said that, we do seem (and have seemed for some time) a bit of a lightweight team with many players easily forced off the ball in close encounters. A bit of steel in midfield is needed.

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