Rochdale Away

[cumbria-saddler]

So Sadsfan, you are clearly saying;

"Paul Merson is a better manager than Dean Smith"

You are willing to stand by that statement?

The squad Merson 'managed' was playing in Division 1 the season before. I assume we'd have had a much bigger budget, and our attendances were around 5,500/6000, so 1.5/2k bigger than what we get now. He left us battling to stay up in league one 18 months after being in the Chapmionship.

Smith inherited a squad more or less bottom of league one, and has kept us up since, and we've been challenging the playoffs briefly. He has a much smaller budget to work with, I assume, as our crowds are 3,500 - 4,000 most weeks. I know we've won 3 in 26 or whatever, but Merson did a much worse job considering the circumstances.

Say what you like about win ratios, but they don't give the full picture. I'd much rather have Smith in charge than Merson.

[gray]

I have always been a believer in the need for a well proportioned black (can I say that?) striker/poacher up front (the likes of Akinfenwa) but after last night I have changed my stance completely.

Embarassing comment. You're not only writing off Manset's Walsall career after one game, you're saying that you have "changed your stance completely" on black strikers after one game by Mattieu Manset. I presume you wouldn't want Didier Drogba on loan because he has the same skin colour as Manset? I presume you've changed your stance on people with the same skin colour as O'Connor, who was equally shocking? Are we allowed players with ginger hair after Flanagan's stinker?

Keep your "ancient" racism elsewhere.

Strange that, I'm the one always tagged with the 'Racialist' (with acknowledgement to Nanna off Benidorm) slur...............
Who was it that sat next to the Afro Caribbean and Asian guy for the whole of the second half on Tuesday night, whilst all the rest of you puritanical, self opinionated 'good guys' out there, left a gap around them as if they were contagious! Two great guys who were very knowledgeable about footy, and damn good Walsall fans!

And so, how else would you have someone describe the likes of Akinfenwa & Drogba, pray tell?

Strong, hold the ball up well, give defenders a hard time? I'd describe them based on their footballing abilities rather than the colour of their skin. It's so weird that you would judge other black players based on the performance of Manset.

I was probably sat by the same Asian man and his black friend in the first half, Mal Benning's dad and his mate. As if sitting near somebody of another race means you can't be accused of racism anyway, I'm sure they'd be equally baffled by your comment as I am.

[Wyrley_saddler]

At the end of the day, Merson's record is completely irrelevant. What is relevant is 3 wins in the last 26 games. That's got relegation fodder written all over it. Also, our performances this season, on the whole, have been abysmal, particularly at home. Smith and ROK seem to try the same things over and over but to no avail and no change in results. For me, the writing is well and truly on the wall for them both. Yes, they've been unlucky with injuries this season but this goes much further back than this season, what's the excuse for the back end of last season? Best to make a change soon and give a manager time to save our season rather than leaving it too late.

[Whitters]

I want continuity as long as the football is really good.
I want a dynasty as long as the football is really good.
If Smith loses the next few games I'd have to start saying that he's not the bloke to bring it to us.
But a blip is fine.
But the next few games are crucial.
Equally crucial is who comes in to replace him if he goes.
It's like an owner, you could get anyone and you could get someone completely hopeless and more time goes down the gurgler and we all get older.

[Ancient Moaner]

I have always been a believer in the need for a well proportioned black (can I say that?) striker/poacher up front (the likes of Akinfenwa) but after last night I have changed my stance completely.

Embarassing comment. You're not only writing off Manset's Walsall career after one game, you're saying that you have "changed your stance completely" on black strikers after one game by Mattieu Manset. I presume you wouldn't want Didier Drogba on loan because he has the same skin colour as Manset? I presume you've changed your stance on people with the same skin colour as O'Connor, who was equally shocking? Are we allowed players with ginger hair after Flanagan's stinker?

Keep your "ancient" racism elsewhere.

Strange that, I'm the one always tagged with the 'Racialist' (with acknowledgement to Nanna off Benidorm) slur...............
Who was it that sat next to the Afro Caribbean and Asian guy for the whole of the second half on Tuesday night, whilst all the rest of you puritanical, self opinionated 'good guys' out there, left a gap around them as if they were contagious! Two great guys who were very knowledgeable about footy, and damn good Walsall fans!

And so, how else would you have someone describe the likes of Akinfenwa & Drogba, pray tell?

Strong, hold the ball up well, give defenders a hard time? I'd describe them based on their footballing abilities rather than the colour of their skin. It's so weird that you would judge other black players based on the performance of Manset.

I was probably sat by the same Asian man and his black friend in the first half, Mal Benning's dad and his mate. As if sitting near somebody of another race means you can't be accused of racism anyway, I'm sure they'd be equally baffled by your comment as I am.

Now there you go...that's IT in a nutshell, if I say 'black' it's racialist, if you say it, it's excusable, double standards my friend.............wish you hadn't typed that now don't you! :?

Worst of all I now realise that FHTF may have been sat near to me in that second half of pap!

[gray]

Saying black is fine. Saying that you've "changed your stance" on black players because one black player had a bad game for Walsall is not. I can't really make it any clearer.

[funk_hits_the_fan]

I have always been a believer in the need for a well proportioned black (can I say that?) striker/poacher up front (the likes of Akinfenwa) but after last night I have changed my stance completely.

Embarassing comment. You're not only writing off Manset's Walsall career after one game, you're saying that you have "changed your stance completely" on black strikers after one game by Mattieu Manset. I presume you wouldn't want Didier Drogba on loan because he has the same skin colour as Manset? I presume you've changed your stance on people with the same skin colour as O'Connor, who was equally shocking? Are we allowed players with ginger hair after Flanagan's stinker?

Keep your "ancient" racism elsewhere.

Strange that, I'm the one always tagged with the 'Racialist' (with acknowledgement to Nanna off Benidorm) slur...............
Who was it that sat next to the Afro Caribbean and Asian guy for the whole of the second half on Tuesday night, whilst all the rest of you puritanical, self opinionated 'good guys' out there, left a gap around them as if they were contagious! Two great guys who were very knowledgeable about footy, and damn good Walsall fans!

And so, how else would you have someone describe the likes of Akinfenwa & Drogba, pray tell?

Strong, hold the ball up well, give defenders a hard time? I'd describe them based on their footballing abilities rather than the colour of their skin. It's so weird that you would judge other black players based on the performance of Manset.

I was probably sat by the same Asian man and his black friend in the first half, Mal Benning's dad and his mate. As if sitting near somebody of another race means you can't be accused of racism anyway, I'm sure they'd be equally baffled by your comment as I am.

Now there you go...that's IT in a nutshell, if I say 'black' it's racialist, if you say it, it's excusable, double standards my friend.............wish you hadn't typed that now don't you! :?

Worst of all I now realise that FHTF may have been sat near to me in that second half of pap!

If I have hurt your feeling Mr Moaner I apologise.

I appreciate it is probably not a racial thing but a generation thing. It was the same with my Grandad - said similar things to yourself, different generations and all of that. He never meant any harm and I don't really think Ancient Moaner does......

I went to a school in Handsworth; I know a bit about race :lol:

[Tyldesley_saddler]

Worst of all I now realise that FHTF may have been sat near to me in that second half of pap![/quote]

If I have hurt your feeling Mr Moaner I apologise.

I appreciate it is probably not a racial thing but a generation thing. It was the same with my Grandad - said similar things to yourself, different generations and all of that. He never meant any harm and I don't really think Ancient Moaner does......

I went to a school in Handsworth; I know a bit about race :lol:[/quote]


And your still here to tell the tale :mrgreen:

[Ancient Moaner]

I was probably sat by the same Asian man and his black friend in the first half, Mal Benning's dad and his mate. As if sitting near somebody of another race means you can't be accused of racism anyway, I'm sure they'd be equally baffled by your comment as I am.[/quote]

Now there you go...that's IT in a nutshell, if I say 'black' it's racialist, if you say it, it's excusable, double standards my friend.............wish you hadn't typed that now don't you! :?

Worst of all I now realise that FHTF may have been sat near to me in that second half of pap![/quote]

If I have hurt your feeling Mr Moaner I apologise.

I appreciate it is probably not a racial thing but a generation thing. It was the same with my Grandad - said similar things to yourself, different generations and all of that. He never meant any harm and I don't really think Ancient Moaner does......

I went to a school in Handsworth; I know a bit about race :lol:[/quote]

Cheers my friend, I have had to endure the last 15 years in the Islamic state of Dewsbury, which has 'clouded' my judgment! I apologise to anyone I might have inadvertently offended in the past.
I am now back in the land of pleasant green pastures....and it's great, I am a reformed character! :D

[saddlerJP]

Smith and ROK seem to try the same things over and over but to no avail and no change in results

There lies the problem IMO.

Smith was given copious amounts of praise for coming out of our 'blip' the season before last for not changing his beliefs and style of play. He is going to continue to do the same this time

I have given Deano a stack of stick for his inability to change the tide and adapt to Rochdale's game plan but I'm no where near being in the Smith Out camp, but it will come, unless he adapts and results improve. Our current run of form and especially our home form is unacceptable

It's clear to everyone we are to light weight team of midgets and we lack pace and directness, his summer signings in the whole have been terrible. He needs to be brave enough to put that right.

I don't like how he singled Downing out after the game, but at least it wasn't the same old we were unlucky and the ref cost us twaddle.

He was quick enough to put the boot into the team in the months after he took over from Hutchings, but now they're his signings this is the first time he's really said anything negative and then he put the blame squarely on the defence and mainly Paul Downing

[hullsaddler]

I went to a school in Handsworth;:

Which one? I was born in Handsworth & went to Grove Lane Primary 1957-63

[nottmsaddler]

This is basically deja vu. When we went 18 without a win and lost to Lincoln at home, that felt like rock bottom (much worse than this IMO) and it was either get rid of Smith (the majority of opinion) or stick with him. I said at the time, if we get rid, we run the risk of going into a cycle of poor managers and probable relegation and its the same now. The risk is there. We can't trust the owner to get it right - its 50/50 at best, just like it was when Smith came in (and we screamed 'cheap option') and it all worked out fine at the time.

After the 'great escape' we have had some relatively good times, over achieving at least in terms of the players and budget for wages against supposedly bigger clubs. But I think that is the problem. When we were s**t and knew we were, a lucky escape and acceptance that every season would be a struggle was OK. Now we've sniffed the play-offs for a couple of years, we think we belong there but we don't. If you compare the squads, income (that they can use, not the bit that ends up in a pension fund), attendances and resources against the other 23 teams we are clearly well down the list, maybe in the bottom 5-6. That's why we are always one of the favourites to go down with the bookies.

So by winning games and playing attractive football, Smith has effectively created an expectation that I'm not sure was ever that achievable year-on-year. Nowadays, when we don't win its a disaster and he's an idiot, but he was still the same manager that won against Southampton playing long ball, scored 5 or six goals in a few games, took us on a couple of long unbeaten runs and sent a team out that SHOULD have scored 12-13 goals at Notts County with fast counter attacking. So he can hardly be branded one-dimensional as I've read somewhere.

I'm far from being one of the 'Smith In' brigade. If we continue to get performances like we did on Tuesday night, I'll be saying he should go as much as the next supporter but until Tuesday, we haven't been terrible this season and I don't believe Smith becomes a bad manager overnight either. You can't put the wins, escapes or dramatic change to a much more attractive passing game down to luck. We have spells. That is a Smith-trait that correlates with the playing style. We have spells when we do well, get on a run and win a few games but equally we find it hard to shake off poor spells that go on too long. And in between we stop creating chances and have four 1-1 draws on the trot. But for a club of our size, I'm not sure that's a surprise. We aren't good enough to play well all the time and win every game. If we were we'd be playing Champions League and Smith would be England manager but that's not how this game works - unfortunately.

My bigger fear is we pull the trigger because everyone says it's for the best and find out that the worst is still to come.

[SWS1]

On the whole, teams who stick with a manager do better than the changers. That's not to say it's ALWAYS the case but, on average, it is. Unfortunately, I can't remember where I read it, but it was probably either a BBC feature or The Sunday Times. We haven't done well this season (or back-end of last) but I'm all for waiting AT LEAST until we see what happens when our injured players come back before calling for Smith's head.
Glass 46.2% full.
:)

[tinned]

On the whole, teams who stick with a manager do better than the changers. That's not to say it's ALWAYS the case but, on average, it is. Unfortunately, I can't remember where I read it, but it was probably either a BBC feature or The Sunday Times. We haven't done well this season (or back-end of last) but I'm all for waiting AT LEAST until we see what happens when our injured players come back before calling for Smith's head.
Glass 46.2% full.
:)

I always wonder about this theory. Is it that clubs who stick with a manager do better or the clubs that do better just keep their manager longer?

[aaaae]

On the whole, teams who stick with a manager do better than the changers. That's not to say it's ALWAYS the case but, on average, it is. Unfortunately, I can't remember where I read it, but it was probably either a BBC feature or The Sunday Times. We haven't done well this season (or back-end of last) but I'm all for waiting AT LEAST until we see what happens when our injured players come back before calling for Smith's head.
Glass 46.2% full.
:)

I always wonder about this theory. Is it that clubs who stick with a manager do better or the clubs that do better just keep their manager longer?

Yep, successful clubs don't sack their manager.

[Cully]

Well I've read the whole thread and we were probably just unlucky.