Crystal Palace League Cup 2nd rd, Tues 26th Aug, 7.45pm

[WFC_Rob]

We got ripped apart by an £8 million striker with a point to prove. Other than being naive and physically second best, we were no worse tonight than we were in any of our league games. Course it's the same old problems, but I'm not sure why so many people went tonight expecting much else.

The one unforgivable performance of the night was our captain's decision to hand them the ball for the free kick that led to the first goal. If ever there was an example of a team being too nice, that was it.

[mel58]

No surprise we lost to a team who still reflect the approach of Tony Pulis, but we would have struggled to beat anyone with our performance this evening, especially the first half display, which was paceless and passionless. Our 'defensive shortcomings' contributed to the first and second goals as well.

Sawyers was, once again, lacking in so many areas. Without the presence of Mantom we rely on him to make the difference but he just doesn't seem up for the challenge.

[leics_saddler]

This is dismal, make no mistake. We do not look capable of ever going on a cup run.
10 years ago, we were in D4 giving Bolton a fright.
We showed a bit of character against a poor QPR a couple of years back, but this is far worse.
It's not good enough to say that they are a PL side, does that mean we should hand over the game at the outset?
Tthe evidence is there in the thread already:


I don't even know what that is - it just looks like a total lack of interest.

Even so, most other 'lower table L1 sides" seem to be making a much better fist of it than we are.

Silly half time - Leicester City 0 Sloppies 1

Well Grigg has done so again....now 2-0 to the Dongas

What the hell is going on?
Grigg and MK Dongs - of all teams - are going to grab every headline, which is unfortunate for the slops.
Even Oxford put up a spirited display.

I love to see Walsall playing good football, but what I won't tolerate is a load of attractive going through the motions.
Signing Manset isn't actually going to help at the moment because Bradshaw and Grimes are doing nothing wrong.
Forde was an absolutely pointless desperation signing - as bad as Hemmings in my view, but I kept my gob shut at the outset and asked that he be given the chance at Orient, such was our need for changes. He wasted the chance of the game by being a total big-time charlie.

We are 20th with a relegation six-pointer (already! - in August!) on Saturday.
Our style is going to count for nothing without substance.

[derbysaddler]

Not at all, its the persistance with a brand of football that is getting worse not better. There isnt an end product to it.

He needs to be flexible. And none of this 'give him till Christmas' bollocks anymore. He needs to be urgent about this. Ah, let me guess, Mullens around the corner if Smith goes is he again? That's the usual toss that gets banded around on here.

[ToeJoe Jnr]

We got ripped apart by an £8 million striker with a point to prove. Other than being naive and physically second best, we were no worse tonight than we were in any of our league games. Course it's the same old problems, but I'm not sure why so many people went tonight expecting much else.

The one unforgivable performance of the night was our captain's decision to hand them the ball for the free kick that led to the first goal. If ever there was an example of a team being too nice, that was it.

I went with the expectation that these players want to pit themselves against the best players in England. Granted Palace aren't England's finest but they are a Premier League team and will be better than we face week in week out. The fact it seemed a passionate less affair speaks volumes about this squad, we weren't up for it and that is what worries me.

[Pedagogue]

It's difficult to know where to start when looking back on tonight's game. It certainly was a case of "same old, same old". Palace's first goal summed up our problem. They took a quick free-kick while we were arguing with the referee and the ball was played in quickly, along the ground to Dwight Gayle who finished it well. For the benefit of Messrs Smith and O'Kelly, I will repeat those words - "the ball was played in quickly, along the ground". What do we do? We look great until we reach our attacking third and then we fanny about, making pass after pass after pass .. ad nauseam. By this time, of course, the opposition has got back behind the ball, organised themselves, read a couple of chapters of War & Peace, discussed which night-club they're going to after the game and tried to stifle the boredom waiting for us to make a penetrating run or pass. Needless to say, any possible opportunity has long gone by then.

On the odd occasions we try to pass the ball in from the wings, again it is usually delivered too late and when it is, it has to be a high cross - this when we do not have a player who is any good in the air! Not once did we win a high challenge in their penalty area tonight. That brick shithouse, Brede Hangeland, must have thought it was his birthday, with us playing to HIS strength. He has the turning circle of an oil tanker but did we try to keep the ball on the ground and turn him? No, we didn't. The fact that Palace had Hennessy, another giant, in goal merely underlined the stupidity of our tactics.

I don't think that there is too much wrong with our playing personnel, given our budget. It is our tactics that are awful and the coaching staff have to take full responsibility for that. I wonder how much time is spent on the training ground on our play in our attacking third. Well, however much it is - it's not enough! Defending at set-pieces might be another thing to practise - slow to react and organise at a free-kick for their first goal. See the picture of our "wall" in the posts above for their second goal - about as solid as an MFI wardrobe!

Mention has been made of Sawyers's performance. Anybody who boos one of our players is a moron but it has to be said that Sawyers's display tonight was pathetic. He needs taking out of the firing line, not even on the subs' bench, while he works on his game. Maybe his break with the St. Kitts & Nevis national team will help him rebuild his confidence. At the moment he is a liability. He is arguably the most technically gifted of all our players but his contribution to the team is poor right now.

On the positive side, Kinsella continues to impress and Flanagan looked very promising when he came on. I'm glad that DS used the second half training match as an opportunity to give some minutes to Baxendale, Flanagan and Benning against a Premier League team.

I wonder what our tactics will be if Manset really has signed? Just a final reminder to Smith and O'Kelly - those magic words "the ball was played in quickly, along the ground". Please read, mark, learn and inwardly digest!

[leics_saddler]

Palace are in mild disarray already.
They have no manager, their first replacement idea has bit the dust and their second is being lined up at QPR.
There's no league win in sight for them and they were there for the taking by any lower league team who could give them a fright.

We're so bloody nice that we probably offered them fries and a regular coke with our first half effort.
I can't criticise a team for being sportsmanlike and playing attractive football, but Jesus, will someone put a rocket up them? Anyone?

[mel58]

It's difficult to know where to start when looking back on tonight's game. It certainly was a case of "same old, same old". Palace's first goal summed up our problem. They took a quick free-kick while we were arguing with the referee and the ball was played in quickly, along the ground to Dwight Gayle who finished it well. For the benefit of Messrs Smith and O'Kelly, I will repeat those words - "the ball was played in quickly, along the ground". What do we do? We look great until we reach our attacking third and then we fanny about, making pass after pass after pass .. ad nauseam. By this time, of course, the opposition has got back behind the ball, organised themselves, read a couple of chapters of War & Peace, discussed which night-club they're going to after the game and tried to stifle the boredom waiting for us to make a penetrating run or pass. Needless to say, any possible opportunity has long gone by then.

On the odd occasions we try to pass the ball in from the wings, again it is usually delivered too late and when it is, it has to be a high cross - this when we do not have a player who is any good in the air! Not once did we win a high challenge in their penalty area tonight. That brick shithouse, Brede Hangeland, must have thought it was his birthday, with us playing to HIS strength. He has the turning circle of an oil tanker but did we try to keep the ball on the ground and turn him? No, we didn't. The fact that Palace had Hennessy, another giant, in goal merely underlined the stupidity of our tactics.

I don't think that there is too much wrong with our playing personnel, given our budget. It is our tactics that are awful and the coaching staff have to take full responsibility for that. I wonder how much time is spent on the training ground on our play in our attacking third. Well, however much it is - it's not enough! Defending at set-pieces might be another thing to practise - slow to react and organise at a free-kick for their first goal. See the picture of our "wall" in the posts above for their second goal - about as solid as an MFI wardrobe!

Mention has been made of Sawyers's performance. Anybody who boos one of our players is a moron but it has to be said that Sawyers's display tonight was pathetic. He needs taking out of the firing line, not even on the subs' bench, while he works on his game. Maybe his break with the St. Kitts & Nevis national team will help him rebuild his confidence. At the moment he is a liability. He is arguably the most technically gifted of all our players but his contribution to the team is poor right now.

On the positive side, Kinsella continues to impress and Flanagan looked very promising when he came on. I'm glad that DS used the second half training match as an opportunity to give some minutes to Baxendale, Flanagan and Benning against a Premier League team.

I wonder what our tactics will be if Manset really has signed? Just a final reminder to Smith and O'Kelly - those magic words "the ball was played in quickly, along the ground". Please read, mark, learn and inwardly digest!

I couldn't agree more; I just couldn't be bothered to write it all down.

[Ancient Moaner]

I read the above posts with a tear in my heart, MY team is being ridiculed by even the most 'ardent' of fans, I have been stating the obvious for weeks, but have been attacked verbally is if I am the only one to see that we have a REAL problem.
Please me babbies, reverse this dirge of form for all our sakes, bring back some passion, give us something to cheer, even if we lose...please score a goal, it's been sooo long in coming, we only ever see the ball being retrieved from our own net! :(

[Graydon48]

I think the most damming comment of the night came from their caretaker boss who said thankfully they came through with no injuries . We us playing a non contact game no surprise. At least they might find it hard to sleep tonight they must still have loads of energy to burn.

[sallian]

Why are we so monstrously different at home than away from home? Teams sit back, we have no legs in behind, and no-one is brave enough to run at their defenders apart from Taylor. We just pass it around VERY predictably in front of their 2 banks of four, and end up losing it or winning a corner (which we will never score from).

Does this sound familiar to anyone?

Chambers to Clifford, Clifford to Taylor, Taylor to Forde, Forde to Taylor, Taylor to Clifford, Clifford to Chambers, back to Clifford, back to Chambers, over to Grimes, Grimes to Kinsella, Kinsella to Grimes, Grimes to Chambers, Chambers to Clifford, Clifford to Taylor, Taylor to Sawyers, Sawyers to Clifford - ball lost and we get counter attacked.

Maybe the plan is to bore the other team into losing concentration....but Smith needs to realise that he is boring his own team and supporters into losing concentration

[sallian]

Not at all, its the persistance with a brand of football that is getting worse not better. There isnt an end product to it.

He needs to be flexible. And none of this 'give him till Christmas' jacksons anymore. He needs to be urgent about this. Ah, let me guess, Mullens around the corner if Smith goes is he again? That's the usual toss that gets banded around on here.

I have more confidence in Mullen's attacking ideas than Smiths....in fact I am beginning to prefer every previous manager's attacking ideas to Smith's. Have we ever had such accurate expectations of not scoring when entering a game?

I didn't go to a match because I thought they wouldn't score...and I was right. Walsall have become predictably impotent....

Players are being brought in played out of position and shackled by non0offensive formation and style...this is time turns capable players into mentally tired and low confidence players...a decent manager would stop the rot and make some significant changes to style/formation.... but Smith doesn't see what everyone else sees it seems....or as others have said, he is too stubborn.

[aaaae]

It's difficult to know where to start when looking back on tonight's game. It certainly was a case of "same old, same old". Palace's first goal summed up our problem. They took a quick free-kick while we were arguing with the referee and the ball was played in quickly, along the ground to Dwight Gayle who finished it well. For the benefit of Messrs Smith and O'Kelly, I will repeat those words - "the ball was played in quickly, along the ground". What do we do? We look great until we reach our attacking third and then we fanny about, making pass after pass after pass .. ad nauseam. By this time, of course, the opposition has got back behind the ball, organised themselves, read a couple of chapters of War & Peace, discussed which night-club they're going to after the game and tried to stifle the boredom waiting for us to make a penetrating run or pass. Needless to say, any possible opportunity has long gone by then.

On the odd occasions we try to pass the ball in from the wings, again it is usually delivered too late and when it is, it has to be a high cross - this when we do not have a player who is any good in the air! Not once did we win a high challenge in their penalty area tonight. That brick shithouse, Brede Hangeland, must have thought it was his birthday, with us playing to HIS strength. He has the turning circle of an oil tanker but did we try to keep the ball on the ground and turn him? No, we didn't. The fact that Palace had Hennessy, another giant, in goal merely underlined the stupidity of our tactics.

I don't think that there is too much wrong with our playing personnel, given our budget. It is our tactics that are awful and the coaching staff have to take full responsibility for that. I wonder how much time is spent on the training ground on our play in our attacking third. Well, however much it is - it's not enough! Defending at set-pieces might be another thing to practise - slow to react and organise at a free-kick for their first goal. See the picture of our "wall" in the posts above for their second goal - about as solid as an MFI wardrobe!

Mention has been made of Sawyers's performance. Anybody who boos one of our players is a moron but it has to be said that Sawyers's display tonight was pathetic. He needs taking out of the firing line, not even on the subs' bench, while he works on his game. Maybe his break with the St. Kitts & Nevis national team will help him rebuild his confidence. At the moment he is a liability. He is arguably the most technically gifted of all our players but his contribution to the team is poor right now.

On the positive side, Kinsella continues to impress and Flanagan looked very promising when he came on. I'm glad that DS used the second half training match as an opportunity to give some minutes to Baxendale, Flanagan and Benning against a Premier League team.

I wonder what our tactics will be if Manset really has signed? Just a final reminder to Smith and O'Kelly - those magic words "the ball was played in quickly, along the ground". Please read, mark, learn and inwardly digest!

I couldn't agree more; I just couldn't be bothered to write it all down.

Yep I agree too.

Tonight was my first game of the season, as I've been on me hols and I can't believe that we have an even smaller team this season than last season. It was like men against tiny tiny boys. I felt sorry for Andy Taylor, he must be wondering why he re-signed.

One thing Sawyers can do to improve his game is to move towards the ball when it is passed to him. How often was he robbed by a defender nipping between him and the ball, while he is standing on his heels waiting for it to reach him? He even blamed the passer at one point!

Possession football is all well and good but we wait soooooooooooooo long to make each pass we are incredibly easy to defend against. I have to say though Flanagan was the exception. When he came on he was always making himself available and making quick passes to feet. Looks a really good prospect.

[philthesaddler]

We have no attacking ideas. We have no tactical ideas, it's really desperate. I'm afraid to say it's as bad as some of the stuff witnessed under Mullen and Hutchings, but because we have this "attractive" football thing, people just refuse to see it.

Where's the attacking movement? Where's the push-pull tactical moves? (One player dropping deep whilst another runs in behind for example)

[IHTC.]

We have no attacking ideas. We have no tactical ideas, it's really desperate. I'm afraid to say it's as bad as some of the stuff witnessed under Mullen and Hutchings, but because we have this "attractive" football thing, people just refuse to see it.

Where's the attacking movement? Where's the push-pull tactical moves? (One player dropping deep whilst another runs in behind for example)

I applaud you for your bravery Phil.

[aaaae]

We have no attacking ideas. We have no tactical ideas, it's really desperate. I'm afraid to say it's as bad as some of the stuff witnessed under Mullen and Hutchings, but because we have this "attractive" football thing, people just refuse to see it.

Where's the attacking movement? Where's the push-pull tactical moves? (One player dropping deep whilst another runs in behind for example)

To be fair Bradshaw didn't stop running and competing all night, but he was on his own against 4 giant Palace defenders. Also any pass made up to him was delayed so long he didn't stand a chance.

We need at least two runners up front, and preferably more breaking through from midfield, and receiving the pass as soon as they make their move into space.

[Exile]

Disappointed. Not too surprised. Let's hope Manset changes things.

[Tracker34]

If I was at the club today I would be getting the picture of the wall blown up and placed firmly on the lockers of Sawyers, Forde and Clifford to shame them. That is embarrassing and again shows the pathetic nature of footballers today who would rather hurt the team than themselves. Shameful.

Overall a limp, weak, impotent performance. When Dean Holden is the player who is arguably showing the greatest attacking intent then we are always going to be in trouble. Lack of fight was worrying.

Palace are better than us and were better than us last night, but the lack of fight is worrying. You get the feeling that Dean has put a ban on anyone other than the defense and Adam Chambers putting a foot in.

It was painful the amount of times we had players getting in the box with the ball out wide only for the wingers to stop, turn, pass to the side with Clifford and then see the ball heading slowly back to the halfway line. We were never going to beat the Palace players in the air, but whipping one hard and low into the box can cause mayhem at times.

The formation isn't working - Bradshaw is working damn hard but what is he going to do when every ball up to him is a hopeful punt to a 50/50 between him and a player a foot taller? He seems the kind of player that would strive off the balls coming into the box rather than one that came do it all from picking the ball up 35 yards out.

Grimes - Odd signing, It seems to be an either/or with him and Bradshaw. Grimes isn't a right winger, I feel Baxendale would still be prefered to him behind the striker and with Manset coming in too then he isn't got much of a chance of being a main striker.

Sawyers - what is it that keeps him in the team. You get the feeling that he has something on Smith. He was put on the bench on Saturday seemingly as a token gesture. He then replaced Baxendale after an hour - possibly the earliest Smith has ever made a non-forced sub. Then back in the team the next game. You can't expect Bax to come straight in and perform wonders, but give him a run in the team and see what he can do.

Would love to see more of Bakayoko, but feel with Manset coming in that this is less likely. Would be good to see more of Flanagan too. If they are there to have the odd 15 minutes off the bench every few games then it may be worth seeing if we can get them some Football League experience at one of the lower League 2 clubs. Surely better than not playing.

[WFC_Rob]

You can't expect Bax to come straight in and perform wonders, but give him a run in the team and see what he can do.

I agree. The problem we've got is that other than a very brief cameo, Baxendale hasn't played in his preferred position, and the one that earned him a new three year contract, in over a year. Even when Sawyers doesn't play, we now slot Grimes into that position, with Baxendale playing wide. For a player who genuinely looked a real threat in said position the season before last, I find that baffling.

[latviancheese]

You can't expect Bax to come straight in and perform wonders, but give him a run in the team and see what he can do.

I agree. The problem we've got is that other than a very brief cameo, Baxendale hasn't played in his preferred position, and the one that earned him a new three year contract, in over a year. Even when Sawyers doesn't play, we now slot Grimes into that position, with Baxendale playing wide. For a player who genuinely looked a real threat in said position the season before last, I find that baffling.

He gave him an unheard of three year deal and then left him to rot on bench. Extremely stupid.

[philthesaddler]

Bradshaw certainly works hard, but wont trouble defences because he has not real qualities - he's not quick, he's not particularly strong, he's not particularly wiley.

I think it's an indictment of Smith that we've now signed Manset, and despite the fact that he'll probably walk in to the team on the basis that he's better than most of our forwards, Smith's refusal to change things makes it very difficult to know where he would play. Is Smith going to try and shoehorne him in in place of Grimes and push Bradshaw out wide? Surely the odds on Smith changing formation and pushing 2 up top is unlikely.

Our main attacking outlet last night was Andy Taylor - that appears to be our only plan, get the ball to Taylor, take 3 touches, cross it. Effectively, Forde and Grimes were totally non existent last night, they were totally anonymous and marked out of the game by Williams and Marriapa.

As for Sawyers - I dont know, he has undoubted quality - he had a terrific run of games last season where he was unplayable, but he's now at the opposite end of the spectrum and is totally useless, more of a hindrance than anything, wont get stuck in, wont sprint, too easily pushed off the ball, neither a midfielder, nor a striker - a complete waste of a shirt. As somebody else said, he shouldn't be on the coach to Scunthorpe on current form, he needs a rocket cos a lad with his talent shouldn't be wasteman, to borrow some patois.

[Leatherman]

Palace came with a game plan and carried it out to perfection.

They had guile and (relative) quality in their attacking line up and didn't waste any time in using it. First goal after 6mins ( I hadn't even licked the remains of my pie off my fingers!) showed their intent from the off.

That was a lesson in taking quick free kicks: catch your opponents asleep and put them on the back foot. NOT a quick aimless two yard ball to your team mate who has an opponent within spitting distance, but a ball played to create havoc in the defence.

Don't mention the fudge wall; it wouldn't have stopped a wet fart!

A quick mention for Clifford who I thought ran the midfield last night; best game he has had for us so far.

Kinsella was left marking the biggest Scunthorpe I've seen since Ngoo at a corner, but he didn't shirk his responsibility even though he would have needed scaffolding to get anywhere near him. (who organises the defence theses days?)

Sawyers looked as though his mind was somewhere else: he was wandering around the pitch with the air of someone who is trying to convert Fahrenheit to centigrade in his head while his house is burning down.

Probably the same place as Adam Chambers' who looked demoralised all match, after he had inadvertently helped set up their first goal.

Flanagan looked eager and sharp when he came on and Baxendale was the loudest bloke on the pitch, although none of his team mates appeared to hear him.

Benning: He's not a bad footballer, but what is he? Defender? Winger? Striker? He's a solution without a problem.

Thank God we still have Andy Taylor who, after last night, must have been straight on to his agent: " GET ME OUT OF HERE!

Apart from that it was ok.

[Walsall_Casual]

I get sick off reading 'X came with a game plan and pulled it off with perfection'... With respect my 3 year old would be capable of that against us. We are so predictively ineffective it's unreal.

1. We aren't good enough to play effective 'tippy-tappy'. Opponents sussed us out 12-18 months ago. 2. Smith's signings have been bewildering. 3. Underwhelmed by Manset signing, not convinced he is the answer - we will see. 4. Sawyers is lazy. His laziness cost us Palace's second. 4. Current squad has no bottle whatsoever, embarrassing. Other than that we are in good shape.

If I have to I can accept 1, 2 & 3. I can and will not accept 4!

Dean Holden is my Player of the Year so far. Help!

[Cully]

Congratulations Pedagogue for your report, there cannot be anyone who would disagree with your summing up. Help yourself to a sweet from the jar.

:D

[Pedagogue]

Congratulations Pedagogue for your report, there cannot be anyone who would disagree with your summing up. Help yourself to a sweet from the jar.

:D

You're too kind, Cully! :D

[rushallred]

If these numpties are so scared of getting hit by the ball, I would suggest that they have chosen the wrong profession.

If you cover your nuts and keep your chin down the worst thing that can happen is that the ball hitting you might sting for a couple of seconds.

If I was Dean Smith I would get an old Wembley Trophy football and blast it at these three repeatedly from ten yards as punishment.

[Fozza61]

Substitutes: At least Flanagan looked good when he came on. the only bright light to come out of the evening I reckon

O'Connor
Baxendale
McGillivray
Benning
Flanagan
Morris
Bakayoko

[rushallred]

Our support was pathetically quiet on Tuesday night from the 7th minute onwards.

I thought it would be better with the upper and middle being closed and the end being pretty much full, but I barely heard a peep from them all night.

[Welsh_Saddler]

Substitutes:

O'Connor
Baxendale
McGillivray
Benning
Flanagan
Morris
Bakayoko

No, THIS is what I wrote......... :?