Yeovil Town - League One (H) Tuesday 19th August 7.45pm

[IHTC.]

Anyone who says Bradshaw is crap must be a complete tool. Great work rate, great movement, good speed, scores goals. And all this while being isolated upfront, god help him if he was lazy.

[JonnyOwen]

Credit to Sawyers for admitting on Twitter that he had a really bad game and knows he needs to do a lot better, I really like his attitude.

[leics_saddler]

This is my first post this season. Judging by the utter tedium served up so far, who would blame me for not going? I don't even listen nowadays.
But lack of goals aside, the team under Dogface and Muddle were really quite unprofessional.
Poor football and more importantly poor professionalism.
To let a goal in a minute after you get yourselves back in the match is as bad as letting one in the last minute.
I don't want this happening over and over again.

We had 16 shots tonight, 3 on target.
I don't know, was it all long range rubbish or did we try and pass it in?
Everyone is saying it's tippy tappy and no cutting edge, this would explain the too many 10s and no 9s - it's exactly where we left off last year.

But I am interested in Jonny Owen's point about players being shoehorned in out of position.
It reminds me of when Capello got hold of Rooney in his first ever game.
He told him to his face to stop messing about and get in where a No 9 should be.
It needs good movement off the ball upfront and someone taking a chance running into the box.

It's an english malaise that we saw in the World Cup, 5 players to create the chance means that nobody is in there to finish it.
This isn't even a new thing. I saw Northampton play like it 25 years ago.
They were a lovely side to watch but they would never beat us in a million years and so it proved when they finished next to bottom.

[pumajaguar]

I don't buy this whole "we need a striker" mentality that I am hearing on WM. Sure, we need someone else who can play up front that can bring us something different, but as for strikers I really think we have unearthed a good one here in Bradshaw as he looks bloody excellent. Do you know what the problem is?

The three behind him, and to me, one of Dean Smiths biggest fans mind you, this three has problems because of him. Grimes, Deano said he is one of the best finishers he has ever seen, and to be honest I really rate him. He has quick feet, a good shot, a great touch and a really good passing rage but most importantly he is a quick thinker and doer. You will hardly see him dally on the ball, taking his time and being slow on the ball, he moves it quickly and effectively... but there is only one problem, he plays in behind the striker in the number 10 role. This means that he gets the Baxendale treatment and is shoehorned off to the wing where he is fractionally as effective than if they were playing in behind, all because ever since he has been brought in, Dean Smith seems forever intent on playing Sawyers no matter what. Sawyers is a brilliant player and will absolutely run a game... when he is on form, however this form comes along once every 10 games. But Dean Smith still plays him when he isn't on form just in case he does play well. I like him, I hated it and had my head in my hands when idiotic and childish fans cheered when he came off, but for donald sake drop him. Have you ever noticed a continual factor during our last season and a bit where we have struggled REALLY BADLY to score goals... it's Sawyers.

I don't know what Sawyers brings that Grimes, or even Baxendale, doesn't. Good players wasted and shoehorned into other positions, all for him.

Play wingers on the wing. Play "number 10's" in the number 10 position. Play strikers up front. Drop Sawyers, even just for a bit.

Completely agree with you regarding Sawyers. Deano seems to putting all his bags in one basket and wants to build the team around him, but I have serious doubts about whether he is good enough.

I'm pretty sure Westcarr was released due to this desire to focus on Saywers and like you said Baxendale never gets a go in his best position as a result of it too.

It's clear that Sawyers has potential, but is he good enough to build a whole team around? Nowhere near if you ask me. As I said we've only won twice in the last 21 games and Sawyers has been poor to average in nearly all of those games. Also, it's not really fair on the lad himself as he is only young and still has a lot of learning to do.

I think a spell on the bench might do him some good in the long run.

[JonnyOwen]

It was a tale of not putting our chances away (AGAIN), a cack referee and a team who is crippled with injury problems.

Promising in flashes, bad in others, but I still remain optimistic and think we can turn out to be a good team and push for play offs. Way too many injuries at the moment as well as a lack of momentum.

[Jolly Johnny]

Credit to Sawyers for admitting on Twitter that he had a really bad game and knows he needs to do a lot better, I really like his attitude.

Just not on the pitch, based on your previous post about the match! :wink:

[JonnyOwen]

Credit to Sawyers for admitting on Twitter that he had a really bad game and knows he needs to do a lot better, I really like his attitude.

Just not on the pitch, based on your previous post about the match! :wink:

:lol:

I like him, good player, brilliant attitude - but he really needs to be given a drop to buck up his ideas and hopefully come out of it better. I think he will go on to do big things, but I think Deano is first of all putting way too much pressure on him and secondly being way too apprehensive to drop him.

Basically he is getting special treatment by Deano, and it seems like this special treatment is hurting him more than helping him.

Also one last thing, anyone over the age of 12 that jeer's our own players, boo's the team, and abuses the players deserves to be castrated.

[Bristol Fan]

We had 16 shots tonight, 3 on target.
I don't know, was it all long range rubbish or did we try and pass it in?
Everyone is saying it's tippy tappy and no cutting edge, this would explain the too many 10s and no 9s - it's exactly where we left off last year.

Bradshaw is a proper number 9 and he's got two goals in three league games, so that's not the problem. Are we really set up to play with a number 9, that's the question for me - we don't put any crosses in, when we have free kicks in decent positions we generally take them quickly to a player two yards away from the taker (and the ball is usually back with O'Donnell three passes later). Grimes looks very neat and tidy, but is he a winger? Not in a million years. Benning is being played as a winger but isn't technically good enough for the position (admirable though his workrate is). Forde - nothing so far to suggest he's as good as even Ashley Hemmings, but it's early days so far too early to make a judgement. Sawyers not at the races yet so far this season - he's maybe even trying too hard at the moment, trying to force fancy flicks and dummies when they're just not on. Play the simple ball, string some passes together, get your confidence built back up.

We've got about 850 number 10s and none of them is as good in that role as Craig Westcarr, who was never even played there last season.

Mantom still to come back and he'll make a difference. Cook hopefully will. Desperately need to sign a Butler replacement and I'm amazed we haven't.

Positives - Kinsella looks so assured, Bradshaw is doing what he's been brought in to do. But this squad doesn't look as good as last season's to me - only a couple of pieces of the jigsaw needed to turn it into something more than decent, but they're very important pieces.

[ToeJoe Jnr]

Forget the first 80 mins and focus on the last 10 mins of today's game. We had a back 4 and Chambers in midfield on his own. Having made subside had 6 attackers playing 2 up front and 4 behind them in support. We were 2-1 down so chasing the game and Yeovil were probably thinking about holding out.

How many shots on goal did we manage....? None barring a free kick that went over from Taylor. That is frankly abysmal!

Smith has managed to amass a team that will score less goals than last season, and we all thought that was impossible. Our MOM was an 18 year old central midfielder playing at right back, that should speak volumes. Downing looks lost without Butler and he is our vice captain. Chambers isn't a leader, I hardly saw him say a word to anyone. Grimes shouldn't be on the right and isn't strong enough to play the lone striker role. Benning is struggling to play the role he is given at present as he wants to play too wide. He would be better in a 4-4-2. Sawyers is off the pace at the moment and we are so pedestrian when it goes through him.

Bradshaw was the only other bright spark for me. He works his socks off, makes clever runs and puts pressure on defenders forcing errors. He is just on his own mist the time as the rest of the team stand and watch. Bakoyoko and Morris showed some neat touches when they came on but if we are relying on inexperienced kids we are going to struggle.

[SoccerHQ]

The booing of Sawyers is moronic but then we've seen that before with talented players.

He is infuriating at times to watch given the lacksadasical way he plays the game but he is a match winner at this level. As the guy on WM said afterwards he'll go somewhere else in league 1 and win games there if the ironic cheering continues.

Otherwise same as ever. Too many decent chances missed at 0-0, Sawyers was the main culprit here in fairness as the others weren't as clear as his.

And just when the hardwork was done to get it back to 1-1 (at which point I thought Walsall would go onto win) a ridiculous goal to give away although I thought Dawson on the right was excellent all game.

Yeovil are a bog standard team. The three that havce come down have to be the worst relegated three in a long time and none will finish in the play offs imo. James Hayter did very little but scored, rare species that at Walsall.

I don't think Benning on the left really works in home games where space is more limited so I'd be starting Forde next time and hopefully Mantom will be fit by then and a new striker brought in.

Can't see anything at Orient at the weekend.

[otiswfc]

If we had a player like James Hayter or jamie cuerton we would have won that game but I know for a fact people on here would be going mad saying there to old blah blah blah but I can guarantee one thing these old has been strikers will be punishing us for various teams all season while we have forwards that would struggle in the conference to score.

[JonnyOwen]

We had 16 shots tonight, 3 on target.
I don't know, was it all long range rubbish or did we try and pass it in?
Everyone is saying it's tippy tappy and no cutting edge, this would explain the too many 10s and no 9s - it's exactly where we left off last year.

Bradshaw is a proper number 9 and he's got two goals in three league games, so that's not the problem. Are we really set up to play with a number 9, that's the question for me - we don't put any crosses in, when we have free kicks in decent positions we generally take them quickly to a player two yards away from the taker (and the ball is usually back with O'Donnell three passes later). Grimes looks very neat and tidy, but is he a winger? Not in a million years.

This is another reason why I think Grimes needs a good run out in that number 10 role, because he is a lot more of a striker than Sawyers who is more of a midfielder. Grimes is quick, and his touch, turn and shot today in the first half showed that - he is a lot more direct and attacking than Sawyers who is more of a support player who provides. I am not sure at the moment that having someone supporting near Bradshaw is what he needs, what he really needs is someone who can help him out attacking wise and not make it all up to him to shoot, run behind and make quick attacking decisions.

[Bristol Fan]

If we had a player like James Hayter or jamie cuerton we would have won that game but I know for a fact people on here would be going mad saying there to old blah blah blah but I can guarantee one thing these old has been strikers will be punishing us for various teams all season while we have forwards that would struggle in the conference to score.

Cureton's scored one in three, Hayter's scored one in three, Bradshaw's scored two in three, but let's not let the facts get in the way I guess.

[SoccerHQ]

Bradshaw is a good player. I had reservations about whether he was ready to be a regular starter in the league but he's proving me wrong.

What I like is he gives the option of going more direct. There was actually a lot more hoofs than usual and a decent amount were actually sticking up top due to Bradshaw holding it.

I actually thought he was a bit unlucky early in the second when he challenged the keeper and it ran to benning who had an open goal.

He should get to double figures if he stays fit, Sawyers could aswell if he wakes up, can't say anyone else. Grimes maybe in yellow cards.

[ChopperWFC]

Bax must wonder what he has to do to get a game ( in his proper position ) when Sawyers is struggling at the moment
Right wing needs sorting quickly hopefully Cook can fill that role.
Bradshaw seems a real find IMHO . He makes intelligent runs and think with the right service can bag more goals than Westcarr last season
Benning is a better winger when playing full back if that makes sense although Taylor would always start so think Forde needs a start
Kinsella rightfully motm
Shooting practice needed . Lots of it as we barely troubled the keeper .
Finally to all those who jeered Sawyers hang your head in shame . I wanted a change as much as anybody but his confidence may be low and you've just knocked it further well done :roll:
Onwards and upwards eh !!

[WFC_Rob]

The worst thing about tonight was that we were so absent of any character or personality in the side. You looked around that team and saw a load of kids who lacked any real nous, guidance, or leadership. Yes, we were poor. Yes, a few players played way below the standards they've performed to previously. But there wasn't a sole in that side who looked like they really wanted to dig in. When you're playing badly, that's exactly what you need to do.

I'm a big fan of Sawyers but he was awful tonight. That said, Benning looked clueless, Grimes offered next to nothing for the second game on the spin, and Clifford couldn't have looked more off the pace if he tried. People can say what they like about Baxendale, but how he didn't make it onto the pitch to breathe some energy into that side was beyond me.

Neither side looked great, but the longer the game went on, the more Yeovil's experience told. It wasn't nice to watch, but the time wasting and tactical fouls at 2-1 kept us at arms reach and meant we never really looked likely to get back into the game.

I'm not convinced we look that much worse at the back than we did last season and I think Bradshaw could just be a good little signing, but Smith needs to get the personnel right with the three that play in behind him. Not one of them threatened at all tonight, which is where everything fell apart.

With Purkiss, Chambers, Mantom, and Cook all injured, I expect Smith to use that as an excuse until they're all in the side. Maybe he's got every right to do so, but we need to find a way of picking up points in the meantime.

[TheSwift]

God that was awful.

Positives:

Bradshaw is a great No.9
Kinsella is very good.
Holden, for his age, actually looked alright and was probably our second best defender.
Grimes was great first half
Clifford looked good and we lost shape when he went off.
Bakayoko and Morris were good when they came on

Negatives:

Taylor had a mare.
Sawyers was god awful. Needs a good kick up the backside and stop with the tricks!! Disagree with the booing though and its good he said sorry on twitter. Fair play.
Forde was quiet and lost the ball.
O'Donnell's distribution was rubbish.
The entire defence seemed suspect again.

We need a CB, a bigger, more muscular striker and our injured players back :D.

Ref was abysmal and there was a clear penalty on Bakayoko which he ignored.

Worst Walsall performance for a while. Still early days though. UTS!

[saddler_nic]

I don't buy this whole "we need a striker" mentality that I am hearing on WM. Sure, we need someone else who can play up front that can bring us something different, but as for strikers I really think we have unearthed a good one here in Bradshaw as he looks bloody excellent. Do you know what the problem is?

The three behind him, and to me, one of Dean Smiths biggest fans mind you, this three has problems because of him. Grimes, Deano said he is one of the best finishers he has ever seen, and to be honest I really rate him. He has quick feet, a good shot, a great touch and a really good passing rage but most importantly he is a quick thinker and doer. You will hardly see him dally on the ball, taking his time and being slow on the ball, he moves it quickly and effectively... but there is only one problem, he plays in behind the striker in the number 10 role. This means that he gets the Baxendale treatment and is shoehorned off to the wing where he is fractionally as effective than if they were playing in behind, all because ever since he has been brought in, Dean Smith seems forever intent on playing Sawyers no matter what. Sawyers is a brilliant player and will absolutely run a game... when he is on form, however this form comes along once every 10 games. But Dean Smith still plays him when he isn't on form just in case he does play well. I like him, I hated it and had my head in my hands when idiotic and childish fans cheered when he came off, but for donald sake drop him. Have you ever noticed a continual factor during our last season and a bit where we have struggled REALLY BADLY to score goals... it's Sawyers.

I don't know what Sawyers brings that Grimes, or even Baxendale, doesn't. Good players wasted and shoehorned into other positions, all for him.

Play wingers on the wing. Play "number 10's" in the number 10 position. Play strikers up front. Drop Sawyers, even just for a bit.

Completely agree with regard to Bradshaw. I know it's early days but he looks a real find. Good touch, holds the ball up really well, has a good turn of pace and seems to have an eye for goal given that he's 2 in 4.

It's a thankless task being Walsall's number 9 at moment, there's just no support from the midfield. There were three or four occasions where Bradshaw had to hold the ball for a good ten seconds before any support arrived. Even if he retains possession, everyone is back behind the ball for the opposition and our attack looses it's impetus.

Not really sure why Smith persists with defensive midfielders for home games either. It's just too negative for me.

[Wyrley_saddler]

We need to ditch this stupid formation. Get back to 4-4-2, get Bradshaw some support and play with players who are actually wingers rather than an out of position striker and a bloody left back.

[leics_saddler]

I've never seen a Walsall team with so many players out of position.
We might as well give Forde a go and play Kinsella in his proper position if he is that good.
The next midfield four should be something like Forde, Kinsella, Chambers/Clifford/Mantom, Morris
There's nothing to lose at Orient - and at least that looks like the right players in their positions.

Sawyers will end up with a free role in the style of Michael Ricketts one day.
Unfortunately he's currently the 20yo Ricketts who got shoved out on the wing all time in the 90s.
Deano obviously sees a great player in there somewhere.

It's nice that he says he can play a lot better, mind you he's a nice lad.
Deano's a nice man, we're a nice club who play nice football.
Where's Vyvyan when you need him?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bomygz1Ygkk[/youtube]

[leics_saddler]

Oh - someone fix that, will you? ^

[sallian]

Put Grimes central and advanced with Bradshaw.....Dean Smith stop turning football into a matter of FORMATION DOGMA

You can't have FIXED PHILOSOPHY and CERTAIN BELIEFS about formations that are not working

Or imposing a system on players who consistently come up short on applying it....maybe the system is wrong

Leave out SAWYERS PERMANENTLY...he is an illusion, the characteristics which makes him stylistically pleasing, partially and occasionally effective are the same qualities that make him regularly UNRELIABLE and DETRIMENTAL...unless there is a transformation of his style...therefore...BAXENDALE is better or one or two others.

TARGET PRACTISE is STILL an ISSUE...... 500 shots a day for three weeks "I must shoot on target"

I am revising my psychological affirmation advice to the strikers.... No longer "I must score five goals every match" but

"I MUST SCORE FIVE GOALS EVERY HALF" this is much better than the celebratory, congratulatory...double page spread in the Express and Star for the Walsall player who scored a goal for the first time in a few months

Dean SMith "I am very pleased for him....he scored a goal" Yes we celebrate scoring a single goal, Newspaper articles get dedicated to one of our strikers scoring one goal.....

If this doesn't tell us there is something wrong with the attacking ambitions of the management, then nothing will.

Other normal teams in the real world of acceptable football have newpapers articles on routing a team, a player scoring a hatrick, a player scoring 25 in a season, winning a cup, finishing in the play offs...that sort of thing.....

but us... we score a goal...and its like we won the FA Cup....

The Express and Star is in collusion with Club ownership to subliminally influence us into having a high tolerance of goal famine

[Tracker34]

Couldn't work out whether it is the system that is failing, or the players in it today. Would say Yeovil were the better team overall and deserved the win. When they attacked in a direct manor they got results.


1) Not getting anywhere near the best from Ashley Grimes out on the right wing.
2) We are playing a great CM of the future at right back - ok he is doing very well, but by all accounts he will be a great CM over the coming years. While his football career is in the very early stages, are we hampering his development over the long term by playing him right back?
3) Never ok to boo players but IMO the first thing you do when you are having a bad day/ bad game is TRY HARDER. Sawyers has mastered the ability to look like he is jumping for a header without ever being at risk of it touching his head. He refuses to go for tackles and doesn't put a foot in for things that are even a 60/40 shot in his favour. Needed to harden up and put the effort it. Players do miss simple shots, do make bad passes and that can be forgiven, but lack of effort is something else.
4) Although that being said, the one man that could have stopped that situation before it spiraled into something that was painful to watch was the manager. Poor decisions. Why keep him on? Why take of Clifford to move three players around, just to keep Romaine on? What must this be doing to the confidence of the likes of Baxendale who has not been able to play what the majority of people consider to be his best position because of the managers physical need to keep Sawyers on the pitch.
5) Bradshaw another one - looks very promising - great running and work rate and from the goals at Vale and today he looks good in the box, but the system isn't helping him. When long balls are pumped forward the best he can do is head on to the keeper or a few feet up in the air. When he gets it far out he doesn't have the support to lay it off too and doesn't appear strong enough to take players on. Looks a great potential, but maybe better with a Grimes or Bakayoko up there with him.
6) Worth a shot with Bakayoko - 10 minutes on the pitch and he seemed to offer something different and put the fear in defenders.

[WFC_Rob]

Put Grimes central and advanced with Bradshaw.....Dean Smith stop turning football into a matter of FORMATION DOGMA

You can't have FIXED PHILOSOPHY and CERTAIN BELIEFS about formations that are not working

Or imposing a system on players who consistently come up short on applying it....maybe the system is wrong

Leave out SAWYERS PERMANENTLY...he is an illusion, the characteristics which makes him stylistically pleasing, partially and occasionally effective are the same qualities that make him regularly UNRELIABLE and DETRIMENTAL...unless there is a transformation of his style...therefore...BAXENDALE is better or one or two others.

TARGET PRACTISE is STILL an ISSUE...... 500 shots a day for three weeks "I must shoot on target"

I am revising my psychological affirmation advice to the strikers.... No longer "I must score five goals every match" but

"I MUST SCORE FIVE GOALS EVERY HALF" this is much better than the celebratory, congratulatory...double page spread in the Express and Star for the Walsall player who scored a goal for the first time in a few months

Dean SMith "I am very pleased for him....he scored a goal" Yes we celebrate scoring a single goal, Newspaper articles get dedicated to one of our strikers scoring one goal.....

If this doesn't tell us there is something wrong with the attacking ambitions of the management, then nothing will.

Other normal teams in the real world of acceptable football have newpapers articles on routing a team, a player scoring a hatrick, a player scoring 25 in a season, winning a cup, finishing in the play offs...that sort of thing.....

but us... we score a goal...and its like we won the FA Cup....

The Express and Star is in collusion with Club ownership to subliminally influence us into having a high tolerance of goal famine

And the prize for strangest post of the year goes to...

:shock:

[IHTC.]

One thing that completely baffled me was why when 2-1 down was Downing taking a free kick 30yards out? surely he should have been in the box trying to get his nut on it. That completely got me mad, absolutely brain dead decision.

[sallian]

Put Grimes central and advanced with Bradshaw.....Dean Smith stop turning football into a matter of FORMATION DOGMA

You can't have FIXED PHILOSOPHY and CERTAIN BELIEFS about formations that are not working

Or imposing a system on players who consistently come up short on applying it....maybe the system is wrong

Leave out SAWYERS PERMANENTLY...he is an illusion, the characteristics which makes him stylistically pleasing, partially and occasionally effective are the same qualities that make him regularly UNRELIABLE and DETRIMENTAL...unless there is a transformation of his style...therefore...BAXENDALE is better or one or two others.

TARGET PRACTISE is STILL an ISSUE...... 500 shots a day for three weeks "I must shoot on target"

I am revising my psychological affirmation advice to the strikers.... No longer "I must score five goals every match" but

"I MUST SCORE FIVE GOALS EVERY HALF" this is much better than the celebratory, congratulatory...double page spread in the Express and Star for the Walsall player who scored a goal for the first time in a few months

Dean SMith "I am very pleased for him....he scored a goal" Yes we celebrate scoring a single goal, Newspaper articles get dedicated to one of our strikers scoring one goal.....

If this doesn't tell us there is something wrong with the attacking ambitions of the management, then nothing will.

Other normal teams in the real world of acceptable football have newpapers articles on routing a team, a player scoring a hatrick, a player scoring 25 in a season, winning a cup, finishing in the play offs...that sort of thing.....

but us... we score a goal...and its like we won the FA Cup....

The Express and Star is in collusion with Club ownership to subliminally influence us into having a high tolerance of goal famine

And the prize for strangest post of the year goes to...

:shock:

Thanks, I look forward to receiving the prize.... I am guessing it is a metaphorical one (perhaps an imaginary day out at the Walsall goal shooting school of excellence....I better make sure I'm available for the one time in a month it is open) :lol: :roll:

I have developed a new Latin Motto for the Club Badge/Crest

'Momentum Meta Primum'

'The Importance of the First Goal' :idea: :wink:

[donnylad]

Big rumour tonight that Bax is coming back to Donny on loan.

[latviancheese]

I was not there tonight, but i find it very odd how Smith does persist with very oddly balanced teams. I think he is trying to be to clever for League One. This is proved by the fact our only real attacking threat is a left back.

Playing Grimes on the right would be okay if when he drifted inside he got in the box. He doesnt, so you cant play him and Sawyers. Getting in each others way.

He wont drop Sawyers saturday, he probably should, but he wont. If anything he should do it to take him out the firing line a bit.

[PT]

Really disappointing.

With 5 or 6 players missing it is a real struggle for us.

I thought we played OK in patches but Yeovil are poor and it looked like two relegation contenders out there tonight.

Bradshaw is a class act. A really good signing. He needs help though. I agree with others, 442 is an option we should explore more often. Our goals scored in the last 18 months suggests the current formation doesn't always/very often cut it.

Reggae night on Radio 2 on a Tuesday so I'd mellowed about the ref and Ashley Grimes by around Junction 14.

[pumajaguar]

I suppose it could be worse. We could have signed Ngoo. Although I imagine his thrifty approach to a nightout would be right up Bonser's street!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/kilmarnock-striker-michael-ngoo-spends-4071045