Port Vale - League One (a) 9th August 3pm

[Exile]

Wah, wah, wah...

I love UTS. :)

Can ya tell the season's started? All the crazies are back off holibobs. Well, most of 'em. :mrgreen:

Best ones are the ones who think everything's directed at them :wink:

[MAsaddler]

Erm,, back to the subject of the match. I went to the game today and i from this perfomance i will be putting in leave to get to the bradford match. The wife can do one, plymouth is a gash place to live.

I cant offer much difference in the opinions given and match reports. One thing i noticed was a disticint lack of a RM / Right winger.. the only occation was when benning swaped over and left the left side open with no LM. Couldnt really understand the formation this game. Overall in attack we look much stronger than last season, Grimes in paticular looks class, and overall the only player i would drop would be Baxendale.

I feel we currently we have better options which provide more creativity and defensive security which Bax isnt doing at the moment. Please put Clifford in his place for the next match... give Bax a chance to review his mentality and come back stronger. He is a talent, but an underperforming talent.

[ToeJoe Jnr]

Erm,, back to the subject of the match. I went to the game today and i from this perfomance i will be putting in leave to get to the bradford match. The wife can do one, plymouth is a gash place to live.

I cant offer much difference in the opinions given and match reports. One thing i noticed was a disticint lack of a RM / Right winger.. the only occation was when benning swaped over and left the left side open with no LM. Couldnt really understand the formation this game. Overall in attack we look much stronger than last season, Grimes in paticular looks class, and overall the only player i would drop would be Baxendale.

I feel we currently we have better options which provide more creativity and defensive security which Bax isnt doing at the moment. Please put Clifford in his place for the next match... give Bax a chance to review his mentality and come back stronger. He is a talent, but an underperforming talent.

I don't disagree with the sentiment of your comments but Baxendale has had a whole season of bench warming and a pre season to review his mentality and come back stronger. I like the kid, he is always willing to try but I just can't see him fitting into the team at present. He can't play in a midfield two or play on the right or left so we are effectively saying he is competing with Sawyers for the no 10 spot.

[ChopperWFC]

If Sawyers doesn't start producing the goods then id put Bax as the number 10. Really rate him but do think Clifford will nab that midfield spot . When he came on he took the game by the scruff and looked class. Thoroughly enjoyed yesterday the vocal support was top stuff can we please keep it going and get behind this team ? They all seem very willing to put a shift in especially Bradshaw up front
Up the Saddlers forever :D

[Leatherman]

I was a bit apprehensive before the game but felt a lot better when it was over.
Overall a promising start I thought. Contrary to others, I thought Baxendale had a good game; he covered every bade of grass on the pitch in the area he was working. Sayers even won a couple of headers and Benning's control of the ball from one long pass was superb (he pulled it out the air with his left foot and killed it). Clifford looked lively when he came on but also lost the ball on a few occasions but stayed positive.

their goal was scruffy ands ours was well worked; I think that was the difference between the performance of both teams.

I couldn't quite work out the shape/formation but the right wing looked empty for most of the second half.

I might even go to Sarfend Tuesday after that performance.

On the Sjoke / Joke thing. This was influenced by Stoke being owned by a group of people from Iceland (the country and not Bejams) who, like all Scandanavians litter their words with 'J's - Bjork for example.

[Rushall Saddler]

Walsall fans, unbelievable. Typical histrionics one game into the season.

Manset is some kind of Henry/Ibrahimovic/Shearer figure because of a decent hour against Leicester in a friendly?! Ridiculous. Ask Coventry fans if he's any good. Ask Carlisle fans if he's any good. If he doesn't want to sign on our terms, why kowtow to him? Who is he? What's he achieved that makes him the great saviour of our season?

And yet Chambers - excellent at central defence against Leyton Orient & Posh last season and by all accounts good again today - will be a liability in the long run because he's no Andy Butler. What?!? I'd like to remind you that Port Vale scored four times in three games against us last season, all of them Butler played in. Two of the goals were his fault.

While I wasn't there today, I'd bet a sizeable amount that we played a 4-4-2 diamond formation with Grimes and Bradshaw up front (which is why Grimes wasn't covering the right flank). Then Sawyers in behind and the other three in deeper midfield positions. Benning, as a natural left-back, offered cover on the left but Bax didn't on the right which was why O'Connor (who most Walsall fans seemed to think would be playing central defence - again, what?!?) was exposed at right-back. That's the formation we've played in preseason, apart from the occasional experiment with three central defenders. I'd be highly surprised if we signed Grimes to throw out on the right wing, especially when Smith described him as one of the best finishers he'd ever seen.

Happy with a point, shame it wasn't three. I look forward to our customary early exit from the League Cup on Tuesday.

Everytime I read one of your posts, it makes me that little bit happier to be a Walsall fan. Talk so much sense compared to some on here.

[WFC_Rob]

I think the best word to describe that performance would be 'patchy'. I'd always take a point on the opening day of the season though - home or away - so was pretty pleased with the overall result.

The first half performance was like a hangover from last season - we had a lot of the ball, but never looked like getting Bradshaw into a threatening position. O'Connor got repeatedly ripped apart by their left winger and it was only a matter of time before a ball across from that side got them a goal. We seemed to gain a bit of belief after that point though and after a bang average shot by Grimes sailed over the bar, it was as if we then realised there was a point or three in it for us if we werea bit braver going forward.

In the second half, that was exactly what happened. The movement was better, we passed the ball quicker, and aside from the goal Bradshaw scored with a really tidy finish, we looked the more likely to win. I don't want to start going over the top with praise after a few minutes of football, but Clifford looked a real livewire in the middle when he came on. Baxendale had played well in the middle up to that point, but Clifford took things up a notch by constantly demanding the ball whenever we were in possession.

I worry that we look weaker at centre half and seem to have replaced Butler with a right back who's no better than what we already had, but we probably had to do things on the cheap to free up funds for some forwards. We won't be tested as much in the air as we were against Pope yet coped fairly well overall, so that's almost a positive to take from the game.

The real positive for me was the movement up front. Westcarr's 16 was no mean feat, but Bradshaw, Grimes and Sawyers all seem to love pulling defenders into areas they don't want to be. That's how we got our goal, and hopefully plenty more will follow. I'd like to see us sign a striker who likes to play with his back to goal as a bit of variety, but that's not to say there's much wrong with what we already have.

[Registered Saddler]

While I wasn't there today, I'd bet a sizeable amount that we played a 4-4-2 diamond formation with Grimes and Bradshaw up front (which is why Grimes wasn't covering the right flank). Then Sawyers in behind and the other three in deeper midfield positions. Benning, as a natural left-back, offered cover on the left but Bax didn't on the right which was why O'Connor (who most Walsall fans seemed to think would be playing central defence - again, what?!?) was exposed at right-back. That's the formation we've played in preseason, apart from the occasional experiment with three central defenders. I'd be highly surprised if we signed Grimes to throw out on the right wing, especially when Smith described him as one of the best finishers he'd ever seen.

By sizeable, how much are we talking, as I was there and we didn't play that formation. Baxendale was in the middle (And given we have Mantom and Clufford is likely to be warming the bench soon) while Grimes was indeed on the right.

Ooh, loads. Like £10 or something. Just going on what happened in preseason, the fact that Grimes isn't a winger, and the number of posts saying how open the right wing was throughout the game. Also, their goal came from our right - on the highlights there's no Grimes to be seen, and he set up our goal from an inside left position. I expect Baxendale was meant to be the one covering the flank from the central three (Benning - Chambers - Baxendale), but Bax never tracks back.

[Cully]

I have to say that I am quite pleased with the performance although I would caution that with a view of the opposition who looked particularly pedestrian at times and predictable with their play. Their left winger Douglas had a very good game, some excellent crosses into the box but overall probably their only real threat that, and our ability to keep giving the ball away cheaply. Credit to Smith Out who played the industrious Grimes mainly in a midfield position alongside Sawyers and Chambers backed up with Benning and the enigma that is Baxendale.
I can't see why Baxendale figures so highly on some peoples praise radar, he doesn't contribute enough, he often takes the easy option passing back to Taylor or Downing leaving them sometimes with little options other than to play it long. He's not as good as Sawyers despite his infuriating habit of ruining a good attacking position by some outrageous flick or dummy for Messi or Iniesta to run onto and score. At least Sawyers has the ability to turn the opposition inside out with his slick control and somewhat fluid movements - you never know what you are going to get from him. Baxendale - bin him, particularly after the introduction of Clifford, he's looks an excellent, skillful player and a battler, just what we need -play him from the start.
Man of the match performance from James Chambers at centre half, still think we need a 'proper' centre half but as Mystic Meg Fan points out he is extremely competent in that role. The most promising performance had to be from Bradshaw, excellent performance, good finish and a real handful all afternoon for the Port Fail defensive mutants - did anyone notice how their keeper resembled Gort, the robot from 'The day the Earth stood still' - build like a brick cack house, he must weigh at least 18 stone, he was like a huge lumbering Smeg fridge with probably the smallest model of head available.
Anyway, good start, some promise, some usual tedious and pointless play/passing and an excellent turnout by the Walsall fans. When I walked into the ground the atmosphere was terrific - I got a bit of that feeling I used to get many years ago supporting Walsall [and I'm not talking about the one between my legs] it's amazing how a good vocal following can lift everybody - great support.
Looking forward to the next match and the inevitable disappointment when we don't win the league or the FA cup.

[WFC_Rob]

While I wasn't there today, I'd bet a sizeable amount that we played a 4-4-2 diamond formation with Grimes and Bradshaw up front (which is why Grimes wasn't covering the right flank). Then Sawyers in behind and the other three in deeper midfield positions. Benning, as a natural left-back, offered cover on the left but Bax didn't on the right which was why O'Connor (who most Walsall fans seemed to think would be playing central defence - again, what?!?) was exposed at right-back. That's the formation we've played in preseason, apart from the occasional experiment with three central defenders. I'd be highly surprised if we signed Grimes to throw out on the right wing, especially when Smith described him as one of the best finishers he'd ever seen.

By sizeable, how much are we talking, as I was there and we didn't play that formation. Baxendale was in the middle (And given we have Mantom and Clufford is likely to be warming the bench soon) while Grimes was indeed on the right.

Ooh, loads. Like £10 or something. Just going on what happened in preseason, the fact that Grimes isn't a winger, and the number of posts saying how open the right wing was throughout the game. Also, their goal came from our right - on the highlights there's no Grimes to be seen, and he set up our goal from an inside left position. I expect Baxendale was meant to be the one covering the flank from the central three (Benning - Chambers - Baxendale), but Bax never tracks back.

Grimes definitely wasn't playing up front and we definitely didn't play 4-4-2. It was basically the same system we were used to seeing last season, but with Baxendale rather than Mantom alongside Chambers, and Grimes, Sawyers and Benning behind Bradshaw.

[MAsaddler]

What ever the formation was it didnt really work, or did it.. Our attacks were good, but that was in spite of the lack of support on the right, with a player in the RM position the're LM wouldnt of looked any good at all. O'Conner didnt do bad he just had little support and was up against a player with loads of space. In the second half this was adressed and Grimes helped close down the opposition better in our own half, but there was still no one on the right side in attack.

On the matter of Sawyers, i see his value and listening to the BBC Stoke team they highly rated him too. One fan phoned in, said sawyers was the man of the match and how he wished Vale had him. He is a talent, if he was abit more selfish in the box he would make an immense stiker. Another thing they mentioned on BBC Stoke is how our midfield destroyed them, whole game apparently (not so sure about whole game) and we didnt even have a right winger.

Who remembers the bit of skill running at defence from Grimes in the box. Swaped it from left to right turned two players, was sexual, unlucky with the finish which was saved for a corner.

[pumajaguar]

Grimes definitely wasn't playing up front and we definitely didn't play 4-4-2. It was basically the same system we were used to seeing last season, but with Baxendale rather than Mantom alongside Chambers, and Grimes, Sawyers and Benning behind Bradshaw.

Agreed, system looked the same to me.

Overall I feel a lot more positive now than I did going into the game. First half was just the end of last season continuing, lots of the ball, but no real threat and we conceded a sloppy goal.

Second half was far better however, we actually attacked with energy and urgency and probably should have won it. Grimes, Bradshaw and Clifford all looked like useful additions.

Sawyers is such a frustrating player to watch, but he has the potential. I remember lots of people thinking the same about Patterson, so hopefully it will all click into place soon for Sawyers the same way it did for Pato in his last few months here.

As for Baxendale I don't think central midfield suits him but neither does the wing. I really like the guy and you can't fault his attitude, but all his best moments have come in the number 10 role and with Sawyers blocking his way will he ever get to play there?

Support was excellent, lets try and get the same level of noise back at the Bescot!

[belgiansaddler]

Pretty pleased overall after a disappointing first half that reminded me of most frustrating parts of last season ie. plenty of possession but doing nothing with it. The Vale goal was an absolute defensive shocker :shock:

2nd half was much better, passing with purpose and we looked threatening and dominated for the majority of the half. We looked like we would go on and win it. Thought Sawyers had a mare but his quality is obvious, though his "terrible decision making" (copyright Neil R.) will no doubt see some of our fans slate him the same as they did with Patterson in the early days. Hopefully was just a bad day at office for Sawyers and even though he had a mare he was still effective at times including his part in the goal. On his day he will rip teams to pieces in this division and still think at times he needs more movement from those around him and that will come the more the team play together.

Pretty impressive debuts from Bradshaw and Grimes. Clifford looks absolute class, the way he demands and moves the ball so quickly is very impressive. On the basis of yesterday and assuming he has got attitude to want to get back to higher level I would offer him a 10 year contract with an option for another 10 :D This kid could earn us (lol) a serious wad of cash, he looks a real gem.

Overall happy after first day. I would have taken a point beforehand but actually ended up a bit disappointed we didn't get all 3, lost of positives to build on.

Man of the match without a shadow of a doubt was young Jimmy Cass, the way he piled into the Vale fans on the car park with both arms swinging was pure class. At 3 years old he is definitely one for the future :lol:

[latviancheese]

Baxendale played well in central midfield, had to go off as he was shagged.

[WFC_Rob]

I'm not quite sure how Sawyers manage to divide opinion so dramatically. I thought he was good yesterday - as he usually is. The weakness in his game is his tendency to play one pass too many rather than have a shot from the edge of the box. If he can get that right, we'll score a lot more goals.

[Andy_Petterson]

While I wasn't there today, I'd bet a sizeable amount that we played a 4-4-2 diamond formation with Grimes and Bradshaw up front (which is why Grimes wasn't covering the right flank). Then Sawyers in behind and the other three in deeper midfield positions. Benning, as a natural left-back, offered cover on the left but Bax didn't on the right which was why O'Connor (who most Walsall fans seemed to think would be playing central defence - again, what?!?) was exposed at right-back. That's the formation we've played in preseason, apart from the occasional experiment with three central defenders. I'd be highly surprised if we signed Grimes to throw out on the right wing, especially when Smith described him as one of the best finishers he'd ever seen.

By sizeable, how much are we talking, as I was there and we didn't play that formation. Baxendale was in the middle (And given we have Mantom and Clufford is likely to be warming the bench soon) while Grimes was indeed on the right.

Ooh, loads. Like £10 or something. Just going on what happened in preseason, the fact that Grimes isn't a winger, and the number of posts saying how open the right wing was throughout the game. Also, their goal came from our right - on the highlights there's no Grimes to be seen, and he set up our goal from an inside left position. I expect Baxendale was meant to be the one covering the flank from the central three (Benning - Chambers - Baxendale), but Bax never tracks back.

Grimes definitely wasn't playing up front and we definitely didn't play 4-4-2. It was basically the same system we were used to seeing last season, but with Baxendale rather than Mantom alongside Chambers, and Grimes, Sawyers and Benning behind Bradshaw.

It's a bit misleading to say Grimes played on the right. He did for parts of the game, but he did drift into the centre for parts too. You can see this on the goal we scored.

Overall, glass half full for me. New signings all look promising and like how we worked the ball in the second half to find better openings (despite the impatience of some our fans). On the downside the balance of the side doesn't look quite right. To be honest I always feared that Port Vale would get a second, although we were the better side.

Superb bit of control from Benning after a long pass in the 2nd half. Great atmosphere too.

[Andy_Petterson]

I'm not quite sure how Sawyers manage to divide opinion so dramatically. I thought he was good yesterday - as he usually is. The weakness in his game is his tendency to play one pass too many rather than have a shot from the edge of the box. If he can get that right, we'll score a lot more goals.

I like Sawyers, but he can be a bit casual at times. Couple of times in the 2nd half he gave the ball away cheaply "looking for messi or Iniesta" as Cully would say.

[Andy_Petterson]

SoccerHQ, there is also Cook.

Also, Deano said that any deal between Manset and the club is now 'very unlikely'.
Well done Deano, we had said you would do this in a kind of sarcastic/believable manor. And what do you do, go and prove what we said.

What?

Why would taking a gamble on an injury prone Manset who has a history of doing well in pre-season and then disappearing in the league, who has only made like 50 appearances in a few years who wants a 2 year deal from us... be a good thing? Props to Smith for not being weak and end up giving in to his demands, because if he did sign a 2 year, end up getting injured or not being good then Smith would get stick for that too. Damned if he does damned if he doesn't.

You are of course right Jonny Owen. Deano is spot on here.

Can't believe the number of fans who think the best course of action is to throw money at players. Better to bring through youth, like Bakayoko.

[WFC_Rob]

It's a bit misleading to say Grimes played on the right. He did for parts of the game, but he did drift into the centre for parts too. You can see this on the goal we scored.

I know - that's why I didn't say he played on the right. :wink:

[Andy_Petterson]

It's a bit misleading to say Grimes played on the right. He did for parts of the game, but he did drift into the centre for parts too. You can see this on the goal we scored.

I know - that's why I didn't say he played on the right. :wink:

Yeah, sorry WFC_Rob, my response was more to ToeJoe Jnr

[SaddlerCrewe]

For any of you who wants to waste an hour of your life on a wet Sunday, Radio Stoke's after match phone in, Praise and Grumble is online
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p023xpqg

Helps to move the cursor thingy, to avoid the whinging Crewe fans (Which was most of the first nine minutes)

Regarding Romaine Sawyers - I rate this player highly, he has undoubted skill and vision, although he is frustrating at times.
Please don't forget that he is still very much learning his trade, he's only had a shade over 30 starts since he joined us.
Some of the fans near me yesterday were getting on his back, which is disappointing.

[JJunior9]

In terms of traditional positions, the 'number 10' role is probably second only to the 'number 9' position in terms of expense and demand (for every club in the football league) and we are blessed to have both Sawyers and Baxendale (tied up on reasonably long contracts). As Smith has indicated, our previous number 10 (Westcarr) was released for this very reason. In terms of number 9s, I think Grimes and Bradshaw are both decent too. Ironically, the 'number 7' position we are crying out for is probably Jordan Cook (a big miss until his recovery from injury).

As the size of the squad and resources available indicates, these five players can all inter-change but there is no reason why Baxendale can't be an impact sub for Sawyers if Romaine is fit / on form / not suspended or fatigued.

Regarding Manset, he seems like a bit of a risk to me (see his pictures on Twitter) and I applaud Walsall's stance.

Personally, I would prefer McAlinden to come in to Manset since while I appreciate that a 'Plan B' sounds good, the Ngoo option went horribly wrong last season and if we are to persist with the patient build up with two or three diminutive, quick, mobile strikers (Cook, Grimes or Bradshaw could all play the one-up-top position), a big target-man is unlikely to stay onside! After all, if you have a big lump like Tom Pope (who admittedly always scores against us!), we have to play a more 'pub-team' style (like Vale) which no one wants, surely...

If we can keep hold of Mantom and O'Donnell in the transfer window, I think McAlinden would be enough in terms of squad strengthening at this stage in the season.

[funk_hits_the_fan]

For any of you who wants to waste an hour of your life on a wet Sunday, Radio Stoke's after match phone in, Praise and Grumble is online
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p023xpqg

Helps to move the cursor thingy, to avoid the whinging Crewe fans (Which was most of the first nine minutes)

Regarding Romaine Sawyers - I rate this player highly, he has undoubted skill and vision, although he is frustrating at times.
Please don't forget that he is still very much learning his trade, he's only had a shade over 30 starts since he joined us.
Some of the fans near me yesterday were getting on his back, which is disappointing.

During the game their expert analyst, some former Vale player who sounded about 60, said Sawyers was the difference between the sides & went completely unchecked in midfield. So to see some of the reports on here is surprising.

I always listen to Radio Sjoke when we play one of the 3 around that area, traditionally we do quite well and none of them like us. Because I was at both games I actually recorded coverage of our play-off victory on cassette (remember those) after the Sjokies gave it the biggun....it may have been a bit sad but it provided rich entertainment all through the summer....other than watching repeats of the Play Off Final on the box.

[JonnyOwen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2wrxaHuiA8

[Registered Saddler]

I will defer to m'learned friends' opinions on the Grimes right-side debate. What I would say is that I expect Benning played much more on the left flank than Grimes did on the right, and that we clearly had no defensive cover on the right, whoever was meant to be out there. Last season, with the 4-2-3-1, Hemmings, Lalkovic or Brandy were/should always have been available to support the full-back. This new lopsided formation will not work in the long run.

[JonnyOwen]

Grimes and Sawyers drifted between the centre forward and right midfield role, neither wanted to track back, but Grimes was on the right. Benning was a winger on the left, and on the right was Grimes who played really quite infield, and drifted into the centre during attacks. We only had width on the left.

[latviancheese]

Sawyers was good yesterday in patches, in the patches he wasn't he was absolutely atrocious. It wasn't him laying one pass to many, he was passing to thin air, flicking it into defenders shins etc.

Its no coincidence we scored and built momentum when he kept it simple. The lad is unplayable when he is on it because no one ever knocks him off the ball, so its even more annoying when he simply gives them the ball back.

Its just irritating he seems to be immune from criticism while Baxendale, who had one of his best games yesterday for a long time, is cack, and we should bin him, apparently. :?

[latviancheese]

Also, wasn't it nice to actually mix it up and ping a few balls in the box, you can tell we had two strikers on the pitch even if one was playing right.

[bobbyb]

Cannot believe some people on here, Ashley Grimes had a really good debut yesterday.

He looked a cut above, great vision and i think he will be a great asset to us as the season progresses.

Thought the support was good, great atmosphere.

Overall i think it was a decent performance and looking forward to a good season.

Just wish we could have given Mancet the two year deal, think he could have been really good for us.

Never mind onwards and hopefully upwards.

[Cully]

Sawyers was good yesterday in patches, in the patches he wasn't he was absolutely atrocious. It wasn't him laying one pass to many, he was passing to thin air, flicking it into defenders shins etc.

Its no coincidence we scored and built momentum when he kept it simple. The lad is unplayable when he is on it because no one ever knocks him off the ball, so its even more annoying when he simply gives them the ball back.

Its just irritating he seems to be immune from criticism while Baxendale, who had one of his best games yesterday for a long time, is cack, and we should bin him, apparently. :?

All about opinions ay it. Wandering about the pitch a bit with the occasional hop and a skip, making mock attempts to win the ball in the air, never winning a tackle and passing the ball 5 yards to Downing doesn't turn me on or make him an effective player. I'm not sure what role Smith Out thinks he should fulfil and my suggestion of water boy is unlikely to be adopted.
Sawyers has been roundly criticised by one and all including some idiots who think that any black skinned footballers are 'lazy'. However, and luckily for them, they will never realise how wrong they are due to the lack of brain cells.
I have been wrong in the past about players, I distinctly remember thinking that Taundry would have a decent footballing career and that Paul Merson would never wear flip flops at a match he was in charge of. Oh well I'll get over it.
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