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Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Reports and reaction from the 2013-2014 season as Walsall finished 13th in League 1
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Sadders
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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:29 pm

Walsall FC - 13/14 - Promised but didn't achieve.

Loads of the ball, but the worst end product/worst final third in the entire football league. We miss Westcarr, but he ain't much good either.

The defence haven't suddenly turned to cack, but if you don't score you always run the risk of conceding a goal.

Taylor was laughable for the pen and why didn't Butler just launch it?

Just desperately poor upfront.

The team hasn't dropped it's standards so much, it's that teams have sussed out that we can't attack if you defend deep and smother our runners.

Butler and Taylor are off in the summer, so it'l be a good chunk of the defence AND 3 proper centre forwards to replace in the summer, never mind Brandy/Milan.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:00 pm

Yet again another pathetic result and pathetic performance. I am now convinced Dean Smith has got to go. He has had a fair crack and has resorted us to a bunch of namby pamby sideways passing non entity with no end product.

Both him and his disloyal sidekick O'Kelly must go tonight, preferably before I hear another excuse of referee, injuries, pitch, fans, other team has better budget, weather, economy, world affairs etc etc. Thanks for trying Dean, but time to go!


Someone needs to make an appointment with Dr Perspective at the Reality Clinic.

Tiny budget, tiny crowd, and the loss of three main attacking players at the start of the season, yet still we have produced some of the best football I have ever seen from a Walsall team and had a flirtation with the play-offs. In the end a disappointing season, but far from a disaster.

I think the line-up was wrong today. Brandy was nominally the striker, but he naturally drops deep to pick up the ball, which meant he was occupying the space where Sawyers likes to operate. This forced Sawyers deeper and sometimes wider where he is less effective. Ngoo, though he tried as hard as anyone, isn't mobile enough to play in our system and I don't really know what he was supposed to be doing in the first half. If he had to play, he should have been front and centre, with Brandy out wide.

Some pretty fourth-rate acting from Bristol. They were like new-born bandy-legged calves, barely able to stagger a few yards without crumpling to the ground in a heap the poor dears. Abysmal team.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:04 pm

today confirmed to myself that I made the correct decision not renewing my season ticket
and I don't think my 300 odd quid loss is going to make all the difference to the budget
its games like today that when you have a season ticket you feel you have to go when all I wanted to do was go home

I know weve done well up to the business end of the season with the budget but I aint getting any younger and that's another season weve thrown away a chance of some much needed celebration down the club.

if the club cant be bothered trying to sort it out then I cant be bothered tailoring my Saturdays around watching what I would say next season would be relegation football.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:11 pm

Sam Mantom beating himself up on Twitter, if you have twitter go and send him a positive tweet, since he has been great this season and any encouragement to the players helps them. This is a family club, so we treat the players like they are family and pick them up when they are down.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:12 pm

SMITH HAS GOT TO GO

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Mugs......

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:18 pm

Some random observations and thoughts on todays game.

I'm not sure we were playing Bristol City or Bristol Old Vic this afternoon. The amount of play acting was embarrassing. The two that got right up my nose was Elliot and Paterson. Diving and trying to get players sent off and how Paterson wasn't booked for dissent I'll never know. He gave the linesman nearly a whole minute of verbals when a decision went against him and defied the referee when not retreating 10 yards for a free kick. Not a whiff of a yellow.

Ngoo had a good game again and was a real handful. He played the Westcarr role exactly like er...Westcarr. Even to the
point of standing still when he realeased the ball. I can't tell if is getting boo'ed when he goes off or people are going Ngooooooo!? If it is boos then they are barclays.

I think McQuilkin should start every game now and give him a chance to earn a contract. He has done nothing wrong when he comes on and is prepared to have a shot, unlike everyone else. No point playing Baxendale as he will still be here next season regardless.

Bakayoko hasn't done anything wrong but he hasn't set the team alight with his presence either. Very, very early days yet but Smith needs to be careful if he is expecting him to be a match winner. It won't take long for the boo boys to start having ago and his confidence getting shot. When Westcarr gets back, put him back in the reserves until next season.

Mantom has lost his mojo. Poor in midfield and a terible penalty miss. I was expecting him to blast it and he should have. Hasn't been the same since coming back from his enforced lay-off. We miss him.

Last word. Taylor did give away the penalty. We knew it, he knew it and the ref knew it. Sorry Dean, can't blame the ref for this one.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:23 pm

MPSADDLER wrote:Yet again another pathetic result and pathetic performance. I am now convinced Dean Smith has got to go. He has had a fair crack and has resorted us to a bunch of namby pamby sideways passing non entity with no end product.

Both him and his disloyal sidekick O'Kelly must go tonight, preferably before I hear another excuse of referee, injuries, pitch, fans, other team has better budget, weather, economy, world affairs etc etc. Thanks for trying Dean, but time to go!


Silliest post for months. :lol:

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:26 pm

I think the people calling for Smith to go are probably the same people who thought Graydon had taken us as far as he could.... Some people have been playing too many computer games...

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:40 pm

DonningtonSaddler wrote:
MPSADDLER wrote:Yet again another pathetic result and pathetic performance. I am now convinced Dean Smith has got to go. He has had a fair crack and has resorted us to a bunch of namby pamby sideways passing non entity with no end product.

Both him and his disloyal sidekick O'Kelly must go tonight, preferably before I hear another excuse of referee, injuries, pitch, fans, other team has better budget, weather, economy, world affairs etc etc. Thanks for trying Dean, but time to go!


Silliest post for months. :lol:



Bang on.

Posts like that are exactly everything wrong with the modern football fan these days.

Just deluded stupidity. It's that kind of bullshine that filters into the dressing room and starts affecting attitudes - do you want us to look like winning games or?

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:49 pm

Right from the minute the players emerged from the tunnel, the afternoon had the feeling of one with no real spark. We had nothing to play for, were without our best striker, and both of those things were so, so evident throughout.

I actually thought we played reasonably well and moved the ball around to good effect until the final 10 minutes or so. That's not to say we ever really looked like getting much from the game though. Ngoo played really well, but was isolated too often. Whoever we play up front, the main problem is that none of our midfielders/wide midfielders want to make runs ahead of the striker. As a result, it didn't matter how well Ngoo did at holding the ball up, because there was no-one to aim at in the box. Playing one up front is fine when you have others just behind who are keen to break forward, but we don't.

Bristol City's theatrics and general gamesmanship have been rightly slated already so there's not a great deal to add. What I would say though is that they were very, very poor and wouldn't have scored even if we'd played til now - but for the blatant penalty, that is.

We lack a spark and have done for a good couple of months. I haven't heard Smith's post-match, but if he has blamed the ref yet again, that's particularly worrying. We seem to have reached a point where no-one - management team or players - take responsibility for our results and performances, which is why we've ended up with nothing to play for for the last five games of the season. I'm fully behind the job Smith's doing in general, so let's see how the summer pans out.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:18 pm

Frustrating!

Smith is talking nonsense, it was a penalty every day of the week.

What has upset me most is Dean's arrogance towards the striker situation. I can't be arsed to go over old ground. He got it wrong - simple.

Frankly, disappointed.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:30 pm

Toothless, they were there for the taking. If we hadn't given them a penalty we would have drawn, because they were never going to score. To think they were a Championship side last season!

It was definitely a penalty, as soon as Taylor made the tackle I put my coat over my head, didn't even wait for the ref to give it.

It didn't matter who played up front, they all played the same way which makes me sure that our play is coached. Up to front man, back to midfield man, up to front man, back to midfield man, up to front man, back to midfield man, up to front man, back to midfield man, up to front man, back to midfield man, up to front man, back to midfield man, up to front man, back to midfield man, up to front man, back to midfield man, up to front man, back to midfield man, up to front man, back to midfield man, up to front man....

So fudge easy to defend against. Makes you want to scream - "THAT WHITE THING WITH THE fudge NET IS A GOAL, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO TRY AND fudge SCORE!!!!!"

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:31 pm

Sadders wrote:
DonningtonSaddler wrote:
MPSADDLER wrote:Yet again another pathetic result and pathetic performance. I am now convinced Dean Smith has got to go. He has had a fair crack and has resorted us to a bunch of namby pamby sideways passing non entity with no end product.

Both him and his disloyal sidekick O'Kelly must go tonight, preferably before I hear another excuse of referee, injuries, pitch, fans, other team has better budget, weather, economy, world affairs etc etc. Thanks for trying Dean, but time to go!


Silliest post for months. :lol:



Bang on.

Posts like that are exactly everything wrong with the modern football fan these days.

Just deluded stupidity. It's that kind of bullshine that filters into the dressing room and starts affecting attitudes - do you want us to look like winning games or?


Some of our fans are borderline retarded and you're right it is what is spoiling football.

As for the game well it summed up the problems we've had all season. Ngoo had one of his better games but was still awful - so slow it is painful to watch, there's also not enough cutting edge to create decent chances and personally, I think we look physically weak compared to most teams. With the financial constraints the club operates under, the season is by no means a disaster but lessons need to be learned going forward by players and staff (including the manager). I actually think the team needs leadership too - not one of them is a vocal influence, including Butler to be honest. There have been so many times in games when the young players have needed instruction but it never comes.

Oh and as for Bristol City... I hope none of their delicate flowers were hurt by the nothing challenges that caused them to repeatedly fling themselves, writhing to the floor.
:roll: (It was a stone wall peno for them though).

I'd also go with Bakayoko now - fudge it, he looks ok and a few games will do him good.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:37 pm

Andrew Hughes wrote:
Yet again another pathetic result and pathetic performance. I am now convinced Dean Smith has got to go. He has had a fair crack and has resorted us to a bunch of namby pamby sideways passing non entity with no end product.

Both him and his disloyal sidekick O'Kelly must go tonight, preferably before I hear another excuse of referee, injuries, pitch, fans, other team has better budget, weather, economy, world affairs etc etc. Thanks for trying Dean, but time to go!


Someone needs to make an appointment with Dr Perspective at the Reality Clinic.

Tiny budget, tiny crowd, and the loss of three main attacking players at the start of the season, yet still we have produced some of the best football I have ever seen from a Walsall team and had a flirtation with the play-offs. In the end a disappointing season, but far from a disaster.

I think the line-up was wrong today. Brandy was nominally the striker, but he naturally drops deep to pick up the ball, which meant he was occupying the space where Sawyers likes to operate. This forced Sawyers deeper and sometimes wider where he is less effective. Ngoo, though he tried as hard as anyone, isn't mobile enough to play in our system and I don't really know what he was supposed to be doing in the first half. If he had to play, he should have been front and centre, with Brandy out wide.

Some pretty fourth-rate acting from Bristol. They were like new-born bandy-legged calves, barely able to stagger a few yards without crumpling to the ground in a heap the poor dears. Abysmal team.


Don't disagree with your overall point, I do disagree with the bold statement though. The football this season in general hasn't been good at all. It's been very, very dull and boring, sideways, backwards, low tempo rubbish. There has been the odd game here and there we have turned it on, but in the main we don't look a threatening side at all. 45 goals says it all. Football without an end product, is not good football which ever way you look at it.

I agree we have done reasonably well, given the overall circumstances, but it was still a missed opportunity, they don't come round that often.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:41 pm

JonnyOwen wrote:Sam Mantom beating himself up on Twitter, if you have twitter go and send him a positive tweet, since he has been great this season and any encouragement to the players helps them. This is a family club, so we treat the players like they are family and pick them up when they are down.


Great call. Had already done that before you said. There were several players who didn't perform today, Sawyers being the most notable.

I am a fan of Smith's but his moaning about referees is getting a bit tiresome now.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:49 pm

Andrew Hughes, is this your 4th season watching Walsall?

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:52 pm

It was a dead rubber - and hopefully the last one where we see this nonsense.
I'd be really angry if I gave a toss, which is worrying in itself.

mosaddler wrote:Throw in the kids till the end of the season in preparation for 2014/15


Pedagogue wrote:Ngoo had probably his best game for us but he was still N(o) goo(d). Why are we giving valuable first-team experience to a young player from a Premier League club instead of one of our own - who is also a better player, anyway?

Let's use the remaining matches to give game time to our own young professionals such as Ben George, Reece Flanagan, Liam Kinsella, Kieron Morris, etc. Unfortunately, Matt Preston got injured while playing on loan at Barwell.


Dead right!
No point looking at starting Ngoo anymore.
I'm sure he's a nice lad and loves his mother etc, but we need to sort our club above his meandering career.

Let's blood some of these youngsters now. You can't play them all in the same match.
But where players might be off, we need to look at young players in those positions.

We could give ourselves a real headstart for next season if Deano would see sense and stop whinging on about refs for five seconds.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:58 pm

Having watched English football for 30+ years or so I've seen more than enough 'direct' play to last me a lifetime. Watching an English team, and better yet my team, play a style based around retaining possession is a pleasant change.

It makes sense tactically to keep the ball. If your opponents haven't got the ball, they can't score. In theory, we keep the ball, zip it around the pitch, wait until the opposition get tired or leave too much space in one area, then exploit it.

The problem today, and too often this season, is not an overdose of passing or that the passes are sometimes sideways or backwards. The problem is that the tempo is too slow, so the opposition have time to organise themselves, we don't move enough off the ball, so we are easy to mark, and we don't press hard enough when we haven't got the ball to keep them penned in their half. Sort those things out, carry on with the passing game and it's play-offs at least next year. Possibly.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:00 pm

Andrew Hughes, is this your 4th season watching Walsall?


My first Walsall game was 1983.

I didn't say our football has been the most effective I have ever seen from a Walsall team, just the best to watch. Although not today, obviously.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:27 pm

Andrew Hughes wrote:Having watched English football for 30+ years or so I've seen more than enough 'direct' play to last me a lifetime. Watching an English team, and better yet my team, play a style based around retaining possession is a pleasant change.

It makes sense tactically to keep the ball. If your opponents haven't got the ball, they can't score. In theory, we keep the ball, zip it around the pitch, wait until the opposition get tired or leave too much space in one area, then exploit it.

The problem today, and too often this season, is not an overdose of passing or that the passes are sometimes sideways or backwards. The problem is that the tempo is too slow, so the opposition have time to organise themselves, we don't move enough off the ball, so we are easy to mark, and we don't press hard enough when we haven't got the ball to keep them penned in their half. Sort those things out, carry on with the passing game and it's play-offs at least next year. Possibly.

There was a moment today when Chambers won the ball in the middle, the Bristol defence were pushed up and it was a glorious opportunity for a Walsall striker to make a run for a ball over the top. But Brandy dropped back for a ball to feet and the chance was gone because Bristol's defence had chance to re-organise. Tempo is immaterial, it doesn't matter how quickly we make the run or pass, because we always do the same thing. We are utterly one dimensional in attack. So easy to defend against.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:37 pm

Playing at a higher tempo means we have a better chance of opening up a team. Individual players still have to spot the opportunities, which Brandy didn't on that occasion.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:40 pm

Andrew Hughes wrote:Playing at a higher tempo means we have a better chance of opening up a team. Individual players still have to spot the opportunities, which Brandy didn't on that occasion.

I don't think it's that though. All of our strikers play exactly the same way which leads me to believe that it is coached. Always come short to receive the ball to feet and then return to sender. Doesn't matter how quickly we do it. Defender can have a cigar on.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:45 pm

Who knows, you may be right, I don't know what goes on in training - maybe I should go along Monday and find out.

I would have thought the idea would be to do that as a rule, that is, if there is no opening the forward should give the ball back to the midfielder, but if there is an opening, then surely they are free to exploit it. I'd be surprised if Smith is telling them to retain possession even to the extent of not trying to exploit goalscoring opportunities.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:55 pm

Andrew Hughes wrote:Who knows, you may be right, I don't know what goes on in training - maybe I should go along Monday and find out.

I would have thought the idea would be to do that as a rule, that is, if there is no opening the forward should give the ball back to the midfielder, but if there is an opening, then surely they are free to exploit it. I'd be surprised if Smith is telling them to retain possession even to the extent of not trying to exploit goalscoring opportunities.

They aren't goal scoring opportunities (they aren't even close to being goal scoring opportunities) they are patterns of play.

Maybe it is the natural inclination of all our attacking players to play that way. Who knows?!
Last edited by aaaae on Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:55 pm

Walsall_Casual wrote:Frustrating!

Smith is talking nonsense, it was a penalty every day of the week.

What has upset me most is Dean's arrogance towards the striker situation. I can't be Arsenal to go over old ground. He got it wrong - simple.

Frankly, disappointed.



Disagree, Smith said on late kick off last week that he is going to spend the summer searching long and hard for something more potent up top.

He also said in his WM interview that it was 'a similar story again at home, with loads of the ball and naff all up top' in other words.

He knows what's missing, he's the professional here - he probably has a better idea on how to fix it tactically than we do, but needs the summer to sign players that can execute it. It's hard to understand as a fan sometimes, that players who represent us are just names on a shirt, but it's Smith who knows their personalities, what they do and don't respond to. So if he isn't coming out and questioning them in the press, he feels it's best for the dressing room and fair play to him for it.

Just like working in a company, if you want to get to the top you do some ass-kissing. In football, you swallow the managerial PR book if you want to go quietly about your job - as he does.

Just on a last note - Bristol City were atrocious. All those players on huge wages with talent absolutely wasted by that bafoon Coterill and his ancient tactics.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:58 pm

Anyone else think we were lucky not to be down to 10 men when Ngoo had his hissy fit?

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:01 pm

They aren't goal scoring opportunities (they aren't even close to being goal scoring opportunities) they are patterns of play.


It sounded like the situation that you described, where there was space behind the Bristol defence, was a potential goalscoring opportunity, which Brandy could and should have exploited. If he didn't spot it, then I think that is down to the individual, not the team style. They aren't robots programmed only to pass - there's no reason why a team that bases its tactics on retaining possession can't sometimes play a quick ball over the top when the defence are wrongfooted and there's space behind them for a player of Brandy's pace to run onto.

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:06 pm

Andrew Hughes wrote:
They aren't goal scoring opportunities (they aren't even close to being goal scoring opportunities) they are patterns of play.


It sounded like the situation that you described, where there was space behind the Bristol defence, was a potential goalscoring opportunity, which Brandy could and should have exploited. If he didn't spot it, then I think that is down to the individual, not the team style. They aren't robots programmed only to pass - there's no reason why a team that bases its tactics on retaining possession can't sometimes play a quick ball over the top when the defence are wrongfooted and there's space behind them for a player of Brandy's pace to run onto.

You would think...

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:07 pm

Anyone else think we were lucky not to be down to 10 men when Ngoo had his hissy fit?


Was that the incident when he was booked?

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Re: Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:14 pm

Andrew Hughes wrote:
Anyone else think we were lucky not to be down to 10 men when Ngoo had his hissy fit?

Was that the incident when he was booked?

Indeed, he got up and pushed the Brizzle player to the ground.

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