Bristol City (H) League One 12 Apr, 3.07pm

[DYSaddler]

Pathetic performance and pathetic excuse of a penalty. Unfortunately, most the team seem to be in Cancun already or wherever they plan on having their summer sessions. Thought Bristol City were pretty poor today, not as bad as us though. If we were anywhere near on it today it would have been a comfortable 3 points. Where Smith gets his continuous post match drivel from is beyond me, "a really good performance" I'm sorry, i am a big DS fan but he must have been watching a different game to me. Positives I thought was the introduction of Bakayoko - looks strong and powerful with a yard of pace and if given time could have a very bright future and be valuable for us in seasons to come. McQuilkin's short cameo was effective with him looking to get a shot off when in a decent position - take note other attacking players. Brandy looked dangerous at times, will be a big miss next season if he doesn't return. I'd like to see some of our young pro's given opportunities now, especially the likes of Baka, Preston, George, Morris and even Kinsella who has recently signed his first pro contract. Overall, another poor home performance and the same old story - a lack of cutting edge in the final third. UTS

[We-ARE-Walsall]

Andrew Hughes, is this your 4th season watching Walsall?

My first Walsall game was 1983.

I didn't say our football has been the most effective I have ever seen from a Walsall team, just the best to watch. Although not today, obviously.

You started going around the same time as me. Can you honestly tell me what you are watching is better than the likes of Shakespere, Preece, Childs etc etc. I disagree, especially at home, we used to batter teams.

I don't think we think that differently, I have no real problem with passing the football, but it has to have a purpose. Personally although it could be direct at times, I found Graydon' style entertaining, we were set up to be solid, but the way we countered teams at pace was very good to watch. I find this season, more than last very dull and boring football, there is no point in having the ball if you aren't going to penetrate.

[tinned]

Are people still buying this sexy football cack? Scoring goals is sexier than constant, pointless passing.

If Smith is blaming a ref again he needs to have a word with himself.

[clawtheolder]

I thought the ref had a good game today,he could easily have sent off Nogood and it was def a penalty.

[Ghostofwalsallpast]

...and yet has challenged for the playoffs two years in a row.

I wouldn't say we've "challenged"...more like flattered to deceive for the last two years. We're now 11pts adrift of Peterborough - hardly call us a challenge

[kshammer]

Anyone else think we were lucky not to be down to 10 men when Ngoo had his hissy fit?

I did.

...and yet has challenged for the playoffs two years in a row.

I wouldn't say we've "challenged"...more like flattered to deceive for the last two years. We're now 11pts adrift of Peterborough - hardly call us a challenge

Fair point but do we honestly expect to go from struggling one year, to near play offs the next and then on to play offs in consecutive seasons. I doesn't always work like that.

[Guest]

No comment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XSUYLPMlVY

[tipton saddler]

andy taylor was on twitter last night saying he's not sure why ref gave pen as he got a touch on the ball. 2 of the coaching staff 100% agreeing with taylor after seeing a replay from the tile choice stand. if deano has seen that, and I'm sure he will have, that may be why he's blaming the ref...again.

[Andrew Hughes]

Can you honestly tell me what you are watching is better than the likes of Shakespere, Preece, Childs etc etc. I disagree, especially at home, we used to batter teams.

When we've played at our best this season, which hasn't been often enough, yes, it is the best football I've seen. Not the most exciting, but the best football. My memories of the 1980s team aren't clear enough to judge honestly.

[Pedagogue]

It really irks me to see the excuse "... but I played the ball" being used. That is irrelevant. It what you do to the opponent that matters. Physical contact with an opponent BEFORE playing the ball is ALWAYS a foul, technically speaking, whereas such contact AFTER playing the ball MAY STILL be a foul. It depends upon the nature of the challenge and how clumsy/dangerous/intentional the referee decides that it is. In short, it is perfectly possible to both play the ball AND foul an opponent.

I wish that players, managers and tv pundits would learn this.

[mister marmite]

Looking at the season as a whole - with the context of budgets, crowd sizes, who we lost, who we brought in etc etc - Only a fool would be disappointed. Yes, every now and again a Graydon-like side, Yeovil, Scunthorpe etc etc like side will defy the odds and gate crash the party - but its rare.

This game (and several others the last few weeks) we've lacked the punch to kill off a game. Then again, what is new. Yesterday was so frustrating to watch. Nothing wrong with going sideways, if - eventually there is a planned outcome. Unfortunately for us, we don't have anyone capable of executing the plan. I don't know if it was our plan yesterday but Bax, Sawyers, Ngoo, Brandy - didn't play with any shape or recognisable pattern. It may well have been to cause City problems, but it appeared to just leave Mantom and Chambers in a quick sand midfield looking lost.

I think the pivitol moment of this season was the Notts County game and the closing of the Loan window. Can't blame Ngoo, didn't hear many people complaining when he arrived. He hasn't worked out. A dynamic striker able to lift the crowd and a game may well have kept us on the coat tails of P'bro. I'm sure Smith and O'Kelly realise that.

Smith and RO'k only continue to take us forward on the pitch. Much more attractive prospect to future players and youngsters than we were when he first took over. Pointless doubting him.

[aaaae]

It really irks me to see the excuse "... but I played the ball" being used. That is irrelevant. It what you do to the opponent that matters. Physical contact with an opponent BEFORE playing the ball is ALWAYS a foul, technically speaking, whereas such contact AFTER playing the ball MAY STILL be a foul. It depends upon the nature of the challenge and how clumsy/dangerous/intentional the referee decides that it is. In short, it is perfectly possible to both play the ball AND foul an opponent.

I wish that players, managers and tv pundits would learn this.

Exactly. I thought the ref had a good game too.

Crap defending full stop. Taylor had a chance from the initial through ball to clear it, then Butler had chance to clear it, then the Bristol City player was going away from goal on the corner of the box, no danger at all, before Taylor had a wild swing at him. Summed up our performance.

[Ghostofwalsallpast]

Anyone else think we were lucky not to be down to 10 men when Ngoo had his hissy fit?

I did.

...and yet has challenged for the playoffs two years in a row.

I wouldn't say we've "challenged"...more like flattered to deceive for the last two years. We're now 11pts adrift of Peterborough - hardly call us a challenge

Fair point but do we honestly expect to go from struggling one year, to near play offs the next and then on to play offs in consecutive seasons. I doesn't always work like that.

No, I genuinely expect us to fall backwards next season (hopefully not too far).

[PT]

Looking at the season as a whole - with the context of budgets, crowd sizes, who we lost, who we brought in etc etc - Only a fool would be disappointed. Yes, every now and again a Graydon-like side, Yeovil, Scunthorpe etc etc like side will defy the odds and gate crash the party - but its rare.

This game (and several others the last few weeks) we've lacked the punch to kill off a game. Then again, what is new. Yesterday was so frustrating to watch. Nothing wrong with going sideways, if - eventually there is a planned outcome. Unfortunately for us, we don't have anyone capable of executing the plan. I don't know if it was our plan yesterday but Bax, Sawyers, Ngoo, Brandy - didn't play with any shape or recognisable pattern. It may well have been to cause City problems, but it appeared to just leave Mantom and Chambers in a quick sand midfield looking lost.

I think the pivitol moment of this season was the Notts County game and the closing of the Loan window. Can't blame Ngoo, didn't hear many people complaining when he arrived. He hasn't worked out. A dynamic striker able to lift the crowd and a game may well have kept us on the coat tails of P'bro. I'm sure Smith and O'Kelly realise that.

Smith and RO'k only continue to take us forward on the pitch. Much more attractive prospect to future players and youngsters than we were when he first took over. Pointless doubting him.

Good post. Smith knows we lack punch up front and his post match comments on the official site demonstrate that he is getting as frustrated as us with the lack of goals, especially a at home. He knows. He's not stupid.

But, his period of grace may be running out of road. Three and a bit seasons ago there was a sizeable group of people on here who we're convinced that we were Conference bound and the mess that Smith inherited meant that that view wasn't as hysterical as it now sounds. He turned us from that and a potentially very dark period back into a competitive third division side. He's done well. That doesn't mean he has earned immunity from criticism though. The players we lost last summer was a bitter blow but we got ourselves into a position to compete. We've fallen away and he must shoulder some responsibility for that.

He gave the players Christmas Day off because he trusted them. Cue a no show on Boxing Day at the team bottom of the league. He signed a player we had apparently been tracking for some time. That hasn't worked. Since the Swindon game at home we seem to have gone into too many games with a "let's see what happens" attitude rather than going for it. Our opponents tend to kitchen sink it with 30 minutes to go if they are losing. We fiddle about with subs on 60, 75 and 85 minutes for fear of going further behind.

In 2013 smith deserved an A plus for what we achieved. 2014 so far has been a distinctly average B minus.

[wednesburysaddler]

if you want to get rich out of the last 2 home games coming up back the away side to win and under 2.50 goals in match.

would have landed a fair few times this season

[saddlerken]

Are people still buying this sexy football cack?

Yes, they are.

Sick of people making assumptions that this way of playing (possession football at best or tippy tappy pissy passy at worst) is the right way.

The right way, all you passing fans out there, is too SCORE a goal and preferably more goals than the opposition.

Passing the ball to another team mate is definitely better than constant long ball tactics. But that's about it.

I still don't know what the plan is. I assume it's to finish roughly half way up division 3, which is our average historical position, It's a nice plan, but not a spectacular one.

We-ARE-Walsall makes a good point about Ray Graydon. many times, there were some aimless long balls from Neil Pointon in particular, but often, Andy Rammell would get on the end of it and something would come of it. It could force a corner, gain a free kick or retain possession higher up the field. This can be effective football. But Ray Graydon mixed it up. Being a winger himself, some of the full back and wing play was excellent. Pedro and Aranalde on one side, Marsh and Mavrak :lol: on the other :wink: . Regardless, it was bloody exciting at times. Go back further to the Buckley years. The approach was cavalier almost, forsaking our away form but an incredible home record BLASTING 6 past almost anyone. Under Nicholl, an excellent partnership up front between Lightbourne and Wilson proving that finding a STRIKER isn't that tricky, and at a bargain price (free). The same can be said in latter years with Leitao and Junior. Richard Money's football was crap but at least he occasionally attacked the opposition, even if it was too reliant on set pieces, at least there was a plan to score the odd goal.

This manager doesn't know what a striker is, either that or he just wants to pack the midfield with crabs and midgets. He's not beyond criticism and he is the complete opposite to Jose Mourinho by the way. If only we had a Drogba type figure up front.

He isn't a bad manager but he isn't doing unbelievable things with our famous tiny budget. He is doing more or less the same as everyone before him, achieving mediocrity at best. And signing average players on long term contracts who don't have a specific position in the team.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

Looking at the season as a whole - with the context of budgets, crowd sizes, who we lost, who we brought in etc etc - Only a fool would be disappointed. Yes, every now and again a Graydon-like side, Yeovil, Scunthorpe etc etc like side will defy the odds and gate crash the party - but its rare.

This game (and several others the last few weeks) we've lacked the punch to kill off a game. Then again, what is new. Yesterday was so frustrating to watch. Nothing wrong with going sideways, if - eventually there is a planned outcome. Unfortunately for us, we don't have anyone capable of executing the plan. I don't know if it was our plan yesterday but Bax, Sawyers, Ngoo, Brandy - didn't play with any shape or recognisable pattern. It may well have been to cause City problems, but it appeared to just leave Mantom and Chambers in a quick sand midfield looking lost.

I think the pivitol moment of this season was the Notts County game and the closing of the Loan window. Can't blame Ngoo, didn't hear many people complaining when he arrived. He hasn't worked out. A dynamic striker able to lift the crowd and a game may well have kept us on the coat tails of P'bro. I'm sure Smith and O'Kelly realise that.

Smith and RO'k only continue to take us forward on the pitch. Much more attractive prospect to future players and youngsters than we were when he first took over. Pointless doubting him.

I don't disagree with with what you say on the whole. It isn't pointless to doubt him though, blindly following any old nonsense. I'd agree 100% that I hope he remains, stability is a great thing in football. This does not mean he is untouchable, in fact it would do him good as a man and a manager to take criticism a little better.

One thing is for sure, it's back to the drawing board for him, to work out a way of making us a dangerous team, because right now, we are weak, easy to play against, and we don't score goals, or even look like scoring them most the time.

Saddlerken made a great point, although I know he doesn't like Baxendale much, I personally think he could be a good player. Problem being Smith put little or not thought in to where he was going to play the players he signed. Westcarr, Sawyers, and Baxendale all play best in the same position, this meant 2 of the 3 have been pushed out of position the whole season. Westcarr has done reasonably well, Baxendale has had a nothing season, 1 year of the 3 years down the drain. I hope Smith goes away in the summer and has a long hard think about what he wants to do with this team, and how he will achieve it. I like good football, what I've seen recently is in no way good football, it's bland, boring football with no end product.

[Blackheath Saddler]

Going slightly off topic here does anyone know what all that nonsense was about in the Tile Choice lower in block 1? It looked like one bloke was offering the other one outside. The guy that was been confronted from behind looked like Brian McDermott. Only Walsall fans can turn on one another :roll:

[PT]

Are people still buying this sexy football cack?

Yes, they are.

Sick of people making assumptions that this way of playing (possession football at best or tippy tappy pissy passy at worst) is the right way.

The right way, all you passing fans out there, is too SCORE a goal and preferably more goals than the opposition.

Passing the ball to another team mate is definitely better than constant long ball tactics. But that's about it.

I still don't know what the plan is. I assume it's to finish roughly half way up division 3, which is our average historical position, It's a nice plan, but not a spectacular one.

We-ARE-Walsall makes a good point about Ray Graydon. many times, there were some aimless long balls from Neil Pointon in particular, but often, Andy Rammell would get on the end of it and something would come of it. It could force a corner, gain a free kick or retain possession higher up the field. This can be effective football. But Ray Graydon mixed it up. Being a winger himself, some of the full back and wing play was excellent. Pedro and Aranalde on one side, Marsh and Mavrak :lol: on the other :wink: . Regardless, it was bloody exciting at times. Go back further to the Buckley years. The approach was cavalier almost, forsaking our away form but an incredible home record BLASTING 6 past almost anyone. Under Nicholl, an excellent partnership up front between Lightbourne and Wilson proving that finding a STRIKER isn't that tricky, and at a bargain price (free). The same can be said in latter years with Leitao and Junior. Richard Money's football was crap but at least he occasionally attacked the opposition, even if it was too reliant on set pieces, at least there was a plan to score the odd goal.

This manager doesn't know what a striker is, either that or he just wants to pack the midfield with crabs and midgets. He's not beyond criticism and he is the complete opposite to Jose Mourinho by the way. If only we had a Drogba type figure up front.

He isn't a bad manager but he isn't doing unbelievable things with our famous tiny budget. He is doing more or less the same as everyone before him, achieving mediocrity at best. And signing average players on long term contracts who don't have a specific position in the team.

I agree with a lot of that. Comparing eras is littered with flaws though and whilst Lightbourne and Wilson are good case-in-points, I'm sure Smith would love to be able to afford players like Junior and Jorge, the former only as 'free' as a South American owned asset can ever be and Jorge costing £150k.

When our benchmark was being cack, becoming average was something worth aiming for. Now we've become average we need to aim to become good and genuinely challenge for the top six.

I'd settle for top-half this season now. Makes us seeds in the League cup so it is worth something. Next season is a big one for the managerial career of Mr Smith. Will be interesting to watch.

[aaaae]

Bottom line is Bristol City were very poor and there for the beating, it should have been an easy 3 points for us.

But we lost to them because of our tactics, and because our penalty taker was suspended for a moment of idiocy.

[latviancheese]

We've been cack since we used up our attacking threat in one game when we beat County 5-1. They really must be poo if we scored 5.

[PT]

We've been cack since we used up our attacking threat in one game when we beat County 5-1. They really must be poo if we scored 5.

Interesting that. The conditions at Notts that day meant that we had to become direct. The pitch was a mud-bath. Look at the five goals. Measured directness. Should have been 12 on a day when everyone was saying the conditions wouldn't suite our 'style'.

[aaaae]

We've been cack since we used up our attacking threat in one game when we beat County 5-1. They really must be poo if we scored 5.

Interesting that. The conditions at Notts that day meant that we had to become direct. The pitch was a mud-bath. Look at the five goals. Measured directness. Should have been 12 on a day when everyone was saying the conditions wouldn't suite our 'style'.

Balls for strikers to run on to, what the hell were we thinking of?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljn7xvyb29Y[/youtube]

[Sadders]

I personally thought we missed Milan yesterday and last week. Playing Baxendale wide right is basically like playing with 2 right backs, as literally all he provides is defensive legs. Milan came on and played well for 20 minutes last week and yesterday was the kind of game where we needed some trickery from somewhere.

[BathSaddler]

We've been eartha since we used up our attacking threat in one game when we beat County 5-1. They really must be poo if we scored 5.

Interesting and depressing to note, if not surprising, that our forward players have only scored 5 goals [Westcarr 3, Lalkovic 1 and Sawyers 1] between them in the 14 games since Meadow Lane. Just not good enough.

[WFC_Rob]

Playing Baxendale wide right is basically like playing with 2 right backs, as literally all he provides is defensive legs.

How wrong you are - he's one of the least defensive-minded players we have. Problem is, all his best football in a Walsall shirt has come when he's played in the middle - a position Romaine Sawyers seems to have a monopoly on at the moment, despite not really doing enough to keep his place.

To be fair, there have been a number of good posts on this thread since yesterday, when the majority seemed to be very rash and making out we're doomed despite the fact that we'd have each given one of our own limbs to be in this position two years ago. I do agree with those who say Smith's got a big summer ahead of him though. We've managed to chase the top six for most of this season with only one striker capable of playing at this level, and it's not rocket science to realise that better use of his budget in the summer, or a more suitable reinforcement than Ngoo, could have proved the difference.

Smith needs to make better use of his limited budget next season. In hindsight, we probably could have done without Purkiss, Hemmings, McQuilkin & Hewitt this year. I wonder what might have happened if we'd sacrificed their salaries to pay for a capable striker and maybe the odd emergency loan to cover injuries or suspensions.

[tinned]

We've been cack since we used up our attacking threat in one game when we beat County 5-1. They really must be poo if we scored 5.

Interesting that. The conditions at Notts that day meant that we had to become direct. The pitch was a mud-bath. Look at the five goals. Measured directness. Should have been 12 on a day when everyone was saying the conditions wouldn't suite our 'style'.

We've been cack since we used up our attacking threat in one game when we beat County 5-1. They really must be poo if we scored 5.

Looking at the season as a whole - with the context of budgets, crowd sizes, who we lost, who we brought in etc etc - Only a fool would be disappointed. Yes, every now and again a Graydon-like side, Yeovil, Scunthorpe etc etc like side will defy the odds and gate crash the party - but its rare.

This game (and several others the last few weeks) we've lacked the punch to kill off a game. Then again, what is new. Yesterday was so frustrating to watch. Nothing wrong with going sideways, if - eventually there is a planned outcome. Unfortunately for us, we don't have anyone capable of executing the plan. I don't know if it was our plan yesterday but Bax, Sawyers, Ngoo, Brandy - didn't play with any shape or recognisable pattern. It may well have been to cause City problems, but it appeared to just leave Mantom and Chambers in a quick sand midfield looking lost.

I think the pivitol moment of this season was the Notts County game and the closing of the Loan window. Can't blame Ngoo, didn't hear many people complaining when he arrived. He hasn't worked out. A dynamic striker able to lift the crowd and a game may well have kept us on the coat tails of P'bro. I'm sure Smith and O'Kelly realise that.

Smith and RO'k only continue to take us forward on the pitch. Much more attractive prospect to future players and youngsters than we were when he first took over. Pointless doubting him.

I don't disagree with with what you say on the whole. It isn't pointless to doubt him though, blindly following any old nonsense. I'd agree 100% that I hope he remains, stability is a great thing in football. This does not mean he is untouchable, in fact it would do him good as a man and a manager to take criticism a little better.

One thing is for sure, it's back to the drawing board for him, to work out a way of making us a dangerous team, because right now, we are weak, easy to play against, and we don't score goals, or even look like scoring them most the time.

Saddlerken made a great point, although I know he doesn't like Baxendale much, I personally think he could be a good player. Problem being Smith put little or not thought in to where he was going to play the players he signed. Westcarr, Sawyers, and Baxendale all play best in the same position, this meant 2 of the 3 have been pushed out of position the whole season. Westcarr has done reasonably well, Baxendale has had a nothing season, 1 year of the 3 years down the drain. I hope Smith goes away in the summer and has a long hard think about what he wants to do with this team, and how he will achieve it. I like good football, what I've seen recently is in no way good football, it's bland, boring football with no end product.

Totally agree. Try saying that on some Facebook threads and you will be lynched for even daring to suggest Smith is anything other than the messiah.

[Andy_Petterson]

We played alright yesterday, anyone with eyes can see we're not far from being a decent team. Yes, I know it's frustrating the lack of goals, but it doesn't really matter for the rest of the season now does it.

The usual suspects on here moaning about the tippy tappy football. If anything we don't do it enough. The whole point is that it tires the opposition out mentally and physically.

Of course if we could mix it with some swift counterattacks that would be even better.

Bakayoko looks promising. There were a couple of times he made runs into the corners similar to what Grigg did last season. Good omens.

[Andy_Petterson]

today confirmed to myself that I made the correct decision not renewing my season ticket
and I don't think my 300 odd quid loss is going to make all the difference to the budget
its games like today that when you have a season ticket you feel you have to go when all I wanted to do was go home

I know weve done well up to the business end of the season with the budget but I aint getting any younger and that's another season weve thrown away a chance of some much needed celebration down the club.

if the club cant be bothered trying to sort it out then I cant be bothered tailoring my Saturdays around watching what I would say next season would be relegation football.

Quite right. Next season I am only going to attend the games that Walsall win.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

We played alright yesterday, anyone with eyes can see we're not far from being a decent team. Yes, I know it's frustrating the lack of goals, but it doesn't really matter for the rest of the season now does it.

The usual suspects on here moaning about the tippy tappy football. If anything we don't do it enough. The whole point is that it tires the opposition out mentally and physically.

Of course if we could mix it with some swift counterattacks that would be even better.

Bakayoko looks promising. There were a couple of times he made runs into the corners similar to what Grigg did last season. Good omens.

Not sure if I am a usual suspect, I do have eyes though.

You say the whole idea is it tires the opposition out, but it's not working. The lack of goals is a problem, it shouldn't be ignored. I don't say throw the whole possession game out of the window, it needs adapting though, enhancing whatever you want to call it.

I agree, Bakayoko looks like he could be a useful player, which begs the question why we even signed Ngoo, he's not as bad as some people say, but he's not great, the game time for Bakayoko would have been far more beneficial to him, and possibly the team, even if it was off the bench.