Welcome. This site is an archived version of the previous UpTheSaddlers forum (December 2004 to May 2018). To visit the new UTS website, please click here.

Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Reports and reaction from the 2013-2014 season as Walsall finished 13th in League 1
User avatar
PT
Site Addict
 
Posts: 3733
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 8:04 pm
Location: Liverpool and skaville

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:49 pm

rogerem wrote:
PT wrote:I'm sure I remember being in crowds of around 3,500 at home to Vale in the early 80's.
With both of us on the verge of the play-offs/promotion?......No chance PT.


Early 80's - number one - we were awful until 83-84, number two - the play-off didn't exist. number three - Vale were yo-yo between division 3 and 4 and never got close to promotion.

I was there, you wasn't.

In fact the "we always got 6,000 plus for this fixture pre-rent" is utter tripe. You probably have to go back to the early 70's when we got those crowds for all games to find when we got those attendances versus Vale. There may have been a game or two in the Ramsden era where we may have got around 6,000 but that was because it cost washers and buttons to get in, OAP's were free and we always stuck four or five up them.

I haven't got "The book" handy but I'm sure you'll find crowds in the 3's and 4 thousands against Vale in the early 80's. If only Bernie were still on here - he'd have the numbers at his fingertips!

rogerem
UTS Legend
 
Posts: 1221
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:40 pm

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:54 pm

PT wrote:
rogerem wrote:
PT wrote:I'm sure I remember being in crowds of around 3,500 at home to Vale in the early 80's.
With both of us on the verge of the play-offs/promotion?......No chance PT.


Early 80's - number one - we were awful until 83-84, number two - the play-off didn't exist. number three - Vale were yo-yo between division 3 and 4 and never got close to promotion.

I was there, you wasn't.

In fact the "we always got 6,000 plus for this fixture pre-rent" is utter tripe. You probably have to go back to the early 70's when we got those crowds for all games to find when we got those attendances versus Vale. There may have been a game or two in the Ramsden era where we may have got around 6,000 but that was because it cost washers and buttons to get in, OAP's were free and we always stuck four or five up them.

I haven't got "The book" handy but I'm sure you'll find crowds in the 3's and 4 thousands against Vale in the early 80's. If only Bernie were still on here - he'd have the numbers at his fingertips!
Oh I was there....I wrote play offs/ promotion for a reason.
Bernie will tell you.

rogerem
UTS Legend
 
Posts: 1221
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:40 pm

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:02 pm

rogerem wrote:
PT wrote:
rogerem wrote:
PT wrote:I'm sure I remember being in crowds of around 3,500 at home to Vale in the early 80's.
With both of us on the verge of the play-offs/promotion?......No chance PT.


Early 80's - number one - we were awful until 83-84, number two - the play-off didn't exist. number three - Vale were yo-yo between division 3 and 4 and never got close to promotion.

I was there, you wasn't.

In fact the "we always got 6,000 plus for this fixture pre-rent" is utter tripe. You probably have to go back to the early 70's when we got those crowds for all games to find when we got those attendances versus Vale. There may have been a game or two in the Ramsden era where we may have got around 6,000 but that was because it cost washers and buttons to get in, OAP's were free and we always stuck four or five up them.

I haven't got "The book" handy but I'm sure you'll find crowds in the 3's and 4 thousands against Vale in the early 80's. If only Bernie were still on here - he'd have the numbers at his fingertips!
Oh I was there....I wrote play offs/ promotion for a reason.edit.....In fact I can remember fail bringing nearly todays attendance to FP .... One of there fans tried to entice more of their lot to join him onto the pitch.
Bernie will tell you.

SWS1
 

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:24 pm

I'm a trifle disappointed, fellows. In fact, I'm off to top myself.
Toodle pip!
:evil:

User avatar
bangsection
Site Addict
 
Posts: 3951
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:28 pm
Location: York

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:30 pm

PT wrote:
I haven't got "The book" handy but I'm sure you'll find crowds in the 3's and 4 thousands against Vale in the early 80's.


3,757 in 83/84.

5,671 in 85 for an FA Cup replay (with Man City lined up in the 3rd round which would have got a few extra out the house).

That's it for early 80s games against Vale.

User avatar
Andy_Petterson
Glitterati
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:30 pm

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:34 pm

bangsection wrote:
PT wrote:
I haven't got "The book" handy but I'm sure you'll find crowds in the 3's and 4 thousands against Vale in the early 80's.


3,757 in 83/84.

5,671 in 85 for an FA Cup replay (with Man City lined up in the 3rd round which would have got a few extra out the house).

That's it for early 80s games against Vale.



What are you playing at quoting actual statistics that can be used to prove/disprove a theory? Mods please ban this poster.

BathSaddler
Site Addict
 
Posts: 3914
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:44 pm
Location: Bath

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:42 pm

Well, I'm not Bernie but here are the Division 3/League One home attendances versus Port Vale in the 1980's [along with positional context]. There were no away followings announced in those days, but they never had more than 1,000, sometimes significantly less.

73-74: 4,168 [my first Walsall/Vale match at Fellows Park - a boring end of season 0-0 draw, mid-table]
74-75: 6,507 [in October, top half position]
75-76: 4,526 [early December, mid-table]
76-77: 5,459 [October, bottom 4]
77-78: 4,892 [September, just below halfway]
83-84: 3,757 [October, first match after 6-3 defeat at Oxford and following on from an 8-1 defeat at Bolton just weeks earlier]
86-87: 5,696 [first play off season, last-but-one home game, just missed out in 8th position]
87-88: 6,083 [November, in the promotion places at the time and eventually promoted via play-offs]

I think PT makes his point.

rogerem
UTS Legend
 
Posts: 1221
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:40 pm

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:48 pm

No disrespect to PT.....I think those late 80's stats reveal healthy well above todays crowd.

BathSaddler
Site Addict
 
Posts: 3914
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:44 pm
Location: Bath

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:52 pm

rogerem wrote:No disrespect to PT.....I think those late 80's stats reveal healthy well above todays crowd.


Overall rogerem, today's attendance of 4,909 is probably somewhere in the middle of all of those figures quoted and is pretty much par for the course for games against Fail, give or take a few either way, so the point made by PT is probably right.

That said, today's 'home' attendance of 3,744 is our third lowest this season, behind Stevenage[3,542] and PNE [3,623]. Not very good, really.

User avatar
sallian
Glitterati
 
Posts: 890
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:33 am

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:27 am

longdogs wrote:This was the best thing about today's game.
Image


beautiful sunset longdogs, you took a great shot there (which means you are not Hemmings or Westcar).... its great composition, very symbolic I think....scattered pink clouds are like candy floss....a bit like Walsall's play....all pretty and sweet but lots of gaps

User avatar
sallian
Glitterati
 
Posts: 890
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:33 am

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:33 am

I'm beginning to think Walsall have much better chance of scoring if Richard O'Kelly just plays as striker rather than trying to teach the unteachable youths.

User avatar
Exile
Jobsworth
 
Posts: 23623
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:06 pm
Location: ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:22 am

rogerem wrote:No disrespect to PT.....I think those late 80's stats reveal healthy well above todays crowd.

As opposed to the early 80s stats you mentioned to start with?

Perhaps it's because there's dipstick planks like you who refuse to attend yet pretend you're fans.

If you're not on the side of the club, you're against it.

mossa
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:00 pm

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:45 am

After a terrible morning at work, rushing my backside off and driving 20 miles to get there on time, i wish I had never bothered. We had a lot of pointless possession which was getting us knowhere, whereas Vale played efficiently and always looked more dangerous when they attacked. The problem we have is we have no plan B at all, Plan A will work against the poor teams like Shrewsbury but when we come up against a solid and tactical team like Vale, Preston etc we will always stuggle.
I thought Baxendale and Sawyers were very poor yesterday. Sawyers was particularly frustrating as he seemed to bottle a few challenges, he's very talented but for a big bloke yesterday he was bossed around far too easily. Lalkovic tried to create some energy but didn't really get into the game, at least he put the effort in though. I thought Westcarr had a good game yesterday, he held the ball up and bought others into the game well, it's not his fault that the players by him were so poor. I knew when I got on here he would be criticized as people love to make him a scapegoat. Regardless of what anyone says about him he is our most likely player to score.

SaddlerCrewe
Glitterati
 
Posts: 691
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:11 pm

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:46 am

mossa wrote:After a terrible morning at work, rushing my backside off and driving 20 miles to get there on time, i wish I had never bothered. We had a lot of pointless possession which was getting us knowhere, whereas Vale played efficiently and always looked more dangerous when they attacked. The problem we have is we have no plan B at all, Plan A will work against the poor teams like Shrewsbury but when we come up against a solid and tactical team like Vale, Preston etc we will always stuggle.
I thought Baxendale and Sawyers were very poor yesterday. Sawyers was particularly frustrating as he seemed to bottle a few challenges, he's very talented but for a big bloke yesterday he was bossed around far too easily. Lalkovic tried to create some energy but didn't really get into the game, at least he put the effort in though. I thought Westcarr had a good game yesterday, he held the ball up and bought others into the game well, it's not his fault that the players by him were so poor. I knew when I got on here he would be criticized as people love to make him a scapegoat. Regardless of what anyone says about him he is our most likely player to score.


I noticed that Sawyers seemed to bottle a few challenges too. It seemed as though he has scared of getting hurt or injured.
I'm not sure he's a big bloke though, not particularly tall and he doesn't seem to have much upper body strength.

User avatar
DonningtonSaddler
UTS Legend
 
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 1:30 pm
Location: Round the Wrekin

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:03 am

mossa wrote:After a terrible morning at work, rushing my backside off and driving 20 miles to get there on time, i wish I had never bothered. We had a lot of pointless possession which was getting us knowhere, whereas Vale played efficiently and always looked more dangerous when they attacked. The problem we have is we have no plan B at all, Plan A will work against the poor teams like Shrewsbury but when we come up against a solid and tactical team like Vale, Preston etc we will always stuggle.
I thought Baxendale and Sawyers were very poor yesterday. Sawyers was particularly frustrating as he seemed to bottle a few challenges, he's very talented but for a big bloke yesterday he was bossed around far too easily. Lalkovic tried to create some energy but didn't really get into the game, at least he put the effort in though. I thought Westcarr had a good game yesterday, he held the ball up and bought others into the game well, it's not his fault that the players by him were so poor. I knew when I got on here he would be criticized as people love to make him a scapegoat. Regardless of what anyone says about him he is our most likely player to score.


Agree.

Hysterical rantings about Westcarr is more about the need for some to have a boo-boy than anything else. We do need a plan B striker and that striker could be Hewitt, it just he hasn't had a real chance yet. At the risk of sounding like a dinosaur , plan B could be go to a 4 4 2 formation with Westcarr playing just behind Hewitt. I would have Hemmings, Chambers, Mantom, Lalcovic across the middle with defence the same except put in Purkiss for J Chambers. Purkiss is a better crosser of the ball into the box. Shexy football is great against the likes of Peterborough and Shrewsbury but sideways football is pointless against teams like Vale. Direct football does not always equate to hoofball.

User avatar
WFC_Rob
Site Addict
 
Posts: 4878
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:29 pm
Location: Birmingham/Shrewsbury

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:22 am

They did a job on us, didn't they? Just as Preston, Bradford and Coventry have done. They singled out Sawyers, roughed him up a bit in the first 20 minutes, and he barely had a kick for the rest of the game. When that happens, you need to find some joy elsewhere - i.e. In wide areas - yet Baxendale and Lalkovic both had stinkers. Westcarr also looked off the pace, which meant we were always going to struggle in the final third.

Vale were horrible to watch, but more importantly for us, we're a nightmare to play against. Pope looks to play the man rather than the ball 75 per cent of the times he goes up for a header, but it's very effective and they play off him from there.

It was suggested to me yesterday that we shouldn't have started with Sawyers as that was exactly what they were expecting, and had obviously worked their game plan around it. Easy to say in hindsight, but yesterday may give Smith food for thought over this Featherstone away, Sawyers at home tactic - he might need to be a bit cleverer than that.

On the plus side, Mantom had another really good game, and Hemmings looked really bright when he came on. On e negative note, Shrewsbury are now only three placed lower than us in the league, despite being the worst side I've seen for quite some time.
Last edited by WFC_Rob on Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
JonnyOwen
Site Addict
 
Posts: 2549
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:32 pm
Location: Anywhere but here.

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:13 pm

DonningtonSaddler wrote:
mossa wrote:After a terrible morning at work, rushing my backside off and driving 20 miles to get there on time, i wish I had never bothered. We had a lot of pointless possession which was getting us knowhere, whereas Vale played efficiently and always looked more dangerous when they attacked. The problem we have is we have no plan B at all, Plan A will work against the poor teams like Shrewsbury but when we come up against a solid and tactical team like Vale, Preston etc we will always stuggle.
I thought Baxendale and Sawyers were very poor yesterday. Sawyers was particularly frustrating as he seemed to bottle a few challenges, he's very talented but for a big bloke yesterday he was bossed around far too easily. Lalkovic tried to create some energy but didn't really get into the game, at least he put the effort in though. I thought Westcarr had a good game yesterday, he held the ball up and bought others into the game well, it's not his fault that the players by him were so poor. I knew when I got on here he would be criticized as people love to make him a scapegoat. Regardless of what anyone says about him he is our most likely player to score.


Agree.

Hysterical rantings about Westcarr is more about the need for some to have a boo-boy than anything else. We do need a plan B striker and that striker could be Hewitt, it just he hasn't had a real chance yet. At the risk of sounding like a dinosaur , plan B could be go to a 4 4 2 formation with Westcarr playing just behind Hewitt. I would have Hemmings, Chambers, Mantom, Lalcovic across the middle with defence the same except put in Purkiss for J Chambers. Purkiss is a better crosser of the ball into the box. Shexy football is great against the likes of Peterborough and Shrewsbury but sideways football is pointless against teams like Vale. Direct football does not always equate to hoofball.


I completely agree with you about Hewitt, I really rate him from his spell in the first team, and we haven't even seen him with the supporting in the hole player behind him yet. He just isn't getting the chances, he works tirelessly, just look at the assist that he gave Westcarr when we drew against Orient this season - injured himself in leaping so high and setting him up!

latviancheese
Site Addict
 
Posts: 13000
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:35 pm

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:47 pm

I wasnt there yesterday, but the match reports sound familiar.

All huff no puff. I dont see why our plan b has to be the lump of a strike. Personally I dont think we use the pace in our side well enough. Just a ball in behind occasionally, for the likes of Hemmings and Lalkovic to go after. Too much play is just in front of defenders, which breaks down eventually as most sides in this division are well drilled in the art of banks of four. Take the Shrewsbury game for example, okay they were a shocking side, but the most effective attacks(goals), came from more direct and quick play.

Sometimes, you just have to twerp it into a channel quickly, even Barcelona do it for the likes of Neymar, who is nowhere near as good as Westcarr anyway.

My one criticism of Smith too, is the fact he gives subs about ten mins each. Pointless.

Id drop Baxendale, for a more direct winger next game.

bigbadsad
UTS Veteran
 
Posts: 496
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:49 pm

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:57 pm

what was kicking off with the ginger scumbag?

User avatar
Leatherman
Site Addict
 
Posts: 3717
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:15 am
Location: Still pointing and laughing even LOUDER at psychotic fantasists.

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:42 pm

TheSwift wrote:Because no one has mentioned it on upthesaddlers before, we need a striker!


Defoe's warming the bench at Tottenham?

User avatar
Leatherman
Site Addict
 
Posts: 3717
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:15 am
Location: Still pointing and laughing even LOUDER at psychotic fantasists.

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:46 pm

rogerem wrote:Man!!......Lets bring us some luck with a goal.
This site is dying, no doubt.


Rog. I don't believe you ever go or have ever been to a Walsall match.

You come on here because, in your sad, humdrum life, we are the only people who listen.

You have no wife or family to speak of and almost certainly no kids.

Try the Samaritans - at least they care.

rogerem
UTS Legend
 
Posts: 1221
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:40 pm

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:10 pm

Leatherman wrote:
rogerem wrote:Man!!......Lets bring us some luck with a goal.
This site is dying, no doubt.


Rog. I don't believe you ever go or have ever been to a Walsall match.

You come on here because, in your sad, humdrum life, we are the only people who listen.

You have no wife or family to speak of and almost certainly no kids.

Try the Samaritans - at least they care.
I can't help biting....He has me in stitches....Can't you tell he's me dad.

User avatar
Jolly Johnny
Site Addict
 
Posts: 3796
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:31 pm
Location: Lovely Liverpool!!

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:26 pm

WFC_Rob wrote:On the plus side, Mantom had another really good game, and Hemmings looked really bright when he came on. On a negative note, Shrewsbury are now only three placed lower than us in the league, despite being the worst side I've seen for quite some time.


And on another negative note, we are now only 7 points above Tranny in 19th with a big bunch just above that. We could really do with a couple of wins now, otherwise we could find ourselves back in mid table / lower table no-man's land.

User avatar
Ancient Moaner
Site Addict
 
Posts: 4101
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:47 pm
Location: Leigh, twixt Wiggin & notloB

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:36 pm

TheSwift wrote:Because no one has mentioned it on upthesaddlers before, we need a striker!


Strange how we all believe that our lack of resources is holding Deano back from taking on decent loanees, or goddamit a 'striker', there are even those who think there is no one 'out there' to be had. I ask everyone to watch the clip of Rothrum in the footy league show..... three great goals scored by household 'names' that they have taken on loan...........

There HAS to be some movement to quell this awful period of our complete inability to score enough goals................How I wish George Kirby or Colin Taylor were still alive, or even Jorge back, with our saviour Buckley in charge, I would much rather us lose 5-6 at home and be entertained....you never know it 'could' bring back some decent crowds to the morgue!

Even if we can't have theses impossible dreams...at LEAST bring back shooting practice to training, to me it is obvious no such training is included, our inability to even score from penalties is proof enough! Tippy tappy passing sideways and backwards might work for Barca but not for a mid table third division outfit!

Rant over, back to my Frosty Jack!

UTS for ever..

User avatar
Leatherman
Site Addict
 
Posts: 3717
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:15 am
Location: Still pointing and laughing even LOUDER at psychotic fantasists.

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:37 pm

rogerem wrote:
Leatherman wrote:
rogerem wrote:Man!!......Lets bring us some luck with a goal.
This site is dying, no doubt.


Rog. I don't believe you ever go or have ever been to a Walsall match.

You come on here because, in your sad, humdrum life, we are the only people who listen.

You have no wife or family to speak of and almost certainly no kids.

Try the Samaritans - at least they care.
I can't help biting....He has me in stitches....Can't you tell he's me dad.


Rog, the only stiches you've had are the ones that hold the metal plate in your head still.

User avatar
saddlerken
Site Addict
 
Posts: 3267
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:24 pm
Location: The Mill

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:38 pm

Is there a worse poster on UTS than rogerem at the moment?

Welsh_Saddler
Site Addict
 
Posts: 9804
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:44 pm
Location: The beautiful Afan Valley

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:15 pm

saddlerken wrote:Is there a worse poster on UTS than rogerem at the moment?


Errrr....... :?

rogerem
UTS Legend
 
Posts: 1221
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:40 pm

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:20 pm

saddlerken wrote:Is there a worse poster on UTS than rogerem at the moment?
English lessons are that way Kenneth ..... :arrow:

User avatar
Leatherman
Site Addict
 
Posts: 3717
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:15 am
Location: Still pointing and laughing even LOUDER at psychotic fantasists.

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:26 pm

saddlerken wrote:Is there a worse poster on UTS than rogerem at the moment?


Saddler Babe?

gray
Glitterati
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:38 pm

Re: Port Vale (H) League One Saturday 30th Nov, 3pm

Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:40 pm

saddlerken wrote:Is there a worse poster on UTS than rogerem at the moment?


There's one or two I can think of that push him close..

PreviousNext
Return to 2013-14 Season

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests