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Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Reports and reaction from the 2013-2014 season as Walsall finished 13th in League 1
Dr David Kelly
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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:23 pm

Welsh_Saddler wrote:Can't remember who scored - just recall the sadness of the whole evening......... :cry:

Today's attendance 5,002 btw.

Blues currently 4-0 up against the Owls :D


I'm sure i went to another game after that. Reserve game and half the seats were missing. Scunthorpe (not swear word) rings a bell. Cor remember.

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:24 pm

chestersaddler wrote:They just had a strong penalty appeal turned down


No, that can't be right.....Brandy's playing for Sheffield United today. :D

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:28 pm

Lalkovic and Westcarr on for Baxendale and Hewitt......

Elsewhere, Sheffield United 0 Preston North End 1
Blues 4 Owls 1
Karl Hawley scored today for Torquay
Port Vale 2 Coventry 2

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:32 pm

Come on you Saddlers!

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:34 pm

Dr David Kelly wrote:
Welsh_Saddler wrote:Can't remember who scored - just recall the sadness of the whole evening......... :cry:

Today's attendance 5,002 btw.

Blues currently 4-0 up against the Owls :D


I'm sure i went to another game after that. Reserve game and half the seats were missing. Scunthorpe (not swear word) rings a bell. Cor remember.

Peter Hart's testimonial v WBA I think

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:37 pm

longdogs wrote:
Dr David Kelly wrote:
Welsh_Saddler wrote:Can't remember who scored - just recall the sadness of the whole evening......... :cry:

Today's attendance 5,002 btw.

Blues currently 4-0 up against the Owls :D


I'm sure i went to another game after that. Reserve game and half the seats were missing. Scunthorpe (not swear word) rings a bell. Cor remember.

Peter Hart's testimonial v WBA I think


Ahh yes. That's it. However i've still got a feeling there was something else too.

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:39 pm

Rotherham are winning in one sense today.....10 fouls against our 2 :shock:

Speaking of fouls, Peterborough are now down to 9 men against MK Dons - currently 2-1 to Posh

And Notts County now 2-0 v. Tranmere !!

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:47 pm

Goal please?

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:48 pm

84 minutes, and Ashley Hemmings on for Sawyers.

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:49 pm

Dr David Kelly wrote:Goal please?


We've just had a couple of corners.....will that do? No, I didn't think it would !

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:51 pm

Welsh_Saddler wrote:
Dr David Kelly wrote:Goal please?


We've just had a couple of corners.....will that do? No, I didn't think it would !


Not good enough. I want yeeesss's and smiley faces and stuff.

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:55 pm

FT - 1 each apiece

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:59 pm

It sounds a bit like "after the Lord Mayor's show" - looking forward to eye-witness reports. Anyone waiting for YYYEEEESSSSSSS and smiley's should tune in next week to follow us against Leyton Orient (they're rubbish, apparently!!) :mrgreen:

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:01 pm

Welsh_Saddler wrote:It sounds a bit like "after the Lord Mayor's show" - looking forward to eye-witness reports. Anyone waiting for YYYEEEESSSSSSS and smiley's should tune in next week to follow us against Leyton Orient (they're rubbish, apparently!!) :mrgreen:


Listening to it on sadsworld, Peter, it sounded like a decent point against a strong side (still unbeaten)

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:18 pm

Decent result against a side who must be doing something right. But 2 chances on target in 90 minutes and only 11 shots (according to BBC stats) shows again that passing must be made to create more chances and quicker...and that midfielders and forwards need to take more shots...and quicker! Interesting to see what happens with Brentford and Orient on Monday. Create 30 at chances at least every match....Thats only one chance every three minutes...and make sure you score ten of them...no more aiming for one nil! 70% possession isn't much use if not penetrating...just wastes your own time not creating chances...and 30% possession is all the other team need so score 5 goals. Maybe Graham Taylor was right about the statistics based philosophy of the long ball....just continuously deliver the ball into the opposition's area as most goals are scored with few passes before them. Don't base football on Spain/Barcelona of recent years as Germany should have won the last two major international tournaments.

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:21 pm

Pretty sure it was Andy Dornan who scored that goal against Rotherham in the last game at Fellows Park. I remember as he was my favourite player at the time, purely because we shared the same first name. When you're 8 years old these things seem significant!

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:53 pm

sallian wrote:Decent result against a side who must be doing something right. But 2 chances on target in 90 minutes and only 11 shots (according to BBC stats) shows again that passing must be made to create more chances and quicker...and that midfielders and forwards need to take more shots...and quicker! Interesting to see what happens with Brentford and Orient on Monday. Create 30 at chances at least every match....Thats only one chance every three minutes...and make sure you score ten of them...no more aiming for one nil! 70% possession isn't much use if not penetrating...just wastes your own time not creating chances...and 30% possession is all the other team need so score 5 goals. Maybe Graham Taylor was right about the statistics based philosophy of the long ball....just continuously deliver the ball into the opposition's area as most goals are scored with few passes before them. Don't base football on Spain/Barcelona of recent years as Germany should have won the last two major international tournaments.


Hate hoof ball. A decent striker though would add something to a good squad of players

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:55 pm

Finch wrote:Pretty sure it was Andy Dornan who scored that goal against Rotherham in the last game at Fellows Park....


Seemed a very nice guy and was a very good full back, attacking skill. I remember in the bad old days of the 15 straight losses....in one match the team were getting a lot of abuse from the Walsall crowd....Andy turned a player and made a decent pass, I shouted 'Well played Andy' and obviously fed up with the negative crowd vibes, he turned round to me and clapped me (not sarcastically)...Very disappointed when his injury ended his career.

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:03 pm

Some will say it was a case of after The Lord Mayor's show, but on the face of it, I just think we came up against a really gritty, typical Steve Evans side, who would probably be the last team you'd want to play less than a week after such a mammoth effort at the Molineux. Rotherham won't get turned over by too many sides this season.

For me, the two changes were a wise move. Smith saw what happened last time we played a league game after exerting a big effort on the Tuesday night, and didn't want the same thing to happen again. It didn't, so I'd suggest the decision paid off. On another day, the freshness of Lalkovic & Westcarr might have nicked us a goal at the end.

Our main issue this afternoon was that we huffed and puffed a lot, but didn't carve out anything more than a handful of half chances. Hewitt ran his socks off, but he was very isolated and didn't really out their back four under too much pressure. That may have been in part down to Sawyers having a quiet game after being booked in the third minute. On the subject of his booking, surely it was either a straight red for an elbow or nothing at all? The ref improved as the game went on, but I thought he made some strange decisions against both sides in the first half.

I think everyone probably put in a 7/10 performance, and it was a point gained rather than two dropped. What cost us in the end was a momentary lapse where we let Revell bully us in our own penalty area, despite coping quite well with him overall.

7 points from a possible 9 is a really good return. Bring on next Saturday, and the biggest test of the season so far.

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:06 pm

chestersaddler wrote:
sallian wrote:Decent result against a side who must be doing something right. But 2 chances on target in 90 minutes and only 11 shots (according to BBC stats) shows again that passing must be made to create more chances and quicker...and that midfielders and forwards need to take more shots...and quicker! Interesting to see what happens with Brentford and Orient on Monday. Create 30 at chances at least every match....Thats only one chance every three minutes...and make sure you score ten of them...no more aiming for one nil! 70% possession isn't much use if not penetrating...just wastes your own time not creating chances...and 30% possession is all the other team need so score 5 goals. Maybe Graham Taylor was right about the statistics based philosophy of the long ball....just continuously deliver the ball into the opposition's area as most goals are scored with few passes before them. Don't base football on Spain/Barcelona of recent years as Germany should have won the last two major international tournaments.


Hate hoof ball. A decent striker though would add something to a good squad of players


I hate hoofball too chestersaddler, but I also hate it when teams don't understand that the aim of passing is to create immediate and continuous chances (apart from passing out of a problem, which actually has the same eventual objective). Don't necessarily need another striker but just a change of mentality about shooting for goal by midfielders and strikers....a change of mental outlook can make a big difference to a player's output, and low expectations....e.g. 'We did well to score one goal' etc tend to have a negative effect on output. It seems shallow and simple but if the team went into matches attempting to win 10-0, and the strikers went into matches attempting (and believing) they will score five....you would likely see the saddlers double their goal output.

It might make everyone miserable but I would like to see a season where every single game, the only objective of all players apart from the strikers was to deliver the ball into the opposition area...it would be interesting to see the end results. 90minutes is a long time...and not enough chances are created.

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:17 pm

sallian wrote:It might make everyone miserable but I would like to see a season where every single game, the only objective of all players apart from the strikers was to deliver the ball into the opposition area...it would be interesting to see the end results. 90minutes is a long time...and not enough chances are created.


Did you miss the Hutchings era? :wink:

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:22 pm

Good god that was a tough game. Bunch of bully boys that were everywhere on the pitch . They are no mugs hence being upbeaten. Il happily take the point.
Up the Saddlers

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:30 pm

Thank heavens I haven't got to watch Rotherham every week.

How many balls we t out the ground?

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:33 pm

Not much to say on that, one word sums it up and that's - stalemate. Rotherham marginally better first half, us the second. 1 goal each, both defended poorly, 1 major chance each - 1 header from Rotherham, Westcarr late on for us. Definite penalty for Rotherham, but some of the fouls the ref missed in the first half were a joke, swings and roundabouts. Rotherham a strong, energetic side, will do well. Us neat, tidy and organised, will do well. Neither side created much, both defences were on top. We couldn't pass it through Rotherham and Butler defended Revell (who was the only real threat) very well.

Smith got his team selection bang on, apart from Sawyers playing wide - he's not a winger and it clearly showed. If we start Sawyers, we can't play 4-3-3 IMO. Hewitt and Downing were poor I thought, Downing's distribution has been poor all season and he seems to be lacking confidence, his overall defending was solid enough. Hewiit didn't play badly, but didn't get involved at all - he's pretty much what his record is, let's hope Smith can work with him. Chambers x2, Featherstone, Taylor and Mantom all 7 or 8 out of 10 - Butler another dominant performance, Revell was the only threat they had, my MOTM. Westcarr and Hemmings were useless when they came on, Westcarr - why not wrap your left around that chance at the end? Hemmings - had possession 3 or 4 times, gave the ball away and passed it straight to them on other occasion - off days for them both. (Well Hemmings anyway :wink:)


If you'd offered me 7 points from Crewe, Wolves and Rotherham with the first 2 away - I'd have snapped your hand off. The mong that rang WM and said 'Rotherham brought 500 and Smith got his tactics wrong, clueless. As Smith said, when we did Brentford & Stoke away, we were slow and tired against Preston. Westcarr and Hemmings were the worst of our players at Wolves and needed a rest. I'd have done the exact same thing, put probably changed the formation. We were physically tired and jaded against a very solid team who are put together on over £4m and will do well this season.

5,002 (828)

Onwards.

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:31 pm

Sadders wrote:Not much to say on that, one word sums it up and that's - stalemate. Rotherham marginally better first half, us the second. 1 goal each, both defended poorly, 1 major chance each - 1 header from Rotherham, Westcarr late on for us. Definite penalty for Rotherham, but some of the fouls the ref missed in the first half were a joke, swings and roundabouts. Rotherham a strong, energetic side, will do well. Us neat, tidy and organised, will do well. Neither side created much, both defences were on top. We couldn't pass it through Rotherham and Butler defended Revell (who was the only real threat) very well.

Smith got his team selection bang on, apart from Sawyers playing wide - he's not a winger and it clearly showed. If we start Sawyers, we can't play 4-3-3 IMO. Hewitt and Downing were poor I thought, Downing's distribution has been poor all season and he seems to be lacking confidence, his overall defending was solid enough. Hewiit didn't play badly, but didn't get involved at all - he's pretty much what his record is, let's hope Smith can work with him. Chambers x2, Featherstone, Taylor and Mantom all 7 or 8 out of 10 - Butler another dominant performance, Revell was the only threat they had, my MOTM. Westcarr and Hemmings were useless when they came on, Westcarr - why not wrap your left around that chance at the end? Hemmings - had possession 3 or 4 times, gave the ball away and passed it straight to them on other occasion - off days for them both. (Well Hemmings anyway :wink:)


If you'd offered me 7 points from Crewe, Wolves and Rotherham with the first 2 away - I'd have snapped your hand off. The mong that rang WM and said 'Rotherham brought 500 and Smith got his tactics wrong, clueless. As Smith said, when we did Brentford & Stoke away, we were slow and tired against Preston. Westcarr and Hemmings were the worst of our players at Wolves and needed a rest. I'd have done the exact same thing, put probably changed the formation. We were physically tired and jaded against a very solid team who are put together on over £4m and will do well this season.

5,002 (828)

Onwards.


Absolutely wasted on the wing and talking to acouple of Rotherham fans after the game they singled him out as being a class act and were relieved he was played out of position. Anyhow 7 points from Crewe (a) Wolves (a) and Rotherham (h) is a great return.

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:01 pm

We're still short of that forward who can turn a defender or make a bit of space. At home teams mark tight and everything becomes eye of a needle stuff... hopefully Troy can develop into that player. Was always going to be difficult after the midweek efforts and so a draw against a decent team isn't too bad (albeit i'm really glad we don't play like them). Just felt it was very winnable with a bit more up top.

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:23 pm

After we scored Rotherham were not interested in winning the game at all and it is a shame that we couldn't pose more of a threat. We are definitely lacking something up front. Yes Hewitt works really hard and I expect him to improve, but sometime I think his effort could be channelled more effectively. It is a shame he wasn't playing with Lalkovic, because he was able to provide some service I think.

I am amazed that Rotherham are so high in the table on that display. Yes they are a tough team, but I wouldn't expect them to have enough guile to unlock defences.

One thing that did amuse me though is the size of Evans girth. Good lord he is one heck of a fatty.

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:35 pm

Ithink the team selection was right for that formation, but I don't think the formation chose was the right one. Away from home, it's a perfect set up with three central midfielders and the two wide men, allowing us to soak up pressure and break quickly. At home though, when we play a side like Rotherham who seemed happy for a point in the second half, there's not enough emphasis on taking the game to the opposition.

Chambers, Mantom and Featherstone were probably three of our better performers, but none of them are naturals at supporting the main striker. We could combat this by threatening from our wide. The only way we can do this is by playing with proper wingers. Baxendale can do a job out there, but he's NOT a natural wide player. Same with Sawyers. Both are the classic number 10, along with Westcarr. Which is the better player is up for discussion.

We desperately lack wingers. Hemmings has his good days bit is a bit hit and miss. Hopefully the signing of Gray can help the situation. Milan looked lively when he came on and played in his natural position, I think we should look to play him out wide as its his natural game, rather than trying to fit square pegs in round holes.

Ar home I'd rather see us play two of Chambers, Mantom and Featherstone. Milan on one flank, Hemmings on the other until Gray gets match fit. Then one of Sawyers, Baxendale or Westcarr supporting Hewitt. There's some tough decisions to be made, most notably which of the midfield trio to drop, as none of them deserve it. It would just enable our attacking players to play in their correct positions, resulting, in theory, in us being more fluid when attacking.

If Gray signs, our next priority, hopefully with the aid of the Grigg money, is another striker. I think Hewitt can become a decent player for us, but all he's had to do today, and at Wolves to an extent is chase balls into corners. He can do a job holding up the ball and bringing others into play, but the service into him has got to be good. Again, going back to the formation we used earlier in the season would help. It's a shame he wasn't really used when we played it.

Another striker, whether on loan or a free transfer, providing they are of the correct standard would take some pressure off him.

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:57 pm

I had sympathy today with Hewitt as i'd like to have seen how he would have done with the couple of chances Westcarr had - that's not a knock on Westcarr by the way, just that Troy didn't have much chance to have a pop.

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Re: Rotherham United (H) League One, Sat 21st Sep 3pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:41 pm

kshammer wrote:I had sympathy today with Hewitt as i'd like to have seen how he would have done with the couple of chances Westcarr had - that's not a knock on Westcarr by the way, just that Troy didn't have much chance to have a pop.

Definitely, Hewitt hasn't been given chance like Westcarr has in and around the box. He has been feeding off scraps since the Crewe game, never really had a chance to shoot, too busy battling and flicking things on.

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