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Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Reports and reaction from the 2013-2014 season as Walsall finished 13th in League 1
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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:27 pm

We-ARE-Walsall wrote:Baxendale needs playing in the number 10 position too, we are going to ruin a good player if he is stuck out on the wing all season.

I disagree with this oft-stated view. Or at least, I don't see what he would offer us by playing that position because he's not as good as Westcarr or Sawyers in it. His decision making is pretty poor and he can mess up the easiest of passes which seems inexplicable to me when he's one of our technically most proficient players.

I am confused about Lalkovic. He was our best attacker yesterday and got into good positions in the channels. He was the only one that looked like creating a chance until Taylor came on and for once we had someone who got to the byline. And yet Lalkovic doesn't really look like a striker. Maybe he could play off someone like Kevin Davies but that's not going to happen so I'm not sure what Smith was trying to achieve by signing him. I think his best role would be in the position Brandy played last year - i.e. drifting out wide to pick up the ball in space and then driving towards the box. Brandy was much more effective doing that rather than playing on the shoulder of the last defender and trying to use his pace to get in behind.

As a final thought, Westcarr missed our easiest chance again yesterday (at least, until we were 3-0 down). That's four games in a row now that he's missed at least one chance he should have done better with. I'm all for being supportive of our players but that doesn't include keeping them in the team when they're bang out of form.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:39 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:I think his best role would be in the position Brandy played last year - i.e. drifting out wide to pick up the ball in space and then driving towards the box. Brandy was much more effective doing that rather than playing on the shoulder of the last defender and trying to use his pace to get in behind.

Couldn't agree more. Lalkovic isn't a striker - or at least, he isn't the kind of striker who can play that role in our system. For me, he either plays instead of Hemmings on the left, or instead of Baxendale on the right.

The irony is, we've got a wealth of options in just about ever position - but not a single one for the lone striker role.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:57 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:
We-ARE-Walsall wrote:Baxendale needs playing in the number 10 position too, we are going to ruin a good player if he is stuck out on the wing all season.

I disagree with this oft-stated view. Or at least, I don't see what he would offer us by playing that position because he's not as good as Westcarr or Sawyers in it. His decision making is pretty poor and he can mess up the easiest of passes which seems inexplicable to me when he's one of our technically most proficient players.

.


It's an interesting view, because if it is the case, then maybe we shouldn't have offered him a 3 year deal ? There is no way in this world he is a winger or inside forward. I'm not saying you are wrong by the way, I think Westcarr has played some great games in that position, and Sawyers looks like he could be good too. However in that role, the odd stray pass isn't all that important in my opinion, your job is to cut open the opposition defence, cause them problems, generally be a nuisance.

I don't think there is one thing with how our front 4 are lined up right now, there are many problems. It needs some balance of some kind. Not my job to sort it out thankfully.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:31 pm

WFC_Rob wrote:The majority of our problems yesterday stemmed from us having no focal point up front. Somehow, the 'false 9' system worked against Tranmere, but evidence suggests it might not be so effective against anyone who's taken the time to send a scout to watch us play. We've got about 4 players who prefer to play just behind the striker, but until we find said striker, we won't trouble too many defences. Sawyers should have started, but would he have made that much of a difference in terms of our goal threat? I'm not sure.

On the subject of strikers, we were 3 down at home, barely carved out a shot on goal, and Smith still saw no need to give Hewitt a game. If he's that bad, ship him out and try something else because he's a waste of a salary at the moment.

I find it desperately frustrating reading all this Westcarr-bashing. He was no worse than Lalkovic, Baxendale or Hemmings yesterday, and he certainly wasn't playing in the position he was so effective in last season. Mind you, if the moronic abuse aimed at Westcarr means someone else in the squad avoids being made a scapegoat, maybe that's a good thing.

Had it not been for Benning and O'Donnell's howlers yesterday, the scoreline probably wouldn't have been so emphatic and there probably wouldn't be so much doom-mongering doing the rounds today. That said, we did look like boys playing against men and once again played our best football in our own half.

Yesterday was far from the end of the world, but Smith does need to realise he can solve so many of our problems by bringing in a striker who's actually half-capable. He probably knows that's the case, but has his hands tied thanks to the FA's ridiculous tribunal system.



Fair assessment, but he's accumulated 5 dire performances and a good cameo against Tranmere so far this season - the rest haven't had 5 bad games hence why he's given the abuse out of everyone which in my mind is absolutely fair enough. Hemmings has done okay so far this season, Baxendale has done well in his wrong position and Lalkovic has re-deeming qualities to his game that Westcarr doesn't, such as pace and movement which can offer us an out ball as it did against Tranmere/Oldham.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:41 pm

Seems like manager and players believe their own hype.

Might work for Barca but 4-6-0 don't work for us.

Whilst we perked up a bit after subs came on should bear in mind that PNE had the game sewn up at that point and were playing for fun.

Sub crap performance.

Weather was nice.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:02 pm

Walsall_Casual wrote:Westcarr is a good player but is clearly off his game and needs benching. To be fair to Smith he was on at him throughout about his game/ positioning and Westcarr chose to ignore him.


No he isn't.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:18 pm

3623 home fans in a gate of 4205, it was probably the lowest PNE following at Bescot that I can recall, incidentally that was a decrease of 190 home fans from the Notts game and gives us an average home following of 3749 in our first 3 home games.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:12 pm

For me the problem is between the sticks and has been since day one. I don't doubt O'Donnell's shot stopping ability but the lack of area domination is a cause for concern. Time to take a look at the alternatives.

As for the lack of goals somebody mentioned that Jay Simpson has been training with us. Might be worth a look.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:36 pm

We-ARE-Walsall wrote:It's an interesting view, because if it is the case, then maybe we shouldn't have offered him a 3 year deal ?


Too right, absolutely shocking and narrow minded decision by the very arrogant bowl head, Mr Dean Smith, the man with the most inappropriate plan for a division 3 football club that you could wish for.

EVEN if Baxendale had been a prolific division 3 striker, then what's wrong with 2 years? You'd still get the spondoolies if he left.

fudge ludicrous decision.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:03 am

saddlerken wrote:
We-ARE-Walsall wrote:It's an interesting view, because if it is the case, then maybe we shouldn't have offered him a 3 year deal ?


Too right, absolutely shocking and narrow minded decision by the very arrogant bowl head, Mr Dean Smith, the man with the most inappropriate plan for a division 3 football club that you could wish for.

EVEN if Baxendale had been a prolific division 3 striker, then what's wrong with 2 years? You'd still get the spondoolies if he left.

fudge ludicrous decision.


:lol:

Deano's "inappropriate plan" and 3 year deal for Bax all the way for me.

Post still made me loff though.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:50 pm

It might well be that we (and the management) were too optimistic at the start of this season - you can't lose all your attack, with 30+ goals, at season's end and expect to carry on where you left off. I am still sure that Deano and his team are more aware of our shortcomings than I am - and, indeed, most of the posters on the board - and are working to remedy them. To say that it's rather difficult to replace 3 very effective players worth 30 goals is something of an understatement: it's donalding impossible in the short term. We really must give some time to the management to remedy the situation AND we must give some time to young players to develop their skills and know-how and, indeed, to develop a bit physically in some cases. If we're in dire straits come the new year, well, that's certainly time to be concerned if not desperate! Meanwhile, a bit of patience, please. (Oh, and no abuse: loud and firm suggestions and advice, but no abuse, please. With a VERY FEW exceptions, the players are all doing their best to establish themselves, improve and/or maintain good performance).
Half way up. Glass half full. :D

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:13 pm

Leatherman wrote:
Walsall_Casual wrote:Westcarr is a good player but is clearly off his game and needs benching. To be fair to Smith he was on at him throughout about his game/ positioning and Westcarr chose to ignore him.


No he isn't.

Change the record.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:55 am

SWS1 wrote:It might well be that we (and the management) were too optimistic at the start of this season - you can't lose all your attack, with 30+ goals, at season's end and expect to carry on where you left off. I am still sure that Deano and his team are more aware of our shortcomings than I am - and, indeed, most of the posters on the board - and are working to remedy them. To say that it's rather difficult to replace 3 very effective players worth 30 goals is something of an understatement: it's donalding impossible in the short term. We really must give some time to the management to remedy the situation AND we must give some time to young players to develop their skills and know-how and, indeed, to develop a bit physically in some cases. If we're in dire straits come the new year, well, that's certainly time to be concerned if not desperate! Meanwhile, a bit of patience, please. (Oh, and no abuse: loud and firm suggestions and advice, but no abuse, please. With a VERY FEW exceptions, the players are all doing their best to establish themselves, improve and/or maintain good performance).
Half way up. Glass half full. :D


Agree totally with this, we have only just strted the season and people are writing the team off. I went last Saturday and to boo players off the pitch is unacceptable, this will do their confidence no good at all.

Whilst i agree that the performance on saturday was crap we are bound to have a few hiccups along the way. Smith has got together a bunch of young players who want to play for us and i personally think that they should be given the time to prove they are good enough to do the job they get paid for.

If come xmas and we are still not good enough then change the team then not 5 matches in. Looking at this board and the comments from other people there is one thing i do agree with and that is we do not have a plan B in case teams shut us down as Notts County did and also Preston, Something to work on there i think.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:08 am

Exile wrote:
Leatherman wrote:
Walsall_Casual wrote:Westcarr is a good player but is clearly off his game and needs benching. To be fair to Smith he was on at him throughout about his game/ positioning and Westcarr chose to ignore him.


No he isn't.

Change the record.


Ok.

No he isn't: it was a double 'A' side.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:15 am

So Walsall dont have a plan b?

I dont even remember when we ever had one :D

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:15 am

Leatherman wrote:
Exile wrote:
Leatherman wrote:
Walsall_Casual wrote:Westcarr is a good player but is clearly off his game and needs benching. To be fair to Smith he was on at him throughout about his game/ positioning and Westcarr chose to ignore him.


No he isn't.

Change the record.


Ok.

No he isn't: it was a double 'A' side.

:lol:

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:28 am

latviancheese wrote:So Walsall dont have a plan b?

I dont even remember when we ever had one :D

clayton mcdonald up front for the last 10 minutes or so.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:50 pm

latviancheese wrote:So Walsall dont have a plan b?

I dont even remember when we ever had one :D


Removing the last letter from the first sentence qualifies the second. :wink:


Only kidding. I'm in one of those moods.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:20 pm

SWS1 wrote:It might well be that we (and the management) were too optimistic at the start of this season - you can't lose all your attack, with 30+ goals, at season's end and expect to carry on where you left off. I am still sure that Deano and his team are more aware of our shortcomings than I am - and, indeed, most of the posters on the board - and are working to remedy them. To say that it's rather difficult to replace 3 very effective players worth 30 goals is something of an understatement: it's donalding impossible in the short term. We really must give some time to the management to remedy the situation AND we must give some time to young players to develop their skills and know-how and, indeed, to develop a bit physically in some cases. If we're in dire straits come the new year, well, that's certainly time to be concerned if not desperate! Meanwhile, a bit of patience, please. (Oh, and no abuse: loud and firm suggestions and advice, but no abuse, please. With a VERY FEW exceptions, the players are all doing their best to establish themselves, improve and/or maintain good performance).
Half way up. Glass half full. :D


You are right of course, but most people appear to have forgotten that our 3 superstars were not particularly that hot at the beginning of last season. After the first 5 games we had 5 points, scored 4 and conceded 6. Compare that with the first 5 games this season and we have 7 points, scored 5 and conceded 6 plus a second round tie with a premiership side.

It's early days and anything can happen still. We have our next stars but it is not obvious who they are yet and just how good they will turn out to be. - Only miss the sun when it starts to snow, Only know you love him when you let him go

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:52 pm

Optimistic wrote:You are right of course, but most people appear to have forgotten that our 3 superstars were not particularly that hot at the beginning of last season. After the first 5 games we had 5 points, scored 4 and conceded 6. Compare that with the first 5 games this season and we have 7 points, scored 5 and conceded 6 plus a second round tie with a premiership side.


Tis a good point... the Brandy and Grigg factor especially took time to kick in.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:43 am

Leatherman wrote:
Exile wrote:
Leatherman wrote:
Walsall_Casual wrote:Westcarr is a good player but is clearly off his game and needs benching. To be fair to Smith he was on at him throughout about his game/ positioning and Westcarr chose to ignore him.


No he isn't.

Change the record.


Ok.

No he isn't: it was a double 'A' side.

So how how about you take some positives for the guy wearing the shirt instead of being a Scunthorpe.

Snide fudge.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:31 pm

Exile wrote:
Leatherman wrote:
Exile wrote:
Leatherman wrote:
Walsall_Casual wrote:Westcarr is a good player but is clearly off his game and needs benching. To be fair to Smith he was on at him throughout about his game/ positioning and Westcarr chose to ignore him.


No he isn't.

Change the record.


Ok.

No he isn't: it was a double 'A' side.

So how how about you take some positives for the guy wearing the shirt instead of being a Scunthorpe.

Snide donald.


... and this from someone who has never seen him play? Shame on you.

Anyway, I'm still positive he isn't as good as what people make him out to be.

P.S. F.O.A B.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:06 pm

Don't have to see anyone play live to support them (ask Sheff). There's highlights on the club site, by the way, in case you didn't know.

Still, if having a boo boy floats your boat then get behind the rest of chavs and go for it. Great look, booing your own lads instead of the opposition.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:20 pm

I think the point is Leatherman, not that he is no where near as good as some people claim. I don't think anyone has said he is a Marco Van Basten, Denis Bergkamp combo. More so that he is no where near as bad as some people are making him out to be.

There are many other targets that have played equally as bad or worse than he has so far this season. Baxendale is one that springs to mind.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:51 pm

exactly WAW.

He is not a top player in the League one, but he is effective for us, which considering the cack WFC have signed over the years, is like fresh air. I can hack the odd poor game. I dont really buy the "lazy" argument either, he just doesn't jump for headers he will never win(useless in the air i will admit), and gets a bit fed up occasionally. Having said that, when he came on against Wolves, he really wanted it, and put himself about.

What he isnt, is "shocking", "cack" etc etc. He is largely useless up front with no one to pass too.

Some fans either have short memories, or have no idea why players are at Walsall FC.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:58 am

latviancheese wrote:exactly WAW.

He is not a top player in the League one, but he is effective for us, which considering the cack WFC have signed over the years, is like fresh air. I can hack the odd poor game. I dont really buy the "lazy" argument either, he just doesn't jump for headers he will never win(useless in the air i will admit), and gets a bit fed up occasionally. Having said that, when he came on against Wolves, he really wanted it, and put himself about.

What he isnt, is "shocking", "cack" etc etc. He is largely useless up front with no one to pass too.

Some fans either have short memories, or have no idea why players are at Walsall FC.


Or are just so racist, they can't see what's in front of them.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:35 am

Magic Man Fan wrote:
latviancheese wrote:exactly WAW.

He is not a top player in the League one, but he is effective for us, which considering the eartha WFC have signed over the years, is like fresh air. I can hack the odd poor game. I dont really buy the "lazy" argument either, he just doesn't jump for headers he will never win(useless in the air i will admit), and gets a bit fed up occasionally. Having said that, when he came on against Wolves, he really wanted it, and put himself about.

What he isnt, is "shocking", "eartha" etc etc. He is largely useless up front with no one to pass too.

Some fans either have short memories, or have no idea why players are at Walsall FC.


Or are just so racist, they can't see what's in front of them.


I don't know if there is any truth in this or not. There have been a few over the years that have failed to win the fans over completely though. Kyle Lightbourne springs to mind. Scored 25 goals 3 years in a row, and still never quite had the full backing of Walsall fans. Then again, Martin O'conner always seemed to be fine. Maybe it is Striker Racism? :lol:

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:36 am

Just look at the performances with and without Westcarr. He frustrates me sometimes, and when he's barclays he is very barclays, but we look alot better with him in there (most of the time).

Westcarr is easy to boo/jeer because if the team is doing badly then his poor technique at times is highlighted. At least he is getting involved though. When Walsall play poorly, the likes of Bax, Sawyers, Hemmings etc can go completely missing for long periods... is that better that being involved but making mistakes? Should they also be jeered? Of course they shouldnt, none of them should as none of them deserve it.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:28 am

kshammer wrote:Just look at the performances with and without Westcarr. He frustrates me sometimes, and when he's barclays he is very barclays, but we look alot better with him in there (most of the time).

Westcarr is easy to boo/jeer because if the team is doing badly then his poor technique at times is highlighted. At least he is getting involved though. When Walsall play poorly, the likes of Bax, Sawyers, Hemmings etc can go completely missing for long periods... is that better that being involved but making mistakes? Should they also be jeered? Of course they shouldnt, none of them should as none of them deserve it.


I don't think he has poor technique at all. It's just his casualness that people wrongly perceive as laziness.

Its no different to Ricketts, in my opinion. The only player we've had in recent years who was good enough to be picked for England, but he was labelled as useless by many of our fans, because his casual confidence wasn't as good as someone running around like a headless chicken, but who was ultimately rubbish. Of which we have had many.

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Re: Preston North End (H) League One Sat 31st Aug 3pm

Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:22 am

Exile wrote:Don't have to see anyone play live to support them (ask Sheff). There's highlights on the club site, by the way, in case you didn't know.

Still, if having a boo boy floats your boat then get behind the rest of chavs and go for it. Great look, booing your own lads instead of the opposition.


If slinging insults at fellow supporters floats your boat carry on. Sheff's in exactly the same boat as you (no pun intended), he follows a team (you can hardly be described as a supporter if you don't go) he rarely sees in the flesh, and high-lights certainly don't provide anything like a full picture. How you can judge performances on a few minutes (usually the best) out of ninety is beyond belief.

I have never booed any Walsall player on or off the pitch, nor shall I. I have never booed the team off the pitch either, although I have sometimes wondered what the bloody hell I was doing coming to watch the same old crap every week - but I, like a few thousand others, do.

That brings us back to were I came in: I go every week (not all away games granted) you don't, and i'd like to think that gives me more of an insight over those that don't when forming a view.

There are others who post on here who's views I respect but disagree with and Westcarr just happens to be one of those topics that most people agree to disagree on.

Snide remarks? .... you need to start reading what you write.

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