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Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Reports and reaction from the 2013-2014 season as Walsall finished 13th in League 1
Welsh_Saddler
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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:38 pm

Only three teams with 100% League records as it stands (Orient, Posh and ourselves), and we're all 1-0 ahead. (Edit, we just went 1-1 :( )

Villa now lead at Arsenal, and the Gunners have 10 men.

Coventry 0-4 up at Carlisle.

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Ancient Moaner
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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:39 pm

Rollocks!!!

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:41 pm

15 minutes to go..... Hewitt on for Baxendale

(Edit) 10 minutes to go.... Featherstone on for Hemmings

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:42 pm

SWS1 wrote:We only need 4 more to go top! :D

5 now :(

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:43 pm

Ancient Moaner wrote:Rollocks!!!

You spelled it wrong. Starts with B :evil:

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:47 pm

...and the donald Dingles go 1-2 up in Bristol :evil:

everyone else can score...... Byfield for Tamworth, Constable for Oxford, and Richards for Cheltenham. Oh, and some bloke called Deeney for Watford !!

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:51 pm

County have just hit O'Donnel's goalpost - it's looking like we'll be lucky to hang on.

Villa now 1-3 up at Arsenal..... :shock:

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:52 pm

Welsh_Saddler wrote:...and the donald Dingles go 1-2 up in Bristol :evil:

everyone else can score...... Byfield for Tamworth, Constable for Oxford, and Richards for Cheltenham. Oh, and some bloke called Deeney for Watford !!


Grigg hasn't scored and has just been substituted away at Gillingham though, every cloud and all :D

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:00 pm

NorwichSaddler wrote:
Welsh_Saddler wrote:...and the donald Dingles go 1-2 up in Bristol :evil:

everyone else can score...... Byfield for Tamworth, Constable for Oxford, and Richards for Cheltenham. Oh, and some bloke called Deeney for Watford !!


Grigg hasn't scored and has just been substituted away at Gillingham though, every cloud and all :D


...and the sub that came on for Will scored in the 95th minute :lol:

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:05 pm

Poor(ish) first half - much better when we were more positive and raised tempo.

Controversial statement : Andy Butler is severely hampering how we play.

Can't wait for Andy Taylor to come back as Benning had a shocker.

Not the end of the world but a lot to improve upon.

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:34 pm

Entertaining game, but we looked worrying at the back, didn't deal with crosses at all. Feel Mantom needed to get involved and on the ball more and we were a bit lost in central areas of midfield today.

A point is about a fair result, both teams had chances to win the game so I will take that result.

How O'Donnell got man of match i'll never know, was the weak link of the team. He's a fantastic shot stopper but his aerial ability is non-existent, didn't catch a cross all game and nearly cost us a couple of goals because of this! Hope he sorts this out!

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:35 pm

Come back Taylor please.

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:30 pm

Not the best of games but will take a point UTS

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:51 pm

baxendale, benning and hemmings very poor today imo. everyone else did ok but just ok. fair play to county, they didn't give us any time on the ball and our plan b of "hoofball" didnt work either. just a word for O'Donnell though he made a couple of great saves first half especially the 1 low down to his right although I have to admit he does look suspect on crosses but having seen the training video I'm sure cutler will pull him up on it and sort that...hopefully.

all in all feeling a bit deflated but its not a disaster by any stretch of the imagination, just a bit gutted the fudge dingles have gone above us :evil:

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:54 pm

Neuromantic wrote:
Controversial statement : Andy Butler is severely hampering how we play.


Not controversial, if closed down he does.

However he is the only player we have who can head the thing.

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:06 pm

Jury is well and truly out on O'Donnell now in my opinion. He either starts claiming crosses or he's got to be replaced. Decent shot stopper but we are so vulnerable from crosses. We conceded at Vale because of it and today conceded three, albeit one not given and one disallowed, in similar fashion. Cutler needs to act fast on it or its going to start costing us an awful lot of points.

As for the game, first half was crap. Two teams cancelling each other out.

Second half was a half of two halves. We came out of the traps quickly and we were fantastic. The movement was brilliant and Sawyers was sublime. Then second part of the half we switched off, allowed County to come back at us and pump cross after cross into the box. Inevitably, Arquin headed him an equaliser. In the end, we were lucky not to lose it.

Mixed day, dissapointing performance on a whole and a big question mark has to be asked about O'Donnell.

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:10 pm

Butler? You mean our best defender for well over 2 years, our captain and our only second candidate for MOTM today. Take him out and put Holden in and let's see us shoot up the table :shock:. You clearly missed Westcarr's performance this afternoon which during the first half in particular was utterly abysmal. He couldn't retain the ball, he won no 50-50 and we missed Lalkovic's pace which would have cost County early on when Westcarr was through round the keeper but couldn't keep the ball in play.

First half was even. County pushed us high up the pitch and were very physical all over the pitch. We got no rhythm together and didn't retain possession for long enough. County looked average but had slightly more pace and attacking threat going forward and looked a tad more likely to score than we did.


Second half we had more space and were excellent for 20 or so minutes where Westcarr, who was fancied putting in a Sam Parkin/Ryan Jarvis ilk performance upfront today squandered 2 literal sitters, one where he couldn't control the ball and a second where all he had to do was play a 5 yard square ball to Baxendale to slot into an open goal. It really should have gone from 0-0 to 3-0 within less than 10 minutes. Brillant goal and performance from Sawyers who played the floating 'in the hole' role absolutely excellently and is a must start there every week. Mantom had another good chance but shot straight at the keeper. We didn't take our chances and County piled it on in late. Had 2 chances, a penalty appeal, a bizarre flap from O'Donnell which nearly let a header of there's trickle over the line and Arquin the County scorer had a header ruled out for offside, which looked very, very close.


Sawyers was absolutely superb in the second half, so much so I questioned Deano's strange tactic of deploying him as a winger for the last 12 minutes and using Hewitt (who looks just an average lower league striker with good pace to me) and effectively nullifying our attacking threat by leaving our only creator out wide. Butler was superb again, marshalled the defence well and won literally every ball/tackle to come his way. On the other hand, Benning was badly exposed defensively, Mantom and Chambers couldn't really exert a presence on the game and strangely Downing for me who mis-placed 6-7 passes and looked generally nervous all afternoon. O'Donnell MOTM? He made 2-3 regular saves and got away with a very, very dicey decision to come and punch the ball.

Hemmings and Baxendale ok, though Baxendale is never a winger in my mind which is slightly worrying that Smith may have built an unbalanced squad. Westcarr, Sawyers and Baxendale all look like players who should be 'in the hole' and we may never get the best of Bax out wide. He doesn't have the pace or natural mind to play as a traditional winger.

County were a good league one side in my mind. Dumbuya, Campbell-Ryce and McGregor are quick. In Leacock, Showumni and Liddle they have some height and power and Danny Haynes will score goals if he keeps himself fit. 1 point gained rather than 2 lost in my mind. Hope today was a good reality check, it was for me.
Last edited by Sadders on Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:42 pm

This may sound strange to some people but I'm actually very encourage by today's performance.

No doubt that County came for 3 points with a plan and it worked. They bullied us and stopped us playing our game and other teams will try to do the same so we have to look at how we can handle that better.

They bullied us and it knocked us off our game and we became very sloppy in posession which is always going to be trouble when your game is based on possession football.

County were the better team for the vast majority of the game apart from a short spell at the start of each half and deserved to win.

World class save from their keeper stopped us grabbing an underseved win.

So why am I so encouraged?

Well, you will get games where it just doesn't happen, where teams do a job on you, we can't expect to pass teams off the park every week. When that happens you need the team to have great spirit and character to get something from those games and that was very evident today. it is coming away from games like today with something that will take us up.

Had this game been towards the end of the season with both us and County going for the playoffs we would all be saying that we didn't play well but dug deep and it's spirit like that which will mean we make it where others fall away.

Just because this game came at the start of the season I see no reason to see it any different, we just don't want to repeat it too often. They say the sign of a good team is when you are not at your best still coming away with something.

We have a team with skill, flaire, character and spirit who seem to care for the club and have a connection with the fans regardless of where we finish I'm over the moon with that and very proud of them.

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:57 pm

Neuromantic wrote:Poor(ish) first half - much better when we were more positive and raised tempo.

Controversial statement : Andy Butler is severely hampering how we play.

Can't wait for Andy Taylor to come back as Benning had a shocker.

Not the end of the world but a lot to improve upon.


Andy Butler's job is a Centre-Half; how can he hinder/hamper the way we are trying to play?

Benning had a good game relative to everybody else. He's still learning by the way.

I would prefer Purkiss to J Chambers too.

A lot of the passes today seemed under weight and didn't carry, whether the grass was too long I don't know. Mantom couldn't work it out in any case.

Westcarr's first touch was pretty abysmal and I can't see how he is a goal machine as described elsewhere.

Overall a mid-table performance. If we do harbour any aspirations of promotion we will need to be a bit more creative and positive in the way we go about things.

Still a long way to go yet.

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:59 pm

sometimes you have to give credit where it's due, county played well today, stifling us and passing the ball really well. their right back was the best player on the pitch. despite this, we got a point, and but for a lack of composed finishing we'd've been outta sight with 1 hour on the clock. particularly enjoyed butler smashing their huge forward to bits.

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:15 pm

wfc & chips wrote:sometimes you have to give credit where it's due, county played well today, stifling us and passing the ball really well. their right back was the best player on the pitch. despite this, we got a point, and but for a lack of composed finishing we'd've been outta sight with 1 hour on the clock. particularly enjoyed butler smashing their huge forward to bits.



Yep you can't win em' all and don't underestimate how desperate County were not to lose today given their start to the season. I found it heartening we did find our way through County when they were working so hard.

Also I know Westcarr missed a couple of chances today, and I don't think he should be our main striker, but he did get clattered a few times in the first half with little protection from the ref. If you've ever played football you will know that can affect you.

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:22 pm

Really entertaining game, enjoyed it.

County clearly had a game plan and pulled it off a treat. Slightly disappointed with the performances of Downing, Westcarr and Benning. I'm a big fan of all three, they will know they can do better - no big deal as far as I'm concerned. Thought Sawyers did really well until he was switched out wide, strange one.

Overall a decent point against a decent side. The boys played some really nice stuff at times and showed a clear desire to take something from the game.

Well played lads.

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:23 pm

Leatherman wrote:
Neuromantic wrote:Poor(ish) first half - much better when we were more positive and raised tempo.

Controversial statement : Andy Butler is severely hampering how we play.

Can't wait for Andy Taylor to come back as Benning had a shocker.

Not the end of the world but a lot to improve upon.


Andy Butler's job is a Centre-Half; how can he hinder/hamper the way we are trying to play?

Benning had a good game relative to everybody else. He's still learning by the way.

I would prefer Purkiss to J Chambers too.

A lot of the passes today seemed under weight and didn't carry, whether the grass was too long I don't know. Mantom couldn't work it out in any case.

Westcarr's first touch was pretty abysmal and I can't see how he is a goal machine as described elsewhere.

Overall a mid-table performance. If we do harbour any aspirations of promotion we will need to be a bit more creative and positive in the way we go about things.

Still a long way to go yet.


In this system, going back to the centre half (and starting play from the goalkeeper) is massively influenced by the speed in which the ball is transferred between the centre halves. The goalkeeper and back 4 set the tempo of the game - which was a massive problem in the first half. If I was Smith, I would ban Butler from channel hoofing and fine him if he did. It is terrible.

It's a tad naive to think his job is just to head the ball away and hoof it.

I counted loads and loads of times he have the ball away with long aimless hoofs upfield. Watch the difference with Downing (who wasn't at his best today) who gets the ball quickly into the midfield (and accurately).

It's massively important how the defenders play in our style - I am not try to have a go at you or anything, but in the modern game, the teams who can keep the ball and distribute quickly are the ones who do better than most.

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:28 pm

Neuromantic wrote:
Leatherman wrote:
Neuromantic wrote:Poor(ish) first half - much better when we were more positive and raised tempo.

Controversial statement : Andy Butler is severely hampering how we play.

Can't wait for Andy Taylor to come back as Benning had a shocker.

Not the end of the world but a lot to improve upon.


Andy Butler's job is a Centre-Half; how can he hinder/hamper the way we are trying to play?

Benning had a good game relative to everybody else. He's still learning by the way.

I would prefer Purkiss to J Chambers too.

A lot of the passes today seemed under weight and didn't carry, whether the grass was too long I don't know. Mantom couldn't work it out in any case.

Westcarr's first touch was pretty abysmal and I can't see how he is a goal machine as described elsewhere.

Overall a mid-table performance. If we do harbour any aspirations of promotion we will need to be a bit more creative and positive in the way we go about things.

Still a long way to go yet.


In this system, going back to the centre half (and starting play from the goalkeeper) is massively influenced by the speed in which the ball is transferred between the centre halves. The goalkeeper and back 4 set the tempo of the game - which was a massive problem in the first half. If I was Smith, I would ban Butler from channel hoofing and fine him if he did. It is terrible.

It's a tad naive to think his job is just to head the ball away and hoof it.

I counted loads and loads of times he have the ball away with long aimless hoofs upfield. Watch the difference with Downing (who wasn't at his best today) who gets the ball quickly into the midfield (and accurately).

It's massively important how the defenders play in our style - I am not try to have a go at you or anything, but in the modern game, the teams who can keep the ball and distribute quickly are the ones who do better than most.


I think you have a point. But remember County had a monster and a whippet up front today. That makes it much harder to pass the ball, your instinct is just to 'get rid'.

Butler has shown enough composure in previous games to make me think he can fit into our style.

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:06 pm

Like others I feel a bit deflated but that probably shows how far Smith has brought us and raised our expectations.

We were sloppy too often in critical positions, the weight of passing just out on too many occasions.

Too many players had 5 or 6 out of 10 games (Benning, J Chambers, Downing, Baxo, Mantom, Hemmings) and against a lively County side that was always going to lead to a tricky afternoon.

Smith's subs were odd. Westcarr and Sawyers tormented their centre halves all afternoon. Far too clever for them and with a bit more directness as sawyers did for the goal we'd have been out of sight with 20 minutes to go. So why they both ended up on the wings was a mystery only Smith could probably explain.

O'Donnell deserved his MOTM. Three or four cracking saves.

Would have settled for seven points out of nine but we've got some severe tests over the next few weeks. We need to step it up a bit.

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:30 pm

Best summary so far, PT.

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:33 pm

Benning was poor again today as he has been for the last three games, I hope Taylor is fit for next match. He has plenty of good technical skills but I'm afraid he still has to learn his basic
trade which is defending. Time and time again he was beaten or failed to cut out crosses by making poor decisions and or standing off his player giving his opponent time to either pass the ball or easily run past him. He needs 'resting'.
Agree with Neuromantic, Butler scores high on cabbage points when it comes to passing the ball which is generally late. inaccurate and long, whilst I appreciate his head the ball abilities and tough style he should release the ball quicker to some one who can pass. It's interesting to note that on the the occasions when Featherstone has been substitute and come on he always drops deeper to make himself available for a pass from our hero. :idea:

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:26 pm

We put our clear cut chances away and we're out of sight... unfortunately we don't and end up being glad for a point. Credit Notts County though, they were alot better than I thought they'd be.

Basically our attackers, other than Sawyers, were anywhere between quiet (Bax) and terrible (Westcarr - and i'm a fan of him usually). Benning was poor too but he's young and it's a learning curve for him - would like Taylor in now though I think.

We ay good enough to win every game but the fact we're disappointed (a bit) we only got a draw - to make it 3 wins and 1 draw out of 4 - shows how far we've come. UTS.

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:26 pm

Unbeaten after 4. I'll settle for that. :D
Unbeaten after 14? I'll settle for that. :D :D :D
Unbeaten after 40?..... :D ...................................................................................................................................................... :D
How about you?

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Re: Notts County (H) League One - 17 Aug 2013

Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:44 pm

gotta disagree with this butler criticism, it's the grit displayed by him and chambers that provides the requisite protection, affording our other players the freedom to play that style. players complement each other to make a team, barça don't play mascherano for his vision and delicate touch. despite so many being in denial, the long ball has proven a valuable asset in recent times, but we know how good manny is in the air, plus without milan we lack the searing pace for the ball over the top. butler lacked options, but that was a feature all over the pitch today.

criticism of the full backs is harsh, too. both received insufficient support, leaving each against 2 men regularly.

i didn't understand the substitutions.

although my comment about composure wasn't aimed squarely at westcarr, he was the principal culprit, and i reject a bit of rough and tumble as an excuse. this is lower league football.

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