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Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Reports and reaction from the 2012-2013 season as Walsall finished 9th in League 1
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Worsul
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:21 pm

Bernie wrote:
funk_hits_the_fan wrote:Okay, so why have so many of the big clubs been at the top for so long, and why have clubs like Rochdale never been past league one? Are all the small clubs badly managed and that's why they are down there? Population does not come into it on any level.

To be honest I can pull this apart on so many levels, its just, well RUBBISH haha.....


Big clubs stay big by appointing good managers. When a big club appoints a succession of bad managers then they drop down the leagues. The clubs like Arsenal and Everton who have consistently been in the top division are very much the exception. Others such as Man Utd, Man City, Leeds, Wolves, Villa etc etc did not stay at the top when led by idiots. Small clubs rise when given good leadership - there are countless examples of this. Without good leadership they will stay in the lower divisions.


But we had a good manager in Dicky Dosh. We wouldn't have lost 5-1 today with him in charge.

I think I agree with your earlier post about Walsall owners, past and present, having a lot to answer for.

philthesaddler
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:28 pm

Ok, so I'll do my usual thing and post my opinions before I've even read any other posts on this thread.

First things first, can I just say what a quality ground the Ricoh Arena is. I dont think there's a bad seat in the house, the bowl is steep, the access easy and I found the stewards to be decent human beings, which makes a change.

On to the football.

Once again no Bowerman, strange.

Started pretty well, but then again, I think it's fair to stay Coventry started very slowly, so that's probably why we looked like we could hold our own for 10 mins. Even during the period when we held our own, we could have conceded 2 or 3, mainly thanks to Richard Taundry giving the ball away endlessly and being unable to catch their winger (Christie?).

Their missed chances in the first quarter of an hour were only a sign of things to come, and Smith didnt react by doing what I'd have done - screamed my head off at Richard Taundry.

Through a big slice of fortune we took the lead, and this only served to perk Coventry up. Then we stopped playing, and stopped trying to play.

From the moment we scored our first goal to the end of the first half, we didnt keep the ball for more than 3 passes, time and time and time again we would get the ball back then we would give it away, usually within one of 2 touches, which immediately put the defence under pressure. Moan all you like about our defence - and they were poor today - but the midfield really have to take a big slice of the blame. Paterson, Featherstone, Westcarr being the main culprits.

The third goal shouldn't have been allowed due to a push on Taundry, and whilst the protests to the referee probably had some substance, I only wish the players put the same energy and application in to their football as they do in to moaning to the referee. Considering that we could have been 4 or 5 down by that point, you really have to wonder why the players bothered complaining to the ref at all.

This is what is really worrying me, losing has become a habit, the players feel "hard done by". I tweeted to some of the players after the defeat in our opening game this season when they were down on their luck and blaming this that and the other, it's synonymous with the culture at the club, and Smiths post-match comments go even further to proving this point - why even mention the ref in a post-match interview after you've been hammered 5-1? A match that could easily have been 7-1 without complaint. Unless the ref practically heading the ball in for the 5th, you really cant stand there and complain about the ref.

So now we are watching the record-equalling worst side in Walsall's history - that fact alone should see Smith packing his bags, but this is Walsall and we do things differently.

I said at the start of the season that this team had very little to offer - no height, no strength, no guile, no physical presence - I was very worried, and today proved that I was right, we got nowhere near Coventry, NO-WHERE-NEAR them, we weren't even in the game, and it was embarrassing. We've struggled now for 3 seasons in a row, and this year we are worse placed than ever, with a small squad, smaller attendances, smaller budget, and it looks like we're going down without a whimper.

I don't mind getting relegated, but I don't want to see Walsall getting relegated without a bit of fight or pride.

Sort it out Gamble.

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Whitters
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:40 pm

Bernie wrote:
funk_hits_the_fan wrote:Okay, so why have so many of the big clubs been at the top for so long, and why have clubs like Rochdale never been past league one? Are all the small clubs badly managed and that's why they are down there? Population does not come into it on any level.

To be honest I can pull this apart on so many levels, its just, well RUBBISH haha.....


Big clubs stay big by appointing good managers. When a big club appoints a succession of bad managers then they drop down the leagues. The clubs like Arsenal and Everton who have consistently been in the top division are very much the exception. Others such as Man Utd, Man City, Leeds, Wolves, Villa etc etc did not stay at the top when led by idiots. Small clubs rise when given good leadership - there are countless examples of this. Without good leadership they will stay in the lower divisions.

Totally agree Bernie.
Small clubs are really at a disadvantage because as soon as any small club manager (or player for that manager) even shows a glimmer of talent, the big boys crowd around to poach.
Having said that, we've had good managers like Lee and Graydon who weren't poached.
Funk's example of Rochdale is a good one as they were doing really well and then their manager was poached and now they're back to square one for the 100th time.
It's all part of the "romance" of following a small club.

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funk_hits_the_fan
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:43 pm

Worsul wrote:
funk_hits_the_fan wrote:
Worsul wrote:
You have given two possible scenarios where population doesn't have a direct correlation with success

That is very different to saying population does not come into at all


There's plenty more, I didn't want to ramble.


I look forward to the Orkney Isles taking on Sahara Desert FC in next year's World Club final.

I'll let others decide who is correct.


Well what you have said there actually goes to further prove my point.

So what you are saying then, in essence Bernie, is all the clubs at the bottom have consistently appointed bad managers? I can see your point to a degree, but there are fans of clubs that are going out of business that would disagree about the bad management of Walsall F.C. Ray Graydon wasn't just a good manager, he was a miracle worker and that's what it took to get our small club to Division One....yet he failed everywhere else he went. We say he's a miracle worker, Bristol Rovers fans (another small club) would disagree.

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Whitters
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:45 pm

Top post phil.

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Graydon48
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:04 pm

Why all the negativity against Smith . We have played really well in at least 4 games this season and it's clear that Smith/Gambles plan is to focus on the Walsall Senior Cup and the Birmingham Senior Cup. We might be relegated but we can be proud of our team when we win at least the Walsall Senior cup. You lot are just blind to the master plan of Gamble and the board to bring silverware to Walsall.

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Whitters
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:20 pm

Graydon48 wrote:Why all the negativity against Smith . We have played really well in at least 4 games this season and it's clear that Smith/Gambles plan is to focus on the Walsall Senior Cup and the Birmingham Senior Cup. We might be relegated but we can be proud of our team when we win at least the Walsall Senior cup. You lot are just blind to the master plan of Gamble and the board to bring silverware to Walsall.

Good stuff!
Also, you learn a lot more from a loss than a win so we're learning heaps at the moment.

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DonningtonSaddler
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:48 pm

Worsul wrote:
Whitters wrote:[
If population comes into it then China or India would be world cup winners every 4 years.



I would have thought the following argument would be fairly non contentious

Bigger population -> bigger fan base -> more money -> better facilities/better players-> more success.

Perhaps this argument carries less validity now you get the likes of Abramovich and Man City Oil Sheikhs

The India/China point can be explained with a nanoseconds thought and it's disappointing Whitters lacks the capacity to do so himself, but i'll bite.

Football isn't the national sport in India/China, so they although they have bigger populations, they don't have the requisite pool of football talent.

In years to come I fully expect China to become more successful at football



India (big country - national sport = Cricket ) England (small country - national sport = Football) How come England tonk India at cricket?

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bangsection
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:49 pm

philthesaddler wrote:
So now we are watching the record-equalling worst side in Walsall's history


Which record have they equalled?

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saddlerken
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:55 pm

Is Smith worse than Hutchings and now our 2nd worst ever manager?

philthesaddler
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:56 pm

Run of winless games- wfc's record is 15, set in 87 isn't it?

latviancheese
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:00 am

philthesaddler wrote:
This is what is really worrying me, losing has become a habit, the players feel "hard done by". I tweeted to some of the players after the defeat in our opening game this season when they were down on their luck and blaming this that and the other, it's synonymous with the culture at the club, and Smiths post-match comments go even further to proving this point
.


This.

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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:14 am

philthesaddler wrote:Run of winless games- wfc's record is 15, set in 87 isn't it?


1988/89

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bangsection
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:17 am

philthesaddler wrote:Run of winless games- wfc's record is 15, set in 87 isn't it?


Record of winless games is 21 set in 88-89 I think. Something to aim for!

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Whitters
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:38 am

Next time we advertise for a manager I expect we'll get a record number of applications.
It's a job which is safer than Sir Alex's.

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funk_hits_the_fan
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:46 am

Just seen the goals on the old Beeb - when did we sign Fanny The Fox to play in goal??

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pumajaguar
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:08 am

Where to start, we can't defend, can't attack and have a clueless manager. Other than that we're a decent side :roll:

Even when we were playing reasonably well, for the first 20 minutes or so, we gifted Coventry several clear cut chances and should have been at least a goal down.

What really worries me is the fact that Coventry seemed to be in second gear almost all game, heavens knows what the score would have been if they really went for it.

A lot of the players seemed more concerned with moaning at the ref and claiming penalties then actually trying to score, maybe its because they know deep down that we haven't got a chance of scoring from open play.

Listening to Smith and the players talk to the press they still seem to have it in their heads that we are this great footballing team who play lovely passing football. Sorry but no, we haven't played that way for months now and it was clearly a fluke, we are as hopeless as last season but without the solid defence. Will we find a Cuvellier or Ledesma to save us this year? I won't hold my breath.

Mantom has been anonymous since he returned. Patterson was awful and if he plays the next game I'll know for sure that he is indeed Dean Smith's lovechild. And as for Smith he clearly has no idea how to sort this mess out other than marginalising our top scorer and most gifted striker Bowerman and club legend Jimmy Walker.

It was a right mission getting there on the train from Bloxwich and the trains were full of Christmas shoppers and smelt like farts.

I want my money back.

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Graydon48
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:13 am

In Smiths Post Match interveiw the pick of his usual self denial is Butlers sending off was harsh. The foul on Brandy 1st half was worse but their lad didnt get a card. Butlers second yellow wasnt for a foul it was discent.All us behind the goal could see that shame you couldnt when it was right by the halfway line you Ginger Prick.

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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:27 am

Just got back after a lengthy night out and If that clown isn't sacked in the morning then that's me finished this season.

I hope many around me shouting- I haven't been so angry at a Walsall
Side since the Merson days - what an embrassment.

Transfer list Andy Butler and sack the lot of them.

Richard Taundry is the worst Player ever to wear the shirt.

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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:34 am

Can we bring back, you know, the five idiots?

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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:48 am

Right, had a bostin drink, considered the result and realised this isn't Walsall football club anymore. It's a vehicle for one blokes saving account, nothing more, its history from 1888 means nothing to him, it's fan base means nothing, a cup run means nothing, even the heady heights of mid table mean fudge all. Enough is enough.

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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:43 am

I can't add anything to describe the awfulness of yesterday's non-performance. A promising position against a non-too confident team thrown away through lack of application and organization.
Slagging off the Ref is a little pointless when the eleven on the pitch are so dire and clueless. Suffice to say that I left half-way through the second half (the third time I've done so in many too many years of following the Saddlers) and so didn't get to see Butler's sending off or the fifth goal.

Highlight of the day - a couple of hours Christmas Shopping in Brum. Great to have the opportunity to have a leisurely browse around Waterstones.

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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:07 am

bangsection wrote:
philthesaddler wrote:Run of winless games- wfc's record is 15, set in 87 isn't it?


Record of winless games is 21 set in 88-89 I think. Something to aim for!


15 for straight defeats. And 21 without a win?

Here we go, here we go, here we go! :?

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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:01 am

derbysaddler wrote:Right, had a bostin drink, considered the result and realised this isn't Walsall football club anymore. It's a vehicle for one blokes saving account, nothing more, its history from 1888 means nothing to him, it's fan base means nothing, a cup run means nothing, even the heady heights of mid table mean **** all. Enough is enough.


Your a bit slow Derby ;-)

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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:07 am

We've reached the almost inevitable phase in our latest manager's tenure where he demonstrably doesn't know his best team or best formation.

The club need to recognise this and either:
a) accept the fact that this could go on for another two years, and accept the potential consequences of that.
b) decide that with two years on a contract for a young manager, they need to review the support and expertise they have made available to Smith. In short, get someone else in to help and pay them what it takes.
c) cut their losses, sack Smith and move on while the season can be salvaged via improved team selection, in-match decision making and player recruitment in January.

I can't see other variables. Whilst not wanting the club to wash their dirty laundry in public, I think those fans that remain would benefit from some key messages from the club beyond the latest 'Bonser still cares about the club' soundbite that doesn't move anything forward whatsoever and just seems to generate wry smiles at best and derision and hostility at worst. However, for me there's little more than a 'heard it all before' shrug of the shoulders. I doubt I'm the only one where my level of apathy is reaching an all time high. I've probably got more unused tickets in my season ticket than ever before already.

My own perception, based on nothing more than gut feeling, is that no one at the club works hard enough: players, manager, CEO...

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Louise
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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:23 am

Ive only just calmed down enough to post after that shambolic performance yesterday.
I have watched some dross over the years but today was the worst.
We were totally clueless, the defence was non existant.
Butler, our so called inspirational captain was a disgrace to get sent off, he is not a young pro and should know better.
Taundry is the luckiest man alive to be a professional footballer - he wouldnt get in a good school squad and today showed all his inadequacies - he was so out of his depth it was embarrassing to watch.
Coventry could have had ten and at one point I thought they might ,thats how bad it was.
The fans were as ever vocal and a credit to the club - wish the players had the same passion as the fans.
Smith just doesnt seem to have a clue and we are going down without a doubt.
Glad I didnt buy a season ticket this year, so next Saturday Im going to save the £50+ I normally spend and stay in the warm cos after shelling out the same amount today I am not inclined to do it all again.

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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:22 am

[quote="Louise"]Ive only just calmed down enough to post after that shambolic performance yesterday.
I have watched some dross over the years but today was the worst.
We were totally clueless, the defence was non existant.
Butler, our so called inspirational captain was a disgrace to get sent off, he is not a young pro and should know better.
Taundry is the luckiest man alive to be a professional footballer - he wouldnt get in a good school squad and today showed all his inadequacies - he was so out of his depth it was embarrassing to watch.
Coventry could have had ten and at one point I thought they might ,thats how bad it was.
The fans were as ever vocal and a credit to the club - wish the players had the same passion as the fans.
Smith just doesnt seem to have a clue and we are going down without a doubt.
Glad I didnt buy a season ticket this year, so next Saturday Im going to save the £50+ I normally spend and stay in the warm cos after shelling out the same amount today I am not inclined to do it all again.[/quote]

Same as you Louise. There are 7 of us -3 adults and 4 kids who will not be in attendance for the Yeovil game. Enough is enough...

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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:04 am

Our only hpe is that we get Flo back and manage to keep him after Jan, there will be no Ledesma. We are now in the expected position fighting for relegation, unless we find some miracle set of players that can fit in our £5 a week wages, we are in no shape to survive
Coventry may go into Administration and Portsmouth may get Liquidated, thats two teams down, hart of the pool should also go, that leave one

Wonder who that will be someone beginning with W???

No matter what, it only papers over the crack, the whole team is league 2 standard and until we have more players of flo and Ledesma's class we will be where we are bottom of L1 or in L2

Doomed Captain Smith, your choices are now under grave doubt!!!

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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:34 am

DonningtonSaddler wrote:
Worsul wrote:
Whitters wrote:[
If population comes into it then China or India would be world cup winners every 4 years.



I would have thought the following argument would be fairly non contentious

Bigger population -> bigger fan base -> more money -> better facilities/better players-> more success.

Perhaps this argument carries less validity now you get the likes of Abramovich and Man City Oil Sheikhs

The India/China point can be explained with a nanoseconds thought and it's disappointing Whitters lacks the capacity to do so himself, but i'll bite.

Football isn't the national sport in India/China, so they although they have bigger populations, they don't have the requisite pool of football talent.

In years to come I fully expect China to become more successful at football



India (big country - national sport = Cricket ) England (small country - national sport = Football) How come England tonk India at cricket?


There are other variables that affect the outcome of a sporting event, plus there is always a random element to a one-off match.

I am not saying the bigger population wins every time. I am saying the country/town with the bigger population has the greater likelihood of being successful.

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Re: Coventry City (A) League 1 Saturday 8/12/12.

Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:08 pm

disgraceful

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