Hartlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 24/11/12.

[King Crimson]

Watching the League One goals, I counted at least eight which were scored following saves/parries by 'keepers.

Of course, our own today came from the ball coming back out and falling kindly for Holden.

Slippy conditions, wet ball, lots of possession, lots of opportunities - but very few shots on target. Hit the target, you'll either score or work the goalkeeper. Chances are you'll have a share of saves and rebounds come back out creating further, often easier chances. Miss the target and it will normally result in a goal kick.

Boys, it's the big white rectangle with the bits of string in it you're aiming for. Especially you, Jamie.

A Ricketts-, Mooney-, Ibehre-, Deeney-, Byfield-type striker would have scored several today. Bending runs to stay onside, work rate, etc. sometimes just can't substitute for accuracy in front of goal.

Shooting practice on Monday. Although I'd have the forwards in Sunday.

[SaigonSaddler]

NO WAY! :x

I can't believe this result! Any team with the form our opponents had were absolutely there for the taking - no excuses! It had to be won.

fudge rubbish. :x

[Jonmarlow]

Really don't understand how people can be having a go at Bowerman now.

Watch the runs he makes off the ball, they are excellent, much better than Grigg (who I think is an OK player) can muster. These runs opened up Pool about two or three times, yes we didn't score but Bowerman didn't come until the 76th minute! I really can't understand why he is getting so little game time. His minutes to goals ratio this season must be very impressive. He might not offer a lot else other than goal scoring but neither did Pippo Inzaghi, David Trezeguet or Van Nistelrooy and it didn't do them much harm. Smith isn't giving him a chance.

Patterson was really frustrating today, he has talent but the sooner he realises he isn't Messi, Ronaldo and Ibrahimovic rolled into one the better.

All in all that was a game we had to be winning. Hartelpool were awful and we won't get the chance for an easier three points all season.

Apparently Bowie's mouth contributes to his own downfall, constantly falling out with DS - if that is the case then the manager is making the right decision by leaving him on the bench and teaching him a lesson, no one player is bigger than the club, especially a kid who thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread after having a good month of games.

If you fools carnt see that the problem is not Bowerman it is DS then you are as brain dead as DS is!!!!!! DS has never liked GB and never will it has nothing to do with GB mouth it is the fact that DS just dosent rate the young lad "by the way who last month won the young player of the month award for the whole of the football league" which some of you seem to forget!!! GB is still learning his trade and is overhaul game might not be great but there is one thing this lad is very good at is putting the ball in the back of the net which we are struggling for at the moment. Also how can the rest of GB game improve if he hasnt got a manager or coaching staff to help improve his game on the training ground it also bolis down to man management which unfortunatly the manager does not poses. If you look at the other teams in the league they do not drop there top goal scores for any games ours has only started a handfull????? Donaldson bentford, mcleod portsmouth, clark Scunthorpe never miss a game and he is only 2 goals behind these players, the lad would have probaly been on double figures now and in our last 3 games if he had been starting perhaps thoses games we would have got wins instead of draws!!!! how do you expect the lads game to improve if he isnt playing?

[Cully]

Absolutely, and I think a lot of us would on here - but still he is the manager of Walsall Football Club and deserves to be shown respect by his players, especially a 2nd year professional who is nowhere near fully establishing himself yet.

The manager of Walsall Football Club deserves respect? Just think about some of the people that Bonser has appointed to that position recently: Paul Merson, Kevan Broadhurst, Jimmy Mullen, Chris Hutchings and now Dean Smith. Can you wonder if some of the players are not as respectful as they should be? Doesn't respect have to be earned these days?

I don't think that Ray Graydon and Richard Money had much trouble earning respect from the players when they were at Walsall.

I suppose if a young player like Bowerman is playing up then the next thing we will hear is that Smith has "lost the dressing room."

I don't think we are far away from that Bernie, Bowerman is not 'playing up', it is Smith who has the problem with more than one of the squad now, some of them are in fear of not carrying out his idiotic instructions and others are guaranteed their place regardless of form and suitability of playing position.

There is only one person who is responsible for our poor performances and results. PERIOD

[chestersaddler]

Absolutely, and I think a lot of us would on here - but still he is the manager of Walsall Football Club and deserves to be shown respect by his players, especially a 2nd year professional who is nowhere near fully establishing himself yet.

The manager of Walsall Football Club deserves respect? Just think about some of the people that Bonser has appointed to that position recently: Paul Merson, Kevan Broadhurst, Jimmy Mullen, Chris Hutchings and now Dean Smith. Can you wonder if some of the players are not as respectful as they should be? Doesn't respect have to be earned these days?

I don't think that Ray Graydon and Richard Money had much trouble earning respect from the players when they were at Walsall.

I suppose if a young player like Bowerman is playing up then the next thing we will hear is that Smith has "lost the dressing room."

Any manager deserves respect from day 1 - it is then theirs to lose, not the other way around.

[chestersaddler]

Easy to understand formula...can't score = relegation end of!

Other teams hire the likes of Cureton,Parkin,Beattie..known to score even if the rest of the team is pap.
We get Westcarr, a second rate conference bound no hoper, is he the answer? I doubt it. What we need is an Akinfenwa type of bulldozer, not an A.N. Other Midfielder who thinks he can score, but hey, this is Worsul, we can't afford anyone decent.

Better study how to beat the thugs in Division Four, cus that's where we are heading, Barnet, Burton, and Accrington Stanley, the excitement of such destinations on a wet and miserable November Saturday afternoon make the heart pound...not.

Do the decent thing Deano, you ain't making it as a manager......

I cannot reply on the other thread as it has been locked for some reason. We scored and led twice at Crawley but didn't win and we scored yesterday and didn't win. According to the reports, Hartlepool were never a threat, so you could just as easily ague that our failure to keep a clean sheet was as big a contributor as not converting chances.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

Easy to understand formula...can't score = relegation end of!

Other teams hire the likes of Cureton,Parkin,Beattie..known to score even if the rest of the team is pap.
We get Westcarr, a second rate conference bound no hoper, is he the answer? I doubt it. What we need is an Akinfenwa type of bulldozer, not an A.N. Other Midfielder who thinks he can score, but hey, this is Worsul, we can't afford anyone decent.

Better study how to beat the thugs in Division Four, cus that's where we are heading, Barnet, Burton, and Accrington Stanley, the excitement of such destinations on a wet and miserable November Saturday afternoon make the heart pound...not.

Do the decent thing Deano, you ain't making it as a manager......

I cannot reply on the other thread as it has been locked for some reason. We scored and led twice at Crawley but didn't win and we scored yesterday and didn't win. According to the reports, Hartlepool were never a threat, so you could just as easily ague that our failure to keep a clean sheet was as big a contributor as not converting chances.

I have said it in numerous threads. There are countless games we would have won or got more from had we been able to defend remotely well. Our two center backs are a real problem this season. We are missing Manny Smith far more than I anticipated. The fact we replaced him with a full back is probably one of the reasons why.

[Darth Vader]

Absolutely, and I think a lot of us would on here - but still he is the manager of Walsall Football Club and deserves to be shown respect by his players, especially a 2nd year professional who is nowhere near fully establishing himself yet.

The manager of Walsall Football Club deserves respect? Just think about some of the people that Bonser has appointed to that position recently: Paul Merson, Kevan Broadhurst, Jimmy Mullen, Chris Hutchings and now Dean Smith. Can you wonder if some of the players are not as respectful as they should be? Doesn't respect have to be earned these days?

I don't think that Ray Graydon and Richard Money had much trouble earning respect from the players when they were at Walsall.

I suppose if a young player like Bowerman is playing up then the next thing we will hear is that Smith has "lost the dressing room."

Any manager deserves respect from day 1 - it is then theirs to lose, not the other way around.

True. But then everyone goes and hears his post match interview's.

[latviancheese]

Absolutely, and I think a lot of us would on here - but still he is the manager of Walsall Football Club and deserves to be shown respect by his players, especially a 2nd year professional who is nowhere near fully establishing himself yet.

Exactly. Plus the fact Bowerman does nothing outside of the box.

This thing about Bowerman doing nothing outside the box is becoming fallacy when the alternatives in his position keep failing to put chances away.

I wasn't too sure before, but given our fortunes in front of goal over the last two games, I don't think we can afford to keep Bowerman on the bench. Even if he does very little outside of the penalty area.

Im not disagreeing. Infact the same applies to Grigg in the opposite direction. He might be alright at the nice stuff but he doesnt score.

[pumajaguar]

Absolutely, and I think a lot of us would on here - but still he is the manager of Walsall Football Club and deserves to be shown respect by his players, especially a 2nd year professional who is nowhere near fully establishing himself yet.

Exactly. Plus the fact Bowerman does nothing outside of the box.

Since when have we been good enough and flushed with so many attacking options that we can overlook a goal scorer because he does nothing outside the box?

It's the same way some people on here criticise Andy Butler because he isn't Paolo Maldini. Yes he has limitations but he is a League One defender and has been excellent for us.

We are Walsall, what sort of players do people expect.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

Absolutely, and I think a lot of us would on here - but still he is the manager of Walsall Football Club and deserves to be shown respect by his players, especially a 2nd year professional who is nowhere near fully establishing himself yet.

Exactly. Plus the fact Bowerman does nothing outside of the box.

Since when have we been good enough and flushed with so many attacking options that we can overlook a goal scorer because he does nothing outside the box?

It's the same way some people on here criticise Andy Butler because he isn't Paolo Maldini. Yes he has limitations but he is a League One defender and has been excellent for us.

We are Walsall, what sort of players do people expect.

I think you need to go away and read a few more of my posts. I don't expect anything. Observations from what I have seen. For what it's worth I have nothing against Butler. Committed, desire to play football, and play for Walsall. Your average lower league defender, with the added bonus he wants to make the most of what he has got. However, he has been far from "Excellent" for us this season. I am putting this down to the fact he has had the useless Holden next to him. That's not even a dig at Holden, cos he has never been a center back.

The Smith and Butler combo worked reasonably well, Butler likes to go and attack the ball, and Smith was always positionally aware, and did a hell of a lot of covering. Holden does not do this, and until we find someone who can sweep up, Butler will continue to look average.

Sure that opinion ruffles a few feathers, because Andy Butler is a popular figure, and rightly so. Doesn't mean there is no truth in it.

[Optimistic]

I know we only drew and people have very different opinions but I thought sadders & ROB_WFC summed it up well.

I also know we didn't win when we really should have and Hartlepool were dreadful. However, looking at the Sporting Life online stats we had 10 shots on target & 10 shots off target and I thought that the Pool keeper made some very decent saves when really we should have scored. So we scored one which could have been 3 or 4 and we only didn't win because Hemmings, who I thought was having a decent game until then, made a poor back pass for whatever reason and cost us a goal.

I chose to think we had bad luck again, some people think that its all Smiths fault. I also think that if we can keep this squad together for another season with 12 months more experience in the young players we will have a decent side. We are not a million miles away, it will come good and I didn't feel like this during the last 2 seasons when it was awful to watch.

I am still Optimistic.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

I know we only drew and people have very different opinions but I thought sadders & ROB_WFC summed it up well.

I also know we didn't win when we really should have and Hartlepool were dreadful. However, looking at the Sporting Life online stats we had 10 shots on target & 10 shots off target and I thought that the Pool keeper made some very decent saves when really we should have scored. So we scored one which could have been 3 or 4 and we only didn't win because Hemmings, who I thought was having a decent game until then, made a poor back pass for whatever reason and cost us a goal.

I chose to think we had bad luck again, some people think that its all Smiths fault. I also think that if we can keep this squad together for another season with 12 months more experience in the young players we will have a decent side. We are not a million miles away, it will come good and I didn't feel like this during the last 2 seasons when it was awful to watch.

I am still Optimistic.

There was nothing decent to watch about Bury, the two Lincoln games, and Scunthorpe. However we have played some good games this season, and been unlucky in a fair few of them. That is if you can say it is bad luck, giving away two goal leads, throwing away leads in general isn't all down to bad luck. I guess there is some hope, but Smith does have to start making better decisions in general. Forget the budget, and everything else, just get on with what he has got and instead of feeling sorry for himself, start making better decisions.

[Optimistic]

I agree W-A-W

I know we have also played some shockers but on balance I am much happier this season than in previous ones and I do think we can turn it around.

[WFC_Rob]

We are not a million miles away, it will come good and I didn't feel like this during the last 2 seasons when it was awful to watch.

To a certain degree, that's how I feel. I said at the end of last season that if we were going to have a third successive year of struggle, I'd rather go through that with a young team trying to play football, than with a bunch of oldies with no gameplan whatsoever.

The only reservation I have is that with the youth we have comes a dearth of experience, which is increasingly likely to cost us the longer this bad run goes on.

[Ancient Moaner]

Easy to understand formula...can't score = relegation end of!

Other teams hire the likes of Cureton,Parkin,Beattie..known to score even if the rest of the team is pap.
We get Westcarr, a second rate conference bound no hoper, is he the answer? I doubt it. What we need is an Akinfenwa type of bulldozer, not an A.N. Other Midfielder who thinks he can score, but hey, this is Worsul, we can't afford anyone decent.

Better study how to beat the thugs in Division Four, cus that's where we are heading, Barnet, Burton, and Accrington Stanley, the excitement of such destinations on a wet and miserable November Saturday afternoon make the heart pound...not.

Do the decent thing Deano, you ain't making it as a manager......

I cannot reply on the other thread as it has been locked for some reason. We scored and led twice at Crawley but didn't win and we scored yesterday and didn't win. According to the reports, Hartlepool were never a threat, so you could just as easily ague that our failure to keep a clean sheet was as big a contributor as not converting chances.

I have said it in numerous threads. There are countless games we would have won or got more from had we been able to defend remotely well. Our two center backs are a real problem this season. We are missing Manny Smith far more than I anticipated. The fact we replaced him with a full back is probably one of the reasons why.

Surely, surely, surely gents, I cannot understand this relentless blaming of poor defending on our miserable current situation, I have played footy, I have also been been a ref, so I am not unaware that a good defence has consequence on results...However, as I have pointed out many times, what team will go out on a pitch (no matter HOW good thier defence is) with any confidence, if they know that thier forwards have not the faintest idea how to put that round leathery thing between the upright sticks with the netty thing behind! We may have scored two at Crawley, but NOT scoring more against Hartlepool? what was it, 20 shots, one goal.....we need a hitman..simples...give me a Cureton in my team and I would be happy to lose 6-5 with an appalling defence! We aye never gonna win anything, so lets see some goals for clip sake. Thats what will bring the fans back to the Bezza, having a great defence but drawing 0-0 0-0 0-0 is a valium diet!
Dons tin hat to be shot down again.........

[philthesaddler]

I keep saying it, it's not rocket science.

Walsall have scored 22 goals in 20 league games this season. Thats an average of 1.1 goals per game.

Walsall have conceded 30 goals in 20 league games this season. Thats an average of 1.5 goals per game.

Based on those figures, what is the most likely outcome of a game involving Walsall?

They need to score more and concede less, but to me, the scoring of goals is the real problem.

[Ancient Moaner]

I keep saying it, it's not rocket science.

Walsall have scored 22 goals in 20 league games this season. Thats an average of 1.1 goals per game.

Walsall have conceded 30 goals in 20 league games this season. Thats an average of 1.5 goals per game.

Based on those figures, what is the most likely outcome of a game involving Walsall?

They need to score more and concede less, but to me, the scoring of goals is the real problem.

Thanx Phil, agreed 100%

[chestersaddler]

I keep saying it, it's not rocket science.

Walsall have scored 22 goals in 20 league games this season. Thats an average of 1.1 goals per game.

Walsall have conceded 30 goals in 20 league games this season. Thats an average of 1.5 goals per game.

Based on those figures, what is the most likely outcome of a game involving Walsall?

They need to score more and concede less, but to me, the scoring of goals is the real problem.

Thanx Phil, agreed 100%

A couple of seasons ago, Phil used to go on about our inability to keep a clean sheet. It all boils down to the fact that we are cack - whether losing 4-3 every week or drawing 0-0, if we ain't winning then it won't be acceptable to some of our fans.

[bangsection]

Any manager deserves respect from day 1 - it is then theirs to lose, not the other way around.

Unless you are Rafa Benitez at Chelsea. Booed as he came out, "Benitez Out" banners unveiled after two minutes. I actually agree with them but it's still funny.

[Fray Bentos is God!]

Based on those figures, what is the most likely outcome of a game involving Walsall?

1.1-1.5?

[saddlerken]

We are not a million miles away, it will come good and I didn't feel like this during the last 2 seasons when it was awful to watch.

To a certain degree, that's how I feel. I said at the end of last season that if we were going to have a third successive year of struggle, I'd rather go through that with a young team trying to play football, than with a bunch of oldies with no gameplan whatsoever.

Sorry, can't let this one lie. 2 points.

1- There are plenty of alternatives to the very small amount of potential Walsall teams you have listed.

2- I absolutely cannot abide this notion that we are 'playing the right way'. So we 'keep the ball on the ground', sometimes. So bloody what? It's ineffective, narrow, one dimensional, tactic-less, dreamy, fluffy rubbish.

Absolutely sick of this. Dean Smith is still the luckiest managers that we have ever had. Only Ray Graydon was given more excuses from the faithful for his alleged failures and Graydon actually was a good manager who had success.

Even after not winning since September, he's still getting a break.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

Easy to understand formula...can't score = relegation end of!

Other teams hire the likes of Cureton,Parkin,Beattie..known to score even if the rest of the team is pap.
We get Westcarr, a second rate conference bound no hoper, is he the answer? I doubt it. What we need is an Akinfenwa type of bulldozer, not an A.N. Other Midfielder who thinks he can score, but hey, this is Worsul, we can't afford anyone decent.

Better study how to beat the thugs in Division Four, cus that's where we are heading, Barnet, Burton, and Accrington Stanley, the excitement of such destinations on a wet and miserable November Saturday afternoon make the heart pound...not.

Do the decent thing Deano, you ain't making it as a manager......

I cannot reply on the other thread as it has been locked for some reason. We scored and led twice at Crawley but didn't win and we scored yesterday and didn't win. According to the reports, Hartlepool were never a threat, so you could just as easily ague that our failure to keep a clean sheet was as big a contributor as not converting chances.

I have said it in numerous threads. There are countless games we would have won or got more from had we been able to defend remotely well. Our two center backs are a real problem this season. We are missing Manny Smith far more than I anticipated. The fact we replaced him with a full back is probably one of the reasons why.

Surely, surely, surely gents, I cannot understand this relentless blaming of poor defending on our miserable current situation, I have played footy, I have also been been a ref, so I am not unaware that a good defence has consequence on results...However, as I have pointed out many times, what team will go out on a pitch (no matter HOW good thier defence is) with any confidence, if they know that thier forwards have not the faintest idea how to put that round leathery thing between the upright sticks with the netty thing behind! We may have scored two at Crawley, but NOT scoring more against Hartlepool? what was it, 20 shots, one goal.....we need a hitman..simples...give me a Cureton in my team and I would be happy to lose 6-5 with an appalling defence! We aye never gonna win anything, so lets see some goals for clip sake. Thats what will bring the fans back to the Bezza, having a great defence but drawing 0-0 0-0 0-0 is a valium diet!
Dons tin hat to be shot down again.........

Best get Merson back down here then, bet you was one of the droolers who backed him to the very end. Maybe you just don't watch us often enough to see our defending ? Or lack of it. Obviously scoring more goals would help, but I am telling you right now, it is far easier for a manager to tighten up the defence, than it is to find a 15-20 goal a season goalscorer. Reminds me of Chris Nicholl being abused, " We need a striker" the Walsall faithful shouted with anger. So he signed Adrian Viveash, and the rest was history.

[DYSaddler]

I agree W-A-W

I do think we can turn it around.

Yes, so do I but the million dollar question is, how long will it take and will it be too late?

[Willenhall Saddler]

I would not like to call this one. Just as likely to be a comfortable 2-0 win as it is to be a 0-1 defeat.

I am sure it will be an awful crowd though. I'd guess at 2875 with about 79 Monkey hangers in attendance.

Do we have around 1600 season ticket holders? I can't see many pay on the day's for this one given the last 3 home games.

Turns out because of the offer, it was our highest of the season :shock:

[Willenhall Saddler]

Easy to understand formula...can't score = relegation end of!

Other teams hire the likes of Cureton,Parkin,Beattie..known to score even if the rest of the team is pap.
We get Westcarr, a second rate conference bound no hoper, is he the answer? I doubt it. What we need is an Akinfenwa type of bulldozer, not an A.N. Other Midfielder who thinks he can score, but hey, this is Worsul, we can't afford anyone decent.

Better study how to beat the thugs in Division Four, cus that's where we are heading, Barnet, Burton, and Accrington Stanley, the excitement of such destinations on a wet and miserable November Saturday afternoon make the heart pound...not.

Do the decent thing Deano, you ain't making it as a manager......

I cannot reply on the other thread as it has been locked for some reason. We scored and led twice at Crawley but didn't win and we scored yesterday and didn't win. According to the reports, Hartlepool were never a threat, so you could just as easily ague that our failure to keep a clean sheet was as big a contributor as not converting chances.

Well that was Hemmings fault for having a backpass fetish

[Optimistic]

We are not a million miles away, it will come good and I didn't feel like this during the last 2 seasons when it was awful to watch.

To a certain degree, that's how I feel. I said at the end of last season that if we were going to have a third successive year of struggle, I'd rather go through that with a young team trying to play football, than with a bunch of oldies with no gameplan whatsoever.

Sorry, can't let this one lie. 2 points.

1- There are plenty of alternatives to the very small amount of potential Walsall teams you have listed.

2- I absolutely cannot abide this notion that we are 'playing the right way'. So we 'keep the ball on the ground', sometimes. So bloody what? It's ineffective, narrow, one dimensional, tactic-less, dreamy, fluffy rubbish.

Absolutely sick of this. Dean Smith is still the luckiest managers that we have ever had. Only Ray Graydon was given more excuses from the faithful for his alleged failures and Graydon actually was a good manager who had success.

Even after not winning since September, he's still getting a break.

Fair comment but..

Point 1 - The last 2 seasons were the most recent

Point 2 - I don't think 10 shots on target & 10 shots off target is ineffective

and now a point 3 - As far as I am concerned the jury is still out with Smith and only time will tell but that is mainly because I would like to tweak the team selection and subs. But so would we all, we all think we could do better than the manager when we are not winning. However, I think he needs a chance and for all anyone wants to huff & puff about it, he is here for a while and certainly for the rest of this season.

[IHTC.]

Easy to understand formula...can't score = relegation end of!

Other teams hire the likes of Cureton,Parkin,Beattie..known to score even if the rest of the team is pap.
We get Westcarr, a second rate conference bound no hoper, is he the answer? I doubt it. What we need is an Akinfenwa type of bulldozer, not an A.N. Other Midfielder who thinks he can score, but hey, this is Worsul, we can't afford anyone decent.

Better study how to beat the thugs in Division Four, cus that's where we are heading, Barnet, Burton, and Accrington Stanley, the excitement of such destinations on a wet and miserable November Saturday afternoon make the heart pound...not.

Do the decent thing Deano, you ain't making it as a manager......

I cannot reply on the other thread as it has been locked for some reason. We scored and led twice at Crawley but didn't win and we scored yesterday and didn't win. According to the reports, Hartlepool were never a threat, so you could just as easily ague that our failure to keep a clean sheet was as big a contributor as not converting chances.

Well that was Hemmings fault for having a backpass fetish

Everything is Hemmings fault period just for the fact that he wears gloves and short sleeved shirts, figure that 1 out.....those poor donnies of his

[latviancheese]

Anyone would have thought we had lost and been relegated.

Its wuss than a 40 year old cat loving lunatic with the menopause on here. :lol:

[Graydon48]

I keep saying it, it's not rocket science.

Walsall have scored 22 goals in 20 league games this season. Thats an average of 1.1 goals per game.

Walsall have conceded 30 goals in 20 league games this season. Thats an average of 1.5 goals per game.

Based on those figures, what is the most likely outcome of a game involving Walsall?

They need to score more and concede less, but to me, the scoring of goals is the real problem.

Thanks Phil. I would never had worked that out.