Lincoln City (H) F A Cup First Round Reply Tuesday 13/11/12

[Bernie]

Can't blame this one on the budget. Lincoln must spend less than us. If I owned the club, Smith would be sacked for this series of results. In fact I would have sacked him after the embarrassment of Scunthorpe and put Richard O'Kelly in charge.

Are you serious? That would be like when the Wolves sacked Mick McCarthy and put Terry Connor in charge. More of the same only worse.

If a club is doing well and the manager gets poached by another club (something that has never happened at Walsall) there might be a case for giving the job to the second in command. If the club is doing badly then it is insanity to give the job to the person in charge of coaching.

[Asps]

Can't blame this one on the budget. Lincoln must spend less than us. If I owned the club, Smith would be sacked for this series of results. In fact I would have sacked him after the embarrassment of Scunthorpe and put Richard O'Kelly in charge.

Are you serious? That would be like when the Wolves sacked Mick McCarthy and put Terry Connor in charge. More of the same only worse.

If a club is doing well and the manager gets poached by another club (something that has never happened at Walsall) there might be a case for giving the job to the second in command. If the club is doing badly then it is insanity to give the job to the person in charge of coaching.

Ditto, grey O'Onesey is a pedigreed loser

[4143]

I'd rather lose and play well than win and play badly. Fortunately in the long term winning and playing well should go together anyway.

Of course in an important game, e.g. cup final I'd take the results over the performance, but you get my drift.

I understand what you've said, but I think you're mixing your words up a bit. You seem to think changing tactics to utilise players' physicality inherently represents 'playing badly'. Our squad doesn't have physicality to utilise, I know, and that's where being streetwise comes in. We need the personnel available to be able to switch from tiki-taka to something a bit more direct. Smith really ought to have known this, it's management 101 in any division, but especially in League One.

The ideology of only playing a passing game is admirable but ultimately naive. To be able to pull it off you need players who can really pull it off - we aren't in a position to do that.

[aaaae]

Can't blame this one on the budget. Lincoln must spend less than us. If I owned the club, Smith would be sacked for this series of results. In fact I would have sacked him after the embarrassment of Scunthorpe and put Richard O'Kelly in charge.

Are you serious? That would be like when the Wolves sacked Mick McCarthy and put Terry Connor in charge. More of the same only worse.

If a club is doing well and the manager gets poached by another club (something that has never happened at Walsall) there might be a case for giving the job to the second in command. If the club is doing badly then it is insanity to give the job to the person in charge of coaching.

Ditto, grey O'Onesey is a pedigreed loser

How can you get worse than being thrashed at home by 10 men, then getting knocked out of the cup by a team two divisions below you.

[yoda]

The ideology of only playing a passing game is admirable but ultimately naive. To be able to pull it off you need players who can really pull it off - we aren't in a position to do that.

Theres also the notion that only a passing game constitutes 'playing well'. I know some people (myself included) can find entertainment in a team that has a game plan and executes it to absolute perfection. If this plan involves long balls and/or absorbing pressure to counter-attack then the supporters would be within their rights to question the entertainment value of this plan, though by definition it would be 'playing well' as it is strictly adhering to the plan.

Of course all these comes before you start to think of the idea that if you are winning games, you are by definition playing well. The aim of the game is to win, so if you win you are playing the game well.

[latviancheese]

Let's stop blaming the budget for the massive drop in form. The fact is, we were playing some good football, which was, in the main, getting us some positive results. Now the same group of players, led by the same manager, have stopped doing that. You can blame the budget for us having a small squad, but that small squad was managing just fine only a matter of weeks ago.

The players believed their own hype.

[Bernie]

How can you get worse than being thrashed at home by 10 men, then getting knocked out of the cup by a team two divisions below you.

The Wolves fans thought that four successive home defeats culminating in a 5-1 thrashing by West Brom meant that things could not get worse if they sacked McCarthy and appointed Terry Connor.

They were wrong.

[WFC_Rob]

Let's stop blaming the budget for the massive drop in form. The fact is, we were playing some good football, which was, in the main, getting us some positive results. Now the same group of players, led by the same manager, have stopped doing that. You can blame the budget for us having a small squad, but that small squad was managing just fine only a matter of weeks ago.

The players believed their own hype.

They may well have done, but that shouldn't have been the cause of such a massive drop in form.

Somewhere on this board back in July/August I said my one fear for the season was that this group of players would struggle to manage over the winter months, when pitches get heavy, opposition get more physical, and, due to their youth, they have no experience or reference point to refer back to in order to dig themselves out of a rut. Well, that rut has happened and it pains me to have been proven right.

We need to freshen the squad up and I don't necessarily think we need any world-beaters. We just need a couple of seasoned pros who have played at this level before. I remember when we brought in Marvin Robinson a few years ago - bang average footballer, but nicked a couple of goals and gave us a bit of fresh impetus for a short time. For now, I'll take someone who can offer that or something similar.

[latviancheese]

Let's stop blaming the budget for the massive drop in form. The fact is, we were playing some good football, which was, in the main, getting us some positive results. Now the same group of players, led by the same manager, have stopped doing that. You can blame the budget for us having a small squad, but that small squad was managing just fine only a matter of weeks ago.

The players believed their own hype.

They may well have done, but that shouldn't have been the cause of such a massive drop in form.

Somewhere on this board back in July/August I said my one fear for the season was that this group of players would struggle to manage over the winter months, when pithces get heavy, opposition get more physical, and, due to their youth, they have no experience or reference point to refer back to in order to dig themselves out of a rut. Well, that rut has happened and it pains me to have been proven right.

We need to freshen the squad up and I don't necessarily think we need any world-beaters. We just need a couple of seasoned pros who have played at this level before. I remember when we brought in Marvin Robinson a few years ago - bang average footballer, but nicked a couple of goals and gave us a bit of fresh impetus for a short time. For now, I'll take someone who can offer that or something similar.

I agree with that. He wont sign a striker though will he. He could at least use Williams, but no.

[WFC_Rob]

Let's stop blaming the budget for the massive drop in form. The fact is, we were playing some good football, which was, in the main, getting us some positive results. Now the same group of players, led by the same manager, have stopped doing that. You can blame the budget for us having a small squad, but that small squad was managing just fine only a matter of weeks ago.

The players believed their own hype.

They may well have done, but that shouldn't have been the cause of such a massive drop in form.

Somewhere on this board back in July/August I said my one fear for the season was that this group of players would struggle to manage over the winter months, when pithces get heavy, opposition get more physical, and, due to their youth, they have no experience or reference point to refer back to in order to dig themselves out of a rut. Well, that rut has happened and it pains me to have been proven right.

We need to freshen the squad up and I don't necessarily think we need any world-beaters. We just need a couple of seasoned pros who have played at this level before. I remember when we brought in Marvin Robinson a few years ago - bang average footballer, but nicked a couple of goals and gave us a bit of fresh impetus for a short time. For now, I'll take someone who can offer that or something similar.

I agree with that. He wont sign a striker though will he. He could at least use Williams, but no.

Williams looked half decent when he came on last night. I say that on the basis that he jumped whenever we aimed a long ball in his general direction, which is more than Bowerman and Brandy were able to do.

[m&m]

Williams is not the answer --yet at least. He came on at Shrews and missed a sitter to equalise then missed a decent half chance with the last kick of the game last night to undeservedly take the game to pens.

[wednesburysaddler]

what about getting rid of okelly and bringing in chris nicholl to work along deano

just maybe 2 defender managers could stop the leaking of goals which is now becoming a problem

9 goals conceded in 3 home games in a week is not acceptable so id start by concentrating on plugging the defence before i worried about anything else

walker to start saturday a must might as well throw him in and give him a go cant get much worse can it???

[IHTC.]

I think that has to be the first time and probably last time I will ever see a goal (thats if it was) not celebrated by the scoring teams fans.

[aaaae]

How can you get worse than being thrashed at home by 10 men, then getting knocked out of the cup by a team two divisions below you.

The Wolves fans thought that four successive home defeats culminating in a 5-1 thrashing by West Brom meant that things could not get worse if they sacked McCarthy and appointed Terry Connor.

They were wrong.

Utterly fatuous comparison.

[Bernie]

Utterly fatuous comparison.

Not a valid argument in support of your position.

It would be total insanity for the club to appoint Smith's right hand man, who has been totally involved in gathering the squad and organising the tactics. It was insanity for the Wolves board to appoint Terry Connor because he was just a poor man's Mick McCarthy who was going to carry on with McCarthy's policies. The Wolves fans thought that anyone would be an improvement on McCarthy but they were wrong.

[WFC_Rob]

If you are going to replace your manager - which I don't think for a second we are - you go for a fresh voice and someone with fresh ideas. The Walsall board of directors has made some baffling decisions over the years, but I don't think O'Kelly will step into the hot seat when Smith is eventually replaced.

[saddlerken]

I would happily appoint someone from non league who is managing a winning team on a comparatively small budget.

There is no need to appoint a has been who's is just going through the motions.

The interviewing process must be methodical and intelligent, not like it is now.

[aaaae]

Utterly fatuous comparison.

Not a valid argument in support of your position.

It would be total insanity for the club to appoint Smith's right hand man, who has been totally involved in gathering the squad and organising the tactics. It was insanity for the Wolves board to appoint Terry Connor because he was just a poor man's Mick McCarthy who was going to carry on with McCarthy's policies. The Wolves fans thought that anyone would be an improvement on McCarthy but they were wrong.

Your argument that appointing someone from within cannot ever work because "Terry Connor" is ridiculous. I'll see your "Terry Connor" and raise you a "Chris Hughton".

[EvenFlow]

Calm enough to post now... I barely slept last night in anger, equal parts team performance, and the fact that I rearranged certain real-life aspects of the week to be there, and made the journey- sans-dinner- immediately after a long, difficult day at work; a commitment greeted by at least half the players in red strutting around turf for 2 hours displaying not a jot of passion or fight. That is what truly hurts.

On the subject of Williams, his 50 minute turn highlighted perfectly two things that should have been plainly obvious to Smith many weeks ago. I thought he put himself about well, won flick ons, held the ball up better than anyone else ever looked like doing, and despite not looking like scoring, caused Lincoln a few problems. Surely his appearance finally rammed it home to our management that 1) That is the kind of forward we're desperately screaming out for, and 2) the fact that his best turn to date has come against a Conference club proves that he needs to be on a long term loan at that level (Kiddy, Tamworth, wherever), gaining competitive experience, so he can be that man for us 18 months down the line, as he's far too raw for third tier football at present.

I don't think any blame for the fiasco can be laid at Benning's door, and I'd say that for his performance even if he were a seasoned professional. He did the simple things well, supported our rare attacks effectively, and generally looked a good prospect. The rest of them (bar maybe Brandy- travesty to take him off, and if he hadn't tried so hard to stay on his feet in the box at the start of the 2nd half....) were varying levels of absolute shambles.

I suppose it's harsh to blame Taundry too much, because by now we all know what we're getting with him: plenty huff & puff, very little quality and no football brain. It took Lincoln all of ten minutes to suss his oh-too-predictable movement of hug the touchline and drop short.

I was particularly disappointed by the Chambers brothers. With their wealth of league experience, they're the kind of players you'd expect to take a game by the scruff of the neck in such circumstances, and show the younger players the way. But no..... passengers, the pair of them.

[Whitters]

What if we took a team which has been in this division and gone on to success as a model?
Maybe Stoke - big, bad, experienced, super-streetwise, inexpensive.
The old timers talk about legend-like players like George Kirby, George Andrews, Bernie Wright - big, bad, experienced, super-streetwise, inexpensive.
Let Liverpool spend a fortune on players to pass the ball around until you fall asleep, I'd sooner be big, bad, experienced, super-streetwise, inexpensive.
You can suss out tika-taka and negate it.
You can suss out big, bad, experienced, super-streetwise, inexpensive but can't stop it.

Don't the powers that be realise that every week we lose and Smith is in charge the fans lose interest and the other managers look on in wonder?
And when he goes, they all have to go.

[Worsul]

What if we took a team which has been in this division and gone on to success as a model?
Maybe Stoke - big, bad, experienced, super-streetwise, inexpensive.
The old timers talk about legend-like players like George Kirby, George Andrews, Bernie Wright - big, bad, experienced, super-streetwise, inexpensive.
Let Liverpool spend a fortune on players to pass the ball around until you fall asleep, I'd sooner be big, bad, experienced, super-streetwise, inexpensive.
You can suss out tika-taka and negate it.
You can suss out big, bad, experienced, super-streetwise, inexpensive but can't stop it.

Don't the powers that be realise that every week we lose and Smith is in charge the fans lose interest and the other managers look on in wonder?
And when he goes, they all have to go.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but if you view playing like the way Stoke did to get to the premiership as a role model, then you have no soul.

If physicality wins you more matches than technique, either the ref ain't doing his job or the rules need changing and we should all go and watch rugby instead.

[Worsul]

What if we took a team which has been in this division and gone on to success as a model?
Maybe Stoke - big, bad, experienced, super-streetwise, inexpensive.
The old timers talk about legend-like players like George Kirby, George Andrews, Bernie Wright - big, bad, experienced, super-streetwise, inexpensive.
Let Liverpool spend a fortune on players to pass the ball around until you fall asleep, I'd sooner be big, bad, experienced, super-streetwise, inexpensive.
You can suss out tika-taka and negate it.
You can suss out big, bad, experienced, super-streetwise, inexpensive but can't stop it.

Don't the powers that be realise that every week we lose and Smith is in charge the fans lose interest and the other managers look on in wonder?
And when he goes, they all have to go.

oh, and if everyone can suss out Tiki taka how come Spain have won the last 3 major international tournaments.

Others have made the point we dont have the personnel to do the same. That's a valid criticism. Personally I think with proper coaching and enough willingness from the players we could be moderately successful.

[belgiansaddler]

What if we took a team which has been in this division and gone on to success as a model?
Maybe Stoke - big, bad, experienced, super-streetwise, inexpensive.
The old timers talk about legend-like players like George Kirby, George Andrews, Bernie Wright - big, bad, experienced, super-streetwise, inexpensive.
Let Liverpool spend a fortune on players to pass the ball around until you fall asleep, I'd sooner be big, bad, experienced, super-streetwise, inexpensive.
You can suss out tika-taka and negate it.
You can suss out big, bad, experienced, super-streetwise, inexpensive but can't stop it.

Don't the powers that be realise that every week we lose and Smith is in charge the fans lose interest and the other managers look on in wonder?
And when he goes, they all have to go.

God it pains me to say this but I agree to a certain extent (dont worry it wont happen again :D ). Tippy tappy football needs first a purpose ie to actually be getting somewhere and not passing for the sake of it and second a plan B to be able to mix it up if need be. At the moment we have neither

[Pedagogue]

I don't like to point this out but I've attended all of our cup defeats by non-League teams since the FA Cup resumed in its present form in 1946 - Peterborough United (1959), Yeovil Town (1960 & 1991) and Slough Town (2004). Am I a jinx? Don't answer that! :mrgreen:

You went then I presume, Ped?

Yup, I certainly did! :evil:
At least I'm consistent!

[belgiansaddler]

Can I make a suggestion for the next time we draw a non league club Pedagogue? Go out for the day with Geoff or Tuncy FFS :D

[Pedagogue]

Can I make a suggestion for the next time we draw a non-League club, Pedagogue? Go out for the day with Geoff or Tuncy FFS :D

I have also seen us win against Leytonstone, St.Neots, St.Albans, Dagenham, Kettering, Stafford Rangers, Telford United, Aylesbury, Northwich Victoria, Lincoln United and Gresley Rovers!

[belgiansaddler]

I saw 6 or 7 of those, gulp :D

[oldimpsfan]

Let's stop blaming the budget for the massive drop in form. The fact is, we were playing some good football, which was, in the main, getting us some positive results. Now the same group of players, led by the same manager, have stopped doing that. You can blame the budget for us having a small squad, but that small squad was managing just fine only a matter of weeks ago.

Can't blame this one on the budget. Lincoln must spend less than us. If I owned the club, Smith would be sacked for this series of results. In fact I would have sacked him after the embarrassment of Scunthorpe and put Richard O'Kelly in charge.

In my world, I think we would have won last night.

If your players had played to the top level of the skill you would probably have demolished us. Our budget is tiny even by the standards of Lincoln City when it was in the Football League. There's no mass talent with our lot - Taylor and Boyce are good and our keeper - but few other stand out stars. What we have (and for the first time since the reign of Keith Alexander) is a COMMITTED TEAM who will put their bodies on the line and who, as you all saw, do not give up against another late equaliser. We have not had this for years.

Whether it is the wrong manager/wrong group of players I cannot say but I can tell you that Lincoln City are in the Conference and not the Football League precisely because of several such combinations (and Tilson had a good track record with Southend). Don't ask me what the formula is because I have no idea.

Is it motivation? Manager personality/player personality just "clicking" (or not, as the case may be). Hopefully you will pick yourselves up after your decent start to the season. Good wishes to you all for the rest of the season. I know it feels bad but it feels even worse to be a "Football League" club in the Conference alongside all those former FL clubs still struggling to get out of it.

[impyyy]

http://youtu.be/2jWREdHYgeY

get this trending on twitter! #itsagoalmichael haha

[belgiansaddler]

Let's stop blaming the budget for the massive drop in form. The fact is, we were playing some good football, which was, in the main, getting us some positive results. Now the same group of players, led by the same manager, have stopped doing that. You can blame the budget for us having a small squad, but that small squad was managing just fine only a matter of weeks ago.

Can't blame this one on the budget. Lincoln must spend less than us. If I owned the club, Smith would be sacked for this series of results. In fact I would have sacked him after the embarrassment of Scunthorpe and put Richard O'Kelly in charge.

In my world, I think we would have won last night.

If your players had played to the top level of the skill you would probably have demolished us. Our budget is tiny even by the standards of Lincoln City when it was in the Football League. There's no mass talent with our lot - Taylor and Boyce are good and our keeper - but few other stand out stars. What we have (and for the first time since the reign of Keith Alexander) is a COMMITTED TEAM who will put their bodies on the line and who, as you all saw, do not give up against another late equaliser. We have not had this for years.

Whether it is the wrong manager/wrong group of players I cannot say but I can tell you that Lincoln City are in the Conference and not the Football League precisely because of several such combinations (and Tilson had a good track record with Southend). Don't ask me what the formula is because I have no idea.

Is it motivation? Manager personality/player personality just "clicking" (or not, as the case may be). Hopefully you will pick yourselves up after your decent start to the season. Good wishes to you all for the rest of the season. I know it feels bad but it feels even worse to be a "Football League" club in the Conference alongside all those former FL clubs still struggling to get out of it.

Cant disagree with any of that. Clearly over the 2 legs you deserved it. You lot have gone through the mill, unfortunately it's a mill I can see us going through in next couple of years. Anyhow all the best for round 2 3 4 and 5 :D