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Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Reports and reaction from the 2012-2013 season as Walsall finished 9th in League 1
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King Crimson
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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:04 am

WFC_Rob wrote:One bad result is an excusable bad day at the office. Two home defeats in the space of five days however, suggests there's something genuinely wrong.

Again, we didn't play that badly, but we did seem to get completely sussed out by a decent looking Carlisle side. They didn't give us a moment's piece to play our passing game, and had players who looked mobile and hungry - in essence, they were better at the things we've been praised for this season.

Our goal was an absolutely fantastic team goal to score. The way we worked the ball wide before picking out the perfect ball into the box, Boweman's dummy to lay things on a plate and Paterson's finish were all absolutely spot-on, and I thought we'd kick on from there. What actually happened was, they came back fighting and we had no response. Granted, a brilliant save by their 'keeper to keep Bowerman's one-on-one out probably kept them in it, but we didn't do enough to build up some momentum.

Garner and Cademarteri gave Butler and Holden a really tough afternoon with their movement and were always on the go. To add to our woes, Robson on their left tore us apart at times - hence the need to bring Purkiss off at half time. Their goal was a poor goal to give away in that Purkiss and Holden failed to make a routine clearance and they got the ball in to allow Garner to do what he does best.

What summed their approach up was the number of times the normally neat and tidy Featherstone gave the ball away. We were our own worst enemies at times by having two strikers who didn't offer enough movement and by trying to play football in our third of the pitch, but they did play a good pressing game and we struggled to play around them.

What lost the game for me was Smith's substitutions. Again, we'd struggled to control things in midfield, yet rather than going 4-5-1 with Baxendale and Cuvelier a bit more free to get forward in support of Bowerman, Smith swapped Baxendale for Hemmings, which meant our struggling system had to remain the same. He then took off our only goal threat for Brandy, who's never going to score against a side whose defensive line has reverted back to the edge of their own penalty area.

Our squad lacks any kind of depth and we looked much worse when Hemmings and Brandy came on, as much as I hate to say it. To make matters worse, Hemmings attitude frankly stank - he'd put the effort in once the ball was at his feet, but spent the rest of the time sauntering around, with no desire to track his man and help out when Carlisle looked to break forward. For a player who was dropped not so long ago, we need him going out there and looking to win his place back, not sulking about like a prima dona.

The injury time winner was always likely given the way we seemed to allow every one of our attacks to stutter and break down, allowing them to break forward at will.

People will undoubtedly argue that we should play 4-4-2 as it's a more attacking setup, but the truth is, it doesn't work with the players we have at our disposal. We need Cuvelier to have the freedom to hurt teams in the middle, and we need Baxendale to be able to offer more than he can as a wide midfielder, which won't happen in such a rigid 4-4-2 where both have to be very disciplined. Grigg played well today, but as the least threatening of the two strikers, should be sacrificed to allow us to go back to running games in midfield. Chambers' return should help that, so hopefully he's back and fighting fit sooner rather than later.

So all in all, a hugely disappointing week. Smith needs to remind himself of what impressed so much at the start of the season and revert to allowing his team to play to its strengths.

This is a really excellent summing up.

Hemmings should appreciate the opportunity he has. He appears to be a bit of a champagne charlie rather than a player drinking in the last chance saloon.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:51 am

Walsall_Casual wrote:One to forget, never got going.

Looking forward to moving on to Vale on Tuesday and the big one on Saturday. I want to be bringing maximum points home from Wales!


Don't go to Shrewsbury on Saturday. :)

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:57 am

I think at the minute, everybody has to calm the bloody hell down a bit. We are 11th, 2 points from 6th having played a vast portion of our matches against top half teams (7/11) This is a good thing. Our problem has been that we have had expectations raised and then dashed by two middling teams. They did their homework and closed us down, this meant that we couldn't get any of our passing together. We have also been playing a lot of 4-4-2 lately and that, in a way, has made us predictable. We still do need a burly striker to be able to change things, but it's more of a priority to get Chambers back into the team which means we can go wider with Purkiss, Hemmings, Paterson and Taylor without worrying about the counter as much.

I see a lot of worrying about Hemmings, I don't think he's cack or lazy, I just think he's tailor made for 4-2-3-1 rather than 4-4-2. Which Chambers allows.

To me, the booers can fudge off. We've tried to change our entire style of play inside a preseason. What cannot be allowed to happen is that the booers pressure Smith and O'Kelly into changing back to our old hoofball style. 1: Because it's cack and 2: Because we really haven't got the players to go back to it. We have to face up to the fact that some teams are going to do us.

Shall we just keep our chins up for a little while longer and appreciate what is trying to happen?

cack loss yesterday and Tuesday, but I'm fudge if anyone is going to tell me it's not infinitely more enjoyable than last year.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:07 am

Can agree with much of that, FBIG. However, it doesn't matter what formation we play when it comes to tracking back, trying to regain possession when you've lost it, or trying to create space for others through making runs off the ball.

Hemmings, who only had 30 minutes to play, didn't work anything like hard enough when he didn't have the ball as far as I'm concerned. This left our full back exposed.

By all means play Hemmings in a five man midfield with Featherstone and Chambers shoring up the middle, Cuvelier in front, Paterson on the right and Hemmings or Baxendale on the left (the latter could also play alongside Featherstone in my view).

Hemmings just didn't do enough to lift an ailing team. He needs to prove he's better than Baxendale, but at the moment he's way behind.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:14 am

Hemmings hid from the ball in a way I havn't seen since Jaimie Lawrence, when Taylor got the ball at left back Hemmings drifted inside and 'marked' a Carlise player - this wasn't once or twice, this was every time. It's either Attitude (he's got one) or Confidence (he's hasn't got any). If it's the former he needs a spell in the reserves to knock this out of him

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:26 am

NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD wrote:
Walsall_Casual wrote:One to forget, never got going.

Looking forward to moving on to Vale on Tuesday and the big one on Saturday. I want to be bringing maximum points home from Wales!


Don't go to Shrewsbury on Saturday. :)


More beer time. :D

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:33 am

I disagree totally with the criticism of Hemmings.

Yet another game lost thanks to a bad mistake by a goalkeeper. While Holden was also responsible he would not have been able to give Carlisle a goal without help from terrible play by Darlow.

Having got rid of a lot of dead wood during the summer, it is disappointing to be reminded that Taundry is still on the books, and that he may even be back in the starting line-up before long.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:35 am

Walsall_Casual wrote:One to forget, never got going.

Looking forward to moving on to Vale on Tuesday and the big one on Saturday. I want to be bringing maximum points home from Wales!


Just to clarify - by all means go to Shrewsbury on Saturday, it will give you an extra 24hrs boozing time, but the game is scheduled for a 3.30pm kick-off on Sunday. :wink:

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:23 pm

Bernie wrote:I disagree totally with the criticism of Hemmings.

Yet another game lost thanks to a bad mistake by a goalkeeper. While Holden was also responsible he would not have been able to give Carlisle a goal without help from terrible play by Darlow.

Having got rid of a lot of dead wood during the summer, it is disappointing to be reminded that Taundry is still on the books, and that he may even be back in the starting line-up before long.

You disagree about Hemmings because....

Agree about Taundry though. Was always a nearly player, and fortunately we've moved on from his mediocrity. Him finding his way back into the team would be a retrograde step.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:03 pm

Saw Hemmings on Tuesday and he looked good in the short period he was on the pitch. Always wanted the ball, ran at the opposition, crossed well and nearly set up the equaliser with a quick free-kick from which Purkiss hit the post. So it's not uncommon for Walsall fans to slate an young winger after a sloppy show for being inconsistent. I assume the criticism of Paterson must have got a bit boring, so it's nice to have a new target, I suppose.

Incidentally, I don't think anyone expected Baxendale to be keeping Hemmings out the team at all when he first signed. So surely the competition for places is a good thing, right? And who knows what Connor Taylor, Paul Downing or James Chambers could offer if/when they're given a chance, not to mention Jones, George, Benning or Morris.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:21 pm

King Crimson wrote:
Bernie wrote:I disagree totally with the criticism of Hemmings.

Yet another game lost thanks to a bad mistake by a goalkeeper. While Holden was also responsible he would not have been able to give Carlisle a goal without help from terrible play by Darlow.

Having got rid of a lot of dead wood during the summer, it is disappointing to be reminded that Taundry is still on the books, and that he may even be back in the starting line-up before long.

You disagree about Hemmings because....

Agree about Taundry though. Was always a nearly player, and fortunately we've moved on from his mediocrity. Him finding his way back into the team would be a retrograde step.


He's one of our own :roll:

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:23 pm

ihatethecorps wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Bernie wrote:I disagree totally with the criticism of Hemmings.

Yet another game lost thanks to a bad mistake by a goalkeeper. While Holden was also responsible he would not have been able to give Carlisle a goal without help from terrible play by Darlow.

Having got rid of a lot of dead wood during the summer, it is disappointing to be reminded that Taundry is still on the books, and that he may even be back in the starting line-up before long.

You disagree about Hemmings because....

Agree about Taundry though. Was always a nearly player, and fortunately we've moved on from his mediocrity. Him finding his way back into the team would be a retrograde step.


He's one of our own :roll:


Indeed.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:38 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:Saw Hemmings on Tuesday and he looked good in the short period he was on the pitch. Always wanted the ball, ran at the opposition, crossed well and nearly set up the equaliser with a quick free-kick from which Purkiss hit the post. So it's not uncommon for Walsall fans to slate an young winger after a sloppy show for being inconsistent. I assume the criticism of Paterson must have got a bit boring, so it's nice to have a new target, I suppose.

It's not about having a new target at all - it's about seeing a player fail to put the required effort in. I actually like Hemmings and still think he'll probably be the long term answer on the left wing, but the sauntering around and the hiding from the ball is a complete contrast to his previous performances.

As for the comments on us all needing to calm down etc, of course we should still be chuffed with the progress we've made since last season. But that's not to say we shouldn't be disappointed about losing home games against Orient and Carlisle. The fact is, Leage One is wide open and with a few minor changes here and there, we ought to be able to establish ourselves closer to the top than the bottom.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:56 pm

King Crimson wrote:You disagree about Hemmings because.... .


I did not see him "hiding" any more than Baxendale or Paterson were hiding. I think he works hard, and has the pace and skill to create chances.

Hemmings arrival came at the same time that Andy Taylor ran right out of steam. I am a big fan of Taylor, but for some reason, whether it was through an injury or just lack of fitness I don't know, he had nothing to give during the last twenty minutes on Saturday.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:45 pm

I think Taylor took a knock.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:59 pm

Sky Sports highlights of the game - http://www.skysports.com/video/inline/0 ... 05,00.html

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:08 am

Im not sure how people can defend the likes of Grigg, yet get behind the whole "cack on Taundry" bandwagon, make your minds up.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:02 am

latviancheese wrote:Im not sure how people can defend the likes of Grigg, yet get behind the whole "guano on Taundry" bandwagon, make your minds up.


Taundry is now in his sixth season as a first team player and has so far made 179 appearances. He is easily our longest serving current outfield player, so I think that we have a pretty good idea of his abilities.

His career with Walsall since 2007 has coincided with a period when we have played very poor football. We know what we will get from him - 100% effort; frequent involvement in the game; lack of time on the ball; and erratic end product. If Taundry is good enough to get into the side then that will be a step backwards.

I am always prepared to give more time to young forwards, although there does come a time when you have to say enough is enough. If Grigg is still here in two season's time without ever scoring 10 goals a season then I will not be defending him.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:45 am

The constant Taundry bashing is nearly as embarrassing as Dancing Kev now. He could be from Blyth and support Prestatyn Town for all I care. When he came on on Saturday on he was an improvement on Purkiss and his first half performance without question. Give him a break, jokers.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:03 am

I haven't posted for a while as I have been busy at work but seen almost all of the games since.

We cannot play 442 with Grigg and Bowerman - we can carry one of them, but not two. Grigg had a great game Saturday, but all of his good work was not in the box. I know he helped initiate the goal, but over a season I would rather have a striker playing in the box. Bowerman is that 'sort' of striker, but he goes missing sometimes and this is because he is still young and learning. This is why a front 'two' of Grigg and Bowerman is not working - we can't carry both. I can't remember many instances where Grigg has actually had a shot in the last two games, he needs to get himself in the box.

The answer, of course, is to revert back to 4231 when Chambers comes back. Push Flo up to play behind the central striker, with Baxendale and Hemmings on the sides with either GB or Grigg up front.

Paterson has had mostly a shocker all season - this again is because he is young and cannot expected to be performing miracles. We need some more experience in the wide areas (loan signing?). The amount of times he has given the ball away needlessly in the last two games is frightening. The most amusing point on Saturday was the fact he was given the MOTM somehow where he was probably our worst player (on the day).

I thought Featherstone was outstanding on Saturday, however the problem was that he did not have enough support centrally to release the ball to. Flo was trying to be the box-to-box midfielder, but he found himself not anywhere in particular. I would much rather have Flo receiving the ball in the final third, rather than initializing attacks himself.

So in summation, I would argue the skeleton of a decent side is there. However, as I and others pointed out before the season started - the squad is not deep enough, the tactics and substitutions leave a lot to be desired and we don't look dangerous enough up top. Of course, there is not much to worry about because to find ourselves in this position is remarkable, but the frustrating thing is that we can get better (and should be in my opinion) with a few little adjustments and some investment.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:42 am

Quote from Deano

“There will be a lot of people waiting for this to happen and saying they could see it coming."

So that settles it once and for all, Dean Smith does read this message board :D

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:13 pm

Saarland Saddler wrote:So in summation, I would argue the skeleton of a decent side is there. However, as I and others pointed out before the season started - the squad is not deep enough, the tactics and substitutions leave a lot to be desired and we don't look dangerous enough up top. Of course, there is not much to worry about because to find ourselves in this position is remarkable, but the frustrating thing is that we can get better (and should be in my opinion) with a few little adjustments and some investment.

As you say, I think the thing we all recognise is that it won't take much for us to have a good go at getting into the top 10 come the end of the season. I think the perception that people are being too quick to moan about things going wrong is being confused with what is actually just a frustration that we have been masters of our own downfall over the last couple of games.

I'd say that since the start of the season, Smith's tactics and subs have been spot-on, however Saturday can definitely be marked as a blot on the copybook. 4-4-2 didn't really work, and the subs didn't improve things for the better - for whatever reason.

Smith's actions since the end of last season should be considered a success. He's assembled a new side full of footballers who collectively have the ability to play good football and beat teams as a result. Now might be the time to delve into the loan market and make the most of where we are in the league.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:36 pm

Purkiss is obviously our defensive weak link but is anyone else like me impressed with his passing? His 30-40yrd cross-field passes are so sublime and harldy ever fails to find his man.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:57 pm

ihatethecorps wrote:Purkiss is obviously our defensive weak link but is anyone else like me impressed with his passing? His 30-40yrd cross-field passes are so sublime and harldy ever fails to find his man.

He's not 'obviously our defensive weak link' - he just hasn't got the pace to track back when he gets forward and we lose the ball. You're right, his passing is superb, which was even more noticeable when Taundry came on and persisted in punting the ball down the line a la last season. We've moved on since then.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:24 pm

WFC_Rob wrote:
ihatethecorps wrote:Purkiss is obviously our defensive weak link but is anyone else like me impressed with his passing? His 30-40yrd cross-field passes are so sublime and harldy ever fails to find his man.

He's not 'obviously our defensive weak link' - he just hasn't got the pace to track back when he gets forward and we lose the ball. You're right, his passing is superb, which was even more noticeable when Taundry came on and persisted in punting the ball down the line a la last season. We've moved on since then.


Thats very well put as he is a great outlet when we are attacking but leaves us so open to the counter attack.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 6/10/12/

Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:57 pm

Bernie wrote:
I am always prepared to give more time to young forwards, although there does come a time when you have to say enough is enough. If Grigg is still here in two season's time without ever scoring 10 goals a season then I will not be defending him.


I was more making the point thats its hypocritical to say "the people who have a go at grigg are morons" blah blah blah when the same people are waiting for Taundry to mis control a ball, just so they can shout lady garden with utter glee. Sad wasters.

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